The love story was kind of junk, the rest of the story was incoherent, the pacing was mixed, the mechanics were arcane, the last disc was seriously unapproachable and the characters, while having their moments, were not on the whole as memorable. I do not think it'd have been as popular, though it would have been a big deal.
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If FFVIII came out before FFVII, would it be the most beloved Final Fantasy today?
- Thread starter enigmatic_alex44
- Start date
Pretty much this.
It's inferior in almost everything to VII
I'm biased though...
Still, I think VII, VI, IX & X are all way better than VIII
It has less locations, big events, interesting characters, and the final villain is shit.
No it might have killed the franchise, the drawing magic system is super grindy and junctioning magic makes it that most characters are just blank templates defined by how you junction them.
That's leaving out the unlikable characters, the poor story, and so many other problems it's has.
That's leaving out the unlikable characters, the poor story, and so many other problems it's has.
Seriously. "Sorry" humanizes Squall in a way that genuinely makes him relatable (because shrugging off social interaction with an awkward "sorry" is so much better than just saying "whatever" like some edgy tryhard).
And no problem.
Sparrowhawk
Member
As much as I love VIII, VII is definitely the better game.
Sub_Level
wants to fuck an Asian grill.
The gameplay is really not balanced well at all, even by final fantasy standards. The game basically starts Squall off with an omnislash equivalent that he can use an infinite number of times in battle. That's bad enough on its own but then you have Irvine's, Zell's, Quistis' Degenerator,e.t.c. at your disposal. Reusable limit breaks tied to character health was a big mistake. Bosses and other enemies scale to your level which would be fine but it's so easy to avoid leveling up (while simultaneously powering up your characters). And I don't even have to get into all the easy ways of getting tons of magic to boost characters.
It makes it hard to replay the game and have any sort of struggle even if you impose challenges on yourself. I was recently doing a No Item, No Summon, No Limit Break, and No Card Mod playthrough and the game still breezes by. You never have to really incorporate any sort of strategy or use magic. There's no accessories or armor to consider. Some of the more interesting game mechanics, like junctioning elemental magic to your weapon, may as well not even be there because they're not necessary at any level.
As a fan of the game, that's great to see but there is really no doubt that it's one of if not the most divisive title in the series. It's at least as divisive as XII and XIII.
Sub_Level
wants to fuck an Asian grill.
Maybe. Point is it doesn't exactly have universal acclaim.
Funny how the best games in the series are "divisive"
Clearly goes to show the majority of the FF fanbase has no idea what a good game is even when it's right in front of their faces.
This isn't true at all.
ethomaz
Banned
It indeed is... you can make any type of poll and FFVI will came ahead FFVII.
You can say FFVII was the most influential due being the first 3D interaction but most will say to love FFVI over FVII.
And a really small part will say FFVIII is more loved lol
Polls are GameFAQs' bread and butter, and FFVII cleans up every time.
If a poll favors FFVI it's basically guaranteed to being due to it being a filtered audience (such as RPG diehards).
I got autocorrected. Appended .com to the website name.
NipplesAndToes23
Member
Probably, but that would have never happened considering VIII as it was wouldn't exist without VII first. They learned the PS properly from VII which lead to the graphical improvements in VIII. It would've looked different and probably played differently.
You can't honestly be this delusional?
VII is the most beloved and popular. That is fact.
I mean, Imagine if it were true.
How stupid would Square have to be, with all this stuff like Crisis Core, Dirge of Cerberus, Advent Children and now the remake of FFVII? Think of all that FFVI money they'd be leaving on the table instead.
enigmatic_alex44
Whenever a game uses "middleware," I expect mediocrity. Just see how poor TLOU looks.
FFVI isn't even top 3 in popularity, like what am I even reading on this page? VII like you mentioned has the remake and tons of spinoffs (and highest sales). X is probably 2nd most popular due to sales and multiple HD remasters.
If people want to come for FFVIII's characters, then look at the huge, bloated, useless cast of FFVI. Besides Terra, Celes and Locke, who in that game even matters? Even Square-Enix doesn't care all that much about VI, just look at the disrespectful, tragic mobile port with the ugly new sprites they put out 😂
On GAF and other RPG forums FFVI is viewed as the better game and hence more popular. As far as the mass market is concerned they are not in the same league. Kind of surprising to see the comments from Thomaz when he is well versed on salesGAF.
