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As people said before, if FFVII came after VIII it would've been an apology. I say this even as I'm not the hugest fan of FFVII, I think Tactics, VI, XII and IV are better.

The sole reason FFVIII isn't the worst mainline Final Fantasy is because they created FFXIII.

Girl's got some serious upper body strength.

She trained with Ash Ketchum.

 

[Omnistalgic]

I can't believe people:

a) prefer squall to cloud. Squall is the most incredibly trope-y character out there. Cloud is light years more interesting.
b) prefer the nonsense time travel plot (TIME COMPRESSION!!! **Evil Laugh**)
c) prefer the game system (junction is extremely Grindy and low depth. Materia is one of the most elegant and versatile skill systems of all time.)
d) think any FF romance is "incredible." Especially Squal-Rinoa which puts cliche and uninteresting in a taciturn emo box tied up with a cheesy bow.
e) think that people like 7 because it came first. 7 is the clearly better game in depth, in plot, in characters, in almost all aspects.

sometimes I think FF8 was some spectacular game I just didn't understand because I played it when I was 15. Then I'm welcomed back to reality, this is exactly how I felt when playing it.

In fact I remember how underwhelming it was coming from FF7 and I basically forced myself to finish it.

This thread is crazy...FF8 is just not that good. Keep thinking FF7 is only good because it was a Cg marvel if you guys want to I guess. But it's a reason FF7 is being remade and not FF8, and FF6 is still considered one of the best stories.

 

[antitrop]

The sole reason FFVIII isn't the worst mainline Final Fantasy is because they created FFXIII.

II is the worst. It should have stayed in Japan.

II's mess of a battle system is worse than any Drawing, Junctioning, or Level Scaling.

 

[Maintenance]

II is the worst. It should have stayed in Japan.

II's mess of a battle system is worse than any Drawing, Junctioning, or Level Scaling.

Nah, the battle system is archaic but I don't hate it.

 

[A Link to the Past]

I think that VIII would have been more well-received to the new audience of FF fans, and VII would be viewed in a relatively worse light, as even if you consider it good, it benefited from being many players' first RPGs.

 

[Inuhanyou]

I think that VIII would have been more well-received to the new audience of FF fans, and VII would be viewed in a relatively worse light, as even if you consider it good, it benefited from being many players' first RPGs.

Alot of what made FF7 approachable to people was the straightforward turn based combat and accessible nature of it. Putting FF8 in its place with all those confusing restrictions in place would have turned off a lot of people who went into it looking for a more casual experience IMO.

It would be like replacing FF7 with Resonance of Fate

 

[DarkConfidant]

Ooh! This week's FF? vs FF8 thread!

*grabs popcorn*

 

[antitrop]

Ooh! This week's FF? vs FF8 thread!

*grabs popcorn*

Transcending history and the world, a tale of souls and swords, eternally retold

 

[Inuhanyou]

Transcending history and the world, a tale of souls and swords, eternally retold

 

[Jennipeg]

Although VIII is my personal favorite, I still think that VII is a technically "better" game. So no. I think VII would still be considered to be the better game.

Same here, VIII has undeniable issues, but I love it. I played it after VII but I still prefer VIII personally.

I cannot believe I have read posts saying VIII's music is overrated, is this real life?

 

[Ganondorfo]

I forgot it has been 3 weeks since the last thread ritual of "Its time to bash Final Fantasy 8 again, because making fun of 8 never gets old"

We get it, Final Fantasy VIII wasnt as cool as generic jrpg mc Cloud and generic jrpg looking villain Sephiroth.

Do we need monthly repeated discussions how FF8 failed?

 

[Silvawuff]

I think they're both good, just for different reasons. I think the real question on the table here is "would the reception of VIII have been better if it were first compared to VII?"

It's a good question to think about since people will enjoy a game for different reasons and will have a different experience than someone else -- I never finished VIII but I played VII multiple times and clocked 100+ hours on it back then.

Game design and appeal is a complex subject with no straight answer.

 

[yunbuns]

This thread is crazy...FF8 is just not that good.

People having different opinions than you isn't really a crazy concept. Not everyone liked or cared about VII.

 

[chemicals]

No. I know FF8 gets a lot of love here on gaf, but it is not even close to being as good as 7 or 9. FF7 was so much more accessible for new RPG gamers, also.

