akilshohen
Member
you forgot Megaman and Pac-Man
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Planned DLC content for SFxTekken found on the original disc
- Thread starter rocK`
- Start date
Yes, this is probably my biggest issue with the whole thing. Hopefully they'll rethink this since this issue came up with AE on PC with them wanting to lock characters if you were offline....meaning if you pirated/cracked the game you'd have a better experience.
ThatCrazyGuy
Member
He deserves to work in their boxart division, confirmed.
This has been going on for a long time, I remember the first time I noticed was hot shots on ps3 , bought a course and it was 100kb , obviously it was already on the disc.
There is no defending this shit honestly and its sad that anyone can even comprehend defending this.
Im not buying this game anyways , as someone mentioned however its not technically dlc if its already on the disc , and this is probably the first time ive seen it playable.so quickly by hax...its awesome for hackers , and it sheds light on how fufking greedy game companies are becoming.
Would I feel.any better if it wasnt on the disc? Sadly , I would but only ever so slightly.
Dlc in general is BS...stupid consoles all extra stuff like.dlc.used to be free on pc...I remember laughing at people having to pay for 3 map packs in world at war when I had it free on pc.
PC is now in this hole too...look at all cods past WaW for an exammple,, its sad to pay 15$ for like 3 maps...
Same shit withx fighting games , rly I gotta pay for a few extra characters ? Think about it , its ridiculous.
Anyways /rant
There is no defending this shit honestly and its sad that anyone can even comprehend defending this.
Im not buying this game anyways , as someone mentioned however its not technically dlc if its already on the disc , and this is probably the first time ive seen it playable.so quickly by hax...its awesome for hackers , and it sheds light on how fufking greedy game companies are becoming.
Would I feel.any better if it wasnt on the disc? Sadly , I would but only ever so slightly.
Dlc in general is BS...stupid consoles all extra stuff like.dlc.used to be free on pc...I remember laughing at people having to pay for 3 map packs in world at war when I had it free on pc.
PC is now in this hole too...look at all cods past WaW for an exammple,, its sad to pay 15$ for like 3 maps...
Same shit withx fighting games , rly I gotta pay for a few extra characters ? Think about it , its ridiculous.
Anyways /rant
Meh, people that are going to buy it on consoles don't care at all. Kinda funny how the mentality between console and pc players differ when presented with pretty much shitty DRM when it comes down to it.
Fuck Capcom. What a miserable, piece of shit company that does nothing but literally shit on all their fans and while some of those fans will roll around in it and play with it like a pig in mud they continue to defile them by raping their wallets by piecemealing content.
I love how Capcom is trying to spin this too. "Well you guys didn't like how we did Ultimate MvC3 in the same fiscal year last time so this time we're just including the characters on the disc but locking it for an undisclosed period of time and money so we can get you to pay twice for the same game."
Has any other company done so much in a single generation to shed all of the goodwill they've built up over multiple console generations?
Mega Man Legends 3 cancellation was probably the biggest joke ever with how apparently fans were supposed to do the actual development work for Capcom.
The whole MvC3 -> 9 months later UMvC3 is just more taste of DLCrapcom at its finest.
devil may cry outsourced and looks like ass.
Dead Rising 2 doesn't star the character from the first game because they want to tell us a different story. A year later suddenly they want to do a 'What if we actually did put Frank in DR2?' story and release it as a game? Seriously?
Resident Evil 4 Wii edition sells great so what comes next...a lightgun game? And it actually sells decent...so why not release another lightgun game instead of RE5 Wii edition? Oh, not possible? Why fucking bother with Dead Rising CTYD on Wii?
I'm sure I'm forgetting some more here.
I love how Capcom is trying to spin this too. "Well you guys didn't like how we did Ultimate MvC3 in the same fiscal year last time so this time we're just including the characters on the disc but locking it for an undisclosed period of time and money so we can get you to pay twice for the same game."
Has any other company done so much in a single generation to shed all of the goodwill they've built up over multiple console generations?
Mega Man Legends 3 cancellation was probably the biggest joke ever with how apparently fans were supposed to do the actual development work for Capcom.
The whole MvC3 -> 9 months later UMvC3 is just more taste of DLCrapcom at its finest.
devil may cry outsourced and looks like ass.
Dead Rising 2 doesn't star the character from the first game because they want to tell us a different story. A year later suddenly they want to do a 'What if we actually did put Frank in DR2?' story and release it as a game? Seriously?