That still wouldn't fix the problems with the characterization, writing, and story. These are serious enough to forever keep it from being as well received as Final Fantasy VII. I first played the game really wanting to love it. But it never fully clicked because there were too many weak decisions made throughout. Looking back, I think that the only main cast character I like any more is Selphie, and that's just because her interest in trains and her inclination towards blowing things up is at least amusing.
It wasn't well executed but i'd hardly say unbelievable. Do you remember every child you spent time with at 3-4 years old? I certainly don't and that's without the GF stuff. There is a reason why they have all been chosen for the mission and come together later in life. Its not coincidence.
That wasn't the big reveal in VIII anyway.
Pretty much.
A lot of people missed the point of the reveal. I agree it's definitely not well executed but the entire reveal is showing who the two big people that are orchestrating the events throughout the game. The GF reveal is a minor point about suppressing memories in exchange for power and how it directly affected Squall's growth process.
This. For me, the divide between these two are in their casts; VIII's is uninspired.
Every previous entry had interesting and varied party members. Different ages, different ethnicities, with different stories to tell and jobs to define them, from kings to gamblers to enslaved magical soldiers. And then VIII comes along and gives us an entire party of melodramatic teenage students who all more or less share the same ridiculous backstory, led by an unlikable pouty face and his batshit insane love interest.
VII had actual adults, with an intense rivalry in Cloud and Sephiroth. It's two lead ladies were both relatable and intriguing and actually friends despite their mutual interest in the Cloud. Then flesh it all out with a well-developed supporting cast and a slew of entertaining villains, and VII's crew can't be beat. They are just that iconic.
davidnolan13
Member
Oh God I hate 8 so much. It's dull. 92 hours of dull and where the fuck did ultimecia come from did I fall asleep? That ending is so dull to. The characters are dull. ahh fuck 8.
9 on the other hand is good. On replays maybe just edging out 7. Vivi is awesome.
9 on the other hand is good. On replays maybe just edging out 7. Vivi is awesome.
I don't think people missed the point of the reveal.
The problem is that they tried to make the fact using GF wipe your memories as a minor point when the most logical thing is to make it a far major point. If it was taken seriously by the team and tried to come with a real answer about their use, it would'nt have that much backlash.
And the fact the individual character past was common in that orpheage an so the fact that they are also "minor points" are the precise problem in FFVIII for a lot of people. (Including me... As i'm sure you would have guessed)
........ Well, if it's not that, what was it ? I mean during that moment they were a lot of reveal from the far-fetched but plausible
the whole academy is here in order to fight Edea/Ultimercia if my memories serves right
everyone come from the same orphanage and have memories wiped by GF
I clearly wonder what was the big reveal you mention if it's not that...
Yes ! Those fools even like FFVI instead of FFVIII ! I cant understand such logic !
But that's my point.
Internet messageboards are a missrepresentation of reality and an echo chamber today. Imagine what they were in 1998. There was no real controversy about FFVIII outside of a few people making noise in a place nobody else knew.
My introduction to the series was the release of Final Fantasy VIII (I'd never even seen VII at the time), so even with the high nostalgia I have for this game, I doubt it'd have been the most beloved.
Personally, it just wasn't fun to play. I never liked the system where you draw 100 of each magic (otherwise you're just limiting yourself), and it's so easy to get magic from cards which breaks the game. The story was messed up by its awful pacing, most of the characters fell flat and final dungeon gimmicks are the worst. It took me about 60 hours to finish.
Only 4 years ago I finished Final Fantasy VII. If it was released after VIII, I'm sure it'd have be considered a return to form for the series. The intro alone hooks you right into the story and it keeps the pace up for most of the game, whereas Final Fantasy VIII could not wait to slow itself to a crawl. They're very different games.
With this question, I wonder if Final Fantasy II would've been higher regarded if it was released before Final Fantasy. I think it's better than the original in every way but was a little too different in how you strengthen yourself.
Personally, it just wasn't fun to play. I never liked the system where you draw 100 of each magic (otherwise you're just limiting yourself), and it's so easy to get magic from cards which breaks the game. The story was messed up by its awful pacing, most of the characters fell flat and final dungeon gimmicks are the worst. It took me about 60 hours to finish.
Only 4 years ago I finished Final Fantasy VII. If it was released after VIII, I'm sure it'd have be considered a return to form for the series. The intro alone hooks you right into the story and it keeps the pace up for most of the game, whereas Final Fantasy VIII could not wait to slow itself to a crawl. They're very different games.
