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[brainchild]

Yeah, I mostly agree with this, and I think it's a solid post.

I think you can either argue that the letter of the rules was subverted or that the spirit of the rules was subverted.

Everybody seems to agree that the eventual delegate outcome reflected the will of the voters (which I feel like is even just factual so how would you disagree). So I think the "spirit of the rules" argument is kind of dead in the water.

So the argument seems to be about the letter of the rules. This is fine but, as I posted in the other thread, I think that people have just misunderstood the rules, and also I feel like it's a fundamentally weaker argument to say that even though things worked out for the best you are still mad about the process by which things worked out for the best, and then go on to argue that people should subvert the process to make things work out in your favor. Again, it strikes me as taking whatever argument is most effective for Bernie in a given situation, rather than actually having clear and supportable principles!

Wrong. My stance on this matter would not have changed even if the outcome was favorable to Bernie. That the outcome was as it should have been is just a coincidence. The conduct by both sides has been egregious and unacceptable.

 

[thepotatoman]

I can't believe the Washington Nationals have a Herbert Hoover among their presidential mascots that race. Herbert G D Hoover. It's Washington, Jefferson, Lincoln, Teddy Roosevelt, Taft, and out of nowhere, Herbert Hoover. One of these things is not like the other.

I guess he was president right in the middle of the golden era of baseball and Babe Ruth and thus spoke about it with an importance that baseball fans like to pretend baseball has today.

Of course same can be said about FDR, but I guess he's a polarizing figure right now.

 

[Joe Shlabotnik]

Yeah.

Odd thing is Trump's numbers don't seem to be rising so much as Hillary's are just falling. Lot of odd 42-40 kind of results while the undecideds go up.

She'll get a bounce once the primary's over and as you say she gets an Obama endorsement.

Looks like kinda the opposite to me.

http://polltracker.talkingpointsmemo.com/contests/us-president-2016

He's picking up capitulating Republican "independents" I'd say.

 

[Metaphoreus]

As someone who only pays a little attention to the Supreme Court, Scalia always seemed like a hack, so I'm not sure why you liked him so much (if that is what your post is sugusting). He changed his line of reasoning to fit the outcome that he personally wanted most. Thomas at least seems more principled.

I do prefer Thomas, but the complaints about Scalia being a hack are overrated (and all from the left, for what that's worth). His opinions in criminal cases, for example, often didn't match his own "tough on crime" conservatism.

 

[NeoXChaos]

https://www.ralstonreports.com/blog/business-state-democratic-chairwoman-oversees-targeted-berners

Irate Berne Sanders supporters did not just leave threatening voicemails and texts for state Democratic Party Chairwoman Roberta Lange but also launched an assault on the businesses she oversees, the owner says.

Tom Gallagher, the former Caesars CEO and congressional candidate, said that his son's tavern, the Porchlight Grille, began receiving threats shortly after the convention ended in chaos Saturday. Lange is the day operations manager there.

"Beginning about 3am on Sunday morning our bartenders at Porchlight Grille began getting non-stop phone threats from Bernie partisans," Gallagher told me via email. "The level of threats including death threats and vitriol was astonishing. One of our bartenders was actually a Bernie supporter and was stunned at the threats he was hearing on the phone. He began to respond telling people that he was just trying to do his job and pay off his student loans and their tactics were harming his livelihood. It made no difference to the callers. Their goal was to harass and as became clear....to shut down the business and Roberta’s job with it."

Gallagher said the calls continued during the day Sunday until the eatery disconnected the phone.

"At one point on Sunday before we unplugged the phones, I took a turn at answering and experienced such a nasty call that a Metro officer who happened to be in the tavern as a customer picked up the call and attempted to encourage the woman to stop, explaining that what she was doing was unlawful harassment," Gallagher told me. "It made no difference. She actually responded that it was her right of free speech."

And then the social media assault commenced.

From Gallagher: "The Porchlight website and Facebook page were similarly attacked with threats, including by someone who set up a fake 'Roberta Lange' ID on Facebook and then posted on the Porchlight Facebook page incredibly slanderous attacks against both Roberta and her husband Ken, including a post by the so-called 'Roberta Lange' that accused her husband Ken of crimes against children!"

Gallagher then said people began posting negative reviews of the business on Yelp "claiming all kind of bad experiences. On the Google site for the tavern someone posted that it was “permanently closed”! We have so far been unable to get Google to correct this. Needless to say our business has been affected negatively. In 50 years in politics I have never seen stuff like this.

 

[balladofwindfishes]

More abandon the sinking ship

I wonder if he even makes it to California.

