• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

Next-gen Racing Graphics Face-off | (Next-gen means current-gen)

FukuDaruma

Member
Oct 2, 2019
204
481
230
will they all look good, the problem is first they are edited and secondly they are from replay mode where the graphics get enhanced. Also what are you tryna show with those replays graphically anyway? just asking out of curiosity. Its like me posting this without saying nothing

Not trying to "show" particularly anything, just they look good. And not trying to shit on Forza (I'm playing more FH4 than any other these days).
As I said, I am honestly tired of the GT vs Forza debate. Each one have their strengths, and each person may have their subjective preferences for what one considers "best". One basic thing I hate in GTS is not having a proper dash cam or the option of removing hands and wheel for wheel players. I think this is pathetic in 2019-20.

Those gifs you posted look great too. IMHO not as realistic as Sunhi's but he's a top dog at this shit, even when he is using a base PS4 (said so on twitter), and I think GTS lighting and ambient look more realistic in certain conditions.

A bit beyond "graphics", but I'm always amazed at how realistic the car's motion, suspension, weight, ... look in some of these:



Are there some Forza ones like these?
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Bunta_Fujiwara

carsar

Member
Sep 10, 2017
199
135
245
GTS really needs in motion blur(object and camera) and some realistic camera shaking to match the visual fidelity of these gifs.
Camera's movement is the most important component of realistic perceptions imho.
 
Last edited:

Turk1993

Member
Jan 13, 2018
581
1,054
355
Those gifs of yours doesn't look realistic at all compared to GT,what are you trying to demontrate
Well they are atleast not edited, and you just prove my point. He was also puting some random gifs without writing nothing, thats why i also asked him what he was tryna show.
Not trying to "show" particularly anything, just they look good. And not trying to shit on Forza (I'm playing more FH4 than any other these days).
As I said, I am honestly tired of the GT vs Forza debate. Each one have their strengths, and each person may have their subjective preferences for what one considers "best". One basic thing I hate in GTS is not having a proper dash cam or the option of removing hands and wheel for wheel players. I think this is pathetic in 2019-20.

Those gifs you posted look great too. IMHO not as realistic as Sunhi's but he's a top dog at this shit, even when he is using a base PS4 (said so on twitter), and I think GTS lighting and ambient look more realistic in certain conditions.

A bit beyond "graphics", but I'm always amazed at how realistic the car's motion, suspension, weight, ... look in some of these:




Are there some Forza ones like these?
Not trying to "show" particularly anything, just they look good. And not trying to shit on Forza (I'm playing more FH4 than any other these days).
As I said, I am honestly tired of the GT vs Forza debate. Each one have their strengths, and each person may have their subjective preferences for what one considers "best". One basic thing I hate in GTS is not having a proper dash cam or the option of removing hands and wheel for wheel players. I think this is pathetic in 2019-20.

Those gifs you posted look great too. IMHO not as realistic as Sunhi's but he's a top dog at this shit, even when he is using a base PS4 (said so on twitter), and I think GTS lighting and ambient look more realistic in certain conditions.

A bit beyond "graphics", but I'm always amazed at how realistic the car's motion, suspension, weight, ... look in some of these:



Are there some Forza ones like these?
Yes Sunhi GIF are really nice edited, the guy is a master in that. He has some serious skills, the way he can put those clips is incredible, but still its edited and doesn't fully represent the games visuals. But on the movement of the car in GT, i can give you that they look amazing. And since you asked it, i gave it a try. Im not Sunhilegend but i think i did a decent job :). Also on the side note, i never watched any replays in racing games but holly shit Forza's replays are not bad at all in fact they are amazing. Maybe not GT level but far from bad, especially the Dubai track.

I used also Adobe After Effects, 2 black bars to make it look cinematic and upped 0.2 the shadows. Thats all, nothing major.
 
Oct 27, 2019
168
218
185
I generally agree with you regarding lighting. However, environmental reflections and shadows are not very great in GT Sport compared to others (e.g. Forza 7). Low resolution, lacking detail, and sometimes not reflecting parts of the environment at all.
Regarding the shadows and reflections you have to take account that the reflections and shadows on GT are in real time and in some instances they have 60hz refresh rate while on forza they go at 30hz (see the Digital Foundry comparision) andcomparisions are done while forza is running at max settings on pc.
 
  • Like
Reactions: thelastword

TheAdmiester

Member
Jan 28, 2014
5,944
300
500
Regarding the shadows and reflections you have to take account that the reflections and shadows on GT are in real time and in some instances they have 60hz refresh rate while on forza they go at 30hz (see the Digital Foundry comparision) andcomparisions are done while forza is running at max settings on pc.
On base PS4 they’re almost certainly not 60Hz when I’m playing.

