Millionaire tries to get $829 via kickstarter to send daughter to RPG maker camp?

JBourne

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Jan 9, 2013
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Have any journalists (using that loosely) acknowledged the first two images in the OP? I'm completely mindfucked here. How can everyone just ignore all the evidence proving she's a scammer?
 

Muku

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Wow, entrepreneur but won't teach her kids anything. This was the perfect time to teach her how to run a small thing like a lemonade stand (and apparently about money). And at this point, I'd already learned about the value of money. Maybe I didn't FULLY understand it all, but my parents taught me young about it. And in the Kotaku article:

"According to Susan, that was when nine-year-old Kenzie, with no real concept of money, offered to pay for the camp herself."

So... you're a business woman, and haven't even taught your child the concept of money? Holy hell man. This would have been the PERFECT opportunity to do so. But now it's going to look like money just rolls in with the tide. Like money grows on trees or something. And for goodness sake, teach your daughter about money. Good grief.

EDIT: Also noticed discussion about this on TellTale Games forums.
 

inky

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This has gone to way beyond disgusting for everyone involved.

My only advice to you guys is pretty much do what I've been doing for a while now: avoid supporting those sites, and yes, that includes kickstarter. I have no more outrage or pity in me for anyone on this beyond this point.
 

Zaventem

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Jul 6, 2012
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Decided to take a peek again in this thread.. jesus fuck, that life case shit is fucking disgusting.Either these people fucked up and know it so they continue to back the project or put their money to anything with a feel good story.
 

Yagharek

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This has gone to way beyond disgusting for everyone involved.

My only advice to you guys is pretty much do what I've been doing for a while now: avoid supporting those sites, and yes, that includes kickstarter. I have no more outrage or pity in me for anyone on this beyond this point.
I've personally operated under the assumption that kickstarter was either shady to begin with or ripe for exploitation. Seems that both counts are true.
 
Jun 4, 2009
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Yeah, shit like this is why I will never support Kickstarter. This lady has been nothing short of brilliantly manipulative, and idiots eager to pat themselves on the back are more than happy to fall for her shit.
 

Yagharek

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Yeah, shit like this is why I will never support Kickstarter. This lady has been nothing short of brilliantly manipulative, and idiots eager to pat themselves on the back are more than happy to fall for her shit.
So long as they are giving away their money, fine by me.
 

Gully State

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Nov 11, 2007
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I'm still at awe with media taking Susan's side 100% without even considering the other side. It's as if they're taking this opportunity to try and stick it to the internet.
 

EmmanuelMunoz

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I'm still at awe with media taking Susan's side 100% without even considering the other side. It's as if they're taking this opportunity to try and stick it to the internet.
It's because you are a just another "troll"... I just wish she would have made a nice grand and ended the kickstarter. That way the girl could go to camp and she would not have gained all this buzz.
 

Zertez

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Jan 24, 2008
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What a roller coaster ride this story has been. The manipulation and exploitation of her family, the system, and KS while hiding behind gender inequality is sickening. I doubt she will lose much sleep over it, death threats aside. Even if she has to give back every penny, the infamy/fame she has gained is invaluable in the future.

A week ago, I never heard of her or her business ventures and Im sure the same can be said for countless people, but now she has access to a much larger network of people, that are capable of reaching a big audience quickly. Her next project is going to be under a microscope every step of the way, so I hope she thought things out well into the future or things will blow up in her face quickly.

Its sad this story has taken away from real issue women face with gender inequality and it is probably going to make things more difficult in the future. Its tough enough to get people to take the issues seriously, and even more so when people hide behind gender inequality to line their pockets or get their face in the spotlight. This isnt the first time and probably wont be the last time, someone uses this tactic, but Im surprised so many fall for it.

I think the most depressing thought, is she will have a bigger voice in the debate over gender inequality and runs a site that is suppose to help women. She probably considers this a win for herself and women, but I think everyone ended up losing.
 