 

[Ophelion]

Wow. That's horrible. I do wonder though if this striking a little closer to home will get some politicians to look more closely at passing legislation that better protects people from this kind of harassment. That's the only silver lining I can think of for this kind of thing.

 

[B-Dubs]

https://www.ralstonreports.com/blog/business-state-democratic-chairwoman-oversees-targeted-berners

I saw this in the other thread and the fact he can't seem to make himself come out and denounce this shit is just infuriating beyond belief.

 

[Bowdz]

I saw this in the other thread and the fact he can't seem to make himself come out and denounce this shit is just infuriating beyond belief.

I've lost all of my respect for Bernie in the last two weeks. He hasn't condemned any of this shit, keeps stoking the flames, and keeps hitting Hillary and the Democratic party while claiming to be running a clean campaign. He is an embarrassment to the cause he purports to be part of.

 

[BlastProcessing]

I saw this in the other thread and the fact he can't seem to make himself come out and denounce this shit is just infuriating beyond belief.

He is desperate to get to the next news cycle so he won't engage on this at all.

Putting politics and ego ahead of what's right. Way to go Sanders! You really know how to stick it to those evil politicians!

 

[benicillin]

https://www.ralstonreports.com/blog/business-state-democratic-chairwoman-oversees-targeted-berners

This has been written on the wall for months. This is politics, this is social media, this is everything now. And it's never gonna stop until they find a way to address targeted internet harassment.

 

[Orbis Tabula]

|OT6| is going o be about the primary still or the general? We're so close I can almost taste June.

I vote for this as the next thread title.

Well they couldn't very well have FDR in a race now could they?

Booo!

Spoiler

hahaha, I laughed

I guess he was president right in the middle of the golden era of baseball and Babe Ruth and thus spoke about it with an importance that baseball fans like to pretend baseball has today.

Of course same can be said about FDR, but I guess he's a polarizing figure right now.

Yeah, that's fair enough. The only thing I know about almost every president is the one line they each had in a song I memorized as a way to study for my AP US History exam, so the extent of my knowledge on Hoover is "Hoover screwed the pooch in the Great Depression."

 

[Dan]

Bernie Sanders is officially a piece of shit. He has less integrity than 2008's John McCain.

 

[The Technomancer]

This has been written on the wall for months. This is politics, this is social media, this is everything now. And it's never gonna stop until they find a way to address targeted internet harassment.

To an extent yes. But I haven't heard of anything of this magnitude out of the Clinton supporter camp. Hell, I don't think I heard of anything of this magnitude out of the Cruz camp. I'm sure Trump supporters have gotten up to similar fuckery but that's bad company to be keeping

 

[TheLostBigBoss]

More abandon the sinking ship

I wonder if he even makes it to California.

I think he'll make it in the sense that he won't drop out, but his campaign is going to be a ghost town with zero official support or resources and is basically going to be coasting on the backs of his current insane BernieBro crew.

Unless of course we get two major upsets today and Clinton takes both states, if he loses Oregon that might actually put a dagger in the campaign.

 

[benicillin]

To an extent yes. But I haven't heard of anything of this magnitude out of the Clinton supporter camp. Hell, I don't think I heard of anything of this magnitude out of the Cruz camp. I'm sure Trump supporters have gotten up to similar fuckery but that's bad company to be keeping

If it wasn't Sanders it would be someone else, because those votes and memes have to end up somewhere. They all just happened to coalesce around an old white socialist from Vermont that barely anyone had heard of. If Ron Paul was running today you'd see the same behavior out of his wildest crazy supporters.

In four years when Hillary is running for re-election, whoever Reddit decides is the meme candidate will have supporters that behave the same way.

 

[Dominican Power]

Bernie supporters are definitely not gonna help Hillary. Bernie has created a monster.

 

[blackw0lf]

Wow

http://www.vox.com/2016/5/17/11686336/bernie-sanders-lost-democratic-nomination

Sanders himself might be part of the reason about 40 percent of his supporters don't think Hillary Clinton is the most likely person to become the Democratic Party's nominee.

How can you look at the delegate math and not realize that it's likely that Hillary is most likely the democratic nominee?

And 40% of his supporters think this way? I figured it might be 5 or 10 tops.

 

[Bronx-Man]

If it wasn't Sanders it would be someone else, because those votes and memes have to end up somewhere. They all just happened to coalesce around an old white socialist from Vermont that barely anyone had heard of. If Ron Paul was running today you'd see the same behavior out of his wildest crazy supporters.

In four years when Hillary is running for re-election, whoever Reddit decides is the meme candidate will have supporters that behave the same way.