With this question, I wonder if Final Fantasy II would've been higher regarded if it was released before Final Fantasy. I think it's better than the original in every way but was a little too different in how you strengthen yourself.
BudokaiMR2
Member
I hated VIII because the convoluted systems just seemed like a ton of work.
Also, one of the reasons why I have always liked recent FFs over things like DQ is because it has always been flashier.
I like casters in FF games. I like the effects they use for the games. The awesome effects and overall stylish battles was one of the only parts of FFXIII I liked.
In FFVIII I always felt like I was being penalized for actually using magic thanks to the draw system.
Fuck FFVIII.
Also, one of the reasons why I have always liked recent FFs over things like DQ is because it has always been flashier.
I like casters in FF games. I like the effects they use for the games. The awesome effects and overall stylish battles was one of the only parts of FFXIII I liked.
In FFVIII I always felt like I was being penalized for actually using magic thanks to the draw system.
Fuck FFVIII.
Your not wrong about the plot points, but they are not revealed in the GF wiped my memories scene. The only thing they realise at that point is that they knew each other as children and also knew Edea. They then decide that regardless of that, they have to push on and fight. Its not a huge plot point by itself, but it does play into the next big plot reveal.
If someone decided to switch off at that point, they wouldn't know why Garden was built, or even
that Ultimecia exists and can possess people
They are brought together by Cid because of the time loop, those 6 people always fought Ultimecia, and Squall then met a young Edea to tell her about Garden, which made her and Cid start it. To continue that loop, Cid chooses them for the mission with Squall as leader because that is what has to happen.
For me the big reveals happen in Esthar, the reveals about Adel, the disruption of radio waves and all that.
I actually liked the drawing/junction system. It gets even better once you figure out you don't need to draw most spells and know what skills to get to mod magic as it is needed. A lot of the items you need to refine can also best be gotten through Triple Triad with card mod, a plus in itself.
As a result, the only grinding you needed to do was to level up GF skills. Then you can just slap on Enc-None when you need to backtrack for whatever reason.
As a result, the only grinding you needed to do was to level up GF skills. Then you can just slap on Enc-None when you need to backtrack for whatever reason.
BocoDragon
or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
I love FFVIII, but I don't think so.
Somehow, FFVII captured the zeitgeist of its era in a way that no other FF in its era did.
It was very Japanese and "anime" at a time when that was red-hot underground cool emerging into the mainstream. This was a time when Cloud merely having spikey hair was symbolic of DBZ and other "wild" versions of heroism most westerners had never seen (utterly tired within a few years)
It was adding modern+sci-fi elements to RPGs when it seemed like they were emerging from this classical fantasy motif into maybe being the dominant storytelling art form of videogames (a short lived dream, to be sure).
It was "mature" in a way that the teenage-dominated gaming scene was eating up. The fact that Barret swore or that Cloud went to a brothel and crossdressed was extremely edgy for its day, and "un-videogame" for what games meant at the time. It tantalized more teenagers with these elements, in a way that can't really be understood in the rearview mirror of history.
The fact that it was about celebrating eco-terrorism and fighting the man spoke to a heroism unsanctioned by the mainstream. This was the voice of a generation promoted via word of mouth. It wasn't pushed from on high like a blockbuster movie (MTV ads aside). It felt like "our thing"... a phenomenon that more bubbled up from the underground than something pushed by mass media.
FFVII is not my favourite game. I was one of those "it's not as good as VI, maaaan" people immediately after release. But if I really take stock of the era, its particular appeal was a phenomenon that could have only existed in 1997. FFVIII? It wouldn't have done that.
Somehow, FFVII captured the zeitgeist of its era in a way that no other FF in its era did.
It was very Japanese and "anime" at a time when that was red-hot underground cool emerging into the mainstream. This was a time when Cloud merely having spikey hair was symbolic of DBZ and other "wild" versions of heroism most westerners had never seen (utterly tired within a few years)
It was adding modern+sci-fi elements to RPGs when it seemed like they were emerging from this classical fantasy motif into maybe being the dominant storytelling art form of videogames (a short lived dream, to be sure).
It was "mature" in a way that the teenage-dominated gaming scene was eating up. The fact that Barret swore or that Cloud went to a brothel and crossdressed was extremely edgy for its day, and "un-videogame" for what games meant at the time. It tantalized more teenagers with these elements, in a way that can't really be understood in the rearview mirror of history.