 

[SoundPulse]

The sole reason FFVIII isn't the worst mainline Final Fantasy is because they created FFXIII.

I mean, I don't like VIII, but I wouldn't go that far.

FFII exists, after all.

 

[brau]

Transcending history and the world, a tale of souls and swords, eternally retold

At least this is a better story than XIII or X1 and 2 together.

 

[N7.Angel]

A big Nope, FF8 is good but that's it, FF7 was better in almost everything.

 

[jasminlovesyoux]

Ffvii is a TON of people's favorite because it was their first. If ffviii were in its place, all those PlayStation owners would've had their proverbial jrpg cherries popped with viii, and yes it would be that alternate timelines favorite.

 

[Spirit of Jazz]

I'm pretty sure if VIII was the first released 3D FF then the series wouldn't have gone past VII. If there's a vocal minority amongst FF fans it's those acting like VIII wasn't a hot mess.

 

[MikeE21286]

I think so. The fact that 8 had life sized characters was a big thing at the time.

Also the graphics were way better. So if that game came out in 97 it would have blown people away

 

[HoodWinked]

i feel like you're not factoring that if FFVIII came out first it wouldn't even have made the same impact, FFVIII is only remotely digestible because people played FF7. its story and systems are far more obsured and convoluted. i think if FFVIII came out first it wouldn't have propelled the franchise into the mainstream and probably been about as popular as games like dragon quests games are outside of japan.

 

[Muffdraul]

FFVIII is only remotely digestible because people played FF7.

I think it's totally the contrary. In Japan, FFVIII was as successful and well received as any other FF. In the US, there was a huge backlash, and what really got that ball rolling was that it was so different from VII. The vast majority of the FF fanbase in the west were FF newbies who had only just discovered the franchise with VII and had only played VII and wanted another VII. VIII has its flaws, but I swear from where I was sitting it sure seemed like its real crime was not being anything like VII and lots of people just couldn't abide that.

If VIII had come before VII, I don't think it would have been extremely successful. But I also don't think there would be so many people 15 years later gritting their teeth and going "omfg I fucking HATE FF8 SOOOOOO MUCH. STUPID ORPHANGE SCENE ARRRGGGHHH KILL ME"

 

[Manmademan]

I think it's totally the contrary. In Japan, FFVIII was as successful and well received as any other FF. In the US, there was a huge backlash, and what really got that ball rolling was that it was so different from VII. The vast majority of the FF fanbase in the west were FF newbies who had only just discovered the franchise with VII and had only played VII and wanted another VII. VIII has it's flaws, but I swear from where I was sitting it sure seemed like it's real crime was not being anything like VII and lots of people just couldn't abide that.

If VIII had come before VII, I don't think it would have been extremely successful. But I also don't think there would be so many people 15 years later gritting their teeth and going "omfg I fucking HATE FF8 SOOOOOO MUCH. STUPID ORPHANGE SCENE ARRRGGGHHH KILL ME"

That's exactly what it was. Anyone saying anything less is crazy.

FF7 isn't the best jRPG on the PS1, it's not even the best FF on the PS1. There are heavy arguments mechanically, graphically, and story wise that either 8, 9, or tactics are all better.

Despite this, there is a MASSIVE sales gap between FF7 and not just every other entry in the series, but every other RPG on any platform in the united states in console history. You'd be hard pressed to find another game not named FF8 or 9 on the PS1 that sold a tenth of what that game did.

FF7 is a good game, but it's not THAT much better than everything else. It DID benefit from an extremely massive high profile ad campaign worth millions that made it seem like nothing else on the market though- and as such it became the first jrpg for millions of gamers, even if what it was doing wasn't any different than FFIV and VI, only flashier.

Had that game been FF8 or 9 instead of 7 the exact same thing would have happened, and 7 would have been the game where everyone didn't understand why it was sooooooo different and why can't we just have ff8-2.

 

[Fusebox]

As people said before, if FFVII came after VIII it would've been an apology. I say this even as I'm not the hugest fan of FFVII, I think Tactics, VI, XII and IV are better.

The sole reason FFVIII isn't the worst mainline Final Fantasy is because they created FFXIII.

Hey you posted what I was gonna post so I'm just gonna quote you instead.