MBison

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Aug 5, 2006
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Wow, entrepreneur but won't teach her kids anything. This was the perfect time to teach her how to run a small thing like a lemonade stand (and apparently about money). And at this point, I'd already learned about the value of money. Maybe I didn't FULLY understand it all, but my parents taught me young about it. And in the Kotaku article:

"According to Susan, that was when nine-year-old Kenzie, with no real concept of money, offered to pay for the camp herself."

So... you're a business woman, and haven't even taught your child the concept of money? Holy hell man. This would have been the PERFECT opportunity to do so. But now it's going to look like money just rolls in with the tide. Like money grows on trees or something. And for goodness sake, teach your daughter about money. Good grief.

EDIT: Also noticed discussion about this on TellTale Games forums.
Wait what, a 3rd grader, 9 year old, straight A student has no concept of money? This is a joke right?

My 9 year old straight A student 3rd grade daughter definitely has a concept of money. A very good one.
 

RpgN

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Yeah, shit like this is why I will never support Kickstarter. This lady has been nothing short of brilliantly manipulative, and idiots eager to pat themselves on the back are more than happy to fall for her shit.
The whole job of marketing(communication) and media is to manipulate people's behaviour, perception and money spending for own gain. This one sticks out more for using a fairly new opening where the service is still too fresh to effectively control everything and this kickstarter being run by one person with a terrible track record.

This example is pretty transparent where you can see how it's being shaped and manipulated and still have a mind of your own to decide wether it's a scam. It's easier to focus on a few examples instead of acknowledging this is how our system works. It's pretty depressing when trying to be honest about it.

Anyways, the last pages have hit a new low and it's a shame how it seems there's very little that can be done about it. It's not surprising how 'journalists' have been aiding this woman either.
 

Muku

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Wait what, a 3rd grader, 9 year old, straight A student has no concept of money? This is a joke right?

My 9 year old straight A student 3rd grade daughter definitely has a concept of money. A very good one.
Actually, don't they freaking teach money early on in like math portions of class and stuff? Now I think about it, I remember doing counting and other exercises with money. Now, I can't remember what grade that was in, but surely her child has had that training at this point.

I'm also curious as to whether Susan said her daughter had no real concept of money, the girl herself said that, or whether article writer is just making up bullshit. Before I was in third grade I was saving up for Lego sets.
Maybe that was my ultimate motivation.
I take it this girl has never saved for anything in her life and has always had it handed to her on a silver platter.
 

MBison

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Actually, don't they freaking teach money early on in like math portions of class and stuff? Now I think about it, I remember doing counting and other exercises with money. Now, I can't remember what grade that was in, but surely her child has had that training at this point.

I'm also curious as to whether Susan said her daughter had no real concept of money, the girl herself said that, or whether article writer is just making up bullshit. Before I was in third grade I was saving up for Lego sets.
Maybe that was my ultimate motivation.
I take it this girl has never saved for anything in her life and has always had it handed to her on a silver platter.
I think my daughter started learning about money in school in 2nd grade and certainly has a good concept about it from me.

The fact that quote is in there is just yet another red flag that doesn't read true.
 

moka

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Jan 24, 2013
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Hey, turns out she actually DID run an actual scam, instead of just blurring facts.

All the cool shit happens while I'm not here. In this case I was sleeping.

Anyway, popcorn.gif.

I just need to stop reading the KS comments...these supporters sound so damn programmed at this point...
I bet most people on KS are still supporting her because they've donated money to her so now they don't want to come off as fools.

I'm still at awe with media taking Susan's side 100% without even considering the other side. It's as if they're taking this opportunity to try and stick it to the internet.
They're slowly turning around, I think at first it was a case of ignorance and they just didn't research into the topic enough but now everything is a lot clearer, really.

"I don't care if it's truth of fiction. I don't want to have anything to do with a bunch of misogynistic men posting on a "Men's Rights" sub-reddit."

So yeah, nothing we ever will be able to say will touch most people because they think like that
Why should men have rights?!

Holy shit. Man, this just keeps getting crazier. Unbelievable.

