Support NeoGAF

[dancingphlower]

Because I have common sense and basic reasoning. Once a video game series gets rebooted it doesn't go back to the old. I know how you feel though, I'm still waiting for evil dead 4

Prince of Persia: The Forgotten Sands says otherwise...

 

[AcceptableGhost]

Literally the only place I see it is on gaf, which is feeling more and more like bizarro land every day. I have no idea how it has developed such a bad rap on here since.

I can't think of any other place I've ever been on the internet where Ninja Gaiden Black is considered some flawless unparalleled masterpiece,(it's just a good game) while DMC3 is pretty commonly thought of as being nothing more than a "combo game".

Some crazy ass revisionist history going on in these parts

what do you not enjoy about NGB

it is pretty godly

 

[Roto13]

He says this about every game he's ever worked on.

Except maybe RE2.

 

[Robot Pants]

Would absolutely love a Dmc5 like the old ones, but I'm not holding my breath on this.

 

[ViewtifulJC]

Did my heart good to see so much love for NGB > DMC3 on NeoGAF. Brought me back to those 2005 GameFAQs days arguing over how dumb/not-dumb the AI was in DMC3 and how the chess pieces were actually really awesome.

God bless this website

 

[wizzbang]

That's not saying much.

 

[Dahbomb]

Vergil, A&R and one other boss fight are good

Cereberus sucked
Horse sucked
Arkham blob sucked
Mirror/Light sucked
Leviathan sucked
Centipede sucked

Vergil (all 3 forms), A&R, Beowulf, Cerberus, Geryon, Nevan, Lady are all great boss fights because they all have new stuff you can discover on them in each fight. That's more bosses than DMC1 have bosses total.

The only genuinely bad boss fights in DMC3 are Doppelganger, Leviathan and Arkham. That's not that bad of a ratio. Even the Jester boss fight was kinda fun (SE version only).

 

[Fimbulvetr]

Reading too much into this bro

Let's make that the tagline of the inevitable 'Kamiya Says Shit on Twitter' OT.

 

[AcceptableGhost]

Did my heart good to see so much love for NGB > DMC3 on NeoGAF. Brought me back to those 2005 GameFAQs days arguing over how dumb/not-dumb the AI was in DMC3 and how the chess pieces were actually really awesome.

God bless this website

are none human-style enemies (or atleast those dumb dinosaur things) the chess pieces of NGB?

 

[Clawww]

Because I have common sense and basic reasoning. Once a video game series gets rebooted it doesn't go back to the old. That's not how rebranding works. Once something's been rebranded it either becomes successful or it dies in its current form. The only product I know of that defies this rule is coca cola with the new coke debacle. I will eat my shoes if devil may cry 5 is announced with old school Dante. I know how you feel though, I'm still waiting for evil dead 4

Alright, so what's your reasoning? I want to know the facts and details you're privy to that justify the smugness of your first post there. I don't want to remain oblivious. Thanks man.

Did my heart good to see so much love for NGB > DMC3 on NeoGAF. Brought me back to those 2005 GameFAQs days arguing over how dumb/not-dumb the AI was in DMC3 and how the chess pieces were actually really awesome.

God bless this website

Wait, why are you commenting on the AI in a game you claimed to not have bothered digging into?

 

[golduck342]

Please don't call it devil may cry 5. it will be a worse numbering scheme than iphone 5...

call it dante may cry

 

[Dahbomb]

Some crazy ass revisionist history going on in these parts

I think the worst revisionist history is the one related to DMC4. We can thank NT/Capcom for that.

I have seen people call DMC4 unplayable on more than one occasion around here. I have heard people refer to DMC1 as the same (that it's too archaic, obtuse and unplayable by today's standards).

 

[Net_Wrecker]

It's sad that Platinum is coming off as being 'type casted' for games.

How about something other than a character action game?

Why? They've made 3 character action games in 4 years all of which were different IPs and all of which play differently to each other while still being some of the best work in the genre. I don't see what's so bad about them flexing their muscle and doing what they seem to know best.

They're doing God's work, and doing it efficiently. I wish Remedy could pump out 3 different shooters in 4 years. I wish EAD Tokyo could get 3 different console platformers out in that span. Hell, I wish KojiPro and Team ICO could get anything released. Bring on the Platinum action games, yo.

