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[Beer Monkey]

The only question I pose to you, and I'm looking for a realistic answer (probably expecting too much), is who gains the most from this generation? Does Sony gain by having their market share blasted away? Does MS gain by greatly improving their market share?

MS has already gained greatly. At this point it's safe to assume that MS will participate in the coming generation. Flash back to fall 2005 and it was a whole different picture. At that point I figured the 360 would be their final console and I was not alone in this opinion.

 

[Raist]

The problem here is you're using the 2007 numbers for France, while using the 2006 numbers for the US. Both markets grew considerably as far as income in 2007. So, by trying to make the comparison of 2007 vs. 2006, you're greatly skewing the numbers.

EDIT: not to say Europe doesn't pull good weight, just that your assessment was stilted.

Since we don't have 2007 numbers for the US yet, I did my best.
It would require a 50% increase in US VG market to reach numbers that would compare to France's. This is completely possible. It could even be more than this, sure. But still, there wouldn't be a HUGE difference, and this is only considering one european country.

If you want year to year comparions, France's 2006 market was €1.9 billion. Should be €9.5 billion for the US market to be proportionally comparable. It isn't.

 

[squatingyeti]

Since we don't have 2007 numbers for the US yet, I did my best.
It would require a 50% increase in US VG market to reach numbers that would compare to France's. This is completely possible. It could even be more than this, sure. But still, there wouldn't be a HUGE difference, and this is only considering one european country.

If you want year to year comparions, France's 2006 market was €1.9 billion. Should be €9.5 billion for the US market to be proportionally comparable. It isn't.

The floundering of the dollar would also have something to do with this.

 

[Raist]

The floundering of the dollar would also have something to do with this.

Oh please now. Fine, I'll stop saying that the US market isn't an almighty juggernaut that makes EU market look like shit.

 

[squatingyeti]

Oh please now. Fine, I'll stop saying that the US market isn't an almighty juggernaut that makes EU market look like shit.

Way to take that comment all out of whack. I was simply saying the shitty dollar ALSO helps sales look a little less. Didn't say your whole stance was defeated. God, people around here are so sensitive.

 

[MrNyarlathotep]

Way to take that comment all out of whack. I was simply saying the shitty dollar ALSO helps sales look a little less. Didn't say your whole stance was defeated. God, people around here are so sensitive.

Start reading through this thread again from page 1 and you'll find people in this very thread convinced that the North American market is so important that it doesn't matter what happens anywhere else in the world, US IS DA BEST!

I know that is not what you are saying, but that's why people get touchy about the importance of the European market being downplayed, especially when I've seen a few analyst reports convinced that the growth of the European market (both figuratively and literally as more countries join the EU) is going to make it the largest worldwide market eventually.

Currency exchange differences don't really come into play when you take into account potential userbases (ie population) and quality of living costs (ie amount of money the average consumer has to spend on luxury items such as gaming)

 

[Raist]

Way to take that comment all out of whack. I was simply saying the shitty dollar ALSO helps sales look a little less. Didn't say your whole stance was defeated. God, people around here are so sensitive.

Well I'm sorry but that's like nitpicking to the max. I mean, the whole point was to say that EU market isn't that weak, and provide data to prove it. Now if you want to look for reasons to counter the fact that the US market isn't way ahead of Europe at all, ok, go ahead. But I'm sorry, those are not good reasons at all. Except if you want to prove that the US market actually is 3.146589% bigger because you have to factor in loads of stuff.

I mean, yeah, the dollar is weaker, so what ? That doesn't change the price of the games and consoles does it ? If a game costs $59, it won't cost $53 two weeks later because the dollar took a hit.

And you could always argue that a weak dollar is favorable to imports, thus weakening the EU market and strenghtening the US one.

 

[tjhooker]

even if MS would somehow wind up 3rd WW w/50M to the PS3 56M.

That scenario is impossible.

MS won't sell more than 25M consoles this gen especially with the dire situation in Europe and Japan.

Same as last gen.

 

[squatingyeti]

Well I'm sorry but that's like nitpicking to the max. I mean, the whole point was to say that EU market isn't that weak, and provide data to prove it. Now if you want to look for reasons to counter the fact that the US market isn't way ahead of Europe at all, ok, go ahead. But I'm sorry, those are not good reasons at all. Except if you want to prove that the US market actually is 3.146589% bigger because you have to factor in loads of stuff.

I mean, yeah, the dollar is weaker, so what ? That doesn't change the price of the games and consoles does it ? If a game costs $59, it won't cost $53 two weeks later because the dollar took a hit.

And you could always argue that a weak dollar is favorable to imports, thus weakening the EU market and strenghtening the US one.

