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New York bombing: Ahmad Khan Rahami IDed as suspect (Up: Arrested)
- Thread starter GusBus
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Deleted member 80556
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Audioboxer
Member
Of who? Extremists? Not really. I don't tend to approach these conversations with feelings of being scared, more so just wanting an open and honest dialogue of things going on in the world. Dealing with facts and dealing with reality, especially when innocents have died or been maimed/abused/raped/etc.
I don't know if anyone can be truly scared unless they are witness to an attack. At least I like to try and live by the motto to give into fear is to give into terrorism. So if that is what you are asking me by your definition of scared, no, I don't get scared of Muslims, or flying on a plane or going on the London tube/busses or attending large public events. Life is too short to be scared of terrorism and yes 99.9% of people you interact with from now until the day you die are nothing to be scared of.
The number one thing about terror isnt just the acts of violence its the conditioning of people to make them hyper aware on alert and make them overreact to these acts. Then they pretty much have control over people or a nation becauae of how afraid they are now. Even in failure terror wins if they get as far as placing bombs etc. Thats why prevention and working with communities and not excluding them is the most powerful tool in thwarting radical people.
You just wont talk to them or go into their religious buildings despite talking a big game about it though? Maybe if you knew some Muslims and didn't act like you are above it all you would actually learn something.
RustyNails
Member
I'm pretty sure the Crusades, Inquisition and the destruction of Native Americans all happened under the peaceful garb of New Testament. They were only spreading love!
Sectorseven
Member
Honest question: Why would terrorists want Trump as president over Hillary?
Audioboxer
Member
Are you reading what you write?
Talk to them? Why are you categorizing a whole mass of religious people as some other from me? Isn't that what you are trying and failing to nail me for? (as its not what I've done at all, say everyone is somehow "x").
To answer your rather poor ridicule of me, no shit I've spoken to Muslims. As it is the most predominant religion on earth it gets quite hard not to interact with Muslims in day to day life. You know what as well, many I might not even have known they were Muslim as 99.9% of my daily interactions with others have nothing to do with religion or personal beliefs.
As for going to a Mosque, I mean, it's not as if I wouldn't, but I've had no reason to. I don't randomly visit Churches either just FYI.
The major point is it's all largely history now. History that will never be forgotten, but not current day events playing out now that will be part of our history on our life from 0 to 70/80/90 and the grave (hoping most of us manage to live to a nice old age). What's happening now will be our history.
Having a cartoonish enemy who routinely disparages 2 billion people makes recruitment very easy.
ReplacementPelican
Member
Because he's more likely to send ground forces into Syria and Iraq and at the very least bomb those positions which is a recruitment drive for them. As would be him banning Muslims. They like anything that makes Muslims feel scared and hated.
He supports their rhetoric of downtrodden. The world hates them, they have to fight back etc.
My post is deviating off topic, but I really don't care. As a Christian, stuff like this bothers me because it is only presenting half the picture. The very next verse after the one you quoted says for husbands to love their wives and not be harsh. It would be great if all the New Testament verses where husbands are to respect and honor their wives was included as well, and that husbands are to emulate with their wife Christ's love for the church and how gave Himself up for her.
Husbands and wives are to essentially to submit to each other, and there is no free pass for husbands to be abusive, controlling, or demanding. Submission in this context does not mean to become a slave of or anything along those lines.
EdibleKnife
Member
Trump: *bans all Muslims. Makes their lives hell in the US under his presidency*
Radical Islamists: *Welcomes those burned under Trump's Christian nation with open arms*
Night Angel
Member
It's not necessarily legitimate criticism I want to discuss at this exact moment, it's a larger conversation that has been largely shut down due to immediate labeling as bigoted, racist, or, as seen just above my last post, a prejudiced asshole. It's not necessarily this exact moment in which the conversation needs to take place (a discussion maybe analysing the regressive sections of the doctrine like equal rights, something common to many religions), but the trend of people immediately attempting to cut off any possible inspection of what in the religion leads to these and other kinds of issues is not something I agree with.
I don't know what I want others to talk about on the first page; there's a wide range of discussion to have. However, praying that the attacker was a white Christian guy just to score points against Trump isn't it, so I criticise.
It sucks that events like this lead to people thinking Muslims as a whole are a problem. Idiots like Trump validate those feelings in a lot of people and further fan the flames, which also sucks. Most of this comes from ignorance and fear. I think more open discussion on the religion, both its strengths and weaknesses, would help educate these people and potentially improve the current anti-Islamic sentiment in the country (obviously this discussion would need to take place in all forms of media). That may be optimistic, but all shutting down the discussion is going to do is keep the bigots where they are.