She has been impersonating her daughter for at least two years online. The brothers have been "mean" to her online for at least two years.

Basically, she just lied to Kickstarter, Kotaku, CNET, Huffington Post, CBS and on. Straight up lied.
I think her slogan should be "She just kept on giving, and it wasn't even Christmas yet". I think I heard something like that on the Sims 3.0 thread.

Also, how do we know she has been impersonating her children? What if her children actually owned and posted on those accounts?

I posted a comment in the Kotaku article pointing how the Wilsons have tried exploiting crowdfunding before. What I got in return was "those aren't scams."

So I guess the Kotaku crowd just wants to believe Susan's lies.
Kotaku crowd don't know the facts yet like we do, point them to this thread or something. Everything will be clear.

Someone needs to make a document containing all the facts for journalists or something, like a press release. That's all they seem to read nowadays so we may as well.
 

foobarry81

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If you think it through, Susan Wilson is really a bad mother.

Originally her daughter was only bullied by her brothers, so she started a Kickstarter project.

Now, her daughter is bullied by the whole internet (at least, according to Kotaku, PA and the likes).

Talk about bad parenting to expose your kid to that! ;-)
 

moka

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Jan 24, 2013
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If you think it through, Susan Wilson is really a bad mother.

Originally her daughter was only bullied by her brothers, so she started a Kickstarter project.

Now, her daughter is bullied by the whole internet (at least, according to Kotaku, PA and the likes).

Talk about bad parenting to expose your kid to that! ;-)
It doesn't matter though because now she's getting money and getting bullied.
 

Synth_floyd

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Jun 12, 2005
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What a scammer. Using indiegogo to pre-sell some made in China piece of crap cell phone accessory. The amount she's selling it for though isn't really a scam. All that stuff has crazy high profit margins.

It's clear that when she says she's an "entrepreneur" it means she'll do anything, no matter how ethically dubious to make a buck. But in her defense, there are a ton of people in the business world who would do and actually do the exact same thing. It's just the culture of the business world. And taken to extremes leads to things like the credit crisis and derivitives.
 

Wolves Evolve

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I've read this entire thread and I still don't see anything wrong with what she's doing, apart from the old phone cover. Which is an elaborate unethical reselling scheme but not unique. Am I missing a bit?

And yes, I also automatically get repulsed by reddit men's rights culture. Nothing of worth has emerged from that milieu yet. So I have the tendency to take the other side.

She also offers to spend the excess in coordination with "reps" from 4chan and reddit though obviously that's not possible most of the time. Why is that not laudable?
 

moka

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Jan 24, 2013
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I've read this entire thread and I still don't see anything wrong with what she's doing, apart from the old phone cover. Which is an elaborate unethical reselling scheme but not unique. Am I missing a bit?

And yes, I also automatically get repulsed by reddit men's rights culture. Nothing of worth has emerged from that milieu yet. So I have the tendency to take the other side.

She also offers to spend the excess in coordination with "reps" from 4chan and reddit though obviously that's not possible most of the time. Why is that not laudable?
You must not have read the thread very well since she's clearly in violation of multiple Kickstarter and Twitter policies.
 

foobarry81

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Jun 10, 2004
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You must not have read the thread very well since she's clearly in violation of multiple Kickstarter and Twitter policies.
Cybersquatting is sort of illegal as well, you forgot about that. ;-)

She´s been trying to sell off fifty-shades domain names through Twitter.
 

Charoncaori

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Apr 26, 2011
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I've read this entire thread and I still don't see anything wrong with what she's doing, apart from the old phone cover. Which is an elaborate unethical reselling scheme but not unique. Am I missing a bit?

And yes, I also automatically get repulsed by reddit men's rights culture. Nothing of worth has emerged from that milieu yet. So I have the tendency to take the other side.

