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Next-gen Racing Graphics Face-off | (Next-gen means current-gen)

FukuDaruma

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Forza is basically laughable in every aspect 😂
I think Project CARS 2 is clearly the worst. Forza has better reflections, resolution, AA (except power lines), motion blur, shadows resolution, and more off track details (don't know if they are realistic or not), and I like its dusty ambient and the camera shake. GT Sport have good motion blur but only with the "Favor Frame Rate" option in 2K, AND only in cameras other than cockpit (epic fail), but they are not using this mode in this video.

I've been playing Laguna Seca this week in both Forza on PC and GT Sport on the Pro and I prefer the GTS experience because cars behave more realistically (Forza feels more arcade) and wheel support and FFB is much better. HDR in GTS is top notch too, Forza is decent but not top notch. And this may be the ugliest TOD to show this track too.
 
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Bunta_Fujiwara

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I think Project CARS 2 is clearly the worst. Forza has better reflections, resolution, AA (except power lines), motion blur, shadows resolution, and more off track details (don't know if they are realistic or not), and I like its dusty ambient and the camera shake. GT Sport have good motion blur but only with the "Favor Frame Rate" option in 2K, AND only in cameras other than cockpit (epic fail), but they are not using this mode in this video.

I've been playing Laguna Seca this week in both Forza on PC and GT Sport on the Pro and I prefer the GTS experience because cars behave more realistically (Forza feels more arcade) and wheel support and FFB is much better. HDR in GTS is top notch too, Forza is decent but not top notch. And this may be the ugliest TOD to show this track too.
Resolution i think it's the same since both forza and PJC are running on PC, and soundwise Project Cars even it's not very similar to the real counterpart sounds better than forza and has better lighting (for example on forza the sun reflection on the road surface is non existent) and better off-track .As for GT is the better one even it runs on a way weacker hardware
 
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FukuDaruma

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Resolution i think it's the same since both forza and PJC are running on PC, and soundwise Project Cars even it's not very similar to the real counterpart sounds better than forza and has better lighting (for example on forza the sun reflection on the road surface is non existent) and better off-track .As for GT is the better one even it runs on a way weacker hardware
Video description says both Forza and Pcars2 running on XB1 X. Don't know if Pcars2 is true 4K or upscaled, but difficult to say with all that horrible aliasing. Even on PC using Supersampling+MSAA is still very noticeable.

It's true that the road lighting looks more flat on Forza, but maybe it is due to that "dusty" look they went for. Also, I like those visibly detailed skid marks and asphalt in Forza. It depends what you value the most, but for me, Project CARS 2 horrible aliasing is a total "no no". I can bear blurriness, GTS low res reflections, lack of res or whatever, but there is nothing less realistic and immersion breaking than a ton of jagged edges all over the screen.
 
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Bunta_Fujiwara

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Video description says both Forza and Pcars2 running on XB1 X. Don't know if Pcars2 is true 4K or upscaled, but difficult to say with all that horrible aliasing. Even on PC using Supersampling+MSAA is still very noticeable.

It's true that the road lighting looks more flat on Forza, but maybe it is due to that "dusty" look they went for. Also, I like those visibly detailed skid marks and asphalt in Forza. It depends what you value the most, but for me, Project CARS 2 horrible aliasing is a total "no no". I can bear blurriness, GTS low res reflections, lack of res or whatever, but there is nothing less realistic and immersion breaking than a ton of jagged edges all over the screen.
You're right
 

hollowcupra

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The only game with bad suspension reaction on this thread is forza




lmao
That's the problem with this thread, everyone takes a gif with a certain low point of that moment and takes it as granted. That's something that happens from both sides for both games and in the end no conclusion can be made.

In reality each game has it's low and high points. None of them is perfect.

The video above with the three games, GTS is overall the best looker, FM is the more pleasant driving wise, and PC2 is so and so, but visually, i mean when you play them, all of them are equally pleasant.

And the thread is about graphics of the next gen driving games not how they behave.

I'm talking about the visual aspect of the suspension and not the actual gameplay behavior.
 