Rand Paul, come on down!

 

[B-Dubs]

If it wasn't Sanders it would be someone else, because those votes and memes have to end up somewhere. They all just happened to coalesce around an old white socialist from Vermont that barely anyone had heard of. If Ron Paul was running today you'd see the same behavior out of his wildest crazy supporters.

In four years when Hillary is running for re-election, whoever Reddit decides is the meme candidate will have supporters that behave the same way.

It's worse now because they managed to pick the only other candidate in a two-person race. If Biden were in this, going blow for blow with Clinton, the crazed Bernie supporters would get 0 oxygen and probably wouldn't have gotten this bad.

Rand Paul, come on down!

He was never pure enough, nor anti-establishment enough, for the crazy cultists.

 

[Orpheus]

I truly wish Bernie had been the candidate I thought he was when he announced. I would have loved to vote for that guy.

It's all good, though. I get to vote for Hillary two times now.

 

[benicillin]

Bernie supporters are definitely not gonna help Hillary. Bernie has created a monster.

The vast majority of them will. BernieOrBust is just HillaryIs44 2016 Edition. The majority of Bernie's supporters are Democrats or Democrat-leaning independents who want nothing to do with a Donald Trump presidency.

 

[User 463088]

I mean, I know some of the behavior of some Bernie supporters has been completely unacceptable, and we're never going to win some of them. BUT speaking as a Hillary 2008 supporter there has to be a grieving process. For a lot of these kids this is their first time at the rodeo. In that certainty of youth, they just know that they are so right. Their voice is amplified by the online echo chamber they live in. Some of them have done damage to the party and to Bernie ideology. Bernie needs to own that and fix it. I don't know that he will, because the wheels have come off the bus. He never had control of his campaign or the rhetoric that surrounded it. That's the real shame in this.

 

[studyguy]

I think he'll make it in the sense that he won't drop out, but his campaign is going to be a ghost town with zero official support or resources and is basically going to be coasting on the backs of his current insane BernieBro crew.

Unless of course we get two major upsets today and Clinton takes both states, if he loses Oregon that might actually put a dagger in the campaign.

Sanders has rallies already scheduled in the bay and down in LA somewhere. He's gonna make it. Whether the ship will be under water by then though, who knows. The guy clearly is going to keep the shambling corpse of the campaign rolling though.

I mean, I know some of the behavior of some Bernie supporters has been completely unacceptable, and we're never going to win some of them. BUT speaking as a Hillary 2008 supporter there has to be a grieving process. For a lot of these kids this is their first time at the rodeo. In that certainty of youth, they just know that they are so right. Their voice is amplified by the online echo chamber they live in. Some of them have done damage to the party and to Bernie ideology. Bernie needs to own that and fix it. I don't know that he will, because the wheels have come off the bus. He never had control of his campaign or the rhetoric that surrounded it. That's the real shame in this.

I just need to see how he endorses at the end of the campaign. It'll probably be some kind of backhanded endorsement warning of Trump moreso than pumping up Hillary. It's gonna be awful to watch that train come to a stop.

 

[RastaMentality]

Wow

http://www.vox.com/2016/5/17/11686336/bernie-sanders-lost-democratic-nomination



How can you look at the delegate math and not realize that it's likely that Hillary is most likely the democratic nominee?

And 40% of his supporters think this way? I figured it might be 5 or 10 tops.

A lot of people still think he has a fighting chance. I see it on campus all the time. That's why there hasn't been much coalescing around her.

 

[User 463088]

Benchmark reporting low turnout in college areas in Kentucky because school is out.

 

[TheLostBigBoss]

Benchmark reporting low turnout in college areas in Kentucky because school is out.

ruh roh

 

[Orpheus]

Bernie supporters are definitely not gonna help Hillary. Bernie has created a monster.

I think most of them will. At the end of the day, online communities still aren't representative of the overall picture. There's definitely a group of Bernie supporters who won't support Hillary, but it seems that most of those people never would have voted for her to begin with. The average Bernie supporter is likely still a Democrat, and they'll pull the lever for Hillary come November.

I mean, we're hearing about him walking into his campaign office and no one being there. If his volunteers are bailing, I can't imagine his normal everyday supporters are still going. The people that are left seem to be the ones who somehow think Hillary has stolen the election.

Benchmark reporting low turnout in college areas in Kentucky because school is out.

Damn establishment schools. /s

 

[Bowdz]

Benchmark reporting low turnout in college areas in Kentucky because school is out.

