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[Blackace]

Oh my bad, wasn't aware. All I own is the first Pitbull album. I just always see him on MTV like once a year with some Euro-Pop dance record and I say, "he's still around?" But that just goes to show how artists can stay afloat in one way or another.

He did 55,000 in the US with Planet Pit but he charges 20,000 euros to do a show...

 

[exarkun]

He did 55,000 in the US with Planet Pit but he charges 20,000 euros to do a show...

Damn, I knew he was big in the latin countries (every latin girl I know thinks he's sexy as fuck) but not the euro thing.

Great news about the release numbers. I agree that Wiz prolly shoulda realized earlier, but his singles were selling and making that ring-tone rap money and he/label were probably trying to get as much out of them before releasing the album. Just a guess.

I do agree that between his mixtapes and the actual album there is a bit of a jump to the mainstream. Still, some of his songs are toe tappers.

 

[enzo_gt]

From my perspective, I think the difference lies in the nature of the fanbase. Wiz Khalifa was already popular before major label signing, but he blew up even more this past year. He spread his fanbase with independent releases, touring, appealing to the weed fans, etc. For the most part I'd say his fans are more "buy the next hot song" of iTunes rather than support him as an artist. They'll go out to a tour to see him for sure, but buying the whole album? Nah.

J.Cole's appeal is more about him being a new school classic hip-hop artist. The fanbase piggybacks off the same appeal of artists like Kanye or Lupe, guys who have a backstory or some degree of depth about them -- people are interested in J.Cole as an artist whereas Wiz is more a "Flavor of the Week" type guy. It's the same reason B.o.B. can have several #1 hits and only sell 84k in a week, nobody is really interested in Bobby Ray, they couldn't care less if he falls off the face of the earth.

Cole could've re-released either The Warm Up or Friday Night Lights as EPs, much how Drake did with So Far Gone and still sold a decent amount.

Agreed. We know Khalifa is in there cause dude earned the same amount as Drake in the last year. Touring money. But yeah Wiz wasn't as "left field" of an introduction into the mainstream. He's always done mainstream songs and established his fanbase longer ago than Cole. BoB wad a straight surprise to the mainstream. Dude knocked his singles out of the park, and introduced the world to Bruno Mars. He established himself early, regardless of album sales, that Airplanes money is probably still rolling in. I feel like Cole is introduced to the mainstream but doesn't have his hit yet. And it isnt Lights Please. He needs that hit, every artist does, and obligatory singles don't count. He needs his Black & Yellow or Airplanes/Beautiful Girls to survive, or else he'll go Wale on us.

Wiz fucked up by signing to a major label when he could have gone independent and made the same impact with more money. He waited too long for the pop off, and then Converse waited too long to pick up on the movement as well as a result.

 

[Bishman]

Read the making of J. Cole - Cole World: The Sideline Story. Click the image.

 

[Blackace]

Damn, I knew he was big in the latin countries (every latin girl I know thinks he's sexy as fuck) but not the euro thing.

It is that Flo-Rida, Pitbull, Lil Jon, Three six, T-Pain crossover music...

 

[RBelong2Us]

Why is Jay-Z getting any credit for this albums success... Dude did nothing for this cat after signing him.

 

[Blackace]

Why is Jay-Z getting any credit for this albums success... Dude did nothing for this cat after signing him.

well he did sign him..

 

[Bishman]

Why is Jay-Z getting any credit for this albums success... Dude did nothing for this cat after signing him.

A Star Is Born. Clap for 'em!

SMH at you guys not wanting to give Jay any props.

 

[Oozer3993]

Agreed. We know Khalifa is in there cause dude earned the same amount as Drake in the last year. Touring money. But yeah Wiz wasn't as "left field" of an introduction into the mainstream. He's always done mainstream songs and established his fanbase longer ago than Cole. BoB wad a straight surprise to the mainstream. Dude knocked his singles out of the park, and introduced the world to Bruno Mars. He established himself early, regardless of album sales, that Airplanes money is probably still rolling in. I feel like Cole is introduced to the mainstream but doesn't have his hit yet. And it isnt Lights Please. He needs that hit, every artist does, and obligatory singles don't count. He needs his Black & Yellow or Airplanes/Beautiful Girls to survive, or else he'll go Wale on us.