Also, Forza clearly isn’t on PC in those comparisons as they want to keep it fair between consoles, and Forza’s reflections are definitely matched to the frame rate on PC. On console Forza Motorsport’s reflections are 30Hz outside of time trials, and Horizon’s are 30 locked with the game.

Also might not be a good idea to quadruple post, better to just edit your post next time unless somebody responds.
 
Last edited:
Oct 27, 2019
168
218
185
On base PS4 they’re almost certainly not 60Hz when I’m playing.

Also, Forza clearly isn’t on PC in those comparisons as they want to keep it fair between consoles, and Forza’s reflections are definitely matched to the frame rate on PC. On console Forza Motorsport’s reflections are 30Hz outside of time trials, and Horizon’s are 30 locked with the game.
Nope in the DF comparision Forza was running on pc at ultra settings (and still didn't manage to top GT)

Go to min. 1:32
 

TheAdmiester

Member
Jan 28, 2014
5,944
300
500
Nope in the DF comparision Forza was running on pc at ultra settings (and still didn't manage to top GT)

Go to min. 1:32
In that case the mention of reflection speed is inaccurate because it’s only lower on Motorsport and on console. On Horizon it’s 30 as with the game, and both Motorsport and Horizon on PC have reflections matching the frame rate unless they’re set to the lower settings.
 
Last edited:

Bogroll

Likes moldy games
Jan 25, 2018
966
657
430
England
On base PS4 they’re almost certainly not 60Hz when I’m playing.

Also, Forza clearly isn’t on PC in those comparisons as they want to keep it fair between consoles, and Forza’s reflections are definitely matched to the frame rate on PC. On console Forza Motorsport’s reflections are 30Hz outside of time trials, and Horizon’s are 30 locked with the game.

Also might not be a good idea to quadruple post, better to just edit your post next time unless somebody responds.
They're aren't, some are, i think it's when you go under a bridge and your in 3rd person view and there maybe some other instances i may not remember. Interior, dash and bonnet view they're 60fps on XbX and may even be on Xb1. Btw Gts in same camera's can drop to 20 fps and quite blocky reflections even on my Pro.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: LostDonkey

LostDonkey

Member
Nov 4, 2015
2,820
1,355
565
United Kingdom
Reflections on Forza (pc) when im playing are definitely not 30hz lol.

GTS is a generation behind in reflections, hell there are ps3/360 games that are better.

Shift 2 unleashed is one off the top of my head.

Anyone saying the reflections are a match for Forza even at 30fps needs their head feeling.
 
Oct 27, 2019
168
218
185
Reflections on Forza (pc) when im playing are definitely not 30hz lol.

GTS is a generation behind in reflections, hell there are ps3/360 games that are better.

Shift 2 unleashed is one off the top of my head.

Anyone saying the reflections are a match for Forza even at 30fps needs their head feeling.
Not at all,on GT you have a more advanced and more accurate technique than what is used in forza,the only downside is that it needs more compute power that's why they have to lower the res,agan see the DF comparision,everything is explained therebut at least they managed to run it at 60hz in the most cases,while on forza unless you have a capable pc to max it out you're stuck with 30hz reflections even on the xbox x which is 30% more powerful than the ps4 pro).
If the next gen playstation will be in the same power range as the next gen xbox I think there will be no context,Polyphony Digital are on a different league
 
Last edited:

Bogroll

Likes moldy games
Jan 25, 2018
966
657
430
England
Not at all,on GT you have a more advanced and more accurate technique than what is used in forza,the only downside is that it needs more compute power that's why they have to lower the res,agan see the DF comparision,everything is explained therebut at least they managed to run it at 60hz in the most cases,while on forza unless you have a capable pc to max it out you're stuck with 30hz reflections even on the xbox x which is 30% more powerful than the ps4 pro).
If the next gen playstation will be in the same power range as the next gen xbox I think there will be no context,Polyphony Digital are on a different league
That advanced that when you go under a bridge cars that are 10,20 or whatever yards in front of you has the same reflections on their car for no apparent reason.
There's pluses and minuses for both.
 
Last edited:

Turk1993

Member
Jan 13, 2018
581
1,054
355
Such an amazing cover of Zimmer's "First Step" makes the video all the more mesmerizing.

Some more Driveclub.






Still mad at sony for not letting them update the game with Pro support. This game is one of the games that would have benefit heavy from high resolution and AF. Still has the best rain in any game.