She also offers to spend the excess in coordination with "reps" from 4chan and reddit though obviously that's not possible most of the time. Why is that not laudable?
She's lying through her teeth about everything. We have no reason to believe that the story is true. She asked for money she didn't need. She keeps changing her story about what she wants to do with the money. She has tried to get crowdfunding for other shitty reasons by exploiting her family in the past. She almost definitely wrote all the messages from her daughter by herself. She runs some kind of women's philanthropy charity organization or something that she keeps promoting and probably takes all the money from that for herself, too.

You know the panhandlers in NYC who lie about needing money to feed their kids and then go home in a sports car? This is the internet equivalent.
 

foobarry81

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Well, since it seems like the 'journalists' have chosen their sides and don't plan on changing it and same with Kickstarter... the only other thing I can say about this is...


Well, you know, I think what we here at GAF fail to see, but what those journalists do see is that this woman is taking crowd funding to a whole new level.

Not only is she shamelessly exploiting potential backers´ sentiments about kids and gender issues, she´s also stepping away from the idea where you go to Kickstarter with an actual project and get funded for it.

Instead she came up with something so obviously lacking of serious content that the internet was all over it. Which allowed her to take it to the next step: CROWD THINKING, let the masses come up with a project for you. It´s genius if you think about it, because there´s even less effort involved for the project starter. And potential backers feel even more involved, because... well, it´s basically their idea.
 

maquiladora

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Jun 7, 2011
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Just reading her supporters comments on ks...

Omg Henrik does that phone case thing matter? A girl has decided to make a video game, an RPG mind you.. .. please, get out of the way.. let her do her thing.. god, what is wrong with you brother?.. do you steal candy from kids at halloween too? if the nine year old gets a hold of this project, the last thing any human will call it is a scam. you obviously do not make video games, nor have you really practiced that imaginative skill.. this girl can make video games.. and the world is willing to gamble a pretty penny to give her the absolute choice in every matter on the issue.. is there a "banish troll" button built into this game yet? it should be red, and would be brightly flashing PUSH ME..
....ugh
 

Zomba13

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Sep 27, 2009
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This whole thing just disappoints me.
I'm disappointed in the woman making this kick starter (and all her others) to get money.
Disappointed she actually did run a scam one (the one where she just sold already available phone cases and claimed she was developing them).
Disappointed in KickStarter for letting this actually go through when it's in violation of several ToS terms.
Disappointed in all the reporting going on about this that just looks at the KickStarter, thinks 'awwww' and then runs the story without even doing the bare minimum of research (though I shouldn't be surprised in the least really).
And disappointed she's getting away with this and ending up looking like a victim of internet bullying (thanks to the selective reporting of this).
 

Zertez

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Jan 24, 2008
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I've read this entire thread and I still don't see anything wrong with what she's doing, apart from the old phone cover. Which is an elaborate unethical reselling scheme but not unique. Am I missing a bit?

And yes, I also automatically get repulsed by reddit men's rights culture. Nothing of worth has emerged from that milieu yet. So I have the tendency to take the other side.

She also offers to spend the excess in coordination with "reps" from 4chan and reddit though obviously that's not possible most of the time. Why is that not laudable?
I guess it all depends on your personal view point of what is right and wrong. Is she wrong from a legal aspect? That is up to lawyers/judge to decide. Is she wrong breaking the rules listed on the KS page? Clearly she is, but then KS has refused to enforce their own rules. Is she morally wrong for exploiting/manipulating her family, KS, gender inequality, and the public? Only you can decide based on your own morals.

While I find it disgusting, many dont have a problem with her actions since it was successful and she appears remorseful after the fact and willing to "do good" with the money. Her actions lie in a gray area and only she knows her true intentions. It is all subjective and one of the reasons the story has created sides.

This whole thing wasnt a KS page thrown together by a 9yr old with some help from her mother, it was a well thought out plan with merchandise to go along with it. Her mother had an agenda built on top of her daughters dream. With a lot less effort, the project could have been success and avoided almost all of the drama/ill will, but that isnt the direction she took. She knew exactly what she was doing and she might not have expected it to blow up this big, but just the same she was hoping for a reaction good or bad from the public. She tweeted Ellen and Lady Gaga looking for press, she was fishing for much more than 900 dollars.
 