 

[Zia]

I think the series is in good hands with Ninja Theory and Kamiya isn't to be trusted after The Wonderful 101.

 

[Clawww]

I think the series is in good hands with Ninja Theory and Kamiya isn't to be trusted after The Wonderful 101.

Damn, this post is gonna drive people crazy lol

 

[AcceptableGhost]

Damn, this post is gonna drive people crazy lol

good to see classic zia trolling is back and better than ever

 

[ViewtifulJC]

It's Zia, most people have learned to ignore her opinions by now

 

[Retro_]

what do you not enjoy about NGB

it is pretty godly

I have my issues with it. Not the place to discuss them though

I'm merely talking about its reception. DMC3 was pretty much the Dark Souls(I hate when people say this too, but it's an apt comparison for my point) of its era in terms of mass appeal and the community collaboration towards breaking the game down. It established genre staples that are pretty much present in every major modern entry in the genre today.

By comparison Ninja Gaiden was just another game. I mean it was the best thing on the original Xbox, but still.

but I mean you'd read gaf and think it was the other way around some days. I've been seeing DMC3 trashed consistently lately, while people seem to trash anything regardless of quality when compared to NGB.

Tangentially related to the current topic at best I know, but it still just blows my mind every time I see posts about either game. Where the hell did things go so wrong? Has Itagaki been working on a time machine this whole time?

 

[Dirk Benedict]

It's not the complete package, though. Not in the area that Devil May Cry exceeds it. That's why Devil May Cry is the superior offering for those looking to explore one of the most in-depth action combat system in gaming.

So, it's a "complete package", but a different sort of package. It's an action game has a more balanced approach to its other areas, whereas Devil May Cry throws it all in service to exploiting and exploring the depth of its combat system. The enemies, which you deem as 'boring', are conduits for this exploration, and are almost always set up so that skilled players can exploit the system for the highest possible gain.

Wonderful 101 is more frenetic and insane with its gameplay variety, but looser, not quite as deep - but still very engaging - and, of course, its gorgeous clean visual style is very attractive. It also has very compelling boss fights, although to be honest the horrific touch screen shit did put a secondary damper on the experience. By default I have to dock it for that... no true pure action game would have such a shit crutch that doesn't even work right all of the time.

I wish I had Magic Mushrooms when I first played DmC. The environments were astounding and varied. Especially The TV Station/Prison and Night Club.

 

[Silky]

Why? They've made 3 character action games in 4 years all of which were different IPs and all of which play differently to each other while still being some of the best work in the genre. I don't see what's so bad about them flexing their muscle and doing what they seem to know best.

wait

Bayo
MadWorld
Anarchy
Revengeance
Vanquish
TW101

I only count two. MadWorld and Anarchy are /brawlers/, Vanquish was an awful shootbang/action demon baby, and I've yet to play TW101.

As much as I want Platinum to make more action games to get the easy mode bullshit out of our systems, for fuck's sake, I want them to do something else. Make an RPG. Make a sim. Make Anarchy Reigns 2.

I've also yet to play Revengeance (cause fuck Konami) but I hear that game is pretty damn good.

I think the series is in good hands with Ninja Theory and Kamiya isn't to be trusted after The Wonderful 101.

Yep, definitely time for a smoke break.

 

[Retro_]

Why? They've made 3 character action games in 4 years all of which were different IPs and all of which play differently to each other while still being some of the best work in the genre. I don't see what's so bad about them flexing their muscle and doing what they seem to know best.

wait

Bayo
MadWorld
Anarchy
Revengeance
Vanquish
TW101

I only count two. MadWorld and Anarchy are /brawlers/, Vanquish was an awful shootbang/action demon baby, and I've yet to play TW101.

Also

I hate the phrase "character action game" that's also been popularized on here.

What a goddamn meaningless term.

They're all action games! Why the hell are we dividing a niche genre into even more narrow categories??

NEOGAF!!!

 

[Sir Ilpalazzo]

I only count two. MadWorld and Anarchy are /brawlers/

What is the distinction?

