$299 for lockhart when they launched a last gen discless Xbone for $250?
Good luck.
MS will milk their fans no doubt as always.
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Next Xbox is ‘More Advanced’ Than the PS5 according to Insiders.
- Thread starter Afro Republican
- Start date
Good luck.
MS will milk their fans no doubt as always.
dano1
A Sheep
Phil definitely saved the sinking ship! Lots of respect for him.
TLZ
Banned
I think you're looking for this thread?
You have $$$ for ONE next gen console — which do you buy and why?
Let’s say you have $$$ for ONLY ONE next gen console: PS5 or XBOX Next — and you will only have that one console for the next 5 years... which one do you buy and why?
quickwhips
Member
I've been drinking I'm sorry.I think you're looking for this thread?
You have $$$ for ONE next gen console — which do you buy and why?
Let’s say you have $$$ for ONLY ONE next gen console: PS5 or XBOX Next — and you will only have that one console for the next 5 years... which one do you buy and why?www.neogaf.com
TLZ
Banned
All good mate just helping you out.
CloudSolace
Member
I don't care if the next Xbox is more powerful, because it won't be much more powerful if it is. That and Xbox just doesn't have the games to grab my interest anymore. I'm sticking with the PS5 even if the next Xbox is more powerful.
quickwhips
Member
I agree they will probably be close in power. The difference probably won't matter. The more important things next gen will be cross play so everyone can just play together and exclusives should determine purchase.
SonGoku
Member
The X GPU is not half a 1080Ti, nvidia has more performance per flop than AMD
I do agree however 400GB/s is way to low for next gen, 600GB/s minimum considering the X already has 326.4GB/s
Ar¢tos
Member
I'm not sure the Nvidia flops vs amd flops thing applies to consoles, since they are closed platforms with fixed hardware and have their own very optimized APIs.
Just look at the ps4, at has 1.8 AMD tflops and I'm sure each flop is very well used in games like God of War or Spiderman.
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DeepEnigma
Gold Member
That is why the 1.84TF PS4 first party games have been punching above it's weight in comparison to the PC arena with what they are pulling off in games flop for flop.
SonGoku
Member
Sure you can get more performance out of closed box but the same hw limitations exist.
A 6TF nvidia GPU would perform better on a console than a 6TF AMD GPU.
Ar¢tos
Member
lol, I was editing, adding something like that when you posted.
SonGoku
Member
Interesting read on a patent which suggest AMD may take a similar approach to nvidia SM design
Disregard the Arcturus speculation bit
www.pcgamesn.com
Also interesting:
AMD patent could bring Nvidia’s variable rate shading to Navi and next-gen consoles
Disregard the Arcturus speculation bit
Patents show AMD’s post-Navi GPU could use an Nvidia-like architecture
With more complex stream processors replacing the old SIMDs, AMD's next-gen GPUs will be more parallel and more efficient
www.pcgamesn.com
Also interesting:
AMD patent could bring Nvidia’s variable rate shading to Navi and next-gen consoles
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CyberPanda
Banned
Interesting read on a patent which suggest AMD may take a similar approach to nvidia SM design
Disregard the Arcturus speculation bit
Patents show AMD’s post-Navi GPU could use an Nvidia-like architecture
With more complex stream processors replacing the old SIMDs, AMD's next-gen GPUs will be more parallel and more efficient
Also interesting:
AMD patent could bring Nvidia’s variable rate shading to Navi and next-gen consoles
What does this mean? Can you summarize it please? Thanks
ResilientBanana
Member
Their new GPU beyond Navi will be similar to nVidia’s offering, which is far more powerful than AMDs current GCN architecture.
CyberPanda
Banned
AMD always a few steps behind.
SonGoku
Member
With the new arch design, SM will be better utilized, more independent and capable although the downsise will be less SM per die area
CyberPanda
Banned
Thanks.
SonGoku
Member
For sure, i think Async compute customization helps a great deal in getting the most out of each CU with exclusives designed to take advantage of the hw, keep in mind though this is not as flexible and might have limitations.
