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[ForsakenLotus]

Wait, the romance between Squall and Rinoa is listed as a plus? As is the cast?

I'm a huge Final Fantasy fan and there is this chasm between people who love FFVIII (for reasons like this) that I don't think I can ever understand.

 

[Cert.in.Death]

I'm gonna go with no. 7 is better than 8 in most every way in my mind, except for Triple Triad.

 

[Relaxed Muscle]

Except that didn't happen? What exactly proof that?

 

[Eylos]

Cloud is literally a 'I'm an ex soldier with a dark past that I don't rememberrrrrrrrrr'

It's so cliche and generic. Squalls story is one of being forced into a position of leadership when he's practically a kid, and having to deal with that.

Squalls story is far more humanized and far more emotional.

well isn't ff7 one of the origins of this trope? soldier with amnesia with a dark past?

also they repeated the thing with squall, soldier with amnesia and dark past,

and both are leaders of the group at young age

 

[Shoeless]

If FFVII retained its graphical quality and art direction, and FFVIII also retained its graphical quality, I think it would be inevitable that FFVIII would be considered a landmark event.

A lot of FFVII's appeal was the whole FMV/Pre-rendered cut-scenes and environments thing it had going for it from a technology perspective. We just hadn't seen anything like that on a console at that time.

I think if you had a completely ignorant audience that knew nothing about FFVIII and were going from the incredible promise of FFVI straight into the CG opening of FFVIII with that choir, those graphics and that cinematic direction, the sheer technology virtuosity of the game would probably overwhelm many gamers right from the get-go on sheer "wow factor" alone.

If FFVII came afterwards, people would obviously argue about whether it had a better story. But FFVII's place in gaming history is as much about being in the right time at the right place as it is about the quality of the story, or the depth of its RPG systems and mechanics. FFVIII would drop jaws and blind many people to its mechanical or design problems simply by being so unlike anything else available at the time.

 

[jstripes]

Oh hell naw. VII is ugly as hell.

I wouldn't say FFVII is "ugly", but I would say it's aged terribly. It was Square's first "3D" RPG, so there was a lot of trial and error.

Except that didn't happen? What exactly proof that?

Shows how much I remember about that game. But it fits perfectly with how I remember it.

Xenogears was more entertaining than FFVIII.

 

[Alcahest]

FF7 is only worshipped by gamers who first experienced FF with it, and it's understandable.

For those into the series since the SNES or NES days, the release order of VIII versus VII hardly makes any difference I'm sure.

 

[ThatStupidLion]

no

 

[jstripes]

FF7 is only worshipped by gamers who first experienced FF with it, and it's understandable.

For those into the series since the SNES or NES days, the release order of VIII versus VII hardly makes any difference I'm sure.

As someone who was waiting outside my local game shop the morning of FFVI's release, fuming that the owner was late, I can tell you that's nonsense.

 

[Voras]

I don't think it would be that clear cut, part of the reason Final Fantasy VII was so revered is because of what a huge leap forward it was at the time, but a large part of it was the story and characters that people fell in love with. Final Fantasy VIII has a solid fanbase, and I personally really enjoyed it, and it probably would have been bigger if it had been first but I don't think it would have been as big as VII even if it had come first. Final Fantasy VIII is just a much different kind of story.

 

[PK Gaming]

Obviously fake, but the real scene is pretty bad too. A culmination of why the romance between Squall and Rinoa didn't work.

 

[Chastten]

As someone who actually played VIII before VII, I'd say so.

VIII is by no means perfect but I really enjoyed what I played about it. Going back to VII a year or so later felt like a huge downgrade to me. And I'm not just talking about the graphics, but everything feels off. I'm also not feeling the story or characters of VII. They go for a mixture of serious and comic and it never really did anything for me.

Mind you, there were far better RPG's at the time then either of these.

 

[Ferr986]

Cloud is literally a 'I'm an ex soldier with a dark past that I don't rememberrrrrrrrrr'

It's so cliche and generic. Squalls story is one of being forced into a position of leadership when he's practically a kid, and having to deal with that.

Squalls story is far more humanized and far more emotional.