Pyramid head

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Jan 15, 2009
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I've read this entire thread and I still don't see anything wrong with what she's doing, apart from the old phone cover. Which is an elaborate unethical reselling scheme but not unique. Am I missing a bit?

And yes, I also automatically get repulsed by reddit men's rights culture. Nothing of worth has emerged from that milieu yet. So I have the tendency to take the other side.

She also offers to spend the excess in coordination with "reps" from 4chan and reddit though obviously that's not possible most of the time. Why is that not laudable?
I'm pretty sure she's said that she is paying for the course out of her own pocket, so there is no 'excess', it's the whole amount. Not that $829 out of £22K+ is a fraction worth making the distinction over anyway.

So what she has essentially done is fleece a huge amount of money from people without any sort of plan or idea of what to do with it, except for buying her kid a new laptop.

It makes my brain hurt to look at how the media has treated this.
 

foobarry81

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I'm pretty sure she's said that she is paying for the course out of her own pocket, so there is no 'excess', it's the whole amount. Not that $829 out of £22K+ is a fraction worth making the distinction over anyway.

So what she has essentially done is fleece a huge amount of money from people without any sort of plan or idea of what to do with it, except for buying her kid a new laptop.

It makes my brain hurt to look at how the media has treated this.
You troll you!

;-)
 

Kikujiro

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Sep 10, 2006
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The most disgusting thing about the whole story is not her, but the supposed "game/tech journalists". You can probably kill somebody and everyone will defend you as long as you pretend to be a little girl and talk about gender issue (hyperbole). Then we have Kickstarter that's allowing all of this despite going clearly against their TOS. She's shameless and have no ethics (my god that phone case), but the problem lies on the people who are allowing her to go on with her scams, "journalists" and Kickstarter.
 

Dictator93

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The most disgusting thing about the whole story is not her, but the supposed "game/tech journalists". You can probably kill somebody and everyone will defend you as long as you pretend to be a little girl and talk about gender issue (hyperbole). Then we have Kickstarter that's allowing all of this despite going clearly against their TOS. She's shameless and have no ethics (my god that phone case), but the problem lies on the people who are allowing her to go on with her scams, "journalists" and Kickstarter.
I can barely enter this thread anymore... I am actually feeling pretty disusted with this stuff.

Why does this seem so obvious to people in here... and is oblivious to everyone else?
 

semiconscious

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The most disgusting thing about the whole story is not her, but the supposed "game/tech journalists". You can probably kill somebody and everyone will defend you as long as you pretend to be a little girl and talk about gender issue (hyperbole). Then we have Kickstarter that's allowing all of this despite going clearly against their TOS. She's shameless and have no ethics (my god that phone case), but the problem lies on the people who are allowing her to go on with her scams, "journalists" and Kickstarter.
to the extent that the first step in promoting oneself is establishing a following, & if one fails to do this one goes absolutely nowhere, this is correct. she's the delusional naked empress modelling her 'new clothes'. they're the toadies actually admiring them :) ...
 

foobarry81

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I can barely enter this thread anymore... I am actually feeling pretty disusted with this stuff.

Why does this seem so obvious to people in here... and is oblivious to everyone else?
In here you have seen this thing growing and growing. Other people come in late and don´t bother to catch up with all that´s been exposed so far.

Also most people get informed by the bigger media outlets, which basically interviewed Susan and wrote whatever she said.
 

Pyramid head

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I can barely enter this thread anymore... I am actually feeling pretty disusted with this stuff.

Why does this seem so obvious to people in here... and is oblivious to everyone else?
The problem is people generally like to pick a side and stick to it, no mater what 'new shit' comes to light. In this case most people's first exposure to this story is from all of these sensationalist articles being written by 'journalists', which paint a very clear picture of 'the cowardly nerd hate mob sending death threats to a 9 year old girl'. Nothing else matters; people feel foolish when they have to change their minds over something, and people don't like feeling foolish, easier to just go with it.
 