FRAUD!!! WILL OF THE PEOPLE CORRUPT OLIGARCHY MONEY IN POLITICS *FINGER WAG*

 

[whyamihere]

Whoa, huge turnout at post offices in Portland!

 

[kess]

Rand Paul, come on down!

Paul will be all the easier to ignore because isn't pissing into the tent to the extent Bernie has.

 

[maabus1999]

ruh roh

Being Hillary campaigned heavily in KY, I think internally they knew they have an excellent chance of winning by a good margin, so they are trying to go for the kill shot before California.

I mean if she by chances wins KY and Oregon (or ties even) with the closed primary system, it would basically leave Sanders having to win all of California's delegates, if not more.

 

[User 463088]

FRAUD!!! WILL OF THE PEOPLE CORRUPT OLIGARCHY MONEY IN POLITICS *FINGER WAG*

You forgot that dank bird.

 

[RastaMentality]

Benchmark reporting low turnout in college areas in Kentucky because school is out.

Gonna be low in CA because it's right in the middle of UC finals week. Most schools will be out otherwise.

 

[bananas]

You forgot that dank bird.

That's implied.

 

[Teggy]

Whoa, huge turnout at post offices in Portland!

They are carrying packages full of ballots. FRAUD!

 

[User 463088]

Benchmark also saying voters appear to be older. Anecdotal anecdotes are anecdotal.

 

[studyguy]

MO MENTUM MO PROBLEMS

 

[B-Dubs]

Whoa, huge turnout at post offices in Portland!

The average age of the people in that line has got to be like 900, I mean look at all those old people.

 

[Teggy]

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/trump-bashes-priorities-usa-women-comments-ad

Looks like Priorities USA is already getting under Trump's skin.

He complains that when he said "Go fuck yourselves" he was talking about China, not women, because apparently that makes it a lot better. And BTW, the ad doesn't say that all the quotes are directed at women.

 

[User 463088]

That's implied.

I meant to put damn but I think dank works too... It I knew what it meant....

 

[BotoxAgent]

If Hillary wins a state tonight, i am going to donate to her campaign. It will be my first time giving (I did give money to Sanders months ago, ugh!)

 

[HylianTom]

They are carrying packages full of ballots. FRAUD!

Okay, I legit laughed aloud at this.

(Tammany Hall, eat your hearts out.)

 

[plagiarize]

I think most of them will. At the end of the day, online communities still aren't representative of the overall picture. There's definitely a group of Bernie supporters who won't support Hillary, but it seems that most of those people never would have voted for her to begin with. The average Bernie supporter is likely still a Democrat, and they'll pull the lever for Hillary come November.

I mean, we're hearing about him walking into his campaign office and no one being there. If his volunteers are bailing, I can't imagine his normal everyday supporters are still going. The people that are left seem to be the ones who somehow think Hillary has stolen the election.

Pretty much. The people on my facebook wall that are still claiming he can do it, are the people who've been posted egregious crap all along. Most of the more rational supporters have moved on to get behind Clinton or to focus on Trump.

I mean, this is just my Facebook wall so your mileage may vary. I long predicted this though. I mean, it's always the way.

But yeah a good chunk of these assholes wouldn't have voted Clinton anyways. *NB* they aren't assholes because they won't vote for Clinton. They're assholes because they're assholes.

Benchmark also saying voters appear to be older. Anecdotal anecdotes are anecdotal.

Breathe. Only another month of this to go. I hope you look after your heart health.

 

[metalslimer]

I definitely need to pick up some kind of Hilary thing but to be honest nothing excites me on her store

 

[Maledict]

We've been here before with turnout numbers, exit polls, and everything. None of it has mattered so far - its demographics that have decided this race.

 

[User 463088]

If Hillary wins a state tonight, i am going to donate to her campaign. It will be my first time giving (I did give money to Sanders months ago, ugh!)

Hillary wins a state tonight and I'm sending $50 to some down ballot dem. I'm maxed on Queen until the general.

 

[Spoiled Milk]

MO MENTUM MO PROBLEMS

That's a pretty good title tbh

 

[plagiarize]

We've been here before with turnout numbers, exit polls, and everything. None of it has mattered so far - its demographics that have decided this race.

Pretty much. That's why I'm going Kentucky for Clinton and Oregon for Sanders. Because of the demographics. There has been no major shift of support from one candidate to the other in any major demographic. Support has held along demographic lines. There has been no momentum.

 

[BotoxAgent]

Hillary wins a state tonight and I'm sending $50 to some down ballot dem. I'm maxed on Queen until the general.

i think PoligGAF will be on track to contribute to down ballot more than Bernie, ha!