I think that outside of Vanquish and maybe Anarchy Reigns, all of their games have been in the same genre (W101 is definitely whatever "character action" is, I guess), and I don't really have a problem with that since they're pretty good at what they do. Does anyone really want to see them spending their time on a RPG or something?

 

[Artorias]

Vanquish was an awful shootbang/action demon baby

The fuck am I reading? I know some people completely misunderstood the game and played it like a cover shooter, but how on earth is it awful?

 

[Moon_frogger]

Alright, so what's your reasoning? I want to know the facts and details you're privy to that justify the smugness of your first post there. I don't want to remain oblivious. Thanks man.

Guess you didn't read my reply cause my reasoning was explained there. Sorry if I sound smug, it's not like I particularly like new devil may cry, just that I know the old universe won't be returning outside of some sort of small miracle. Again, if you want reasoning just go back and read my reply to your post, perhaps a little slower this time

As far as the prince of Persia game, cool I didn't know about that and I'm honestly suprised to hear about it. Still, not sure if that counts as it's not really a continuation of the original series but more of a prequel. Are there any other game series( or movies) that people know of that have been rebooted then had the original canon make a return? I'm honestly curious as I've never heard of it.

 

[Drakeon]

Gaf will crucify me, but DMC (Ninja Theory) 2 please. Not interested in the old franchise.

 

[IC_Champion]

I need this game to happen. Please, Capcom, just let Kamiya make Devil May Cry 5. It's a win-win for everyone.

I don't think that would happen; Capcom doesn't like partnering up with old employees/rivals.

 

[Net_Wrecker]

I only count two. MadWorld and Anarchy are /brawlers/, Vanquish was an awful shootbang/action demon baby, and I've yet to play TW101.

As much as I want Platinum to make more action games to get the easy mode bullshit out of our systems, for fuck's sake, I want them to do something else. Make an RPG. Make a sim. Make Anarchy Reigns 2.

I've also yet to play Revengeance (cause fuck Konami) but I hear that game is pretty damn good.

Play TW101.

And Vanquish was a great shootbang/action demon baby.

And I don't need RPGs or sim anything from Platinum. Plenty of other devs out there making that stuff.

Play MGR.

Also

I hate the phrase "character action game" that's also been popularized on here.

What a goddamn meaningless term.

They're all action games! Why the hell are we dividing a niche genre into even more narrow categories??

NEOGAF!!!

Because intricate combos and showing off and junk. That's what separates "character action" from beat-em-ups/brawlers. They're both "action," but sometimes you gotta get specific. I didn't create the term, STOP GETTING MAD AT ME

 

[Clawww]

What is the distinction?

I think that outside of Vanquish and maybe Anarchy Reigns, all of their games have been in the same genre (W101 is definitely whatever "character action" is, I guess), and I don't really have a problem with that since they're pretty good at what they do. Does anyone really want to see them spending their time on a RPG or something?

I sure don't. That doesn't make any fucking sense. They have a certain sensibility and style, and they have their strengths. Jumping into something completely different could be interesting, but I don't see why one would want platinum in particular to make a racer or some shit.

 

[BananasWithGuns]

Would prefer to see Ninja Theory get another go at the series with a DmC 2 as I thoroughly enjoyed the reboot but I'm sure Platinum would knock a DMC game out of the park given the opportunity.

 

[Retro_]

Because intricate combo and showing off and junk. That's what separates "character action" from beat-em-ups/brawlers. They're both action, but sometimes you gotta get specific.

I saw someone call Afro Samurai and X-Blades "Character action" the other day.

 

[J_Macgrady]

As much as I want this to happen, I just don't see it going down. It's time for us DMC stans to accept that this series is dead for the time being and if it does come back they may end up continuing the reboot series. I'm probably being extremely cynical, but I refuse to get my hopes up.

 

[Net_Wrecker]

I saw someone call Afro Samurai and X-Blades "Character action" the other day.

I mean, they could be. Just cause they're bad doesn't make them not part of the "sub-genre." I've never played em, so I don't know.

Basically if it's a melee focused action games that takes cues from DMC, it's a part of whatever you want to call that group.

Unless it's God of War because reasons.

Batman is another thing as well, and we need to name that system because it's starting to be hijacked now too.

 

[Retro_]

I mean, they could be. Just cause they're bad doesn't make them not part of the "sub-genre." I've never played em, so I don't know.