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makaveli60
Member
I still hate the idea of MS hindering the nextgen leap with their weaker machine. Why can't they just release a beast system like Sony and that's it? It's one thing that they don't do favors with this for the core gamers but they don't do for themselves either because all Sony exclusives will be designed with a ~12 Tf machine in mind unlike multiplatforms and MS exclusives. The difference will be quite big I think.
93xfan
Banned
makaveli60
Member
They are rumored to have a weaker and a stronger. But multiplatform and MS exclusives will be designed around the weaker machine, just like they are currently.
DynamiteCop!
Banned
Can we please put this nonsense to bed? Does it look like the Xbox One as the lowest denominator is in any way hindering games on the Xbox One X? This is without a doubt one of the falsest narratives of the generation, platforms are handled on an individual basis...
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Bernkastel
Ask me about my fanboy energy!
Anything that is coming to PC is optimised to run on weaker hardware.
CyberPanda
Banned
They don’t understand how game development works. These consoles are like PCs now and they just literally turn off graphical features here and there, then decrease or increase the resolution. It’s not rocket science.Can we please put this nonsense to bed? Does it look like the Xbox One as the lowest denominator is in any way hindering games on the Xbox One X? This is without a doubt one of the falsest narratives of the generation, platforms are handled on an individual basis...
makaveli60
Member
Going by your logic, cross-gen games aren't held back on nextgen consoles either. Do you think that's also true?Can we please put this nonsense to bed? Does it look like the Xbox One as the lowest denominator is in any way hindering games on the Xbox One X? This is without a doubt one of the falsest narratives of the generation, platforms are handled on an individual basis...
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makaveli60
Member
Sorry wanted to edit my previous post, mods delete this post please.
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DynamiteCop!
Banned
This first sentence right here says it all. Developers build high and then scale down, they don't start lower and then build up.
Cross-gen has typically come with the reality of completely different API's, and completely different feature sets in the hardware that the previous generation simply could not do. That doesn't translate here.
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makaveli60
Member
But if I see a comparison between base Xbox One and Xbox One X, the only difference I see is resolution, and sometimes some very minimal upgrades that wouldn't be noticeable if you didn't compare them. I refuse to believe that games wouldn't look better if XBX was the base machine.
DynamiteCop!
Banned
Every single game depicted in those above images is graphically tuned higher than its Xbox One counterpart abstract of resolution.
Where do you think PC Ultra settings come from and the like? That's the top end of game development, uncompressed textures, higher environmental assets, better shadow resolution, better reflections etc. That's what developers build from the get go abstract of the platform, when porting it over they tune and scale down. The same applies in the console sector, they build a game as they were going to and then worry about making it work on its host platform bit by bit as they iterate.
ResilientBanana
Member
usually they have 4K resolution as well as a 4K asset pack with higher res models and textures with a few more effects or so. But for the most part, the Xbox One X is literally taking current gen titles and upping the resolution.
Think about this, my buddy is running a nVidia Titan Xp with 12GB GDDR5X (12TF) has 32GB DDR4, and a Intel Core i9 with 10 cores and 20 threads. To this day he cannot run games at 4K60 at ultra settings. Low maybe, but not ultra. All that extra beef in the Xbox One X is literally for resolution. If games were made for the Xbox One X and focused on 1080p they would look phenomenal. But that’s not it’s purpose.
Correction: he can play at 4K but it doesn’t give him the FPS he’s looking for.
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makaveli60
Member
AAA games are designed with the weakest hardware in mind. Why doesn't Witcher 3 look like the initial trailer on PC even on ultra settings? They had to design it around XBO, they even admitted it. Or why doesn't games from e.g. 2011 on their absolute highest settings look nothing like the games nowadays? Because these games are designed around the lowest common denominator.
DynamiteCop!
Banned
Because of bullshot mentality for showcasing and developers who shoot far beyond what's feasible even on PC and then have to scale back to realistic levels. Also you're lying out of your ass, they never admitted that. That's been community conjecture since day one.