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Bunta_Fujiwara

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That's the problem with this thread, everyone takes a gif with a certain low point of that moment and takes it as granted. That's something that happens from both sides for both games and in the end no conclusion can be made.

In reality each game has it's low and high points. None of them is perfect.

The video above with the three games, GTS is overall the best looker, FM is the more pleasant driving wise, and PC2 is so and so, but visually, i mean when you play them, all of them are equally pleasant.
Are you serious or just trolling?,and no low points on forza are constant,i don't even need a gif.

Look at this for example,car movements are totally un natural

 
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scalman

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man sad times when we just have like 3 games to compare and 1 of them is even too old allready its gone and forgotten. we need more competition up here and not that shit what SMS showed us with their new FandF game. sad times indeed. so we weill have just 2 racing games on next gen consoles ? thats rly bad
 

hollowcupra

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Are you serious or just trolling?
a few words after that but visually, i mean when you play them, all of them are equally pleasant.

Are you serious or just trolling?,and no low points on forza are constant,i don't even need a gif.

Look at this for example,car movements are totally un natural

I don't know the car movements are fine in my opinion.

The replay direction though and the colors are not that good. That something GTS is good at, giving pleasant replays.

And generally yes, i believe i'm serious. I don't favor a specific platform (maybe PlayStation for my gaming).
 
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Patrick S.

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a few words after that but visually, i mean when you play them, all of them are equally pleasant.



I don't know the car movements are fine in my opinion.

The replay direction though and the colors are not that good. That something GTS is good at, giving pleasant replays.

And generally yes, i believe i'm serious. I don't favor a specific platform (maybe PlayStation for my gaming).
Man, ignore that guy. He has all of 32 posts, and all of them are him talking trash in this thread.
 
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FukuDaruma

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man sad times when we just have like 3 games to compare and 1 of them is even too old allready its gone and forgotten. we need more competition up here and not that shit what SMS showed us with their new FandF game. sad times indeed. so we weill have just 2 racing games on next gen consoles ? thats rly bad
True. And just look at this 3 month old game from Code"masters"... 🤦‍♂️

Grid Autosport (2014) on the left, GRID (2019) on the right:




Grid Autosport (2014) top, GRID (2019) bottom







Yep, they managed to make it worse than their own title from more than 5 years ago... 🤦‍♂️

One can only guess what they're going to do with SMS now...
 
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Bunta_Fujiwara

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a few words after that but visually, i mean when you play them, all of them are equally pleasant.



I don't know the car movements are fine in my opinion.

The replay direction though and the colors are not that good. That something GTS is good at, giving pleasant replays.

And generally yes, i believe i'm serious. I don't favor a specific platform (maybe PlayStation for my gaming).
As a sim racing enthusiast i have to totally disagree,car dynamics like suspension,wieght tranfer,tire grip,wheel force feedback on GT are way way ahead compared to forza, ot a point that plenty of only pc sim gamers are actually enjoying the game and it's physics.
 
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transformer

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Regarding the shadows and reflections you have to take account that the reflections and shadows on GT are in real time and in some instances they have 60hz refresh rate while on forza they go at 30hz (see the Digital Foundry comparision) andcomparisions are done while forza is running at max settings on pc.
You can take into account anything you want. Forza looks far better than GT Sport in this regard. Not even close.
 

Bunta_Fujiwara

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Sir, I just turned 42 years old. I don't give a fuck about what system people play their games on. I'm tired of console warriors like you, and have been for twenty years.
Im not the only one here,you have also forza fanboys that are doing console war here for ages...so why are you disturbing only pro GT users?
 
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Patrick S.

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As a sim racing enthusiast i have to totally disagree,car dynamics like suspension,wieght tranfer,tire grip,wheel force feedback on GT are way way ahead compared to forza, ot a point that plenty of only pc sim gamers are actually enjoying the game and it's physics.
And all of them say they enjoy it as a simcade, and not a "proper sim". I love Gran Turismo and I have all of them, but Gran Turismo's physics/handling has never felt realistic to me.

Im not the only one here,you have also forza fanboys that are doing console war here for ages...so why are you disturbing only pro GT users?
You are the chosen one!
 
