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[Big-ass Ramp]

SoC was almost unplayable at that framerate, why people bring this up at Zelda threads?

it pops up in every zelda thread.

 

[Beth Cyra]

Terrible Frame rate and a gaint empty world = Art? Well in that case I agree I don't get it and I really don't want to. I am just glad that Miyamoto has said time and again that he doesn't believe games are art so hopefully I don't have to put up with art in the next Zelda.

 

[abstract alien]

Hey man if that is your thing then more power to you. I just find it crazy you pointed out a game that over and over agian people have claimed having a huge world but had nothing to do in it yet then you go and praise a game that has actually nothing in it at all except 12 boss fights and a fucking shitty frame rate that gave me headaches when nothing was even happening on screen.

So no I won't leave and I will call SoC the shit that it is.

Not trying to stray your opinion, but there was more to SotC than boss fights. I think the issue is that its adventuring had very little to do with the game itself, and although it added to both the gameplay and aurora of the story/atmosphere, it could be completely skipped altogether. Most were unaware of it to begin with.

 

[-COOLIO-]

i just wanna say that ww and tp were far too easy and that hurt my enjoyment of the games substantially.

though i still enjoyed them.

 

[Big-ass Ramp]

Terrible Frame rate and a gaint empty world = Art? Well in that case I agree I don't get it and I really don't want to. I am just glad that Miyamoto has said time and again that he doesn't believe games are art so hopefully I don't have to put up with art in the next Zelda.

I'm just kidding, guy. I do like SoC, but it's not for everyone. Don't get too worked up over it.

 

[Beth Cyra]

Not trying to stray your opinion, but there was more to SotC than boss fights. I think the issue is that its adventuring had very little to do with the game itself, and although it added to both the gameplay and aurora of the story/atmosphere, it could be completely skipped altogether. Most were unaware of it to begin.

I played through Shawdow, last year actually, and to me that is all that game was because that was the only decent part of it. Exploring the world was even worse then Twilight Princess because the frame rate was shit, the platforming was fucking terrible and as far as the story goes, yeah it the turn at the end was intresting, to bad I thought it was trite and dumb the whole way leading up to it and I didn't a give a shit if the bitch live or died.

So the plot twist at the end although like I said intresting by itself was completely lost on me because by the time I got to it I was happier I wouldn't have to put up with the damn game any longer.

 

[Big-ass Ramp]

i just wanna say that ww and tp were far too easy and that hurt my enjoyment of the games substantially.

though i still enjoyed them.

Windwaker kicked my ass, and it was too easy for you? Man, I feel dumb.

 

[TunaLover]

I'm just kidding, guy. I do like SoC, but it's not for everyone.

Defenitively not for people who thinks that the overal visual experience can be extremely damaged due a inestable framerate.

 

[Big-ass Ramp]

Defenitively not for people who thinks that the overal visual experience can be extremely damaged due a inestable framerate.

Granted, it has been a long time since I play SoC, but I honestly don't remember the frame rate being as bad you guys are making it out to be.

But, let's get back on topic here, folks.

 

[Beth Cyra]

Defenitively not for people who thinks that the overal visual experience can be extremely damaged due a inestable framerate.

Well I do have a problem with bad frame rates, and to be completely fair to Shawdow the game was designed with people with pretty much the oppiste taste that I have.

I prefer my platforming on 2D (Mega Man X 1-6) Or games that are long and have lots of cutscenes like Xenosaga. So Shawdow and I where pretty much born to hate one another.

So I guess I come across as a little harsh, but christ after years and years of hearing people praise this game finally playing it on my 60 Gig Ps3 drove me nuts because I hardly heard anything or at least very little about how hard that thing pushed PS2 and caused the Frame rate to be shit.

My bad for the derail, but come on you people would have linched me for saying I hope Zelda Wii is more like FF XIII and having it be a very straight line, narrative heavy experince which is what I would like to see Zelda try.

 

[abstract alien]

Windwaker kicked my ass, and it was too easy for you? Man, I feel dumb.

To be honest, I had trouble in sections of WW as well, and it was due to it being overly easy. There were far too many times where I would have the answer to something literally sitting right in front of me, but my mind would go into autopilot and start devising possibilities for an solution.

 

[HAL_Laboratory]

Zelda Party confirmed.

 

[Beth Cyra]

Zelda Party confirmed.

Actually I would prefer that over another Mario Party, hell have all the different types of Link's, Zelda's, and Ganadorf's playable. Be an improvement over seeing Mario, Peach and everyone again.

 

[one_kill]

its art. you wouldnt get it.

Art is subjective. To each their own.