Nope in the DF comparision Forza was running on pc at ultra settings (and still didn't manage to top GT)

Go to min. 1:32
Nope in the DF comparision Forza was running on pc at ultra settings (and still didn't manage to top GT)

Go to min. 1:32
Not at all,on GT you have a more advanced and more accurate technique than what is used in forza,the only downside is that it needs more compute power that's why they have to lower the res,agan see the DF comparision,everything is explained therebut at least they managed to run it at 60hz in the most cases,while on forza unless you have a capable pc to max it out you're stuck with 30hz reflections even on the xbox x which is 30% more powerful than the ps4 pro).
If the next gen playstation will be in the same power range as the next gen xbox I think there will be no context,Polyphony Digital are on a different league
They literally say seconds later that the reflections are 60fps on pc, and it can go higher. I know it because i play it at 90+fps on pc and the reflections match the frame rate on pc. And GTS reflections are mostly low 15fps to 30fps even on the PRO, and they are the lowest quality reflections i have ever seen in a recent racing game. There are some good reflections like in the interior on small objects but thats it. The exterior and the dash reflections are really not good looking compared to other racers. And like i said they go even at 15fps wich is really distracting in a 60fps game. Also in Forza the interior dash reflections are actually real time, they reflect everything from the hands till to the wheel movement in real time.

GTS (all gameplay)




Even after rendering the image in photomode the reflections are still low quality


Forza (all gameplay)




 
Oct 27, 2019
168
218
185
Still mad at sony for not letting them update the game with Pro support. This game is one of the games that would have benefit heavy from high resolution and AF. Still has the best rain in any game.





They literally say seconds later that the reflections are 60fps on pc, and it can go higher. I know it because i play it at 90+fps on pc and the reflections match the frame rate on pc. And GTS reflections are mostly low 15fps to 30fps even on the PRO, and they are the lowest quality reflections i have ever seen in a recent racing game. There are some good reflections like in the interior on small objects but thats it. The exterior and the dash reflections are really not good looking compared to other racers. And like i said they go even at 15fps wich is really distracting in a 60fps game. Also in Forza the interior dash reflections are actually real time, they reflect everything from the hands till to the wheel movement in real time.

GTS (all gameplay)




Even after rendering the image in photomode the reflections are still low quality


Forza (all gameplay)




Total bullshit like your downgraded jpg screens of GTS and Supersampled forza 7 png screens taken from pc version(the latter still looks ugly even in this conditions lol).

 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: thelastword

Turk1993

Member
Jan 13, 2018
581
1,054
355
Total bullshit like your downgraded jpg screens of GTS and Supersampled forza 7 png screens taken from pc version(the latter still looks ugly even in this conditions lol).

Please tell me what is bullshit? Why are you claiming that my screens are downgraded? And how are the reflections in Forza ugly while looking superior to GTS wich you claimed looked better. Here if you whant i post them in png via flickr jeez



 
Oct 27, 2019
168
218
185
Who's this joker? Take some stills from the game you have and post them so we can have a proper look. Don't know what you are trying to prove with a low quality video on which you can barely see the reflections anyway?
Ok boomer... If you're here for low quality content look at the downgraded GTS screens of Turk1993
 
  • Like
Reactions: thelastword

FukuDaruma

Member
Oct 2, 2019
204
481
230
Still mad at sony for not letting them update the game with Pro support. This game is one of the games that would have benefit heavy from high resolution and AF. Still has the best rain in any game.
Same. The whole shutting down of Evolution was a total shitty move from Sony. A decent update for the Pro with better res, AA, ... would have been great.
Agree rain is still the best. Droplets were a bit coarse but damn, those realtime fluid dynamics on a base PS4... I'm still surprised nobody has been able to even match that quality in 5 years. Some Evo guys ended up at Codemasters, but none of their games after the absorption have the same quality (neither in rain effects nor in dynamic lighting, volumetrics, ... ). Let's hope SMS+Codemasters can bring some better quality, but that Fast & Furious trailer didn't look good tbh.

The exterior and the dash reflections are really not good looking compared to other racers
It's been quite some time since I played GTS and I did in cockpit camera. Don't remember them looking that bad or distracting during gameplay, but those reflections are certainly very low res.

However they look 60fps to me here:
 
Last edited:

Turk1993

Member
Jan 13, 2018
581
1,054
355
Same. The whole shutting down of Evolution was a total shitty move from Sony. A decent update for the Pro with better res, AA, ... would have been great.
Agree rain is still the best. Droplets were a bit coarse but damn, those realtime fluid dynamics on a base PS4... I'm still surprised nobody has been able to even match that quality in 5 years. Some Evo guys ended up at Codemasters, but none of the games have the same quality (neither in rain effects nor in dynamic lighting, volumetrics, ... )



It's been quite some time since I played GTS and I did in cockpit camera. Don't remember them looking that bad or distracting during gameplay, but those reflections are certainly very low res.