Resident Evil 4 Wii edition sells great so what comes next...a lightgun game? And it actually sells decent...so why not release another lightgun game instead of RE5 Wii edition? Oh, not possible? Why fucking bother with Dead Rising CTYD on Wii?
I'm sure I'm forgetting some more here.
This is what pisses me off the most about the whole situation. You have defenders willing to gobble this up the second it pops up on the PSN/XBL. And people saying 'Vote with you wallet, Capcom will get the message'.
SMH.
Resident Evil: The Mercenaries comes to mind. They really messed up with that game. No Leon, or the others that were in RE5's mercs. Expect Mercs 2, except this time without some key characters in Mercs 1.
OMG that IS heinous.
You're not going to get your PC bricked for hacking.
I expect to see the PC version of this do well once a crack for the DLC is out , which will take a day.
kunonabi
Member
The clusterfuck that was SSFIV AE comes to mind. These are pretty much all the reasons that I've just flat out decided to stop purchasing Capcom products. I admit it wasn't a difficult decision with Asura's Wrath, Dragon's Dogma, RE6, DmC, and SFXT being completely unappealing to me. I'll probably suffer through RE6 with my brother since he will buy it and I want to see what outbreak's director is capable of at the helm of a mainline title.
And there has been a defense force for every stupid thing they've been doing. A lot of people are voting for their wallets here, it won't make a difference. Capcom is not going to learn anything, there's too many other people that will keep supporting this stuff.
Kai Dracon
Writing a dinosaur space opera symphony
And BlazBlue fans who bought all the DLC characters for Continuum Shift got to see Extend announced as a disc-only release shortly after the last DLC character came out, for $40 bux and having only 1 new character. I guess everyone's already forgotten about that.
This reminds me of system wars mentality. Remember gems like this?
"You simpering microsoft fanboys, buying another Xbox after one died! You're part of the problem! You're ruining the industry! STOP SPENDING MONEY! I COMMAND YOU!"
People love to say "vote with your wallet", actually, when they want everyone to do what they say in order to send a message to the industry. What they don't like however, is when the vote goes against them.
You don't like it when you wish to hate on Capcom and want to see them fail, so if people still buy Capcom games because they're worth the money to those people, the only choice is to contextualize those fans as morons who can't tell they're being taken advantage of. See also: years of people insulting anyone who plays Call of Duty, or buys Madden football year after year. Because those people did vote with their wallets. The outcome of the election just wasn't what some people desired.
The wacky part about this latest storm over DLC is that if the 12 DLC characters didn't exist, nobody would be griping that SFxT was incomplete, overpriced, gouging, or in any way "raping" fans. It has a hell of a lot of characters, just over half of which are entirely new. More new characters than have ever been put into a single fighting game release... ever, maybe.
That is why freaking over DLC can look so overblown. It's just a matter of perception. Stick 12 characters data files on disc = game instantly becomes shit and the sun eclipses and puppies burst into fire across the globe. Remove 12 data files from disc and it's "
"'s forever?How does that work!
Hell, I don't even agree with the entire situation, as it is obviously screwed up due to Sony bribing Capcom to further contort content and release schedules just so they can push Vitas and Playstation.
... but the usual wailing about DLC, death of industry, anyone who likes Capcom games being a mindless puppet, etc, is just stupid.
For me, the 38 characters that ship with the game and are unlocked are worth $60. Fighting games are worth the money. With 38 characters, you are getting hours (100+) of gameplay.
Did you ever think the extra characters on the disc where actually made out of budget? That this wasn't part of their budget or planning and they are hoping to make the money back? Maybe it's all a gamble for them and if it fails, they fail big time.
But, by shipping it on the disc, they fix main problem Mortal Kombat has with their DLC characters. If you have a problem with it, stop calling it DLC... call it "Paid Unlocks" and move on.
Did you ever think the extra characters on the disc where actually made out of budget? That this wasn't part of their budget or planning and they are hoping to make the money back? Maybe it's all a gamble for them and if it fails, they fail big time.
But, by shipping it on the disc, they fix main problem Mortal Kombat has with their DLC characters. If you have a problem with it, stop calling it DLC... call it "Paid Unlocks" and move on.
Here comes the Capcom "defense force"!
How about an honest answer to these?:
Do you really think these characters would even exist if not expressly made to be sold as DLC? (yes or no only please)
Do you really think they would have put 50 characters on the disc with no development or planning done on any future DLC during main development? (yes or no only please)
I'm not looking to argue the general concept of selling content piecemeal, or whether making content just to sell later is right or wrong. I'm just looking for people to calm down and think about these questions realistically for a minute.