 

[EatChildren]

My prediction is that to replace a lot of items and equipment the fairy girl will become a context sensitive and possibly upgradable 'tool' for completing puzzles. Rather than need to juggle items in and out of menus the fairy girl will give you the right one at the right time.

Yet despite essentially functioning the same way as normal items, only cutting out the menus, GAF will bitch it's too simple.

Its funny how many defences go up when the term 'accessible' is introduced, especially when you've got Super Mario Galaxy 2; a game that looks more difficult and varied than its predecessor, yet has Nintendo introducing far more accessibility mechanics.

 

[pakkit]

If you wanna talk about "accessible" Zeldas, check out Wind Waker with it's easy counter combat, lack of dungeons, and relatively bare overworld map.

And that game was good, real good.

 

[John Dunbar]

A bit off-topic, but since people talked about Shadow of the Colossus's frame rate, and I've often heard people talk about how awful it is, did all versions have this problem? I played the PAL version, and I can't say I was ever really bothered about the frame rate.

 

[Regulus Tera]

The framerate craziness in Shadow of the Colossus is like the slowdown in a Treasure game. It occurs when the awesome is too much for the console to handle.

 

[Big-ass Ramp]

Art is subjective. To each their own.

it was a joke. I promise.

 

[ntropy]

Defenitively not for people who thinks that the overal visual experience can be extremely damaged due a inestable framerate.

who knew a headache would ruin the experience!

 

[Jezan]

The problem with TP is that the UI is almost at the center of the screen blocking the view -_-

 

[Yoboman]

Yea but we don't want a game that reduces itself to linear and monotonous game design.

I'm not saying make it twelve bosses with no dungeons. I'm just saying simplicity =/= bad by any means

If it's SotC with dungeons and towns I'm all for it.

 

[Always-honest]

he's right as usual. just don't make it a simple game.

 

[Kandinsky]

I knew somebody would bring SoC sooner or later, after all every game is ripping things off of that game ever since it came out:lol

I just cant wait till the first show floor pics leak, this is going to be awesome

 

[Yoboman]

A bit off-topic, but since people talked about Shadow of the Colossus's frame rate, and I've often heard people talk about how awful it is, did all versions have this problem? I played the PAL version, and I can't say I was ever really bothered about the frame rate.

I can't remember it annoying me because I wasn't sensitive at all to frame rates when it came out. Plus the animation always seemed smooth enough to compensate

Zelda TP had it's own frame rate problems so I'm not sure why anyone would make that complaint in here

 

[Beth Cyra]

I can't remember it annoying me because I wasn't sensitive at all to frame rates when it came out. Plus the animation always seemed smooth enough to compensate

Zelda TP had it's own frame rate problems so I'm not sure why anyone would make that complaint in here

I only brought it up as to why I didn't like the game and didn't want Zelda Wii to be anything like SoC, and it is true as I said earlier I had a problem with the Frame rate but it probably wasn't as bad as I had made it out to be, or at least most people wouldn't think the problem with it was as bad as I did.

Still it think the Frame issues in SOC where worse in Twilight by a long shot.

 

[THE Caffeinated]

Link's crossbow training - On rails!

A bit off-topic, but since people talked about Shadow of the Colossus's frame rate, and I've often heard people talk about how awful it is, did all versions have this problem? I played the PAL version, and I can't say I was ever really bothered about the frame rate.

It's only awful/unplayable when you need to exaggerate a point to make your game look better. It does get pretty bad though...

 

[SimpleDesign]

I can't remember it annoying me because I wasn't sensitive at all to frame rates when it came out.

Same here, I only started noticing shit like frame rate drops, screen tearing and aliasing when I began reading video game forums. Wasn't even really aware of texture pop-in either, then again I always played on a SDTV.

 

[Beth Cyra]

Link's crossbow training - On rails!


It's only awful/unplayable when you need to exaggerate a point to make your game look better. It does get pretty bad though...

Thats some bullshit right there, I never said Shawdows Frame made it so the game was unplayable, so saying I did so to try and make TP look better is nonsense.

Not only that you go and at the end of your post say it did in fact get bad so whats the deal?

 

[farnham]

You want an Aonuma game where Miyamoto has no part in it? You got it! It's called Phantom Hourglass.

which is a great game..? what is your point?

 

[PepsimanVsJoe]

SOTC's framerate tends to go to shit when the dude's holding onto something while the Colossus flips the fuck out. Doesn't effect the game so it doesn't bother me.

Zelda is cool too.

 

[xs_mini_neo]

This. I just wish he would leave Aonuma alone.