However they look 60fps to me here:
In replay mode they run 60fps i think, but in gameplay they are really low rez and run low fps. Even in time trail with 1 car it doesn't chance wich is weird, they have headroom to improve it with 1 car on the track but they don't change anything.
 

TheAdmiester

Member
Jan 28, 2014
5,944
300
500
Not sure how one can fake reflections in a screenshot but hey...

Same. The whole shutting down of Evolution was a total shitty move from Sony. A decent update for the Pro with better res, AA, ... would have been great.
Agree rain is still the best. Droplets were a bit coarse but damn, those realtime fluid dynamics on a base PS4... I'm still surprised nobody has been able to even match that quality in 5 years. Some Evo guys ended up at Codemasters, but none of their games after the absorption have the same quality (neither in rain effects nor in dynamic lighting, volumetrics, ... ). Let's hope SMS+Codemasters can bring some better quality, but that Fast & Furious trailer didn't look good tbh.



It's been quite some time since I played GTS and I did in cockpit camera. Don't remember them looking that bad or distracting during gameplay, but those reflections are certainly very low res.

However they look 60fps to me here:
But those clips aren't 60fps themselves. They're either 30 or 24.
 
Last edited:
  • Thoughtful
Reactions: LostDonkey
Oct 27, 2019
168
218
185
Please tell me what is bullshit? Why are you claiming that my screens are downgraded? And how are the reflections in Forza ugly while looking superior to GTS wich you claimed looked better. Here if you whant i post them in png via flickr jeez



Im not talking about the reflections here,( i agree that they are very low res when you switch to external camera, but at least,like i said they use a mor complex technique and run at 60hz on the most of the time while on forza if you are stucked to a console reflections are limited to 30hz),i was talking about your image quality of the screenshots, it looks like they are taken from a base ps4 and upscaled in UHD, when you play the image quality is way better then this bullshots of yours
 

TheAdmiester

Member
Jan 28, 2014
5,944
300
500
Both games use the same technique for reflections - cubemaps. The only "more complex" you can get right now is using fully dynamic cubemaps to reflect cars (which neither do), SSR (which Driveclub and ACC use), or ray/path tracing.

The only thing different between GT and Forza is when you go onto bonnet camera on Forza - it uses a projection of the previous frame to fake a fully dynamic reflection that can show cars and moving objects.
 
  • Like
Reactions: carsar

FukuDaruma

Member
Oct 2, 2019
204
481
230
Maybe I'm too tired, but I think the reflections on the 60fps video B Bunta_Fujiwara just posted are clearly matching the gameplay framerate, no? that's not a replay either...

Just check at this point:
 

Turk1993

Member
Jan 13, 2018
581
1,054
355
Not sure how one can fake reflections in a screenshot but hey...


But those clips aren't 60fps themselves. They're either 30 or 24.
Maybe those are not but in replay mode the reflections look 60fps on Pro in 1080p mode.

Im not talking about the reflections here,( i agree that they are very low res when you switch to external camera, but at least,like i said they use a mor complex technique and run at 60hz on the most of the time while on forza if you are stucked to a console reflections are limited to 30hz),i was talking about your image quality of the screenshots, it looks like they are taken from a base ps4 and upscaled in UHD, when you play the image quality is way better then this bullshots of yours
Mate those are native 4k PNG from my Pro, i didn't do anyhting. There was a guy like you who claimed the same thing and when i asked for his screenshots he poted even lower rez screens so please if you think they are low rez post your screens.
Both games use the same technique for reflections - cubemaps. The only "more complex" you can get right now is using fully dynamic cubemaps to reflect cars (which neither do), SSR (which Driveclub and ACC use), or ray/path tracing.

The only thing different between GT and Forza is when you go onto bonnet camera on Forza - it uses a projection of the previous frame to fake a fully dynamic reflection that can show cars and moving objects.
Exactly, and Forza just has higher resolution in those reflections and more cubemaps.
Maybe I'm too tired, but I think the reflections on the 60fps video B Bunta_Fujiwara just posted are clearly matching the gameplay framerate, no? that's not a replay either...

Just check at this point:
Thats in 1080p 60fps mode, i didn't test that one out tbh. Its possible because it runs at lower resolution so the frame rate of the reflections stay 60fps.