Squall is literally "I hate everyone I don't need friends 'm better alone and more emo stuff!!!"

Cloud story is one of having your dreams and aspirations not coming true (instead of what games usually told you). and having to cope with that deception on you and your childhood friend who was your inspiration to do that.

Cloud story is far more humanized and far more emotional.

Spoiler

both you and me simplified Cloud and Squall's role

 

[MogCakes]

I'd say it didn't actually work at all, people liked the game in spite of the tone deaf rapid fire tonal shifts and weird nonsense that only worked because the characters barely resembled actual human beings in 3D graphics.

That is almost entirely the reason the camp works, and it was a fantastic way to make the models animated, for example looking at Cloud's blocky-ass polygons doing squats for a mini-game. It's ridiculous and funny, and fun, and I would say most of it fits into the narrative quite well. I utterly disagree that it is simple tone-deaf insertions of jokes. The remake will have an entirely different tone just from aesthetics, but I hope they fit some wackiness into it as well. It was the funny moments that stood out most to me in bringing the cast to life.

 

[Inuhanyou]

Cloud is literally a 'I'm an ex soldier with a dark past that I don't rememberrrrrrrrrr'

It's so cliche and generic. Squalls story is one of being forced into a position of leadership when he's practically a kid, and having to deal with that.

Squalls story is far more humanized and far more emotional.

Have you even played the game?

Spoiler

He's not even a soldier to begin with the whole point of the twist is that all of that stuff was just made up and confused with Zack's experiences because he got mind fucked

That is almost entirely the reason the camp works, and it was a fantastic way to make the models animated, for example looking at Cloud's blocky-ass polygons doing squats for a mini-game. It's ridiculous and funny, and fun, and I would say most of it fits into the narrative quite well. I utterly disagree that it is simple tone-deaf insertions of jokes. The remake will have an entirely different tone just from aesthetics, but I hope they fit some wackiness into it as well. It was the funny moments that stood out most to me in bringing the cast to life.

I'm sure there will be some lighthearted moments inserted into the plot just so its not all gravitas. But the overall plot of the game, even back then, would have dictated that the story be a lot more heavy than it was portrayed in the original because of a lot of the subject matter involved by default.

But as a product of the time period with the type of style and 3D rendering they could do, it made sense to have a lot of the game look and act in a hokey manner.

 

[Ruff]

Cloud is literally a 'I'm an ex soldier with a dark past that I don't rememberrrrrrrrrr'

It's so cliche and generic. Squalls story is one of being forced into a position of leadership when he's practically a kid, and having to deal with that.

Squalls story is far more humanized and far more emotional.

Lmao what. As opposed to Squall who is a SeeD soldier with, as it turned out, a past they can't remember because reasons?

Besides, Cloud DOES remember his past, only problem is that most of his immedaite past that fuels his bravado and attitude at the beginning is an illusion caused by a broken mind, a near death experience mixed with unfulfilled hopes and goals, admiration for a far superior friend (who you see brutally executed just a few feet over after trying to protect you let's not forget) and a little dose of jenova cells. His journey to realizing who he actually was is pretty damn humanizing.

 

[etking]

FF8 is my favorite FF too.

 

[BibiMaghoo]

No, I don't think so. There are many reasons 7 is so appraised. Many more still why 8 is viewed as a worse game. Though I love both, 7 has much more going for it.

 

[Ferr986]

Lmao what. As opposed to Squall who is a SeeD soldier with, as it turned out, a past they can't remember because reasons?

Besides, Cloud DOES remember his past, only problem is that his past is an illusion caused by a broken mind mixed with admiration for a far superior friend and a little dose of jenova cells. His journey to realizing who he actually was is pretty damn humanizing.

And to be fair almost all of his childhood past is true too, it's just his traumatic experience as a soldier that got mindfucked

Spoiler

(both his failure to be a SOLDIER, the fear of Tifa's deception because of that, Sephirot, Zack's death and Jenova cells).

 

[Meliora]

Yes I think so OP.