He did for TP and Aonuma gave us wolf Link. lulz

Miyamoto had the idea of suggesting spherical worlds. However, the idea of gravity and space and physics are not his to contribute. The original basis of Super Mario Galaxy probably came from the Super Mario 128 Demo at Space World 2000, which was incidentally programmed by Keizo Ota and designed by Yoshiaki Koizumi. Maybe Miyamoto said, hey that looked cool can you guys make a game out of that. The team may have said.. well we are not sure. But bang.. after 2 years of hard development, EAD Tokyo makes something magical.

Miyamoto is a genius?

Fail. Yoshi's island had a spherical world in one stage. That came out in 1995.

Another Zelda thread, another GAF overreaction.

Aonuma is the reason Zelda is in the shithole right now.

As an example, the trains in Spirit Tracks are Aonuma's son's fault.

lol Should've gone with my blimp 'idea' instead. At least then there'd be a reason why Link could not walk around.

Sky and all that, ya know.

Spoiler

Cloud Waker, amirite

Me >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Aonuma & son.

 

[selig]

Sorry guys, this bloated franchise does need trimming down big time

Like seriously what the fuck is that? Everything in this image is wrong. The HUD, the weapons. Zelda is over complicated. Fucking carrot sticks when riding a horse and shit, come on.

Give me a sword, shield and a bow and send me on my adventure. Don't think that's enough for a compelling game? Try Shadow of the Colossus.

:lol
You had me agreeing until the last sentence, which is the most wrong thing I read this week on gaf. Worst example for proving what you said in the sentence before, which I really agree with. But SotC wasnt compelling. It´s an overrated game.

SoC was almost unplayable at that framerate, why people bring this up at Zelda threads?

Some think it´s similar to Zelda. Maybe some basic mechanics are, but SotC´s content is like 5% of a Zelda-game. You could as well say "Zelda should be more like House of the Dead, now THAT is great aiming!"

 

[Vizion28]

Zelda Wii will utilize the vitality sensor in such an ingenius and creative way, beyond the scope of video game forum poster's limited imagination, that it will revolutionize video games forever.

Bring it on Miyamoto, you genius you.

 

[Sadist]

Can't wait till E3.

 

[tpfkanep]

Good news... I am cautiously optimistic, as Zelda (esp after the last outing) needs a reboot/refresh. I am prepared for anything new that will surprise me and instill awe and wonder. Less story (doesn't look like it) and more exploration in unique ways.

Bring it on Miyamoto!

 

[Ushojax]

:lol The manchildren having a hissy fit as usual. Miyamoto has said the controls and presentation need to be more accessible, and he's right. Why are people so afraid of making games easier to get into? Would half of us even be playing games if Super Mario Bros had an hour long tutorial or a controller layout diagram like most modern games? Making a game accessible is just good game design.

 

[meppi]

:lol
You had me agreeing until the last sentence, which is the most wrong thing I read this week on gaf. Worst example for proving what you said in the sentence before, which I really agree with. But SotC wasnt compelling. It´s an overrated game.

And with that you immediately invalidated your on comment.

 

[Jocchan]

He's right. The franchise needs fresh ideas and needs to get rid of useless complexity.

:lol The manchildren having a hissy fit as usual. Miyamoto has said the controls and presentation need to be more accessible, and he's right. Why are people so afraid of making games easier to get into? Would half of us even be playing games if Super Mario Bros had an hour long tutorial or a controller layout diagram like most modern games? Making a game accessible is just good game design.

Bubububu casualization!!!!!111!1!
They probably have no idea Miyamoto is the one who insisted to make Super Mario Galaxy 1 and (especially) 2 harder. Zelda to become a non-game for soccer moms am confirmed.

 

[Chris R]

Too complicated maybe. Too easy? DAMN STRAIGHT.

 

[EatChildren]

:lol The manchildren having a hissy fit as usual. Miyamoto has said the controls and presentation need to be more accessible, and he's right. Why are people so afraid of making games easier to get into? Would half of us even be playing games if Super Mario Bros had an hour long tutorial or a controller layout diagram like most modern games? Making a game accessible is just good game design.

Its probably the same group of people who are deluded into thinking that spreadsheets, hundreds of menus, having to travel 10 - 15 minutes (real time) to any location, and pressing a ton of button combinations to achieve anything equates to deep gameplay.

 

[Diffense]

Amen.

I hope by simpler they mean more action and exploration.

Wii motion+ will make archery, sword play, hammer, fishing, and canouing/sailing a whole lot smoother. I'm definitely excited.

I'm more concerned about the presentation. I wasn't big on Twilight Princess, it was a few years two late. Everything feels so perfectly laid out, the world feels fake.