Durante

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The most disgusting thing about the whole story is not her, but the supposed "game/tech journalists". You can probably kill somebody and everyone will defend you as long as you pretend to be a little girl and talk about gender issue (hyperbole). Then we have Kickstarter that's allowing all of this despite going clearly against their TOS. She's shameless and have no ethics (my god that phone case), but the problem lies on the people who are allowing her to go on with her scams, "journalists" and Kickstarter.
Pretty much. With a few exceptions, the media response to this has been outright disgusting. I didn't think it was possible to somehow lower my respect for most online tech/gaming blogs, but this has managed to do it.
 

Muku

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I take a few hour break and come back and am even more disgusted about this than when I left. How is that possible? It just keeps getting worse by the hour. Some recent comments on there are just gold.

@joseph - How do you even know that it's an actual the daughter and not Susan herself doing it. I mean have you seen this 'Wilson's Project' --- HELP Me Get These Kids Off Video Games & Hunting for REAL Treasure. --- http://www.indiegogo.com/projects/help-me-get-these-kids-off-video-games-hunting-for-real-treasure . If you look at the FUNDERS. The family themselves gave $255 towards this 2 year project with a 7 year old Makenzie (the little girl who wants to make RPG) giving 25$! You don't actually think this is a bit dubious?
The response to that was just beautiful.

@RC no I think its cute and are you going to continously ignore my question, is it because im right perhaps
It's... wait, what? They're baiting folks to contribute because they'd see other money there... and this joker thinks it is CUTE? Wow, folks will do ANYTHING to make themselves believe what they are doing is right. All I can say is at this point, they deserved to be fleeced. Then this lovely quote from Susan:

From this day forward, it's about making KENZIE'S GAME VISION a reality - which seems to mean we'll be hiring experts to help bc her vision and imagination clearly extend beyond her technical abilities.
Um, professionals? Yeah... okay, and when that runs over the money you got through KS, you going to try to go for round two because you don't want to spend your own money?

Also, must be extremely nice to just up an change what your KS is about. I don't think she's even really notified the backers on this, other than posting in the comment section, has she? Just wonderful.

This shit just blows my mind. Man, I've really got to lose my morals and be like this. I could easily get some things I've been wanting then. KS says it's okay now, so hell, why not.
 

semiconscious

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Pretty much. With a few exceptions, the media response to this has been outright disgusting. I didn't think it was possible to somehow lower my respect for most online tech/gaming blogs, but this has managed to do it.
to the extent this woman is so easily able to game the media, is it any surprise that far more skillful entities can as well?...

you could say this's an instance in which it's really not that big a deal, or all that important. or you could say that the tendency demonstrated here, to 'verify' something simply by discussing it with the 'source', is deeply revealing/disturbing...
 

Ephidel

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Setting aside, for a moment, any of the other things wrong with this project...
Wasn't the whole point supposedly to prove she could make a game to prove her brothers wrong? What is she, or anyone else, proving if they get some "experts" to do it for her because her vision "extends beyond her technical abilities"? Doesn't that undermine her own "cause"?
I mean, regardless of what they actually teach at RPG camp, surely the whole point of her going would be so that she can gain some technical abilities? :|
 

Bedlam

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Someone should set up a "I want to make a (nonspecific) game but I know nothing about development. Fund my courses, PC and dev tools!"-KS. Leave out all the pseudo-feminist "get woman in tech", "brothers are mean" etc. crap. Then let's see if KS takes it down. edit: And also flood twitter with the link to the KS.
 

Dictator93

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Someone should set up a "I want to make a (nonspecific) game but I know nothing about development. Fund my courses, PC and dev tools!"-KS. Leave out all the pseudo-feminist "get woman in tech", "brothers are mean" etc. crap. Then let's see if KS takes it down. edit: And also flood twitter with the link to the KS.
SOMEONE DO THIS IMMEDIATELY