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KILLZONE 3 (3D), screenshots, video, info BLOWOUT

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M

MazingerDUDE

Member
Metalmurphy said:
What is the alpha buffer? And how are they calculating that?
Click to expand...


The alpha buffer is where the transparent objects are being rendered.

Rendering transparencies is probably the biggest known PS3 weakness due to RSX's low pixel fill rate and is one of the main reason for us to get gimped PS3 multi platform games.

(360's Xenos provides much higher pixel fill rate with help of EDRAM)

Hence, it has now become a common practice to render the alpha in quater or even lower res to save fill rate on PS3. (even in the Sony first party games)

When the low res alpha transparencies overlap with opaque geometry, it creates aliasing artifacts.



a0037809_4c1ac0d5b1e50.jpg


360 (full res alpha)


a0037809_4c1ac0e71e0ed.jpg


PS3 (quarter res alpha)


.

.
 
Stillmatic

Stillmatic

Member
MazingerDUDE said:
The alpha buffer is where the transparent objects are being rendered.

Rendering transparencies is probably the biggest known PS3 weakness due to RSX's low pixel fill rate and is one of the main reason for us to get gimped PS3 multi platform games.

(360's Xenos provides much higher pixel fill rate with help of EDRAM)

Hence, it has now become a common practice to render the alpha in quater or even lower res to save fill rate on PS3. (even in the Sony first party games)

When the low res alpha transparencies overlap with opaque geometry, it creates aliasing artifacts.

http://pds20.egloos.com/pds/201006/18/09/a0037809_4c1ac0d5b1e50.jpg

360 (full res alpha)


http://pds18.egloos.com/pds/201006/18/09/a0037809_4c1ac0e71e0ed.jpg

PS3 (quarter res alpha)
Click to expand...

Cheers for the info.

Is it that bad? I thought for eg in BC2, PS3 was handling transparencies much better than the 360 version?

edit: yeah here we go: http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-faceoff-battlefield-bad-company-2 Surely GG could come up with some magic tricks? :p
 
M

MazingerDUDE

Member
Stillmatic said:
Cheers for the info.

Is it that bad? I thought for eg in BC2, PS3 was handling transparencies much better than the 360 version?

edit: yeah here we go: http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-faceoff-battlefield-bad-company-2 Surely GG could come up with some magic tricks? :p
Click to expand...


BC2 is entirely different tech between two platforms.

The 360 version uses alpha to test for its alpha solution which creates dithering artifacts similar to the ones seen in FF13 (character's hair etc)

The PS3 version uses alpha to coverage where basically no transparencies being required.

My guess is that they use FP10 HDR format for 360 which comes with 2 bit alpha channel (R10 G10 B10 A2)

and they chose alpha test to deal with that 2 bit alpha most likely for the performance issue.

PS3 on the other hand, alpha free HDR format such as LOGLUV or RGBM is probably being used.

BTW, transparencies such as smoke, explosions etc don't count since they're not affected by HDR tone mapping.

.

.
 
Stillmatic

Stillmatic

Member
MazingerDUDE said:
BC2 is entirely different tech between two platforms.

The 360 version uses alpha to test for its alpha solution which creates dithering artifacts similar to the ones seen in FF13 (character's hair etc)

The PS3 version uses alpha to coverage where basically no transparencies being required.

My guess is that they use FP10 HDR format for 360 which comes with 2 bit alpha channel (R10 G10 B10 A2)

and they chose alpha test to deal with that 2 bit alpha most likely for the performance issue.

PS3 on the other hand, alpha free HDR format such as LOGLUV or RGBM is probably being used.

BTW, transparencies such as smoke, explosions etc don't count since they're not affected by HDR tone mapping.
Click to expand...

Awesome, thanks for the info. :)
 
J

jett

D-Member
Wow runs almost in SD in 3D. Just like the Avatar video game released last year. What was the point of the 3D firmware patch exactly?
 
B

beast786

Member
The controls are very much like BC2 . The turning still have a little bit of momentum, jumping still same. But game is faster and feels lighter.

If you played COD's. You wont have that much of an issue now.
 