How about an honest answer to these?:
Do you really think these characters would even exist if not expressly made to be sold as DLC? (yes or no only please)
Do you really think they would have put 50 characters on the disc with no development or planning done on any future DLC during main development? (yes or no only please)
I'm not looking to argue the general concept of selling content piecemeal, or whether making content just to sell later is right or wrong. I'm just looking for people to calm down and think about these questions realistically for a minute.
"Two Shay"
kunonabi
Member
38 characters is great for a fighter. 38/50 is not. You aren't getting the complete roster which is important for competitive play and local gatherings. There are plenty of things they could have made into DLC without splintering the roster. I don't find value in paying full price for a game when I'm only getting 3/4 of the core content.
What if Namco released Tekken on home consoles but made the time release characters from the arcade into paid DLC? Would that be alright?
Fighting games are a different beast from FPS games and rpgs.
Not really in terms of fanaticism of the community, which is what makes DLC work.
Shao Kahn Brewing a Stew
Banned
CountAntonius
Member
That's funny I enjoy Capcom games and butt doesn't feel sore at all.
Laughing Banana
Weeping Pickle
Acceptance to business practices like this is the reason why we get things like Ridge Racer Vita or Prince of Persia 2008.
Wait, how exactly was this a clusterfuck? AE was a downloadable expansion pack that was also available as a bundled disc copy if you didn't already own SSF4.
That's doing it the RIGHT way!
Seventy_X_Seven
Member
I'm assuming most people are upset that they found DLC locked on disc? But really if you value of the game to you is worth what you paid for, why does it matter if there is extra stuff on the disc that's locked? What if a publisher simply wanted to wait to release a product so they could put the DLC on the disc with space that would of otherwise be blank and then you don't have to download some large file size and it helps with compatibility?
Let me get this straight, if a game releases and is worth the value and then releases DLC later that you have to buy and then download taking up valuable space it's awesome, but if a game releases and is worth the value and then releases DLC that's already on your disc it's evil?
People should really look at these sort of things from a value perspective instead of feeling entitled to everything. And that's not to say a developer can't abuse this, because they can. If you find it's not worth the value with the locked content then don't buy it so they know they did it wrong, but if the game they sell at base value is well worth the value then why is locked content bad?
Let me get this straight, if a game releases and is worth the value and then releases DLC later that you have to buy and then download taking up valuable space it's awesome, but if a game releases and is worth the value and then releases DLC that's already on your disc it's evil?
People should really look at these sort of things from a value perspective instead of feeling entitled to everything. And that's not to say a developer can't abuse this, because they can. If you find it's not worth the value with the locked content then don't buy it so they know they did it wrong, but if the game they sell at base value is well worth the value then why is locked content bad?
And this is the sad thing. People on GAF went "yeah, it's scuzzy but OMG STRIDER!" to the Alpha vs Beta 3: Fate of Buying the Same Damn Game Nine Months Later debacle. :|
SolarPowered
Member
The content delivery method itself was great, the content itself was meh. Ono's team manufacturing top tiers and whatnot. Yunverine and all that jazz.
Hopefully they stay with the AE delivery method and put some actual thought into balancing(which they've gotten better at over time).
Point of order, as someone not versed in this: Are people who worked on developing the game permitted to compete in tournaments? After all, they've had access to the characters in advance, too, and even had the opportunity to implement secret advantages on a given character they favour.
Riposte
Member
People have really put themselves on the warpath against Capcom and are looking to insult anyone who stands in their way. Since when is a little controversy a good excuse to act like children? Sorry if some NeoGAF posters who spend more time thinking about and appreciating videogame content don't really care about your crusade. Hopefully you can stop calling them morons or at least a mod could make you stop. Failing that, there is always the next big Kotaku scoop you can move on to.
Freeza Under The Shower
Member
It seems more likely they don't want to pay for the hosting that downloadable DLC would require. It's a dinosaur-style approach that could easily be avoided by simply not putting the content on the physical disk that people buy, and therefore own.
Just because IP law now states that this is not so, doesn't mean everyone doesn't just expect it. I for one, will not buy any product I know to be basically 'just a scam'. Why would I?
Btw, I do not really disagree with the 'acceptable amount of content' proposition (I cannot change what is on the disk after all), but I do disagree with trying to cut on costs and putting the content on the very disk I would buy.
#1 and #3 are the same as one another. The DLC cost for consumers who don't buy the vita version is absorbed by Sony on the Vita version. If it's easier, imagine that every Vita comes with a free voucher to download the Vita version of the DLC.