The fact that it was about celebrating eco-terrorism and fighting the man spoke to a heroism unsanctioned by the mainstream. This was the voice of a generation promoted via word of mouth. It wasn't pushed from on high like a blockbuster movie (MTV ads aside). It felt like "our thing"... a phenomenon that more bubbled up from the underground than something pushed by mass media.
FFVII is not my favourite game. I was one of those "it's not as good as VI, maaaan" people immediately after release. But if I really take stock of the era, its particular appeal was a phenomenon that could have only existed in 1997. FFVIII? It wouldn't have done that.
butman
Member
Want it or not is an irrefutable truth. just look at my avatar
Hum... Ok fair point, I must have remembered wrong some things.
Art direction-wise and musically, Square/SE has been consistently at the top of the game since the SNES era. (IMO of course).
Muffdraul
Member
I don't have to imagine, I was there. I've been online since summer 1994. I've been going to dedicated FF message boards since I first discovered The Unofficial Squaresoft Homepage in 1996 when I was scouring for FFVII JP info the minute after I heard it had been officially announced. By the time FFVIII came out I was a regular at the rpgamer.com boards, The GIA forums, squarefan.net, among others. I knew exactly what went on in the FF fanbase I'd been a part of since FFVI in fall '94.
You're perfectly free to dismiss fan discussion on message boards as "echo chamber" noise. But it wasn't really any different from what happened with MGS2 and GTA4; virtually universal critical acclaim and high review scores across the board, but an extremely divided fanbase with a sizable chunk claiming the games were bitterly disappointing pieces of shit. I take it you dismiss those two cases as well.
When it happened with FFVII, the nay-sayers were a fraction of the tiny "old school" cult fanbase vs. the gargantuan newbie fanbase. You're right, it was pretty much the same thing, but waaaaay out of balance. The newbies easily shouted down the nay-saying old schoolers. With FFVIII, the nay-sayers were relatively high in number and got a lot more traction.
Wow, dude. You might as well have just posted "I'm so young I wasn't even around when FFVIII came out, but I'm going to pretend I know what I'm talking about." Revisionist history... fuck off.
Dr. Buni
Member
It is more engaging because FF7 is far more popular and well known than FF8. Also, there is no Cloud/Tifa, it was Cloud/Aerith =P
I think Squall/Rinoa was more interesting than Cloud/Aerith, BUT if we are talking about love stories in FF in general, I'd have to pick Zidane/Garnet as my favorite.
NathanDiego
Member
Best answer.
Foldedpencil
Banned
Just compare the motivations of the motley crew in FFVII to those of FFVIII though, I mean there is a scene early on when you confront Rufus and he comments on the strange mix of people confronting him. This is continued on with later party additions such as Yuffie's desire to gather strong Materia, or Vincent's quest for revenge/redemption. You even have a party member betray you, and then realign their motivations with those of the group. The villians in the game are equally nuanced in motivation with a hate triangle forming between your party, Shinra, and Sephiroth. Sometimes your are working with Shinra/Turks against Sephiroth, and sometimes competing with them. The entire organization of the plot is nuanced and peppered with surprising character developments.
The orphanage reveal destroyed any illusion of this in FFVIII for me. Suddenly, we are not a group of individuals working to a common goal, but we are actually some kind of forgotten siblings predestined to undertake a certain mission. What are the chances that I wouldn't have inspired anyone else to join the cause that wasn't a part of this orphanage, or that I simply hadn't happened to have teamed up with them later? Maybe the game addressed these issues in the plot after I stopped playing, but the point is, they lost me right then and there by shattering the sense of interpersonal nuance that FFVII excelled at.
I understand what you liked so much about VII in terms of character motivations etc. I like that about it too. But VIII was going for something very different, for me it isn't any less effective.
In VII we have a motley crew with a common enemy coming together to defeat it. In VIII its about fate, and the desire to escape it. This is the case with the main cast and the villain (who brings about her own demise by going through with her plan). Its also about failing to cope with loss, and developing an understanding that working with others doesn't equal weakness. They are just exploring different themes, and different human emotions. The series tends to follow one of these paths with each entry, its either a varied band of misfits or people brought together by something bigger than themselves. I enjoy both.
There are lots of people working with the cast in VIII, they don't become party members but the whole of Garden is working to defeat Galbadia/Ultimecia. Its really a team effort.
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