KZObsessed

KZObsessed

Member
beast786 said:
The controls are very much like BC2 . The turning still have a little bit of momentum, jumping still same. But game is faster and feels lighter.

If you played COD's. You wont have that much of an issue now.
Click to expand...

How was the 3D?
 
B

beast786

Member
KZObsessed said:
How was the 3D?
Click to expand...


Personally. I thought MS:A had the best 3D.

Killzone 3 was right after that. Again, main emphasis was on depth. It makes you feel you are looking outside of the window. You do see bullets buzzing right at you, which was the best pop out experience. When you use the iron sight, thats also when you really appreaciate the depth. Also it really helps in throwing gernades because you can really judge the depth so much better.

I played both the 3D and regular demos multiple time.

One negative is obvious resolution.

I know for sure i will also play in 3D. But the way it is right now, i am exactly 50/50 as to which to play first. But I think by the time its launch time. I will probably will go with 3D.

BTW, the game looks freaking awesome. When you start to hear that first Helghast voice, i seriouly got goose bumps. You know how much I love killzone.

All the frame rate was solid. The part where you take down helghast on jetpacks, while you have yours is so freaking awesome. The AI is fantastic as always.

The running is like Assault class fast. You can slide into cover. The lean and peak still works. The recoil is also reduced a little bit.

Melee is very much more responsive than before. I dont know but with KZ2 i hate the melee, because of the weight and turning I always had issues with melee. Not anymore.
 
K

Kittonwy

Banned
KZObsessed said:
Can't believe they didn't showcase MS:A at the conference then. Sony make me scratch my head sometimes.
Click to expand...

Because they have to make room in the conference for stupid fucking Dead Space 2 and Tiger Woods.
Indifferent2.gif
 
B

beast786

Member
Kittonwy said:
Because they have to make room in the conference for stupid fucking Dead Space 2 and Tiger Woods.
Indifferent2.gif
Click to expand...


With GT5, Twisted Metal, MS.

It seems they thought MS already has been given the spot. It was time for the other two. I loved MS. On the floor it was only on 3D. Everyone I know was blew away. There is so much going on all round you its crazy.

It was like Burnout meet Split Secound meet Motorstorm.
 
B

BattleMonkey

Member
beast786 said:
The controls are very much like BC2 . The turning still have a little bit of momentum, jumping still same. But game is faster and feels lighter.

If you played COD's. You wont have that much of an issue now.
Click to expand...

That would be good, like BC2 feel. It has weight but not as overdone as KZ2 was.
 
mckmas8808

mckmas8808

Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
beast786 said:
With GT5, Twisted Metal, MS.

It seems they thought MS already has been given the spot. It was time for the other two. I loved MS. On the floor it was only on 3D. Everyone I know was blew away. There is so much going on all round you its crazy.

It was like Burnout meet Split Secound meet Motorstorm.
Click to expand...

That's great to hear about MS. How was the frame rate?
 
M

Madman

Member
jett said:
Wow runs almost in SD in 3D. Just like the Avatar video game released last year. What was the point of the 3D firmware patch exactly?
Click to expand...
To give Housemarque the chance to make SSHD even more awesome.
 
L

Lord Error

Insane For Sony
Is it now possible to toggle in/out of cover in single player?

MazingerDUDE said:
BC2 is entirely different tech between two platforms.
Click to expand...
Can you explain how games that use LOGLUV or RGBA for HDR render their 'regular' transparencies then (windows on building etc) couple of games that I can think of such as UC2 or GoW3 that use some variation or RGBA do have such transparencies in a lot of places.

Also now that they don't have to use MSAA, what's the point in using RGBA anymore? Can't they use the default hardware FP16 HDR now, and just apply MLAA at the rendered image as per usual? Is is still more performance or memory intensive?
 
M

Model 500

Member
I'm watching the Sony Press Conference right now and wow, the ocean visuals look amazing, that's the way to design and implement game locales! Anyways, I didn't like Killzone 2 that much, but I think I have to get this just for the eye candy, I hope I will enjoy the game too. Ok, a newbie question, I haven't been following this at all, but is the game compatible with the Move controller? I'd really like to play this with pointer controls!