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Bunta_Fujiwara

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And all of them say they enjoy it as a simcade, and not a "proper sim". I love Gran Turismo and I have all of them, but Gran Turismo's physics/handling has never felt realistic to me.



You are the chosen one!
Because you are biased.

Here the opinion of a simracer that compare GTS with AC (only that it's a big acomplishment for a mass market game like GT) and actually admits that some cars drives better on GT. You have also real racing drivers (not sponsored by GT)that enjoy the game and use it to train like David Perel.And i have other examples if you want. You will never find a sim racer that enjoys Forza's physics or FFB with a steering wheel,never,because it is not build for that. GT is just a better game when it comes to realism.



 
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transformer

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Comparison videos tell a different story,get used to it

Are you really claiming that the pixelated, 8-bit-ish, reflections and subpar shadows in GT Sport look better than Forza’s? Some crazy glasses you’ve got on there. I think we can all see pictures and videos in this thread that clearly show this shortcoming in GT Sport.
 
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Patrick S.

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Because you are biased.

Here the opinion of a simracer that compare GTS with AC (only that it's a big acomplishment for a mass market game like GT) and actually admits that some cars drives better on GT. You have also real racing drivers (not sponsored by GT)that enjoy the game and use it to train like David Perel.And i have other examples if you want. You will never find a sim racer that enjoys Forza's physics or FFB with a steering wheel,never,because it is not build for that. GT is just a better game when it comes to realism.



Biased why? As I said, I am far from being a fanboy for any system. I have got enough years worth of experience playing GT, Forza and most of the "proper" sims out there. And I drive real cars, too. Sometimes fast ;) I think I'm able to form my own realistic and unbiased opinion.

Btw, the people making those YouTube videos you mention might be biased, too, right? Anyway, I had already seen the videos you linked. Random Callsign may praise GT's handling. So what? What does that mean? It means that he played a videogame and enjoyed it. No more, no less. He's a youtuber, not a race car driver. I'd trust someone like Jimmy Broadbent, though, because Jimmer does have real racing experience. People like Super GT might be good at playing a videogame, but that doesn't empower them to say that, for example, a Ferrari 488 GT3 drives super accurately in GT, but not so much in Forza, because how the fuck would they know unless they've driven the real thing?

Also, Drivers like David Perel practice with stuff like GT because it helps them get a feel for the tracks, not because it's a perfect simulation. It just isn't.

Also also, my lap times in the different games are super similar. I spent a whole afternoon just the other day hottlapping the E30 M3 at Spa across GT, Forza, Assetto Corsa and pCars 2. Standard setup, playing with controllers. The final average difference between all the games was less than a second. What does that say? Doesn't that say that all the games are doing more or less the same things?
 
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Dontero

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The final average difference between all the games was less than a second. What does that say?
It says nothing because all physics systems in those games are tuned toward lap time not toward realism of simulation.
F40 in GT5 was doing exact same times as in real world but you will find no one arguing GT5 physic system was amazing, especially now when you have modern racing games with their advancements.

Forza7 physics are step up from previous games and wheel support is much better than previous games but they are still behind GTS on both fronts, especially in case of wheel support which is complete wood compared to something like GTS or any other sim racer. To understand how wooden it is you need to understand that PS2 GT4 had better wheel support than FM7. My G25 was alive when i was driving N-ring in GT4 despite GT4 luckluster physic system. You could feel every bump on the road and how wheel reacted to it, curbs, etc. In FM7 wheel is wood and outside of standard FB there is nothing going on.

On other hand if you take something like Assetto corsa you will understand that even GTS FF is behind a lot. Driving BMW with its electronics is completely different experience with FB than driving F40. BMW FF feels muffled by electronics (but not i a bad way) like some sort of targeting system while F40 gives you raw direct FF. IN FM7 whatever you drive truck or mini FF feel is exactly the same.


Turn10 received a lot of criticism of sim races when they released their game on PC and they actually started to look into it and they did improve things a bit. Problem is identified at least though. Simply put, FM7 physic system is not detached from input. Using pad is integral part of that physic system and they created wheel support by emulating pad stuff on wheel. Which is why you don't feel anything from wheel outside of standard FF because that information didn't exist as pads didn't have a way to convey those so stuff like roughness of track, tyre slip, power steering etc effect on FF was not created unlike something like GTS or other sim racers.