Wiz fucked up by signing to a major label when he could have gone independent and made the same impact with more money. He waited too long for the pop off, and then Converse waited too long to pick up on the movement as well as a result.

Cole was so close to his mainstream hit. So close.

 

[Kaizer]

Cole was so close to his mainstream hit. So close.

Oh yeah, forgot about that one, shame it was a reference for a Diddy track, he would've made bank with that song.

 

[rozay]

Cole was so close to his mainstream hit. So close.

How did

What

Please tell me he didn't just give this track to diddy? Wow

Also, wow at 200-250k first week. I am honestly amazed.

 

[The M.O.B]

How did

What

Please tell me he didn't just give this track to diddy? Wow

Also, wow at 200-250k first week. I am honestly amazed.

Nah, he was paid to make a demo for it by Diddy. It was never his in the first place.

 

[overcast]

I find it extremely difficult to not nod my head to Rise and Shine.

 

[Brofist]

So he pulled off some decent sales. Good for him, seems like he put in the work.

Looking forward to his post success material. Guess he can't keep milking the rags to riches little guy who made it big routine anymore.

 

[enzo_gt]

Read the making of J. Cole - Cole World: The Sideline Story. Click the image.

Just finished this up. Fantastic read, as was the one about MBDTF. The bits about Never Told, Breakdown and Work Out are interesting.

Wanna see that Lost Ones video.

 

[Ken Masters]

Cole was so close to his mainstream hit. So close.

doesn't matter really, big singles =/= album sales, Wiz had one of the biggest tracks in the country and Cole nothing but flopped singles and he still outsold him

 

[overcast]

Lets get some lists going. Rank the tracks best to worst.

1. Rise and Shine- Ridiculous track. Cole at his finest. Production is bumping, lyrics on point.
2. God's Gift- Another track with great production. Cole straight spits fire on this one too.
3. Dollar and a Dream III- Great follow up to the other 2 D&D tracks. Fantastic way to open the album.
4. Breakdown- Touching song. Hits home for me on a few points. Terrific personal song.
5. Light's Please- Not much needs to be said.
6. Sideline Story- This song is one of the ones that sums up why I love his music so much.
7. Lost Ones- Another great personal song. Cole brings up multiple points of views on a difficult topic. Gives me a He Say, She Say vibe.
8. Nobody's Perfect- Nice beat, smooth song in general. Missy does very well in this track, that surprised me.
9. In the Morning- I've liked this song since it came out in FNL. I actually like Drakes verse too.
10. Mr. Nice Watch- Really catchy song, been stuck in my head lately. Grew on me after the initial release of it.
11. Cole World- Enjoyable track, doesn't stick out too much to me though.
12. Can't Get Enough- I actually like this song. Even though I know it isn't too great. Weird..
13. Never Told- No ID didn't impress me with the beat. Below average song.
14. Work Out- Definitely not a good song. Luckily it's just a bonus track.

Overall I am very impressed by the album. I would probably give it a 9/10 (subject to change). I am happy that Cole didn't sell out and just go for poppy singles like another rapper I like *cough* Lupe *cough*. He stuck to his guns and delivered a great album. Even the Intro and Interludes were well done. I can't wait to see what Cole does with the next album/mixtape.

 

[Big Chief Crazy Cone]

For those that don't have it already, here is a mixtape put together by HFHH that has all the tracks he did that got cut from Sideline Story, including the Any Given Sunday tracks. If you missed it, it's like he put out a double album:

Cole World: The Sideline Sessions

Some great material on there; I particularly like Return of Simba, See It to Believe It, Killers, and Be.

 

[Recon]

For those that don't have it already, here is a mixtape put together by HFHH that has all the tracks he did that got cut from Sideline Story, including the Any Given Sunday tracks. If you missed it, it's like he put out a double album:

Cole World: The Sideline Sessions

Some great material on there; I particularly like Return of Simba, See It to Believe It, Killers, and Be.

Pass Me By was never a real song. Its a mix of a song called Problems by Cole and another song by B.o.B. Other than that, good mix.

 

[enzo_gt]

Pass Me By was never a real song. Its a mix of a song called Problems by Cole and another song by B.o.B. Other than that, good mix.

I thought it was the original version which Kevin Cossom then jacked (like he usually does) an unfinished version of and unofficially put it out making someone leak the real deal?