EDIT: from the OP: *** PLAYSTATION MOVE SUPPORT (details incoming) ***

NICE! Day 1 confirmed :)
 
T

TTP

Have a fun! Enjoy!
Model 500 said:
I'm watching the Sony Press Conference right now and wow, the ocean visuals look amazing, that's the way to design and implement game locales! Anyways, I didn't like Killzone 2 that much, but I think I have to get this just for the eye candy, I hope I will enjoy the game too. Ok, a newbie question, I haven't been following this at all, but is the game compatible with the Move controller? I'd really like to play this with pointer controls!
Click to expand...

Yes, it's Move compatible.
 
X

X-Frame

Member
All this SP footage is great but I really can't wait until they start unveiling the MP details. I want to hear about the possibility of more guns, more classes, abilities, etc.
 
2

2real4tv

Member
MazingerDUDE said:
BC2 is entirely different tech between two platforms.

The 360 version uses alpha to test for its alpha solution which creates dithering artifacts similar to the ones seen in FF13 (character's hair etc)

The PS3 version uses alpha to coverage where basically no transparencies being required.

My guess is that they use FP10 HDR format for 360 which comes with 2 bit alpha channel (R10 G10 B10 A2)

and they chose alpha test to deal with that 2 bit alpha most likely for the performance issue.

PS3 on the other hand, alpha free HDR format such as LOGLUV or RGBM is probably being used.

BTW, transparencies such as smoke, explosions etc don't count since they're not affected by HDR tone mapping.

.

.
Click to expand...

Do you think KZ3 is using HDR this time?
 
2

2real4tv

Member
Lord Error said:
Is it now possible to toggle in/out of cover in single player?


Can you explain how games that use LOGLUV or RGBA for HDR render their 'regular' transparencies then (windows on building etc) couple of games that I can think of such as UC2 or GoW3 that use some variation or RGBA do have such transparencies in a lot of places.

Also now that they don't have to use MSAA, what's the point in using RGBA anymore? Can't they use the default hardware FP16 HDR now, and just apply MLAA at the rendered image as per usual? Is is still more performance or memory intensive?
Click to expand...

Good question

edit: Is their any game that uses FP16 on the ps3?
 
T

TTP

Have a fun! Enjoy!
2real4tv said:
I would like to see coop if not split screen at least online coop.
Click to expand...

Pretty sure coop will be there. Why else make Rico capable of reviving you? I understand this is official touted as a way to make Rico more useful, but I think it's a convenient "byproduct" of having the AI replacing the player using Rico.

Of course the question is: if there is indeed coop, who the hell will be willing to play as Rico? :lol
 
M

Massa

Member
Kittonwy said:
Because they have to make room in the conference for stupid fucking Dead Space 2 and Tiger Woods.
Indifferent2.gif
Click to expand...

Or because they thought it was better to have Kaz talking about how 3D is the future for 15min instead of just showing games proving that?
 
KZObsessed

KZObsessed

Member
TTP said:
Pretty sure coop will be there. Why else make Rico capable of reviving you? I understand this is official touted as a way to make Rico more useful, but I think it's a convenient "byproduct" of having the AI replacing the player using Rico.

Of course the question is: if there is indeed coop, who the hell will be willing to play as Rico? :lol
Click to expand...

You don't meet up with Rico until the fourth level, or at least that's what it sounded like the dev said in the gamespot walkthrough. So who do you play as before that? Natko? Would be awesome if the co-op partner changes characters.

But what about things like the jetpack section? Would Rico all of a sudden get a jetpack of his own? He's on the intruder while you're on the jetpack and you see that in a cutscene afterwards so I don't see that happening. So if someone plays as Rico when they split up, they basically have to create a separate gameplay section for co-op. Really don't see them being able to render two completely different areas at the same time so split screen is unlikely.

I'm betting on a separate co-op campaign and maybe an online only co-op through the SP. Hopefully the separate co-op campaign will have splitscreen/online. I love splitscreen.
 