 

[PK Gaming]

I can't believe people:

a) prefer squall to cloud. Squall is the most incredibly trope-y character out there. Cloud is light years more interesting.
b) prefer the nonsense time travel plot (TIME COMPRESSION!!! **Evil Laugh**)
c) prefer the game system (junction is extremely Grindy and low depth. Materia is one of the most elegant and versatile skill systems of all time.)
d) think any FF romance is "incredible." Especially Squal-Rinoa which puts cliche and uninteresting in a taciturn emo box tied up with a cheesy bow.
e) think that people like 7 because it came first. 7 is the clearly better game in depth, in plot, in characters, in almost all aspects.

Squall doesn't even have the benefit of being at his best in the NA version.

The english translation completely, completely, completely missed the point of his character.

 

[Pinko Marx]

I forgot it has been 3 weeks since the last thread ritual of "Its time to bash Final Fantasy 8 again, because making fun of 8 never gets old"

We get it, Final Fantasy VIII wasnt as cool as generic jrpg mc Cloud and generic jrpg looking villain Sephiroth.

Do we need monthly repeated discussions how FF8 failed?

Cloud and Sephi are generic looking? Point me to the hoard of look a like heroes and villains?
Bonus points if they came BEFORE FFVII considering how big of an influence VII was on the genre.

 

[Clear]

A lot of people really loved FFVIII then, and still love it today. Square must have been doing something right.

The best part of course is that there's nothing else quite like it.

 

[Rezae]

I've played through every FF game. VII is very memorable, even if I think it's pretty overrated and not in my top 3.

VIII I can't remember a damn thing about it other than wanting to punch Squall, and the stupid revelation late in the game.


I think it would have simply showed a natural progression in quality in the PS1 era: VIII -> VII -> IX.

 

[Fdkn]

That's exactly what it was. Anyone saying anything less is crazy.

FF7 isn't the best jRPG on the PS1, it's not even the best FF on the PS1. There are heavy arguments mechanically, graphically, and story wise that either 8, 9, or tactics are all better.

Despite this, there is a MASSIVE sales gap between FF7 and not just every other entry in the series, but every other RPG on any platform in the united states in console history. You'd be hard pressed to find another game not named FF8 or 9 on the PS1 that sold a tenth of what that game did.

FF7 is a good game, but it's not THAT much better than everything else. It DID benefit from an extremely massive high profile ad campaign worth millions that made it seem like nothing else on the market though- and as such it became the first jrpg for millions of gamers, even if what it was doing wasn't any different than FFIV and VI, only flashier.

Had that game been FF8 or 9 instead of 7 the exact same thing would have happened, and 7 would have been the game where everyone didn't understand why it was sooooooo different and why can't we just have ff8-2.

To add something to what you said and the post you quoted, this revisionist story about FFVIII getting poor or divisive reception is bonkers. FFVIII was considered an excellent game when it launched and was loved by millions of fans, the critics, and it was a huge success.

The internet has been trying to reshape history with hyperbole since then, but that's it.
VIII had flaws, so did VII. The real best FF of that era is IX anyway, and it's the one that sold notably less...

 

[Sanjuro]

Final Fantasy 8 largely marked the death onset of Square for me. Everything shortly after dropped further and further.

If it released prior to FFVII? I'd have a better opinion of them for a longer period of time.

 

[Dark_3nergy]

Squall doesn't even have the benefit of being at his best in the NA version.

The english translation completely, completely, completely missed the point of his character.

As a avid fan of FF4, seeing this is rather heart breaking that the translation effort was sub-par. FF4 suffered from this to possibly a harsher extreme.

It is nice to read the dialog on this page. It completely rewrites the tone of those specific conversations and makes Squalls demeanor much softer. It makes him seem like a much more likable character with just one or two changes in text. Maybe the folks translating this did not recognize the fact that the term, 'Whatever', is just a really poor English word to be using soo frequently... especially considering this is our main protagonist. We 'want' him to care to some degree.

Thank you for sharing this.

 

[Lothar]

Are YOU reading the post you just quoted? WoW isn't well known? Kingdom Hearts isn't well known? Tales of Syphonia isn't well known?

That ranking is GAF's official. It's not a yearly system, only essential RPG's is. You're wrong about VIII. Let go and move on.

The only two choices for why a game would be ranked 75th in a genre is either because it's not that well not known or most here don't think it's that essential. I'm surprised WoW is so low. I thought it would be much higher. Perhaps people have started to turn on WoW?