I'm just going to leave you stewing in your own ignorance and paranoia then as it seems you now want to play the semantics game about generalizations.
http://cspipublishing.com/statistical/charts.html#Bible
So the reason that there has been controversy with the statistical analysis that has been linked by someone else is that it doesn't differentiate between historical violence (which the Old Testament and New Testament are full of) and political violence, or rather, a call to violence in the name of your religion e.g. violence against apostates or non-believers.
Again- I am not claiming one Religion is more/less violent than another, simply that there is objectively more of it found in the Quran and Hadith than any of the Abrahamic texts.
EatinOlives
Member
Terrorists, like Trump, thrive on a culture of fear and paranoia. Every time a government does or says something to marginalize Muslims, their extremists see it as a victory. They WANT a schism so that they can brainwash people to their views and "solutions". An influential political figurehead that constantly shits on people over the course of several years is far more likely to create extremists than someone with a far more measured response and doesn't seek to make sweeping generalizations.
Trump is perfect for Islamic extremists. He sells their cause amazingly well, because they tell their recruits "they hate us! They want to kill us! They're plotting!" and if they tune into CNN and hear "did you know that Trump says that Muslims hate us, they want to kill us, that they're plotting!?!" it proves them right.
Because terrorists want to spread hate, fear and intolerance. Trump spreads hate, fear and intolerance. They want people like Trump in positions of power so that more hate is bred. They want to make this a battle between Islam and the west instead of a battle against terrorism. A president Trump saying inflammatory things, implementing racial profiling, banning an entire religion and literally building a wall to keep people out plays right into what they want to achieve; division. Division and anti-muslim sentiment make it easier for them to radicalize new recruits because they can just point to the president and say; "Look at that man; he holds the highest office in your country and he thinks you have no rights! He hates you for who you are! He wants to ban your religion! Your neighbours probably voted for this man!" Etc. Etc.
Just admit you were fucking wrong. Stop moving goal posts.
-Plasma Reus-
Service guarantees member status
This is an incredible system. US surveillance is amazing.
Night Angel
Member
Sorry, do you have me confused for someone else? The hell is a Telford text and when did I talk about them?
PlayALLtheGames
Banned
Because they know how easily Trump would be riled up and could be persuaded into more military engagements abroad. Meanwhile his rhetoric and potential legislative actions in the U.S. would help them recruit.
Anyone who thinks Trump is good for decreasing terrorism and the spread of extreme ideologies is 100% wrong.
Now, I'm not saying this is what happened here, but yes, logically, extremists want someone like Trump at the helm.
From the point of view of extremists, what they want, is a holy war. West vs Muslims. Christianity and Judaism vs Muslims.
They also want to recruit as many religiously minded as possible, even moderates if possible.
The only way this happens is if you have a President (and Congress) willing to demonize an entire religion, and literally go to war with it, while segregating/ persecuting that faith in their homeland.
The more persecution, the more the moderates will side with extremists, and the extremists will look like Holy warriors, justified in their atrocities.
No chance of winning you say? Extremists not only do not care about dying for their cause and even relish it (the real ones that is), they deeply believe that God will eventually make them victorious, no matter the odds.
So .... knowing that, yeah. Trump is the man.
It was auto corrected. It was supposed to read religious texts. Don't be so obtuse as you were painting with a broad brush on the manner.
I have very low tolerance for people who cant admit they were wrong. Even the site you found is not even an academic University study or source and since it took you that long to find remotely anything to attempt to support your bigoted claim is enough to say you know you are wrong but its hard for you to understand that you are wrong. So how about you go buy a koran read it all, then read the bible and compare the two and just talking old vs new is silly as hell they are all the bible.
Well you did move the goal posts so he isn't wrong.
Holy shit
Audioboxer
Member
Calling another GAFer a prejudiced asshole and me ignorant and paranoid does absolutely nothing to address victims of terrorism/violence and promote open and honest discussions about religious intolerance (even if you want to argue it is small sects using a holy books verses literally instead of metaphorically). I mean I wonder if when the crusades were going on people of the day back then were berating their children and friends for criticising those killing in the name of the Bible? We'll never know. It just feeds into your own ego to go away feeling good that you've seemingly won a debate against two people you don't agree with, and put us ignorant folks in our place.
That is a shame, but it's the kind of behaviour that is very rampant right now on the regressive left. Just note it is partly one reason the monster that is Donald Trump is on the cusp of the American presidency. You create such a void in the public sphere with the ability to call a spade a spade and be honest and critical, then right wing nutjobs jump at the chance to get in there whilst the left is too busy policing itself and making up new buzzwards to call it's own people.