That was my biggest problem with it actually.
It was a great game and the dungeon design was excellent.

However, the world itself, while large, just felt sterile to me.
I used to play Zelda: OoT, just to spend some time in Hyrule.
With TP, if I didn't have one of it's excellent dungeons to complete, I didn't play it.

Fairies from butterflies with a deku stick, using the song of storms to grow a seed or fixing a sign with a song....
I dunno, those little touches made OoT's Hyrule feel like a world with its own rules not just a stage for me to beat Gannondorf.

Majora's Mask then took the creation of a living world to a whole new level so both tWW and TP were falling from an ideal.
I guess the thing about TP is that it was so much like OoT in structure and style but so unlike it in spirit.
tWW didn't get me to care as much about Hyrule since it was mostly a barren wasteland anyway.
I still remember everyone partying in OoT and MM's credits but I'm struggling to remember TP's credits.

Nontheless, every Zelda ranks among the best games I play each generation.
So I'm really looking forward to the next one and I hope it recaptures that difficult to define magic.

 

[Oblivion]

This is a meaningless quote anyhow. Simplifying controls are the least of Zelda's problems imo.

What. I mean. I'm an amateur Nintendo historian. I really don't feel that is true. There is a lot of different Nintendo talent, some run under Miyamoto, some not. But I feel like you have to give credit where it is truly mandated. Yoshiaki Koizumi and the entire EAD Tokyo Staff is genius.

If Miyamoto was the genius, then he would draw even because he was involved in Wii Music right? Or do we only say Miyamoto is involved when a specific team makes an awesome piece of software.

Well, I'm one of those people that that admires Miyamoto, but doesn't think he's infallible, so yes, I would like to blame him for SMG as well as Wii Music.

(though, reading the interviews, it seems for Wii Music, it wasn't even Miyamoto that came up with the idea of letting the user play without making any mistakes, which was supposed to be the main bullet point for the game. But whatevs)

i would be much more interested to hear if the concept of moving the series into space and segmenting parts of challenges into planetoids was his as well. more than the spherical worlds, the ability to be untethered to central theme or design restrictions when maximizing platforming goodness is the real revelation of mario galaxy for me.

Miyamoto:
Right. There was no other game before Mario 64, where you were able to truly move around freely in a 3D environment.
It was great just being able to move Mario to find a star. But these days, there’s nothing new about a game being in 3D.
So in making Super Mario Galaxy, I thought about what is the distinct characteristic of the world of 3D Mario. This is actually something different from things like the storyline.

Iwata:
That’s right.

Miyamoto:
So what I had come up with, was gravity.
Gravity was used a lot in old movies, with things like being able to walk upside-down on the ceiling.
But if you think about it, nobody was really able to do that before in real life, and I though it would be great if I were able to recreate that in a game. People would be able to have a new experience, and it would be so much fun being able to play around in that kind of an environment.
But when I told that to the staff, they became worried, and asked me "Can we really call something like that a game?" So I told them, that if I were to make a game that was not fun, I would much rather make something that was not a game, but everyone would find a lot of fun! (laughs)

Like a Vaudevillian6 in the olden days, I have an image in my mind where Mario is that kind of character that is this dapper, middle-aged man performing a lot of wonderful things in front of our eyes.
But at the same time I think that, I don’t think Mario is just some ordinary guy, and I wanted to make him cooler. That’s when the name "Super Mario Galaxy" had popped up, and when I heard this title, I felt a spherical field, gravity and galaxy were a perfect match for this. But that idea was objected by the staff.

Seems safe to say, yeah.

What? Miyamoto was equally "involved" in Wind Waker and Twilight Princess. How ever you want to equate that involvement is up to you. But it isn't any more or any less.

If there is any Zelda, Miyamoto was least involved with, it was Majora's Mask. But in your anti-Aonuma sentiment, you don't want to give Aonuma credit for tha one? He was the damn director!! What radical design was Miyamoto responsible for in Ocarina of Time? It is a standard Zelda in 3D with awesome dungeon designs. The dungeons which were designed by Aonuma and Koizumi. Two of the most talented guys at EAD.

All right bro, I gotta tell ya, for someone that knows as much about Nintendo's inner workings and history as you do, I'm always just a little bit surprised when you happen to get simple information like this wrong.

Your first comment about about Miyamoto's level of involvement is factually incorrect. Miyamoto hasn't worked on a Zelda game in the same manner of Ocarina since..well, Ocarina. Aonuma was the director of MM, WW and TP. Yes, yes Miyamoto is listed as producer for OoT, but it has been well documented in several interviews (many with fricken Aonuma himself) that Miyamoto's role on that game was closer to that of the lead director. And Koizumi didn't design the dungeons in OoT. Heck, his title even clearly states 3D Sytem director.