 

[Steejee]

VI and IX are better than VIII, so swapping it with VII wouldn't do a whole lot besides make people ask 'Why are the character models so much worse than the previous game when I'm running around?'

 

[Manmademan]

To add something to what you said and the post you quoted, this revisionist story about FFVIII getting poor or divisive reception is bonkers. FFVIII was considered an excellent game when it launched and was loved by millions of fans, the critics, and it was a huge success.

The internet has been trying to reshape history with hyperbole since then, but that's it.
VIII had flaws, so did VII. The real best FF of that era is IX anyway, and it's the one that sold notably less...

Yeah, I agree here. I recall 8 selling pretty well (if not quite at 7 levels) and a lot of people owning it. 8 also had a pretty big marketing budget- not 7 big, but big. The internet and most game forums though, that game just got beaten up all over the place, mostly because it wasn't FF7-2.

9 sold way less than 7 or 8, but remember that game launched after the dreamcast and around the same time as the PS2. The casual market had moved on to thinking about next gen by then, and I don't remember that game being pushed anywhere near as hard on tv, in game magazines, etc.

As a avid fan of FF4, seeing this is rather heart breaking that the translation effort was sub-par. FF4 suffered from this to possibly a harsher extreme.

FFT is the all time champ of horrific translations though. I mean- that may be the worst translated game on consoles, period.

 

[MagnaderAlpha]

FF7 is only worshipped by gamers who first experienced FF with it, and it's understandable.

For those into the series since the SNES or NES days, the release order of VIII versus VII hardly makes any difference I'm sure.

As someone who grew up with the series, played it since the first one was released on the NES..... NOPE!!!!

Passing FFVI was glorious and the ending had me anticipating FFVII as soon as "The End" came on screen. The anticipation towards FFVII was long and awesome. Every new nugget of info(via game magazines) made me more and more excited, and when I finally picked up my reserved copy from Electronics Boutique(with the Cloud shirt I got for pre-ordering it), the game lived up to the hype and delivered quite an epic adventure. This made me look forward to FFVIII, and I'm not gonna lie, the pre-release info cycle was cool. Loved the look of the characters, the world(towns in particular) looked cool and it was looking to be a worthy successor to FFVII. Then it came out and I played it....

 

[Foldedpencil]

For me the differences in the games comes down to the big mid point reveals. In FFVII when I found out the truth about what happened at Nibelhiem, it blew my mind and I was late to school because I was unwilling to stop playing. In FFVIII, when I found out about the orphanage, I calmly walked over to my PS1, turned it off, and never played it again. Utterly unbelievable plot twist...

 

[Lothar]

FFT is the all time champ of horrific translations though. I mean- that may be the worst translated game on consoles, period.

And it actually got two different horrendous translations. At least they got it right with FF4 eventually.

 

[Muffdraul]

To add something to what you said and the post you quoted, this revisionist story about FFVIII getting poor or divisive reception is bonkers. FFVIII was considered an excellent game when it launched and was loved by millions of fans, the critics, and it was a huge success.

The internet has been trying to reshape history with hyperbole since then, but that's it.
VIII had flaws, so did VII. The real best FF of that era is IX anyway, and it's the one that sold notably less...

Um, sorry, no, bullshit. As soon as FFVIII released, message boards across the internet exploded in flame wars between people who loved it, and seemingly just as many who hated it with a passion. It was extremely controversial in the fanbase from day 1.

 

[Dark_3nergy]

FFT is the all time champ of horrific translations though. I mean- that may be the worst translated game on consoles, period.

How bad is it? I could never get into Tactics. Though I have heard good things about it.

Spoiler

Despite me beating more modern Fire Emblem games... hahaha

 

[sviri]

I think so. A big part of VII's nostalgia factor is due to it being the first big 3D RPG aimed directly at the mainstream. Either way, VIII has definitely resonated with me just as strongly as VII.

 

[Haganeren]

FF7 is only worshipped by gamers who first experienced FF with it, and it's understandable.

For those into the series since the SNES or NES days, the release order of VIII versus VII hardly makes any difference I'm sure.

Errrr not really.

I have grown with the three FF on SNES when i was a child on emulator then years later i bought FFVII, FFVIII and FFX at the same time and the VII really immediatly took me away from the others.
Never understood the hype for the IX, it was a good game but it reminded me so much of all the RPG i have played on SNES that i couldn't find it THAT incredible... I found it really cool and then i played something else, it's only way after that i found it was so beloved by fans.