#2 is not a profit *from those twelve characters*. They're profiting from the 38 characters in the original game.
(Also, they're probably not *profiting* much from #2 at all. Margins are slim on boxed product. That's a major reason why DLC exists in the first place)
Raging Spaniard
If they are Dutch, upright and breathing they are more racist than your favorite player
Thats a whole different issue, thats bad content vs good delivery.
With SFxTK, its the other way around.
Enjoy paying another $60 for a "NEW TO THIS VERSION OF STREET VS JUGGLEKEN! TOURNAMENT NO-GEM MODE! WE HEARD YOU!" nine months down the line, dude. I'm sure you'll continue to defend Capcom's shitty practice because they "revived the fighting game genre and should be applauded."
The FGC continuing to turn their cheeks over this is sad. They should be demanding more from Capcom (and other publishers that are now going that trend, sup Blazblue Extend?!) if we're going to have to pay $60 a pop on a yearly basis with no guarantee that your brand new $60 title is going to last more than a year before they pop out an "update" with "one new character!" (Sup, BB, again!) to make you rebuy it because "tournament legal" needs the latest and greatest instead of going "no, fuck you, no sale."
Seventy_X_Seven
Member
That's just not true. You are not paying for the disc, you are paying for the game on the disc. If the publisher wants to put extra content on the disc that doesn't mean you therefore own it. There are so many analogies and comparisons that can be made here. And once again, as long as what you're actually paying for is worth the value it shouldn't matter.
LightofRohan
Member
PolarBearsClub
Member
And BlazBlue fans who bought all the DLC characters for Continuum Shift got to see Extend announced as a disc-only release shortly after the last DLC character came out, for $40 bux and having only 1 new character. I guess everyone's already forgotten about that.
This reminds me of system wars mentality. Remember gems like this?
"You simpering microsoft fanboys, buying another Xbox after one died! You're part of the problem! You're ruining the industry! STOP SPENDING MONEY! I COMMAND YOU!"
People love to say "vote with your wallet", actually, when they want everyone to do what they say in order to send a message to the industry. What they don't like however, is when the vote goes against them.
You don't like it when you wish to hate on Capcom and want to see them fail, so if people still buy Capcom games because they're worth the money to those people, the only choice is to contextualize those fans as morons who can't tell they're being taken advantage of. See also: years of people insulting anyone who plays Call of Duty, or buys Madden football year after year. Because those people did vote with their wallets. The outcome of the election just wasn't what some people desired.
The wacky part about this latest storm over DLC is that if the 12 DLC characters didn't exist, nobody would be griping that SFxT was incomplete, overpriced, gouging, or in any way "raping" fans. It has a hell of a lot of characters, just over half of which are entirely new. More new characters than have ever been put into a single fighting game release... ever, maybe.
That is why freaking over DLC can look so overblown. It's just a matter of perception. Stick 12 characters data files on disc = game instantly becomes shit and the sun eclipses and puppies burst into fire across the globe. Remove 12 data files from disc and it's "
How does that work!
Hell, I don't even agree with the entire situation, as it is obviously screwed up due to Sony bribing Capcom to further contort content and release schedules just so they can push Vitas and Playstation.
... but the usual wailing about DLC, death of industry, anyone who likes Capcom games being a mindless puppet, etc, is just stupid.
I find the backlash to be misinformed, filled with too many butt jokes, and in many cases hypocritical. But this is another example of Capcom is taking its consumers for granted. You don't defend shitty business behavior by citing other examples of other shitty business behavior. The fact is people who will never buy a PSVita have to wait 6 months to pay for something they already physically own. And it isn't just something like costumes or stages; it's 12 characters. I understand that this generation of gamers suffers from irrational entitlement issues, but I don't think it's unreasonable for people to be upset in this case. Consumers have rights. They should feel entitled to use the things they have paid a lot of money for.
And yeah, if the 12 extra characters were never announced and if they didn't exist no one would complain. The reason for that is because there would be no evidence of Capcom putting immediate profits for its game via Sony $, before actually trying to create a good relationship with its consumers. On disc DLC like this, both because of the actual content and the context for why it exists in the first place, sets a foul precedent for the type of stuff that's to come from gaming companies. They are taking advantage of people who will buy their games no matter what (including me in the past; I bought UMVC3 and SSF4 day one). I don't think its the death of the industry but I do think that if they keep up with this strategy of milking games/fans for all their worth over and over it will eventually bite them in the ass.
Actually, the fact they keep doing it shows they learned they can do it and people will still buy it.