This music business, lol.

 

[Recon]

I thought it was the original version which Kevin Cossom then jacked (like he usually does) an unfinished version of and unofficially put it out making someone leak the real deal?

This music business, lol.

Problems-J.Cole(aka Pass Me By)

I think it was later released with BoB on it, i never heard about the other shit you were talking about tho, but i have had problems on a mix for a long time.

 

[Gila]

Rise and shine is my favorite track in the album, followed by God's gift. And I love how it flows right after Rise and shine

I take this back, God's gift is the best track on the album

 

[spindashing]

6.1 Pitchfork Album Review:

J. Cole is the kind of rapper who worries aloud, and frequently, if he's getting too deep for his own songs. A St. John's University magna cum laude graduate raised in poverty by a single mother, Cole distinguished himself in his early career as much through effort as talent. Over a string of fiercely earnest, frequently impressive mixtapes, he rapped in writerly thickets in which the semicolons and embedded clauses were audible, and he produced all his own tracks. He became a leading light of the conscious-rap crowd, who, always eager for a viable mainstream entrant in rap's ongoing culture wars, fervently embraced him. And then, perhaps inevitably, Jay-Z swooped down and signed him.

The resulting major-label debut, Cole World: The Sideline Story, which finally saw release this week, is shaping up to be an actual Big Moment for Cole: Despite a tepid radio presence, it is projected to sell nearly 250,000 copies. Those are startling first-week numbers for a new rapper these days, and they assure that J. Cole will get at least a partial promenade through the spotlight. People appear to care deeply about this guy. But it's difficult to imagine why from the evidence of this studiously bland and compromise-riddled record, which seems to be searching for the meeting point of every conceivable middle.

About half the album bears Cole's production signature: a glimmering update on 1990s jazz-rap, spiked with live-sounding boom-bap drums. As a rap aesthetic, it's about as rigidly conservative as they come. But Cole is admirably committed to it, and he fleshes it out with surprising musical detail-- backup vocals, comping jazz guitars, lots and lots of grand piano. The songs that stick to this template feel warm, pleasant, and Cole-ish. The rest of Cole World is a 2011-era pop-rap project with a varying success rate: the madcap, syncopated single "Can't Get Enough" feels like a lost transmission from 2002-era rap radio, and it succeeds only insofar as it compels you to imagine how much better an '03-era T.I., or even N.O.R.E., would have finessed the beat than does Cole, who deflates the track's bounce.

It doesn't help that Cole brings the least-flavorful bars of his career to his debut, aiming, most likely, for something more universal than his diaristic mixtapes. The few glints we get of his personal life are intriguing: "Lost Ones" is a slippery and well-conceived, two-sided argument between Cole and his baby mother over whether they will keep the child. "Breakdown" affectingly recounts his late-in-life reunion with his father. But otherwise he seems to be playing by implied, major-label debut rules: keep it simple, slow it down, don't lose anyone. The result is like glutinous paste that results from mashing together Drake, Kanye, and Big K.R.I.T. and straining out what makes them interesting.

Jay himself, the benefactor figure, pops up twice, and both times his presence subtly undermines the marquee star. On his guest verse for "Mr. Nice Watch," he flexes his double -time flow and coolly blows Cole out of the water. He's heard again on the intro to "Rise and Shine," musing in a sampled snippet from his 2000 concert film Backstage on his ideal signee: rapping over his breakfast cereal, gunning for Jay's own spot. "I'mma find him, though, and sign him; I don't want no problems," he says and there is a startlingly predatory ring to his laugh. J. Cole certainly posed no threat to Jay-Z's crown; he's too humble and lacks charisma. But maybe the next up-and-coming rapper to successfully forge and remain in his own lane is the one who refuses Jay's help.

Thoughts? Comments?

 

[Recon]

6.1 Pitchfork Album Review:


Thoughts? Comments?

They gave WTT an 8.5, and lets not forget their blow job style review of MBDTF. I don't take PF seriously anymore.

 

[enzo_gt]

Not sure why people care about Pitchfork, they seem to be ridiculously inconsistent in their reviewing scale and the criteria they use is usually really, REALLY abstracted. The criteria is literally different for every album they review. They create a mold to fill for each artist and if they don't fit their specific mold, they knock the album.