Basically if it's a melee focused action games that takes cues from DMC, it's a part of whatever you want to call that group.

Unless it's God of War because reasons.

Batman is another thing as well, and we need to name that system because it's starting to be hijacked now too.

It never ends...

 

[ViewtifulJC]

"action games" is about as descriptive as "RPG" these days.

 

[Sir Ilpalazzo]

Because intricate combos and showing off and junk. That's what separates "character action" from beat-em-ups/brawlers. They're both "action," but sometimes you gotta get specific. I didn't create the term, STOP GETTING MAD AT ME

Where does DMC1 fit in then? Is it in a different genre than its sequels? Combo-wise, it's comparable to Anarchy Reigns. On top of that Madworld and Anarchy Reigns have way more in common with Bayonetta and Metal Gear Rising than they do with beat-em-ups (assuming by "beat-em-ups" you mean "arcade-style games along the lines of Final Fight" and not just "2D games where you hit people").

 

[Clawww]

Guess you didn't read my reply cause my reasoning was explained there. Sorry if I sound smug, it's not like I particularly like new devil may cry, just that I know the old universe won't be returning outside of some sort of small miracle. Again, if you want reasoning just go back and read my reply to your post, perhaps a little slower this time

As far as the prince of Persia game, cool I didn't know about that and I'm honestly suprised to hear about it. Still, not sure if that counts as it's not really a continuation of the original series but more of a prequel. Are there any other game series( or movies) that people know of that have been rebooted then had the original canon make a return? I'm honestly curious as I've never heard of it.

Sorry, I didn't realize that 'rebranding is permanent' is what you meant when you were talking about common sense and logic. I thought would actually give me some reasons and logic, not just some random conjecture you personally believe to be true. I'm not even sure what you're getting at with the term 'rebrand'--why are you looking at it like some kind of permanent, irrefutable change? It doesn't seem so different from any other spin-off or side-series, which Capcom in particular has a history of doing.

DMC is a classic Capcom franchise. Making one new game based on that legacy doesn't forever block off new games based on the original series from being made. Whether it will happen or not is another story; but laughing at the idea of a DMC5 and calling people discussing it "sad" is stupid. Go away with that shit.

 

[JoeFenix]

This thread is entertaining, so many small skirmishes, I don't think anyone even knows what's going on anymore haha!

 

[Retro_]

Neogaf finally becomes what it hates

Capcpom

Creates meaningless genre titles for ever game that comes out.

"action games" is about as descriptive as "RPG" these days.

Which is exactly as descriptive as it needs to be really.

 

[Dahbomb]

Where does DMC1 fit in then? Is it in a different genre than its sequels? Combo-wise, it's comparable to Anarchy Reigns. On top of that Madworld and Anarchy Reigns have way more in common with Bayonetta and Metal Gear Rising than they do with beat-em-ups (assuming by "beat-em-ups" you mean "arcade-style games along the lines of Final Fight" and not just "2D games where you hit people").

DMC1 when it came out had the most advance combo system in a 3D game. You could juggle mid air enemies with hand guns and do even crazier stuff like keeping people in stun with Round Trip, swap to Ifrit in real time and charge up a move for more combos. It was basic but still beyond the scope of any other thing out at the time.

Ninja Gaiden did the same although a bit differently. It was more advance than DMC. And then DMC3 came, then Godhand, then Bayonetta, DMC4 and so on.

DMC3 was really the first action game which made set pieces, level design and enemy design IRRELEVANT because it's combat was so far ahead of its time. It was so good that you could've played the game in a vacant room filled with just polygonal enemies and it still would've been fun. Not to say that its level design and enemy design was trash... it's still infinite superior to what we got in DMC2 but most of that stuff is looked over when people talk about DMC3, it's all about the combat and more specifically the combos. It changed the way people thought about combos in an action game. You can never take that credit away from the game.

As far as this whole genre bull shit goes, I also don't get the whole "character action" genre as a label for these games. Of course action as a name is too broad as well. There's a clear difference between DmC and GTA for example.