A

Always-honest

Banned
jett said:
Wow runs almost in SD in 3D. Just like the Avatar video game released last year. What was the point of the 3D firmware patch exactly?
Click to expand...
well.. they still have that year. and i guess the resolution will be less of a problem in 3D. or.. i HOPe..
 
V

-viper-

Banned
Facism said:
Was Raist playing this lol

I'm hoping GG don't show everything before release. I also hope the MP doesn't become arcade peashooter supreme.
Click to expand...
ditto. the COD like controls are looking evident though.
 
K

Kittonwy

Banned
Massa said:
Or because they thought it was better to have Kaz talking about how 3D is the future for 15min instead of just showing games proving that?
Click to expand...

Kaz can talk about SONY's 3D initiative all he wants. It doesn't change the fact that EA showed the same shit in their press conference and this is a fucking gigantic waste of time.
 
KZObsessed

KZObsessed

Member
Kittonwy said:
Kaz can talk about SONY's 3D initiative all he wants. It doesn't change the fact that EA showed the same shit in their press conference and this is a fucking gigantic waste of time.
Click to expand...

I think the EA partnership was a good business move, counters Microsoft's Activision one and the exclusive content for the PS3 titles means they'll sell better but I agree with showing the same footage was a waste of time.

Should have shown The Last Guardian, Journey, demo'd Motorstorm in 3D and GT5 in 3D instead. They certainly didn't do a good job of showing how awesome their overall first party line up is compared to the other two.

Sony's first party + third party multiplats means PS3 has by far the best upcoming line up of games.

At least they seem to really be pushing KZ3 now. Last time they seemed more interested in giving Resistance 2 the spotlight for some strange reason.
 
N

Ninja-Matic

Banned
KZObsessed said:
g-bro smack talk? shut the fuck up :lol

I'm a fanboy? I'm not the one blindly going off the words of one of the devs and ignoring my own experience. We're talking about the firing of the ISA rifle above, not when using the sights. The amount of auto-aim when firing from the hip is massively increased in MP over the SP. That is a fact, anyone who has played the SP and MP will tell you the same, if they don't they're wrong/stupid.

I think you are misinterpreting/misunderstanding what Seb Downie has said, he may have been talking about another type of autoaim, I use the standard controls the way the game was meant to be played and when online you get most of your kills without going down the sights so that's what's important and it's the subject of this fucking discussion.

And let's not forget that Seb Downie was the man who said in an interview before KZ2 released that they were using dedicated servers. That was completely incorrect/lie. Take your pick. So even if he did claim that firing from the hip with the M82 had less recoil in MP, which I don't think he would have, he'd be wrong about another thing about the game. And you, his cock slobbering lacky would also be wrong.

Don't see what the big issue is, I just mentioned a simple fact about the auto-aim on a weapon when not aiming down the sights. I really should know better than to argue with retards about such inane things but there you go.



Sounds like a bug. Remember the hold to aim auto-aim exploit with the shotgun and the Helghast rifle in MP? The one they had to remove from MP in a patch as it was so bad? If your memory goes back that far of course...

And it's not in MP because the cover system isn't in MP :lol
Click to expand...

Blindly following? I was in 4 separate betas - the first only accessible to KZ_VIPs ;)

In the same regard - you're making comments about KZ3 "blindly following" what the devs have said *rolls eyes* and repeating them. Oh the hypocrisy, hahaha!

I'm also talking about AA as a whole - not for 1 weapon. I've played the game longer than everyone (not including GG) so I'm well aware of changes and NOPE i still don't see MP auto-aim as highr than SP.

The lock on is also not a bug and is a prime example of there being more AA in SP than MP.

This isn't rocket surgery "dad" hahahaha!

How you're not just following "simple and obvious" is beyond me.

But you're right - I must be retarded to listen to a dev and follow my experiences instead of a hypocrite like you, hahahaha.

Seriously - I made comments about AA and YOU attacked ME, personally, with hypocrisy and first. You're trying much too hard. Subtlety "dad". Hahahahahahahaha!