 

[MogCakes]

Cloud is literally a 'I'm an ex soldier with a dark past that I don't rememberrrrrrrrrr'

Actually, Cloud was an entirely normal if socially awkward kid who tried to follow his dream of becoming a soldier to impress the girl he liked and failed, and the only thing that makes him a special snowflake is he fucked Sephiroth over at the most inopportune time. Besides Vaan, he is the most normal FF protagonist in the series.

But as a product of the time period with the type of style and 3D rendering they could do, it made sense to have a lot of the game look and act in a hokey manner.

That's what brings the camp and the gloom together and makes them work. It definitely would not have worked well if they looked more realistic like VIII's cast. That's the beauty of it, to me, and why VII is so unique in what it brings to the table.

That isn't a diss on VIII because I think it has its own style and appeal, but VII was an apex in videogame history.*

*in being able to pull off a goofy-yet-brooding RPG in a compelling way with at the time mind-blowing graphics on a console.

 

[butman]

YES.
And we had seen this fight running in Unreal Engine 4 at E3 2015 (DAMN!)

 

[yunbuns]

YES.
And we had seen this fight running in Unreal Engine 4 at E3 2015 (DAMN!)

That would've been glorious. I would take a VIII or IX remake over VII any day tbh.

 

[Give War A Chance]

Not for me.

I don't like/have no feeling towards most of the FFVIII characters, though somehow I still enjoy the story.

Gameplay I didn't dig too much. Just BOOST through every encounter.

I really liked the Junction system though.

...

I have a weird relationship with FFVIII.

 

[ShinMaruku]

FF 8 was the best. It even predicted that George W Bush would be a bell end.

Spoiler

Vinzer Deling looks just like Bush

 

[Inuhanyou]

That's what brings the camp and the gloom together and makes them work. It definitely would not have worked well if they looked more realistic like VIII's cast. That's the beauty of it, to me, and why VII is so unique in what it brings to the table.

That isn't a diss on VIII because I think it has its own style and appeal, but VII was an apex in videogame history.*

*in being able to pull off a goofy-yet-brooding RPG in a compelling way with at the time mind-blowing graphics on a console.

That's true, and now that its being brought into the modern era, completely out of that time period in an era where writing is on a whole other level and being able to render game worlds in real time, on the level of Advent Children is a thing, i wonder how it will do?

 

[Shadow_FFVI]

I picked up 8 on the PSN store on a whim to play it for the first time.

2 hours in and what the fuck is this junction system shit?! I swear not even pre-cal was this hard to pick up. Don't even know if I'll continue.

While FF VII is my favorite game of all time and I think VIII is well below it and FF IX in terms of, hmm, well... everything, I still think VIII is a great game worth playing.

 

[MogCakes]

i wonder how it will do?

I've learned to keep my expectations in check with modern SE.

 

[Adam_Vania]

That's true, and now that its being brought into the modern era, completely out of that time period in an era where writing and being able to render game worlds in real time, on the level of Advent Children is a thing, i wonder how it will do?

i think it will do great. there is an overabundance of ideas in FVII, plenty of stuff to work from, and imo games have not especially "matured" or "grown up" past FVII. the more fantastical and whimsical elements that charmed people back then still have the potential to charm, and the higher production quality can result in really turning up the high drama sequences.

but i would take a FVII remake over FVIII any day. FVII's plot felt well paced, and made me feel like i was getting to know the characters more. FVIII's was fine but really felt more slight, like I was just watching characters living in the world and not necessarily struggling against it. plus the whole time-jumping thing was a bit confusing imo, or if not confusing then at least less elegant than the very cool and kind of creepy FVII flashbacks.

 

[FoxSpirit]

Nah, other the graphics and maybe the ost (tastes and all that jazz) 7 is the better game imo:
-better story & characters
-funner to play
-I would say more fleshed out world

Helps its story doesn't have time shenanigans and a bad story

Doesn't help that we have know idea what FFVIII would have been like if it came out when FF7 was supposed to come and all the changes it would have.

It also had odd, quirky and crazy stuff. FFVIII was way too much teenage romance drama and forgot to add zanyness. Silly was always part of the old JRPG DNA.

 

[Alcahest]

As someone who was waiting outside my local game shop the morning of FFVI's release, fuming that the owner was late, I can tell you that's nonsense.