It is kind of a compromised record, but it makes total sense to me after reading the breakdown over at Complex of each track and why it was included. But it surely isn't bland. Can't Get Enough was supposed to have a Big Pimpin' like vibe, and subsequently suggesting someone like NORE to go over that beat is blasphemous. I'm not really sure how to feel about them citing a legend outshining him on his own track as some sort of Renegade kind of deal where it's working against his album, really, it's the least Jay could do. Between that and complaints about his rhymes, it sounds like they don't want to hear the blend of the 90s and the modern that Cole is, which is kind of a big part of his appeal.

I don't really get the drum loop complaint on GAF either, I'm not consciously listening to the songs and thinking one sounded like the last.

They gave WTT an 8.5, and lets not forget their blow job style review of MBDTF. I don't take PF seriously anymore.

Yeah as much as I big up MBDTF I'll never cite a 10/10 from Pitchfork as a merit. Music reviews are even more useless than movie and game ones.

 

[spindashing]

I like how they listed Rise and Shine as a track where Jay undermined J. Cole.

 

[DominoKid]

6.1 Pitchfork Album Review:


Thoughts? Comments?

thats more than i'd give it but they're pretty on point w/ the comments.

 

[LightOfTruth]

He did kind of kill Cole on Mr. Nice Watch though

 

[spindashing]

Jay's verse on Mr. Nice Watch threw me off. Since the track was Watch The Throne-esque, I almost dismissed it but Jay tore it to shreds.

 

[jon bones]

i kinda wish jay wasn't on that track - just to keep focus on j. cole

 

[Kusagari]

Jay does body Cole on Nice Watch, but its only because Cole sounds like shit on that song.

 

[ecurbj]

Jay's verse on Mr. Nice Watch threw me off. Since the track was Watch The Throne-esque, I almost dismissed it but Jay tore it to shreds.

I thought I was the only one that picked up on the similar Watch the Throne-style. I did like Jay part though. And Cole did pretty good. That's one of my favorite tracks though.

 

[Recon]

The question is, how can someone not pick up on the WTT vibe of Nicewatch. Shit was made after WTT released, so its an obvious influence.

 

[Oldschoolgamer]

After having time to let it sit...I agree with them. While the N.O.R.E. tidbit was a real stretch (he actually did kill shit in that time period though), it feels like it could have been a bit better with some outside help on the production side. He also needs to breath some more life into his damn bars. >:|

If I was using the scale they grade with, I'd probably give him a 7 though. 6.1 seems low, even with the critiques.

It's whatever though. I hope he actually pays attention to certain criticisms and Jay-Z actually gives him some direction for his next effort. If he does, it will probably be real gdlk.

 

[kamspy]

They gave WTT an 8.5, and lets not forget their blow job style review of MBDTF. I don't take PF seriously anymore.

WTT deserved at least a 9. Easily the most ambitious rap album in a long time. Cole at 6 sounds about right. Above average, but nothing that really jumps out at ya. It's not IGN, Pitchfork usually uses the whole 10 point scale.

 

[Recon]

I felt the production was perfect for his style. His drums could use a bit of work on some songs, but overall he did a fantastic job. His flow, lyrics,production, everything work well together.

WTT deserved at least a 9. Easily the most ambitious rap album in a long time. Cole at 6 sounds about right. Above average, but nothing that really jumps out at ya. It's not IGN, Pitchfork usually uses the whole 10 point scale.

WTT was hardly ambitious. It was lazy. Just because an over the hill rapper and mediocre rapper come together on an album, does not make it ambitious. Also, Lift Off is the worst single of the last couple years. HAM is the second worst single in the last few years.

 

[TheKaeptain]

WTT is the most mediocre rap album of the year. I don't give a shit how good the production was. The lyrical side of it is trash. It's the definition of phoning in. Especially Jay-Z's verses.

 

[Recon]

WTT is the most mediocre rap album of the year. I don't give a shit how good the production was. The lyrical side of it is trash. It's the definition of phoning in. Especially Jay-Z's verses.

Jay-Z on Lift Off. I can't think of a worse verse, even Lil B has better verses..maybe.