The folks who this hurts them with are the folks who were on the fence, such as myself.
Most of your Capcom haters weren't going to buy the game period. I was in that boat, but seeing the changes made me want to give it a chance. I still might, but not on day 1.
I want to at least wait for Skullgirls and this game to come out on PC before buying. It's not like I intend to play this in tournies.
SolarPowered
Member
I'm pretty sure it's bans across the board. Mike Z was contacted a few months ago by many tournament organizers and told that he could not compete in official tournaments for Skullgirls as an example. Side tournies and locals should be clear though.
Kunonabi didn't specify what AE's problem was so I just put the general consensus on that version out there.
I'm aware that it is flipped in this case.
A little aside anecdote I'd wonder what people think of.
PKUNZIP, for anyone not using a PC in the 90's or so, was a simple archive extractor for ZIP files. It was ubiquitous, and it was shareware.
I purchased a product (I *think* it was a magazine covermounted disc, but I don't recall for certain) which included some .ZIPped games, and a copy of pkunzip to extract them.
Due to an error at the mastering stage, the copy of pkunzip was, in fact, the registered version. The magazine had no right to distribute the registered version of the extractor, but as a result of their mistake, I own a disc with a registered copy of pkunzip on it.
Do I own a registered copy of pkunzip?
bigdaddygamebot
Member
It's neither.
This and your example is completely fucked.
Capcom...only Capcom would do this and think it's better than what they have done to the customers previously.
iKeepPlaying
Banned
You don't "own" the license of the product per se. But you're free to use it, because it came with the CD which you bought alongside the magazine.
Why am I free to use a product that I'm not licensed to use for which the license holders have not given me the right to use nor the magazine the right to distribute?
The choice of buying the DLC is up to you. No one is forcing you. As for me... I'll be buying the game, every DLC (not color shit) and other Capcom games. its the reality of gaming these days. Those $60 you pay aren't the same $60 you paid 5 years ago. They gotta keep up with realities, this is one of those ways.
Freeza Under The Shower
Member
Shouldn't, wouldn't, but yet it still does. I do not disagree with the idea, but I do disagree with its application. Those are different things. Mainly being that one is rational and the other is not-so rational.
The cultural ideal of the commodity is ownership. You buy it, you own it. It may not be true (aside from our bodies, no possession is ever truly ours... and not even that), but that is the type of faith capitalism is build on.
Despite recent changes in the type of ownership, cultural ideals do not change all that fast. The value of ownership will continue to clash with the value of what we are willing to pay for things. This conflict will continue to occur if Capcom continues to go against the ideal, while it could simply avoid it by not putting the content on the disk.
The solution to this problem is so incredibly easy that it boggles the mind that Capcom would even consider doing this thing in the first place. I realize certification times on XBL and PSN are ridiculous and all, but surely a small delay is far more acceptable than outraging your entire consumer base?
kunonabi
Member
The twins + plus nerfing the vast majority of the roster like SolarPowered said.
So surely by the same token, anyone who unlocks the content in advance should be banned from a tournament?
You seem to basically be claiming that what they've done is fine, but they really should have hidden it better? I'd like to believe that the consumer base is rational and pragmatic enough to recognise the fact that it's still the same action behind the scenes no matter how well it's hidden from view.
ihearthawthats
Banned
do you not understand the meaning of extra dlc characters? you don't have to rebuy the game a year from now. the characters are being added to the game as dlc. purchase the characters you want, whether that be 1 of them, all of them or none of them. you already have the "tournament legal" version of the game and are able to play with anyone else who buys 1 of the them, all of them or none of them.
this is definitely not the same situation as umvc3. besides, umvc3 was $40.
i'm not even sure why lasting more than a year should be relevant anyways when tons of people buy "20 hour" games. ea's fifa/madden/etc last only a year as well. the cod games are pretty close to yearly releases, as are many other franchises.
iKeepPlaying
Banned
Think of it as a permanent service. The fact that you don't own a service, doesn't mean that you can't use it. If by mistake, every single person that bought a certain product, got free massages for the rest of their life, what would you do?
ThatCrazyGuy
Member
How would you even prove that?
Besides, it's not the same thing. He can't enter official tournaments for the game because he works for the company that makes the game, not because he got to play it early or have early access. It like if you work for coke, you can't enter coke sponsored contests.
Game journalists aren't banned from tournaments. I got SFxTekken last week. Am I banned from tournaments?
crimzonflame
Member
I dont know how successful Capcom thinks the DLC will be if they release it in the fall. The majority of people probably wont be playing or have traded it in already.
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