No, my point is if you used an article or something that said the European market was X Euros in 2007 and the US market was Y in 2006, the weakened dollar (when converted to Euros by you today) would lower the amount. Once again, not discrediting your statement, I believe Europe is a very sizable market.

 

[squatingyeti]

That scenario is impossible.

MS won't sell more than 25M consoles this gen especially with the dire situation in Europe and Japan.

Same as last gen.

Then it is also impossible for Sony to reach the number I put for them with the dire situation in NA. You can dance around it all you want, but you just can't face the reality that MS has definitely gained huge ground this gen, while Sony, no matter what, has lost ground.

 

[Die Squirrel Die]

Then it is also impossible for Sony to reach the number I put for them with the dire situation in NA. You can dance around it all you want, but you just can't face the reality that MS has definitely gained huge ground this gen, while Sony, no matter what, has lost ground.

Has MS gained huge ground? What are the sales of the 360 like in comparison to where the Xbox was at the same point in its lifecycle? Marketshare is only relative to the size of the market. It seems to me that gains in MS's marketshare have more to do with the PS3 falling so extensively than the 360 have a significantly stronger performance than its predecessor.

 

[gkryhewy]

Heh, both sides spinning to the max :lol

Well I'm sorry but that's like nitpicking to the max.

You've got to give those crazy daredevils some respect for that

 

[Shoho]

france is the most visited country in the world. French people are pretty awesome... they are arrogant, true, but a part of it is justified because they truly are awesome. sacre bleu!11

 

[WTFing]

LTTP? Here's a quick 'résumé':

 

[Xisiqomelir]

LTTP? Here's a quick 'résumé':

Is your avatar a real picture or a 'chop?

 

[WTFing]

Is your avatar a real picture or a 'chop?

It's a real picture.

T-shirt "Freedom, go to Hell"
Price: Size
12€: S-M-L
15€: XL-XXL-XXXL!
pm

 

[tjhooker]

Then it is also impossible for Sony to reach the number I put

Stop believing MS PR.

This generation isn't 2-3 years long.

We just got started.

MS had a year to themselves and they've been wiped out by Wii in NA and PS3 has nearly done the same to it in Europe in under 9 months.

Sony will sell 50-75M consoles when all is said and done. Wii probably the same.

XBox 360 20-25M tops just like last gen.

 

[squatingyeti]

Stop believing MS PR.

This generation isn't 2-3 years long.

We just got started.

MS had a year to themselves and they've been wiped out by Wii in NA and PS3 has nearly done the same to it in Europe in under 9 months.

Sony will sell 50-75M consoles when all is said and done. Wii probably the same.

XBox 360 20-25M tops just like last gen.

PermaBan bet on the 360 numbers? If you're so confident be a man. Your trash has gone on long enough. Shit or get off the pot. I'm calling you out here and now. Permaban bet or shut it.

 

[squatingyeti]

Is your avatar a real picture or a 'chop?

Don't believe a word of that. There was a mass emailing showing a large gathering of people holding signs. They all said stupid shit like that. Unfortunately, they didn't expect people to notice the same person HAD to of wrote ALL the signs being held by MANY different people.

The idea someone tried to "capitalize" on this by making a T-shirt doesn't make it legit.

 

[Beer Monkey]

MS had a year to themselves and they've been wiped out by Wii in NA and PS3 has nearly done the same to it in Europe in under 9 months.

They are selling more systems at $349-$399 than they sold last gen at $179 and $149. That's a hell of an improvement and an indicator of longevity. 360 is going to outsell Xbox by a good margin.

Sony will sell 50-75M consoles when all is said and done.

That's pretty shitty after selling over 120 million last gen, but it keeps them in the business and that's good for gamers.

Wii probably the same.

You think PS3 and Wii will sell identical amounts of hardware this gen. :lol

 

[squatingyeti]

Has MS gained huge ground? What are the sales of the 360 like in comparison to where the Xbox was at the same point in its lifecycle? Marketshare is only relative to the size of the market. It seems to me that gains in MS's marketshare have more to do with the PS3 falling so extensively than the 360 have a significantly stronger performance than its predecessor.

You're saying 3rd parties haven't noticed the ridiculous sales the 360 brings? You're also saying Sony's "failing so extensively" isn't MS' gain?

 

[Dragon]

PermaBan bet on the 360 numbers? If you're so confident be a man. Your trash has gone on long enough. Shit or get off the pot. I'm calling you out here and now. Permaban bet or shut it.

When did NeoGAF turn into this childish mess?