I don't see how that makes my statement nonsense though.

 

[Taruranto]

well isn't ff7 one of the origins of this trope? soldier with amnesia with a dark past?

also they repeated the thing with squall, soldier with amnesia and dark past,

and both are leaders of the group at young age

I know he doesn't look like it, but Cloud is actually 21, that's ancient by JRPG standards.

 

[Wazzy]

I feel like people aren't understanding the question itself and instead are taking it as everyone claiming that VIII is the better game(IMO it is but I understand why others think differently) and only isn't viewed that way because VII came first. It's actually more about how popular one game would be if it had instead been the one to release first. Unfortunately we probably wouldn't have gotten VIII without VII because the graphic jump was even bigger in VIII but I do fully believe had circumstances somehow allowed VIII first it would have been the most popular.

It was ranked #75 of RPGs here. http://m.neogaf.com/showthread.php?t=1157480 Considering that Final Fantasy is much more well known than the games around it on that list and more likely to have been played, it's really damning. Most people that played it do not like it.

Sales mean nothing. I bought FF8. Doesn't mean I liked it.

Gaming reviews mean nothing. It feels like graphics usually account for 80% of a game review. Best of all games like Earthbound and Nier got shit over for having bad graphics. Even FF13 had scores in the 80s just because of how it looked.

Bwhahahahahahah

You do realize user ratings are extremely positive as well, right? Not only that but VIII has ranked 47 previously in GAF's RPG list and one year it being different doesn't change the quality of the game. It's still considered an essential RPG and you're proving that by linking the thread.

XIII may not deserve that high of rating but the games battle system, graphics and music were pretty good and that's enough to still recommend people play it.

Man with the Machine Gun.

Of course! I even think Don't Be Afraid is incredibly memorable as is Blue Fields.

It also had odd, quirky and crazy stuff. FFVIII was way too much teenage romance drama and forgot to add zanyness. Silly was always part of the old JRPG DNA.

VIII has plenty of weird and hilarious stuff. We even had a thread recently because people just discovered the Devour ability and what happens when you use it.

 

[Mitchture420]

ahahaha im sorry dude i liked ff8 too but 7 is just miles better. did you just say their soundtracks are tied. LOL what does ff8 have to stand against the likes of Anxious Heart and Shinra Corporation

 

[Muffdraul]

well isn't ff7 one of the origins of this trope? soldier with amnesia with a dark past?

also they repeated the thing with squall, soldier with amnesia and dark past,

and both are leaders of the group at young age

FFVI's Terra did it before Cloud. Amnesia was a big plot point in FFV too. Possibly in earlier FFs as well, I don't have those committed to memory.

 

[yunbuns]

It also had odd, quirky and crazy stuff. FFVIII was way too much teenage romance drama and forgot to add zanyness. Silly was always part of the old JRPG DNA.

Rinoa literally shoots her dog at people.

 

[Inuhanyou]

I've learned to keep my expectations in check with modern SE.

I don't think we've seen enough of modern SE to draw that conclusion IMO for major games. We've seen what they can do with FF14 ARR, which by all intents and purposes was great. FF15 is coming soon and generally speaking, they only had one team working on FF13 trilogy for like 5 years.

 

[Lothar]

Bwhahahahahahah

You do realize user ratings are extremely positive as well, right? Not only that but VIII has ranked 47 previously in GAF's RPG list and one year it being different doesn't change the quality of the game. It's still considered an essential RPG and you're proving that by linking the thread.

Not considered an essential RPG by many since it only got #75 with how well known as it is. I suppose people have learned their mistake since last year.

XIII may not deserve that high of rating but the games battle system, graphics and music were pretty good and that's enough to still recommend people play it.

When half the game was cutscenes and the world consists of walking in a straight line, it's not enough to say it has good battle system, graphics, and music.

 

[OrionX]

Rinoa literally shoots her dog at people.

Girl's got some serious upper body strength.

 

[MogCakes]

I don't think we've seen enough of modern SE to draw that conclusion IMO for major games. We've seen what they can do with FF14 ARR, which by all intents and purposes was great. FF15 is coming soon and generally speaking, they only had one team working on FF13 trilogy for like 5 years.