 

[Oldschoolgamer]

WTT was hardly ambitious. It was lazy. Just because an over the hill rapper and mediocre rapper come together on an album, does not make it ambitious. Also, Lift Off is the worst single of the last couple years. HAM is the second worst single in the last few years.

This is true. I didn't think it was possible for Jay to ever be found on a track that was as bad as, or close to, "Ghetto Techno."

 

[Recon]

This is true. I didn't think it was possible for Jay to ever be found on a track that was as bad as, or close to, "Ghetto Techno."

I honestly feel whoever like Lift Off has horrendous taste. That shit is just flat out bad. Its not even mediocre, its offensively bad.

 

[RJT]

WTT was hardly ambitious. It was lazy. Just because an over the hill rapper and mediocre rapper come together on an album, does not make it ambitious. Also, Lift Off is the worst single of the last couple years. HAM is the second worst single in the last few years.

While I do like WTT (a little bit under Cole World, but both are a 7-8 for me), the bolded part is so true...

 

[DominoKid]

WTT deserved at least a 9. Easily the most ambitious rap album in a long time. Cole at 6 sounds about right. Above average, but nothing that really jumps out at ya. It's not IGN, Pitchfork usually uses the whole 10 point scale.

it burns their souls kam.

 

[effzee]

Ambition doesn't necessarily translate to good music. I thought Kanye's auto-tune album was ambitious but doesn't change the fact that I think it sucks.

WTT is good, not great. Not as high as a 9 but not as low as some of you have it either.

 

[Kusagari]

Jay-Z on Lift Off. I can't think of a worse verse, even Lil B has better verses..maybe.

Jay's verse is probably worse but Ye's verse annoys me more. Every time I hear that tattoo line I cringe.

Also, did they even send Lift Off out as a single yet? I just hear Ninjas in Paris on the radio.

 

[enzo_gt]

WTT is the most mediocre rap album of the year. I don't give a shit how good the production was. The lyrical side of it is trash. It's the definition of phoning in. Especially Jay-Z's verses.

Seriously, Jay drops his best verses since the Black Album and y'all won't even give him credit for that? WTT as a whole is the complete opposite of phoning in.

N****s in Paris, Otis, That's My Bitch, Gotta Have It, Why I Love You and Illest Motherfucker Alive have classic Jay verses.

Say what you want about the album, but attacking Jays verses is pretty much the last thing you do if your desperately trying to discredit it, next to the production.

@Kusagari, they dropped Lift Off in favour of N****s in Paris and Why I Love You. They're shooting a video for the former.

 

[Recon]

it burns their souls kam.

Its about as mediocre an album as you can get. Couple bumpin tracks, mostly forgettable. Everything besides Murder and NiP is mediocre as hell.

Seriously, Jay drops his best verses since the Black Album and y'all won't even give him credit for that? WTT as a whole is the complete opposite of phoning in.

N****s in Paris, Otis, That's My Bitch, Gotta Have It, Why I Love You and Illest Motherfucker Alive have classic Jay verses.

Say what you want about the album, but attacking Jays verses is pretty much the last thing you do if your desperately trying to discredit it, next to the production.

@Kusagari, they dropped Lift Off in favour of N****s in Paris and Why I Love You. They're shooting a video for the former.

They are classic Jay verses only if you consider American Gangster/Kingdom Come/BP3 classics.

 

[enzo_gt]

Its about as mediocre an album as you can get. Couple bumpin tracks, mostly forgettable. Everything besides Murder and NiP is mediocre as hell.





They are classic Jay verses only if you consider American Gangster/Kingdom Come/BP3 classics.

Well that can't be right since all three of those albums radically differ in quality and WTT is above them all. The first two are hot trash and the third is alright.

 

[RJT]

Its about as mediocre an album as you can get. Couple bumpin tracks, mostly forgettable. Everything besides Murder and NiP is mediocre as hell.





They are classic Jay verses only if you consider American Gangster/Kingdom Come/BP3 classics.

One of those is not like the other two...

Spoiler

American Gangster is a classic

 

[Recon]

WTT is barely better than Kingdom Come/BP3/AG. And all of those are hot garbage. So whats marginally better than hot garbage,WTT.

 

[spindashing]

What's wrong with American Gangster? It's Jay-Z's best album post retirement comeback. I can definitely get behind disliking Blueprint 3 and Kingdom Come, though.