No, because rendering technology and graphical feature sets have changed and advanced, new engines have been created around these features sets and new technology. The original Xbox One can render ANYTHING the Xbox One X can, the Xbox 360 cannot render what the Xbox One can, even if it were just a still image. It lacks the API, it lacks the hardware features to run newly created technology implemented into graphics engines...
You're not understanding this.
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makaveli60
Member
Get off your high horse and let's just agree to disagree. I have no intention arguing with anyone that accuses me of lying anyway. It was maybe just a rumor, but I haven't made it up.
DynamiteCop!
Banned
No I'm not on a high horse, you're just wrong. There's no middle ground here, I'm not conceding to a fallacy.
You're perpetuating a lie and presenting it as a fact, that's you lying.
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ethomaz
Banned
Just a hint if Xbox One never existed then you could see X reach heights you can’t believe.Can we please put this nonsense to bed? Does it look like the Xbox One as the lowest denominator is in any way hindering games on the Xbox One X? This is without a doubt one of the falsest narratives of the generation, platforms are handled on an individual basis...
X and Pro power are subutilized.
mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
Sorry
With the advent of checkerboard, and even the decent upscaling from 1800p, there's no reason to go 1080p on a 12TF 4K system unless you're offering a performance mode. In many cases, the Lockhart would still be able to offer something similar with reduced settings in some areas.
I hope the rumors are true and the price comes in around $250-299. I'd like 2 for me and my boys and it's more practical to have two $299 1080p systems than a single $500 4K system in our case.
So now you guys think the difference in GPUs between Lockhart and Anaconda are $200-$250 worth in price? No way man.
Some people here don't understand the bolded.
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mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
LOLOLOLOL!!!!! Yeah I don't understand some of these people.
JoyFreak
Banned
That looks insane! Where did you find these specs?
DynamiteCop!
Banned
What are you even basing this on?
The only new rendering technology to come around in recent history and it's not even really new is ray tracing. Games are created in the developers vision and scaled to the confines of the platform in which they operate. If the X was the only system in the Xbox line the games wouldn't look any different than they do now whether exclusive or multiplatform. Games are graphically built well beyond the platform in which they operate and then scaled down for operation. There's no magic glass ceiling in development preventing developers from making peak use of a system because anything and everything can be reduced to conform for operation.
This is Witchfire, an in development game exclusive to the PC, it's a major looker but where are these heights being reached that can't be believed? Hunt: Showdown is another fine example of this, beautiful game but it's not off the map because this is simply what developers can do currently. You fundamentally misunderstand the way development works and you overestimate how far along game engines are in terms of their peak for real-time rendering.
https://www.techpowerup.com/gpu-specs/xbox-one-x-gpu.c2977
ethomaz
Banned
In actual games for Pro/X even exclusives.
BTW multiplatform games can't reach the weight in graphics of the exclusives due the same issue... needs to cater a big range of hardware config that holds the strong ones to reach the best it could archive.
That is clearly saw when you look at the best looking games for Xbox One X being inferior for Sony exclusives where the base is higher (PS4) than X (XB1).
If that was not true then X should be showing the top graphics this gen but that trophy holds to Sony with games like GoD, Horizon, etc... The Last Us Part 2 will probably push the bar again to new weights.
Lower denominator holds game development... that is true for X and XB1 (or Pro and PS4) today and it will be true for next-generation.
There is no magic against that.
X could delivery way better graphics if any developer choose to make a exclusive game to push it capabilities to max without any other platform holding it (today all console hardware holds X to reach the peak).
PS. That is the same reason that PC mostly do better graphics via brute force instead optimizations... no dev in the world can optimization to the wide range of hardware found in PC world... that is utophic... if a dev in PC chosse the highest hardware existent in the market and develop since beginning for it alone with optimizations and features that works best for that hardware the results could be described like miracle.