People hope with FM8 they will be able to revise their input and physic tie.
 
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Bunta_Fujiwara

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You know nothing about that car then.
That car in real life has tons of grip and doesn't slide like on Forza.




GTS in this aspect it is light years ahead.


In fact every car on forza slides like it has no grip,even the GT3 cars or the lmp1 which is laughable,on a game that aerodynamics doesn't even count as you can make corners eyes closed with on a F1 with DRS open ... i don't know even how you forza fanboys find the courage do defend this game even on his most indefensible aspect like the physics.

 
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DynamiteCop!

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That car in real life has tons of grip and doesn't slide like on Forza.




GTS in this aspect it is light years ahead.


In fact every car on forza slides like it has no grip,even the GT3 cars or the lmp1 which is laughable,on a game that aerodynamics doesn't even count as you can make corners eyes closed with on a F1 with DRS open ... i don't know even how you forza fanboys find the courage do defend this game even on his most indefensible aspect like the physics.

Implying you know anything about physics

 

Bunta_Fujiwara

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Are you really claiming that the pixelated, 8-bit-ish, reflections and subpar shadows in GT Sport look better than Forza’s? Some crazy glasses you’ve got on there. I think we can all see pictures and videos in this thread that clearly show this shortcoming in GT Sport.
You cling only to those few little flaws due to hardware limitations (which among other things do not affect the enjoyability of the game) to denigrate the game, there are reasons why the shadows and reflections are that way when you play with the third-person camera, the DF's analysis video explains it very clearly why, and ignore the fact that on the most important aspects that make up a racing game such as lighting, material reproduction, car models, tracks, driving physics, pit stop strategy with different compounds and fuel consumption, GT is a generation ahead and things will only improve with the ps5 at the doors
 
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Turk1993

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Man this is the cycle in this thread whenever someone compares GTS with Forza they start doing this


Like how many time are you guys gonna derail the thread, its about graphics not about physics. Forza can have physics of NFS 2015 and even then it wouldn't matter. If it looks better it looks better, simple as that.
 

Bogroll

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That car in real life has tons of grip and doesn't slide like on Forza.




GTS in this aspect it is light years ahead.


In fact every car on forza slides like it has no grip,even the GT3 cars or the lmp1 which is laughable,on a game that aerodynamics doesn't even count as you can make corners eyes closed with on a F1 with DRS open ... i don't know even how you forza fanboys find the courage do defend this game even on his most indefensible aspect like the physics.

Your embarrassing
 

transformer

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You cling only to those few little flaws due to hardware limitations (which among other things do not affect the enjoyability of the game) to denigrate the game, there are reasons why the shadows and reflections are that way when you play with the third-person camera, the DF's analysis video explains it very clearly why, and ignore the fact that on the most important aspects that make up a racing game such as lighting, material reproduction, car models, tracks, driving physics, pit stop strategy with different compounds and fuel consumption, GT is a generation ahead and things will only improve with the ps5 at the doors
Lol. This is a racing game graphics thread. We make comments about the pros and cons of racing games graphics and compare them. I’m not “clinging” to anything or making excuses, like some people here are... I was commenting about a couple of aspects about graphics in a thread about graphics. I’m not sure why you go all hardcore defense force over GT Sport not being perfect in every regard. No game is.
 

FukuDaruma

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Man this is the cycle in this thread whenever someone compares GTS with Forza they start doing this


Like how many time are you guys gonna derail the thread, its about graphics not about physics. Forza can have physics of NFS 2015 and even then it wouldn't matter. If it looks better it looks better, simple as that.


Again, not saying that GT Sport is better in every aspect, but plenty of 4K60 videos have been posted too, which are definitively a much more faithful representation of real gameplay than cherrypicked static screenshots.



Forza is basically laughable in every aspect 😂
Comparison videos tell a different story,get used to it

That car in real life has tons of grip and doesn't slide like on Forza.




GTS in this aspect it is light years ahead.