 

[Beer Monkey]

Has MS gained huge ground? What are the sales of the 360 like in comparison to where the Xbox was at the same point in its lifecycle? Marketshare is only relative to the size of the market. It seems to me that gains in MS's marketshare have more to do with the PS3 falling so extensively than the 360 have a significantly stronger performance than its predecessor.

Let's pretend that the first gen, MS released a system with the pricing and sales of the 360, and the second gen they released a system with the pricing and sales of the Xbox.

Right now we'd be talking about how they had to slash the new system to $179 to still sell worse than the last system sold at $399 and $349. We would be discussing about what a massive failure the new system is compared to the old one.

Now, reverse the picture.

To anybody with objectivity, the 360 does indeed have 'significantly stronger performance' than its predecessor.

 

[justjohn]

PermaBan bet on the 360 numbers? If you're so confident be a man. Your trash has gone on long enough. Shit or get off the pot. I'm calling you out here and now. Permaban bet or shut it.

thug nerdz

 

[Raist]

When did NeoGAF turn into this childish mess?

permaban bet on the date ?

 

[tjhooker]

If you're so confident be a man. I'm calling you out here and now

Were you in a quivering rage when you typed that? You sound so angry :lol

Permaban bet or shut it.

Sure.

360 to be a distant 3rd this gen with 20-25M tops.

 

[squatingyeti]

Were you in a quivering rage when you typed that? You sound so angry :lol



Sure.

360 to be a distant 3rd this gen with 20-25M tops.

Yeah, quivering rage :lol. How about just tired of your incessant shit and calling you out? Problem is, you know you'll probably be perma before you actually have to admit you were so wrong and get the ban from this bet. I look forward to your humble withdraw after the 360 is nowhere near a "distant" 3rd and tops 25M.

 

[Dr. Kitty Muffins]

http://xbox-mag.net/la-ps3-bientot-devant-la-xbox-360-en-france__14742.html


Les données des ventes du jeu vidéo en France étant toujours aussi rares, on accueille avec plaisir un petit article récapitulatif paru dans le dernier numéro des Echos. Le bilan est inquiétant pour Microsoft, la PS3 étant sur le point de dépasser la Xbox 360 en termes d'unités écoulées.

Concrètement, il se serait vendu 563.000 PS3 en France depuis l'apparition de la console dans les rayons. La 360 serait encore en tête, mais de très peu, avec 589.000 unités. Selon les chiffres fournis par l'institut GfK, c'est durant les fêtes de fin d'année que la PS3 aurait considérablement réduit l'écart, avec l'avantage de la récente baisse de prix et un catalogue un peu plus fourni. La donnée qui fait mal, c'est bien entendu la différence entre les dates de sortie des deux machines : la Xbox 360 a été lancée dans l'Hexagone un an et quatre mois plus tôt que la nouvelle Playstation. Si la tendance reste la même, cette dernière devrait doubler sa concurrente durant les prochaines semaines.

"En vendant, en moyenne, trois fois plus de PS3 que de Xbox 360 par semaine, on a pris le dessus sur Microsoft" confirme Georges Fornay, vice-président de Sony Computer Entertainement Europe.

Du côté de Microsoft, on préfère ne retenir que le fait que la 360 est toujours devant.

"Sony est en mode de rattrapage mais nous conservons la tête du marché d'après nos données, même en France" assure François Ruault, directeur de le section loisirs de Microsoft en France.

Le duel PS3/Xbox 360, quelle que soit son issue, se déroule cependant à bonne distance du succès de la Wii, qui a pour sa part déjà dépassé le seuil du million d'unités écoulées dans l'Hexagone.


From what I read:

PS3 = 563,000

360 = 589,000


Not bad for the PS3 if I say so myself. According to the article this info comes from gfk.

Everyone kept saying the PS3 would own the 360 in France, but it didn't happen. Sonyland is a myth.

 

[Raist]

Everyone kept saying the PS3 would own the 360 in France, but it didn't happen. Sonyland is a myth.

Well...

PS3 : 563k in 9 months
360 : 589k in 25 months

 

[Mojovonio]

Were you in a quivering rage when you typed that? You sound so angry :lol



Sure.

360 to be a distant 3rd this gen with 20-25M tops.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=9363011&postcount=53

 

[squatingyeti]

Well...

PS3 : 563k in 9 months
360 : 589k in 25 months

I'm not at all trying to say the 360 is outselling the PS3 in france or germany or wherever else people want to say. No one knows what's going on in the UK and speculation about PR from either company is useless for actual numbers. I am saying, the PS3 has pretty much just been keeping pace with the 360. It needs to start outselling, and by good amounts ~300k+ a month to even catch up. Even doing that will take a couple years.