GameSpy: My understanding is that during the last days of the creation of Ocarina of Time, Mr. Miyamoto was taken off the project.

Aonuma: It was the opposite. At the beginning of the project, his attitude was "Okay, guys, I will let you go ahead and make this game." At some point, he said, "No, no. I've got to get in here." He jumped in and took control of the direction. It was not him beginning then leaving, it was him watching and then taking over the reins.

I think maybe we were moving a bit slow for him. Obviously, Mr. Miyamoto had a large passion for Ocarina of Time. He could not hold back anymore. He jumped in and started giving direction.

GameSpy: Was Majora's Mask the first game for which you served as director?

Aonuma: I directed the development of enemies and dungeons for Ocarina of Time. But for overall direction, Majora was my first.

Aonuma:
All right. Our first 3D The Legend of Zelda game for the N64 turned out to be The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time. I did some direction on that one, although it was only partial: I was in charge of dungeon design.

Iwata:
Somehow, I had the impression that you'd been overseeing everything since Ocarina of Time, Aonuma-san. Now that I think about it, I guess that wasn't the case.

Aonuma:
Absolutely not. I managed to stay out of the line of fire most of the time back then. (laughs)

This time around I'm not actually director of the game, I'm the producer. Mr. Eiji Aonuma sitting here to my right is the director. It's actually nice to be able to sit as producer on this game. I've been working with Mr. Aonuma since the Ocarina of Time. On Majora's Mask he was pretty much independent in moving that project along. So it's been very easy for me as producer on this game as well as Majora. As a producer, there are a few different types of roles I play. One of them is getting involved early on and being involved in meetings to decide direction. Then the type of work that I do is to really get involved later on in development, involving myself in the fine tuning and helping to make changes for improvement. This time around it was actually quite easy -- a lot of meetings were held throughout development and we didn't have a whole lot of changes to the game spec. In the end, it wasn't so much me coming in and having to change things around, so much as it was just me being there to give input and make sure the quality was there. It was easy for me in that sense. For me personally it's been great because it's given me a different flavor of development rather than creating everything myself. It's also given me some insight into other aspects of development that I didn't have a chance to see up until then.

I also recommend reading this interview all the way through.

http://www.thehylia.com/index.php?subaction=showfull&id=1227242511

Let's be clear here, though. I certainly don't want to take away credit from other people involved in the games. Miyamoto simply by his reputation gets credit for a lot of things that he didn't have much to do with. Of course, at the same time, that doesn't negate giving credit where credit is due.

 

[SonOfABeep]

I hope he understands that Zelda is not too complicated, it's like a ball of candy that has rolled down the candy hill and picked up every peice of candy along the way until it has started to destroy people under its weight.

There is a core mechanic and design to zelda that has merit, but they need to stop carrying every iteration's addition along into the next one and make one that feels completely fresh rather than just the outer layer being fresh.

 

[RagnarokX]

Let's be clear here, though. I certainly don't want to take away credit from other people involved in the games. Miyamoto simply by his reputation gets credit for a lot of things that he didn't have much to do with. Of course, at the same time, that doesn't negate giving credit where credit is due.

I think the best example of Miyamoto still being a positive influence in games is the interview where he told a story about how he was displeased with Mario having too much health and too many coins available to refill it in SMG, so he made EAD reduce how many hits Mario could take. EAD thought Miyamoto was making the game too hard.

 

[Mato]

Was there new Zelda art shown ? Where can I see?

 

[abstract alien]

I believe this is being referred to:

 

[Mato]

Oh right, that's rather lame really.

 

[Wazzim]

Who cares, Nintendo fans will love it anyway, the NES Zelda wasn't comlicated but people still liked it.

 

[Sir Johnny]

Just out of curiosity, how many Zeldas until now have employed the plot outline of "Link, hero-soon-to-be-recognized-as, journeys the world with a weirdo female sidekick which turns out being a princess of some sort (a princess, princess, PRINCESS, no other woman holds enough social importance to be selected for the supporting role, a policy of Hyrule's which defies the passing of millennia, apparently), and spends a notable amount of hours to gain Link's and ours affection, just to be puntually rejected in favor of "puf, 10 minute total screen time Zelda" and be forgotten forever as the ending screen wraps up the story?
I hope it will not be the case this time.
By the way, I find this girl as sexy as the piece of metal she is supposed to represent.