But that's OK - I forgive your hypocrisy and lack of rationale in a discussion because you like KZ and that's what we're here for bro.

Go drink a 40 and get back to me :)

I love you, man!
 
KZObsessed

KZObsessed

Member
Ninja-Matic said:
Blindly following? I was in 4 separate betas - the first only accessible to KZ_VIPs ;)

In the same regard - you're making comments about KZ3 "blindly following" what the devs have said *rolls eyes* and repeating them. Oh the hypocrisy, hahaha!

I'm also talking about AA as a whole - not for 1 weapon. I've played the game longer than everyone (not including GG) so I'm well aware of changes and NOPE i still don't see MP auto-aim as highr than SP.

The lock on is also not a bug and is a prime example of there being more AA in SP than MP.

This isn't rocket surgery "dad" hahahaha!

How you're not just following "simple and obvious" is beyond me.

But you're right - I must be retarded to listen to a dev and follow my experiences instead of a hypocrite like you, hahahaha.

Seriously - I made comments about AA and YOU attacked ME, personally, with hypocrisy and first. You're trying much too hard. Subtlety "dad". Hahahahahahahaha!

But that's OK - I forgive your hypocrisy and lack of rationale in a discussion because you like KZ and that's what we're here for bro.

Go drink a 40 and get back to me :)

I love you, man!
Click to expand...

If you were in 4 separate BETAs and can't tell what auto-aim is then no wonder how KZ2 turned out. Hopefully they'll never let you in another Beta again oh great "KZ VIP" If you have played the game more than anyone else (3000+hours) and still can't understand the mechaincs of the shooter than that's even more embarrassing.

Learn what the word hypocricy means. Just because I don't believe what some internet moron like you claims that one devs has said which is incorrect whom has been completely wrong before and yet I don't dismiss the words of every other GG dev isn't hypocrisy. It's common sense, something you clearly lack along with any kind of knowledge or intelligence.

If you want to come across seriously I'd learn the definition of words, learn how to apply them to different situations accurately, not use phrases like "rocket surgery" words such as "hahahahahahha" numerous times and "bro."

No one attacked you, I said you were wrong, which you are. And you hid behind some supposed comment that a dev said which you havn't provided any quote or context for and it's one of the devs who has been very wrong before. You also took offense to a completely inoffensive word "son" used in jest. You are clearly emotionally unstable.

Sorry son I don't love you back, I'm putting you up for adoption.
 
N

Ninja-Matic

Banned
KZObsessed said:
If you were in 4 separate BETAs and can't tell what auto-aim is then no wonder how KZ2 turned out. Hopefully they'll never let you in another Beta again oh great "KZ VIP" If you have played the game more than anyone else (3000+hours) and still can't understand the mechaincs of the shooter than that's even more embarrassing.

Learn what the word hypocricy means. Just because I don't believe what some internet moron like you claims that one devs has said which is incorrect whom has been completely wrong before and yet I don't dismiss the words of every other GG dev isn't hypocrisy. It's common sense, something you clearly lack along with any kind of knowledge or intelligence.

If you want to come across seriously I'd learn the definition of words, learn how to apply them to different situations accurately, not use phrases like "rocket surgery" words such as "hahahahahahha" numerous times and "bro."

No one attacked you, I said you were wrong, which you are. And you hid behind some supposed comment that a dev said which you havn't provided any quote or context for and it's one of the devs who has been very wrong before. You also took offense to a completely inoffensive word "son" used in jest. You are clearly emotionally unstable.

Sorry son I don't love you back, I'm putting you up for adoption.
Click to expand...

LOVE THIS!

You berate me for referring to devs comments but you do the same ... THEN you berate me for my vernacular after you called me "son"!! LOVE IT!

The hypocrisy is clearly evident and comical!

2 types of AA are at play, hard lock and soft lock - based off of movement of the reticle and firing of the weapon. I never said that one wasn't jacked while the other diminished. I merely stated that its toned down from SP.

And yes you did attack me. You used the word "son" as a derogatory statement.

You are just falling for every trap, aren't you? LOL

Give me more! I love this!!!!
 
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