Because Trump gives them what they want, the end of the American Dream and would become a civil rights nightmare exposing the lies of truth justice and the american way.
Not only that, Trump is inept and would crumble under real issues and having to deal with day to day threats and dealings with other countries and would alienate America from other countries and allies.
EatinOlives
Member
I'm asking because you came in chastising people for not having what you consider to be the "right" conversation, but don't actually articulate what you want that conversation to be. You criticized people's timing in not wanting this guy to be Muslim, but don't know what they should be doing instead.
I mean I understand that that an open dialogue about religion on a more consistent basis is likely to result in less FUD being spread regularly, but I guess I just don't know how going into a thread and smugly proclaiming "well I guess sooooorrryyy guys who didn't want this guy to be Muslim. Guess reality proved YOU wrong!!" is supposed to facilitate that conversation?
Slurpy2k20
Member
Yes, you did claim that. But keep muddying things.
Also, to answer your previous Q, the reason that people were wishing that this wasn't an arab/muslim is exactly because of people like you, who then take the opportunity to smear millions of other Muslims and cause more suffering to innocent people. If this was a white person, not a single other white person would suffer. When it is a Muslim, beyond the original victims, ALL Muslims in the US suffer to some extent or another because of this kind of baseless, false associations and demonization.
Gordon Shumway
Banned
Great news! Speedy recovery to the officer shot by this fuck..
Im glad how fast they caught him. This ruins his idea we arent good at our jobs of keeping citizens safe. They have always worked fast as hell in capturing bad people who cause mass harm.
You do understand that due process doesn't exist in this situation, right?
As long as the govt labels him as "terrorist", they can do whatever the hell they want to him, guilty or not.
People know this is a fact, right?
RustyNails
Member
Oh its forgotten so we will not use it to make our ridiculous point that New Testament fixed all the violence in Bible. I didn't know the statute of limitation applied to religions.
Funky Papa
FUNK-Y-PPA-4
SuperBanana
Banned
Terrorists feed on fear and terror(hence the name). A man who constantly pushes a divide between races just pushes more people into recruitment.
Of course it was. Lmao thats all they could find to support their shitty ass claim of islam being more violent. I was just about to go look into the author of the site. The fucking guy doesny even have a degree in religion just strong interest in it lmao.
Nervous Sausage
Member
No it's disingenuous to just compare 'amounts of violence' without any of the nuance. The Old Testament had a lot of terrible shit in it, especially in the story of Moses but it has absolutely nothing to do with the Gospel or anything that Jesus ever taught, or anything contained in the books of Matthew through to John for that matter. Jesus lived by and taught the Golden Rule before being murdered for blasphemy, heresy, and apostasy. This matters because Christians today are taught to live like Jesus and by this Golden Rule, and that's why you don't see anywhere near as much violence coming from them today. Islam is different in that unlike Jesus, Muslims are encouraged to live just as Mohammad did, and this is where the problem arises because Mohammad was a very different man to Jesus. Mohammad engaged in genocide, theft, rape, and slavery while encouraging the murder of blasphemers, heretics, and apostates. This is a big difference. Mohammad incites much more violence and people actually follow those teachings which is why it's not surprising we see these issues on a scale that dwarfs anything from other religions.
Night Angel
Member
So first I'm a prejudiced asshole, and now I'm obtuse? Yeah, man, I definitely wanna have a conversation with you. Maybe next I can be a retarded bigot.
I didn't know. I stand corrected.
I will look for another source.
This was my basic point, but I was accused of moving goalposts.
But as I said, I will continue to find a proper source. You were right, platocplx.
Haha man you are making some jumps off logic with this post I'm not even sure where to start. I was never talking directly about the victims, you were and still are. I was talking about your tunnel vision and how you don't like being labeled despite you making use of tons of labels yourself like the regressive left. Get off your hypocritical high horse and look in the mirror at yourself.
Edit: anyways I'm out. Have fun your labels and whatever else you are on about.
Audioboxer
Member
Erm, if you've followed all my posts you seem to have it very wrong there. I go all ham just fine at Christianity and Catholicism. The point I was making was due to reform and the new Testament in Christianity most modern day Christians do not act out with their extremism in the form of violence. The largest problems America faces today is Christians trying to discriminate against the LGBT community. They largely get shutdown and when we all criticise and mock them they do not respond with violence. As I said the Westboro Baptist Church, one of the largest mainstream disgusting preachers of the Bible do protests. Not killings or radicalising followers to go to other countries and cause mayhem. Same with creationists like everyone's favourite Ken Ham. They spout nonsense, but largely we can say nearly anything in the media about them without them being called Christianophobes.
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