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mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
Except only one of those consoles will be the real Xbox Next console. Lockhart will either be called the Xbox Next Poor or the Anaconda will be called the Xbox Next Bill Gates edition (because it'll cost waaaay too much i.e. like $699).
You can look at Days Gone on the PS4 vs. the same game on the PS4 PRO. One game has double the TF power, yet the difference for that game is small but also noticeable. If the game was built for the PS4 PRO only, it'll look better.
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ethomaz
Banned
In my view if the both companies choose to follow the rumored paths we will have next gen:
$299 Xbox Lockhart ~4-6TFs (I don't see reason to push more than that for 1080p)
$399 PS5 ~13-14TFs
$499 Xbox Anaconda ~12TFs
Add $100 if they want to push more TFs but that is about what will happen next gen based on rumors... any surprise will be Sony pushing more for graphics entering in the $499 price point and Anaconda trying to cover that with the $599 price point.
And I believe due how gaming development works no game will beat Sony PS5 exclusives in terms of graphics due it having no other hardware holding it to reach fully optimizations... even Anaconda with ~2TFs additional will be hold by Lockhart and PC to reach the peak and so being below PS5 in terms of graphics.
Hardware optimizations exists in gaming development.
$299 Xbox Lockhart ~4-6TFs (I don't see reason to push more than that for 1080p)
$399 PS5 ~13-14TFs
$499 Xbox Anaconda ~12TFs
Add $100 if they want to push more TFs but that is about what will happen next gen based on rumors... any surprise will be Sony pushing more for graphics entering in the $499 price point and Anaconda trying to cover that with the $599 price point.
And I believe due how gaming development works no game will beat Sony PS5 exclusives in terms of graphics due it having no other hardware holding it to reach fully optimizations... even Anaconda with ~2TFs additional will be hold by Lockhart and PC to reach the peak and so being below PS5 in terms of graphics.
Hardware optimizations exists in gaming development.
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mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
Is the only difference in Lockhart compared to Anaconda is the GPU (based on rumors)? Or is it a worse GPU, plus other things?
DynamiteCop!
Banned
Again, that's not how game development works. I don't know how many different ways it can be reiterated to you that what you see on a console is not what was created. It's a scaled down build of the original texture resolution, assets, environmental geometry, shadows, reflections, LoD distance and draw etc.
I just posted two PC exclusive games from some of the most talented graphically focused developers that have no ceiling in their development beyond what is capable from an art and real-time rendering standpoint and they roughly fall in line with the rest of the pack. You overestimate what game developers can do.
None of this is sky's the limit, there's engine and technological limitations in the software.
No it wouldn't because there's only enough power there to push the increase in resolution and some minute setting differences. If they could graphically push the game more that would only serve to decrease its rendering resolution.
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ethomaz
Banned
Looks like just GPU but we don't know the clocks for the CPU too.
DynamiteCop!
Banned
It would be the RAM capacity as well, a system with a different target resolution doesn't need the same amount of RAM.
ethomaz
Banned
Optimization is done by specific hardware... open any API or game source code and you will see tons of IFs with platform specific (even PC CPU, GPU, etc) code path.... you can reach these called "miracles" with code optimization for specific hardware.
Yes gaming development... no... any software development works like that.
BTW Intel.
HPC Development
A portfolio of HPC tools help data scientists, researchers, and developers efficiently build cross-architecture applications.
software.intel.com
The best is make your code optimized to the specific CPU your running it... of course optimization costs money so you should balance what is better to you but when you are developing for a fixed hardware it becomes cheaper because you already develop for that hardware alone making optimization merged with your game development budegt.
Brute force will always be a less-optimized way to archive better graphics because if you take your time to optimize for that stronger hardware then you have the "miracle".
You can expect next-gen to PS5 shines in graphics with exclusives even having the weaker hardware
Ohhh yeap... I forgot the RAM... amount of RAM will be different.
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mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
WHOA! How much of a RAM difference? Will one console have 24 GBs of RAM and then other have 12 GBs of RAM?