I AM saying the ridiculous notion that MS hasn't gained enormously from this generation and Sony hasn't suffered largely, is denial at its finest. Even if the 360 ends up in third, it won't be this gargantuan separation. I'd call that a major improvement for MS, and a big blow to Sony. No company wants a competitor eating up that much of their market.

 

[Raist]

I'm not at all trying to say the 360 is outselling the PS3 in france or germany or wherever else people want to say. No one knows what's going on in the UK and speculation about PR from either company is useless for actual numbers. I am saying, the PS3 has pretty much just been keeping pace with the 360. It needs to start outselling, and by good amounts ~300k+ a month to even catch up. Even doing that will take a couple years.

I AM saying the ridiculous notion that MS hasn't gained enormously from this generation and Sony hasn't suffered largely, is denial at its finest. Even if the 360 ends up in third, it won't be this gargantuan separation. I'd call that a major improvement for MS, and a big blow to Sony. No company wants a competitor eating up that much of their market.

I wasn't even answering to you, but yeah, ok.

 

[WTFing]

No one knows what's going on in the UK!
Calling Gordon.

 

[Raist]

No one knows what's going on in the UK!
Calling Gordon.

chart track do. Let's kidnap one of their members.

 

[Anerythristic]

:lol How is it not obvious TJ Hooker is a joke character? Why do people go back and forth with him?

TJ you know if you are not joking I strongly suggest you calm down and maybe talk to someone. If Playstation was a person you would be its stalker.

 

[WTFing]

chart track do. Let's kidnap one of their members.

These RROD lovers won't shut up untill the PS3 have +1 LTD sales in the UK over their console of choice. Soon.
As for your kidnapping proposition, Carla looks like a nice target. Chart track 'members' not so much for me

 

[squatingyeti]

These RROD lovers won't shut up untill the PS3 have +1 LTD sales in the UK over their console of choice. Soon.
As for your kidnapping proposition, Carla looks like a nice target. Chart track 'members' not so much for me

Wow, so RROD lovers, really? I mean :lol . Does that mean I'm a RROD lover AND a lower quality multiplatform game lover (my PS3) at the same time. It appears YOU may have a problem with YOUR console of choice.

EDIT: I must also be a DRE lover as I bought several PS2s over last generation, and they had all kinds of problems when I got a couple through the first year.

 

[duk]

mmm french fries. this thread is best served with ketchup and some ranch dressin.

 

[Anerythristic]

Please raise your hand if you frequent N4G. I can smell you guys a mile away. Raist you are from N4G, right?

 

[pr0cs]

Wow, so RROD lovers, really? I mean :lol . .

It's just some people blowing off steam because there will likely be much bloodshed in a few hours.

 

[Anerythristic]

It's just some people blowing off steam because there will likely be much bloodshed in a few hours.

Cmon, How many of these tikes will even step foot in that thread?

 

[WTFing]

Wow, so RROD lovers, really? I mean :lol . Does that mean I'm a RROD lover AND a lower quality multiplatform game lover (my PS3) at the same time. It appears YOU may have a problem with YOUR console of choice.

EDIT: I must also be a DRE lover as I bought several PS2s over last generation, and they had all kinds of problems when I got a couple through the first year.

What's up squatingyeti? Happy new year man.
2008

 

[Raist]

Please raise your hand if you frequent N4G. I can smell you guys a mile away. Raist you are from N4G, right?

Haven't been there for a while. I spent like 3 months over there. It was a fucking mess. I mean, trolling on GAF is like on a kindergaten level as compared to N4G :lol

 

[pr0cs]

Cmon, How many of these tikes will even step foot in that thread?

They will but it will be for damage control instead of trolling.

 

[Anerythristic]

Haven't been there for a while. I spent like 3 months over there. It was a fucking mess. I mean, trolling on GAF is like on a kindergaten level as compared to N4G :lol

I like you because you are honest.

 

[WTFing]

Anerythristic:
Cmon, How many of these tikes will even step foot in that thread?
pr0cs:
They will but it will be for damage control instead of trolling.

Are you talking about the Resistance 2 REVEAL thread?

 

[Anerythristic]

Are you talking about the Resistance 2 REVEAL thread?

Are you talking to me or him?

 

[WTFing]

both

 

[Rolf NB]

Everyone kept saying the PS3 would own the 360 in France, but it didn't happen. Sonyland is a myth.

Yeah, squeeze that shit out fast while it can still be remotely attached to the truth.

 

[APZonerunner]

Wow, going for the other reports we've got, Xbox360 really is a failure in Europe.

Pretty much, yeah. Strangely only in mainland Europe, though, in the UK it's a huge success. Maybe MS' strategy just really doesn't appeal to non-english speakers? Japan and Euroland are failures for the 360, while America and the UK are successes.