ARR is amazing, my wariness is with the company's script writers and directors. XIII had great potential but it was marred by terrible direction choices and bad dialogue (somehow despite that I love the games anyway), and while I am one of the most hyped about XV the dialogue seems off and I am wary of the direction it's taking with the prospect of large expanses of nothing much to do. Type-0 turned out to be a dud in the character development department as well.

 

[Wazzy]

Not considered an essential RPG by many since it only got #75 with how well known as it is. I suppose people have learned their mistake since last year.

I guess World Of Warcraft, Kingdom Hearts I & II, Lost Odyssey, Ni no Kuni, Radiant Historia, SMT, System Shock 2, Tales of Syphonia and Vagrant Story aren't worth playing then. You know, because they ranked so low right?

Also

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1111043

and it's Soundtrack

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1113034

 

[anaron]

Not considered an essential RPG by many since it only got #75 with how well known as it is. I suppose people have learned their mistake since last year.



When half the game was cutscenes and the world consists of walking in a straight line, it's not enough to say it has good battle system, graphics, and music.

lol, do you use lists to determine your opinion?

 

[Morfeo]

8 and 7 are both pretty mediocre imo, so there is no doubt in my mind that 8 would be the beloved one if it was the first that came with fmvs and 3d graphics.

 

[Inuhanyou]

ARR is amazing, my wariness is with the company's script writers and directors. XIII had great potential but it was marred by terrible direction choices and bad dialogue (somehow despite that I love the games anyway), and while I am one of the most hyped about XV the dialogue seems off and I am wary of the direction it's taking with the prospect of large expanses of nothing much to do. Type-0 turned out to be a dud in the character development department as well.

Well, i blame Toriyama for how 13 trilogy turned out, it seemed like they didn't really have a plan at all.

As for Type 0...i can't disagree, but i really enjoyed Crisis Core and so i'm not expecting much from FF15 considering the development issues and changes in staff over the years, as long as its competent...

FF7R though, i think will be the true test, because its being made by the same guys who generally speaking, were responsible for a lot of my favorite FF's, as well as the guys who were essentially taken off of Versus with that initial premise i was so fond of. I've essentially reinstated most of my Versus hype onto that game, and am not basing its level of success on how close it can emulate the original game.

 

[Lothar]

I guess World Of Warcraft, Kingdom Hearts I & II, Lost Odyssey, Ni no Kuni, Radiant Historia, SMT, System Shock 2, Tales of Syphonia and Vagrant Story aren't worth playing then. You know, because they ranked so low right?

Also

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1111043

and it's Soundtrack

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1113034

Why are you not reading the post you're quoting? I've already responded to this. Many of those games are nowhere near as well known as FF8. You think people have played Lost Odyssey as much as they've played FF8?

What's the point of linking to last year's rankings? People have obviously changed their minds.

Vagrant Story is worse than FF8, by the way.

 

[Staccat0]

80% of why people loved FF VII was just Cloud's hair and sword.

Meanwhile gun blades are stupid AF

 

[Dante_727]

FF 8 is GOAT.
Way better than FF7

Imo ofc

 

[joecanada]

No, 8 sucked major balls. But that is just my opinion.

First post strike again lol. I went all the way to the end and just quit, just couldn't care about that story at all.

 

[Wazzy]

Why are you not reading the post you're quoting? I've already responded to this. Many of those games are nowhere near as well known as FF8. You think people have played Lost Odyssey as much as they've played FF8?

What's the point of linking to last year's rankings? People have obviously changed their minds.

Vagrant Story is worse than FF8, by the way.

Are YOU reading the post you just quoted? WoW isn't well known? Kingdom Hearts isn't well known? Tales of Syphonia isn't well known?

That ranking is GAF's official. It's not a yearly system, only essential RPG's is. You're wrong about VIII. Let go and move on.

 

[Asiratlan]

I honestly prefer FF VII Characters to FF VIII. After playing previous 7 games, Final Fantasy 8 feels way too easy with the broken limit breaks. Also FF7 with the FF8 technical upgrades they made for FF VIII would just have it look a lot better than the actual FF7.