In fact every car on forza slides like it has no grip,even the GT3 cars or the lmp1 which is laughable,on a game that aerodynamics doesn't even count as you can make corners eyes closed with on a F1 with DRS open ... i don't know even how you forza fanboys find the courage do defend this game even on his most indefensible aspect like the physics.


BTW, out of curiosity (I know this has nothing to do with graphics comparision), do you play with a wheel or gamepad?
 
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transformer

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Again, not saying that GT Sport is better in every aspect, but plenty of 4K60 videos have been posted too, which are definitively a much more faithful representation of real gameplay than cherrypicked static screenshots.
I think how the games look in motion is an incredibly important aspect of the graphics. However, compressed videos are certainly not the end all be all in comparison. Uncompressed images show quite a bit about the finer points of the graphics which often times cannot be seen in compressed videos. Sure you can cherry pick pictures, the same can be done with videos.
 

Turk1993

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Again, not saying that GT Sport is better in every aspect, but plenty of 4K60 videos have been posted too, which are definitively a much more faithful representation of real gameplay than cherrypicked static screenshots.







BTW, out of curiosity (I know this has nothing to do with graphics comparision), do you play with a wheel or gamepad?
Im not against those video's, but every time i post a comparison of GTS vs Forza some of you claim that my photo's are edited and low rez and that they are compresed. And shortly after that they post those video's and gifs wich funny enough are heavily compressed video's against my photo's. And even in those video's its the same story, GTS have the better lighting and materials while Forza offering more detailed tracks, car model, textures, shadows and draw distance. And i posted over dozens of tracks with different cars and all the time you guys claim that they are cherrypicked while posting those videos with the same car track and tod combo, and the results are the same. And i play with a wheel and controller, depends on my mood and time. And look here, tell my wich is a more accurate representation of how the games look and wich one offer more detail to compare







 

FukuDaruma

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I think how the games look in motion is an incredibly important aspect of the graphics. However, compressed videos are certainly not the end all be all in comparison. Uncompressed images show quite a bit about the finer points of the graphics which often times cannot be seen in compressed videos. Sure you can cherry pick pictures, the same can be done with videos.
That's why I specified 4K60. A 4K60 with a 50-70Mbps bitrate sure is a more faithful representation than a screenshot. Specially if the video is from a whole track, compared to a 1/60 or 1/30 of a second, which is what screenshots represent of gameplay.

That's what happens for example with the GTS reflections that Turk1993 Turk1993 pointed out. Yes, they are pretty low res and stand out pretty bad in cherrypicked screenshots with the intention to show precisely that, but that's not how they usually look during gameplay. You have to pick a full reflective paint, stand at precise places and capture a static shot. And again, yes, Forza's reflections are much more defined, but GTS' don't look as bad as those screenshots led to think they look.

There's plenty of more real problems to point out in GTS, like LOD jumps and Draw Distance limits , that can only be appreciated in videos. Those sure are faithful examples of real gameplay problems.


Im not against those video's, but every time i post a comparison of GTS vs Forza some of you claim that my photo's are edited and low rez and that they are compresed. And shortly after that they post those video's and gifs wich funny enough are heavily compressed video's against my photo's. And even in those video's its the same story, GTS have the better lighting and materials while Forza offering more detailed tracks, car model, textures, shadows and draw distance. And i posted over dozens of tracks with different cars and all the time you guys claim that they are cherrypicked while posting those videos with the same car track and tod combo, and the results are the same. And i play with a wheel and controller, depends on my mood and time. And look here, tell my wich is a more accurate representation of how the games look and wich one offer more detail to compare
I agree that GTS has better lighting and materials and Forza better draw distance, more defined shadows (but unrealistically sharp imho) and maybe detailed tracks (not an expert myself, read some people saying that Forza's offtrack details are fake). Not sure about car models either, again not an expert, but I think the general consensus is that GTS' are a bit more detailed than Forza's. That was my impression too after watching the in depth DigitalFoundry comparision.

Again, 4K60 50-70 Mbps videos are not "heavily compressed". What you just did here is a static 1080p capture of a 4K video and are comparing 3:22 of footage to 16ms of the real experience...
 