FFVII which is between the 3D characters of FFVIII/IX and the sprite of FFVI is still something really special... And the world isn't afraid of being still full of strange things just like in FFVI which had that ridiculous Ultros character.
No really, for me FFVIII felt really far away from the SNES games and the VII still felt "like home just bigger and with explosion".

 

[Wazzy]

Um, sorry, no, bullshit. As soon as FFVIII released, message boards across the internet exploded in flame wars between people who loved it, and seemingly just as many who hated it with a passion. It was extremely controversial in the fanbase from day 1.

Eh that happened with every FF. VII got compared to VI for years but the issue is that VII was bigger than VI so the vocal outcry wasn't as large. I remember for years watching fans compare Kefka and Sephiroth and proceeding to shit on the other to prop up the game they were defending.

The reason VIII's felt more vocal is because it was being compared to the most popular game in the series.

 

[Sub_Level]

VIII is a hugely flawed game. But I will never apologize for loving it.

That being said, no OP in your alternate history it might be hated less but I highly doubt it would have been as revered as VII, much less be the most beloved FF lol

 

[thelastcrusader]

Even if 8 came out years before 7, 7 would still be better.

 

[wtd2009]

FF7 is only worshipped by gamers who first experienced FF with it, and it's understandable.

For those into the series since the SNES or NES days, the release order of VIII versus VII hardly makes any difference I'm sure.

Nope. FF4 was my first when I was a kid, VII>>>VIII. Not even in the same ball park all things considered. Maybe I'm in the minority though.

 

[enigmatic_alex44]

VIII is a hugely flawed game. But I will never apologize for loving it.

That being said, no OP in your alternate history it might be hated less but I highly doubt it would have been as revered as VII, much less be the most beloved FF lol

How is it "hugely flawed"?

VIII is already the 3rd best selling game in the series, just behind X and VII I believe. If VIII released before VII, it would likely be #1.

"Less hated"? Check the replies in this thread sweetie, there's a ton of love for VIII here and anywhere else you look online.

Um, sorry, no, bullshit. As soon as FFVIII released, message boards across the internet exploded in flame wars between people who loved it, and seemingly just as many who hated it with a passion. It was extremely controversial in the fanbase from day 1.

What is this about flame wars on message boards when VIII first released because fans expected VII-2? LMAO were there even message boards back then? Was GameFAQs even a thing? Talk about revisionist history. VIII was universally critically acclaimed when it released. It was not divisive like XIII is where half the fans hate it. If Metacritic was a thing in 1999, I bet VII and VIII would have around the same score (98).

 

[Steroyd]

Ffvii is a TON of people's favorite because it was their first. If ffviii were in its place, all those PlayStation owners would've had their proverbial jrpg cherries popped with viii, and yes it would be that alternate timelines favorite.

Disagree with that notion in general, FFVIII was my first RPG, and I still ended up liking FFVII alot more, the only difference is that the type of graphics would have been flipped so FFVII's aesthetic wouldn't have had a nostalgic charm to it as the years progressed.

 

[Taruranto]

Squall doesn't even have the benefit of being at his best in the NA version.

The english translation completely, completely, completely missed the point of his character.

Funnily enough, several EU languages got a better and more accurate translation the NA one. (We got Artemisia and "Sorry" in my language. Also the "Lagunarock" pun.)

 

[Inuhanyou]

How is it "hugely flawed"?

VIII is already the 3rd best selling game in the series, just behind X and VII I believe. If VIII released before VII, it would likely be #1.

Sales don't dictate what the flaws of the game are.

 

[Vincent Alexander]

As a avid fan of FF4, seeing this is rather heart breaking that the translation effort was sub-par. FF4 suffered from this to possibly a harsher extreme.

It is nice to read the dialog on this page. It completely rewrites the tone of those specific conversations and makes Squalls demeanor much softer. It makes him seem like a much more likable character with just one or two changes in text. Maybe the folks translating this did not recognize the fact that the term, 'Whatever', is just a really poor English word to be using soo frequently... especially considering this is our main protagonist. We 'want' him to care to some degree.

Thank you for sharing this.

Completely agree. I think Final Fantasy 8 is god awful, mostly because of the characters. Squall especially. Now that I see this translation, I'm re-thinking Squall. I would love a fan translation patch or something.