 

[Net_Wrecker]

Where does DMC1 fit in then? Is it in a different genre than its sequels? Combo-wise, it's comparable to Anarchy Reigns. On top of that Madworld and Anarchy Reigns have way more in common with Bayonetta and Metal Gear Rising than they do with beat-em-ups (assuming by "beat-em-ups" you mean "arcade-style games along the lines of Final Fight" and not just "2D games where you hit people").

DMC1 is "Proto-Character Action." It got to the party first and picked the music playlist, but it didn't bring the alcohol or molly.

Mad World and Anarchy Reigns are "Modern Beat-Em-Ups/Brawlers." They take some elements from "Character Action" but aren't as complex/stylish, and lean more towards the old school design with interactive environments, weapons, etc.

Action Games™, serious business.

 

[Clawww]

I don't see the issue with someone specifying "character action" as a genre. If you don't like the term, you don't have to use it. But it's a useful term for some people. It sounds kind of silly, but who cares? What's the problem with trying to be specific or hone in on a particular kind of game that appeals to particular types of players?

 

[JoeFenix]

Creates meaningless genre titles for ever game that comes out.

I've always been a fan of made up genres.

"High Speed Robot Action"

"Tactical Espionage Action"

I think the concept art for 101 said "Mass Hero Action" or something.

In the end they're all just action games lol. It just sounds a bit more descriptive and cool!

 

[Retro_]

I don't see the issue with someone specifying "character action" as a genre. If you don't like the term, you don't have to use it. But it's a useful term for some people. It sounds kind of silly, but who cares? What's the problem with trying to be specific or hone in on a particular kind of game that appeals to particular types of players?

because there's no consensus

all it does is discourage people from playing a certain game outside of the label when everyone could have their own different, and possibly even opposite interpretations of what the term means. (I.E games like Sengoku Basara, and even God of War technically fit under the label, but are excluded from it for....reasons and aren't as well regarded because of it.)

Basically it's stupid.

but I mean you're right it's already caught on and people aren't going to stop using it so whatever.

As far as this whole genre bull shit goes, I also don't get the whole "character action" genre as a label for these games. Of course action as a name is too broad as well. There's a clear difference between DmC and GTA for example.

Those are the games that get their own label and it makes sense.

GTA got "open world"

Uncharted and Gears are TPS

I've never ever ever ever ever met someone who was confused when I described something as an action game. and if they are all I have to say is "like DMC" and then it's fixed

It's just weird as hell to me that we're making all these different smaller subcategories for niche games. Especially when the way we organize them into labels is by distinctions that only hardcore enthusiasts would know the difference between. (I.E the people informed enough to not need dumb labels)

 

[Dahbomb]

DMC was its own genre too, it was labeled by Kamiya as a "stlylish hard gothic action game".

 

[AcceptableGhost]

Keep in mind that Okami is "Nature Adventure", and Monster Hunter is "Hunting Action".

http://www.capcom.co.jp/ir/english/news/html/e090903.html

 

[JoeFenix]

DMC was its own genre too, it was labeled by Kamiya as a "stlylish hard gothic action game".

In a perfect world every game would be inspired enough to claim its own genre.

 

[Mr. X]

because there's no consensus

all it does is discourage people from playing a certain game outside of the label when everyone could have their own different, and possibly even opposite interpretations of what the term means. (I.E games like Sengoku Basara, and even God of War technically fit under the label, but are excluded from it for....reasons and aren't as well regarded because of it.)

Basically it's stupid.

but I mean you're right it's already caught on and people aren't going to stop using it so whatever.

There's a big enough difference that deserves to be acknowledged. It's like saying why distinguish between racing sims and arcadey racing games.

 

[DXLelouch153]

hope something comes out of this
we need the true DMC5 not that sorry excuse for an action game DmC

 

[Village]

.



Which is exactly as descriptive as it needs to be really.

Not att all, since most games are character action games.

Mario technically is a character action game, Halo is a character action game. By proxy of you playing a character and doing actions that harm other objects.

At least shooter and Platformer describe to some degree to something in the game.

Action games, litterally mean jack shit.

 

[ViewtifulJC]

I'm all for more descriptions. No more throwing Final Fantasy 6, Baldur's Gate 2, Kingdom Hearts 2, and Mass Effect 2 under the generic "RPG" banner.

Retro_ in the minority, as always