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TheAdmiester

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Not sure about car models either, again not an expert, but I think the general consensus is that GTS' are a bit more detailed than Forza's
This specific bit I can clarify.

GTS is more detailed in terms of pure polygon counts, such as wheel arches and headlight curves having no hard edges visible. However, Forza's are more detailed in terms of "things" as the majority of cars have their engines fully modelled as you can open the bonnets in autovista. GTS doesn't have a car exploration feature, so only cars with exposed engines have their engines modelled.
 

Turk1993

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This specific bit I can clarify.

GTS is more detailed in terms of pure polygon counts, such as wheel arches and headlight curves having no hard edges visible. However, Forza's are more detailed in terms of "things" as the majority of cars have their engines fully modelled as you can open the bonnets in autovista. GTS doesn't have a car exploration feature, so only cars with exposed engines have their engines modelled.
In game Forza has more polygons, you can see it on the screenshots above from youtube and my screens. Thats why i say that car models are better in Forza, in game ofcourse.

That's why I specified 4K60. A 4K60 with a 50-70Mbps bitrate sure is a more faithful representation than a screenshot. Specially if the video is from a whole track, compared to a 1/60 or 1/30 of a second, which is what screenshots represent of gameplay.

That's what happens for example with the GTS reflections that Turk1993 Turk1993 pointed out. Yes, they are pretty low res and stand out pretty bad in cherrypicked screenshots with the intention to show precisely that, but that's not how they usually look during gameplay. You have to pick a full reflective paint, stand at precise places and capture a static shot. And again, yes, Forza's reflections are much more defined, but GTS' don't look as bad as those screenshots led to think they look.

There's plenty of more real problems to point out in GTS, like LOD jumps and Draw Distance limits , that can only be appreciated in videos. Those sure are faithful examples of real gameplay problems.




I agree that GTS has better lighting and materials and Forza better draw distance, more defined shadows (but unrealistically sharp imho) and maybe detailed tracks (not an expert myself, read some people saying that Forza's offtrack details are fake). Not sure about car models either, again not an expert, but I think the general consensus is that GTS' are a bit more detailed than Forza's. That was my impression too after watching the in depth DigitalFoundry comparision.

Again, 4K60 50-70 Mbps videos are not "heavily compressed". What you just did here is a static 1080p capture of a 4K video and are comparing 3:22 of footage to 16ms of the real experience...
DF comparison doesn't cover everything, and even they where wrong on some aspect like the car models in GTS. they compared them in photomode and told us that they where the same in gameplay wich is not true. I proved it 20 times maybe a few pages ago, you can see the difference between photomode car model and gameplay car model pretty clear. And the video's you tagged under your last comment are heavily compressed, they are also not the representation of the games. I also believe that Forza adds extra things on track to make it look more alive but thats not a bad thing i think. But the other things that are there in both games are higher quality in Forza. And i didn't cherrypick anything, i showed the games in different parts of the track. Other parts are the same story, Its not like one side of the track is better detailed compared to other side of the track. They are easy recognizable places and offer alot graphical objects and features like trees, buildings, walls, terrain, sand,.... So you can get a idea wich games is doing things better than the other game. And detail wise Forza offers alot more details than GTS in gameplay. The textures, car model, environments, the polygons and shadows are higher quality in Forza so i can't see how GTS can offer more details. It look more real due the the lighting and materials. They are one of the best, wich is the reason why it looks soo real from time to time. But pure detail, it lacks behind Forza. And im not even talking about Assetto Corsa wich is in its own league, and current graphics king in racing sims.
 

FukuDaruma

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And i play with a wheel and controller, depends on my mood and time.
Again offtopic but honestly, don't you find jarring the difference in cars behavior and FFB? it's so night and day for me that makes playing GTS so much more enjoyable... A track like Sardegna Windmills feels even better than Dirt Rally 2.


And the video's you tagged under your last comment are heavily compressed, they are also not the representation of the games.
So this is what you call a "heavily compressed" video and "not the representation of the games"??



You can honestly say your 16ms captures are a better "representation of the game" than this 4K60 3:22 video of a full track?
 
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