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[Hari Seldon]

If you think Lee's flag is comparable to the swastika you need to learn some history.

 

[EdibleKnife]

Living in the western world today, if I were to put the swastika on my clothes or show the symbol somewhere, I would be looked at as a Nazi, white supremacist etc. I would be looked down upon. But, if you were educated about the swastika you would know it's been used for centuries in Asia for entirely good reasons. So does that mean that I don't have any ill intent by wearing the swastika today, because it's origins were peaceful?

It's not just the swastika, it's the entire Nazi flag. If you had a red shirt with a white circle and a turned black swastika in the middle, it would indeed be entirely different from just having the Sanskrit symbol.

 

[CrazyDude]

You're right that probably wasn't the origin of the swastika....

I didn't say it was not based on it, but you have to be an idiot not tell the difference between this and a nazi swastika.

 

[LizardKing]

What minority and majority are you talking about? You mean from some straw poll done midday on a weekday?

Plus the poll states nothing about where the calls where made to, i.e., a majority of the calls could have been made to southern states.

This has nothing to do with majority or minority. This has to do with the fact that the flag's history is racist, and using it today still means it represents a symbol of racism.

Not only that, but as I pointed out in my first post in here, there are a ton of people who have racist beliefs, yet don't identify themselves as racists even though a level-headed person would know that person was racist. Of course these kinds of people wouldn't identify the flag as racist when they don't even identify themselves as racists.

But there's no getting you to understand that. You've turned yourself into a pretzel.

I know, I already state this is if we are to believe this poll. Personally I think some people might be lying because they wouldn't want to admit it's for racist reasons, or because they don't even realize it's racist. I am arguing for the case of this poll being the truth, which it also may be, I don't really know.

 

[Angelus Errare]

Absolute literally means only one view is possible/correct , so your wording is redundant.

Glad to see you didn't argue the actual point though.

 

[Squalor]

I didn't say it was not based on it, but you have to be an idiot not tell the difference between this and a nazi swastika.

I have to hope he's purposely being obstinate at this point because otherwise it hurts that there are people this clueless and dense.

 

[SillyEskimo]

It can be both, so it's understandable.

 

[gutter_trash]

In his defense, he did a complete 180 later in life.

Rocky said is best in Rocky IV
''If i can change and you can change then anybody can change''
or something like that

 

[Dali]

I don't see how anyone could dream it's about hate.


Fred Richardson is a city council member for Mobile, Alabama.

 

[speculawyer]

I'm kind of surprised. There was a previous poll showing the opposite. But it was run by a more left-wing group so I guess they biased the poll . . . and that is an AWFUL thing to do which they should be ashamed of. Or maybe their sampling was just bad.

http://thehill.com/regulation/245702-poll-one-in-five-americans-still-support-confederate-flag

 

[Lunar15]

Just take the goddamn L, south.

 

[Angelus Errare]

I don't see how anyone could dream it's about hate.

"Why can't I say nigga!"

Living in the western world today, if I were to put the swastika on my clothes or show the symbol somewhere, I would be looked at as a Nazi, white supremacist etc. I would be looked down upon. But, if you were educated about the swastika you would know it's been used for centuries in Asia for entirely good reasons. So does that mean that I don't have any ill intent by wearing the swastika today, because it's origins were peaceful?

If you had the swatiska on you and told me to be educated. I'd educate you on the difference between the sanskrit that you obviously missed which made me assume you were a skinhead in the first place.

Actually that's a lie, I would ignore you altogether.

 

[Hunter S.]

Glad to see you didn't argue the actual point though.

I was responding to you to be polite. I do not consider your responses reasonable and worth responding to.

 

[Deleted member 1235]

http://www.cnn.com/2015/07/02/politics/confederate-flag-poll-racism-southern-pride/index.html



Seriously America, what the fuck... 51% of college educated whites think the confederate flag is a symbol of pride... I can't even...

this is basically americas zwarte piet

 

[Angelus Errare]

I was responding to you to be polite. I do not consider you responses reasonable and worth responding to.

I'm hurt. How can you say they're not reasonable?! That's such a black and white outlook!

 

[LizardKing]

It's not just the swastika, it's the entire Nazi flag. If you had a red shirt with a white circle and a turned black swastika in the middle, it would indeed be entirely different from just having the Sanskrit symbol.

Dude, no. The majority of the people of the west would have no clue and if they saw this...

they would think I'm a nazi. That is the thing with symbols, they tend to mean what people think they mean.

 

[Hari Seldon]

I'm kind of surprised. There was a previous poll showing the opposite. But it was run by a more left-wing group so I guess they biased the poll . . . and that is an AWFUL thing to do which they should be ashamed of. Or maybe their sampling was just bad.

http://thehill.com/regulation/245702-poll-one-in-five-americans-still-support-confederate-flag

It could be that people are rallying against the dogpiling. Bitching about it in front of a government building is one thing and people who might like it will shut up about it because they logically recognize that it shouldn't be there, but then taking down Duke's of Hazard is going too far.

 

[Kusagari]

I don't see how anyone could dream it's about hate.


Fred Richardson is a city council member for Mobile, Alabama.

How polite of them to use the a.

 

[Crimson_Gold]

I don't see how anyone could dream it's about hate.


Fred Richardson is a city council member for Mobile, Alabama.

It would have to be Mobile. Oh Alabama...

 

[Sobriquet]

You guys are misunderstanding. They're mostly just Skynard fans.

Even Skynyrd dropped the flag a few years ago

 

[Angelus Errare]

I'm sure that guy voted and said it was "heritage/pride".

 

[TimeEffect]

Southerners rally for flag at Walmart. Featuring a passerby black woman, who obviously takes offense, and one of the white women trying to string together a justification for Southern pride.

 

[Cryxo93]

Well at least it's not that much more of a majority percentage wise. Give it time.

 

[Gordon Shumway]

I don't see how anyone could dream it's about hate.


Fred Richardson is a city council member for Mobile, Alabama.

Hey now!!

How polite of them to use the a.

I was also thinking that was quite thoughtful..

 

[Angelus Errare]

Southerners rally for flag at Walmart. Featuring a passerby black woman, who obviously takes offense, and one of the white women trying to string together a justification for Southern pride.

This is amazing.

"The Civil War wasn't about slavery, they just wanted to secede..."

Go on...

This is that "two side" shit I dismiss. Ain't no two damn sides.

 

[J10]

Well at least it's not that much more of a majority percentage wise. Give it time.

How much more time you think? Just asking because the Civil War was 150 years ago and my life is almost half over.

 

[kess]

If you think Lee's flag is comparable to the swastika you need to learn some history.

Yeah, other than being symbols of White Supremacy they're totally different

 

[Garlador]

Southerners rally for flag at Walmart. Featuring a passerby black woman, who obviously takes offense, and one of the white women trying to string together a justification for Southern pride.

I want to shake that cameraman's hand. He's got a lot of brains and a lot of courage standing up to a mob like that in such a calm, professional manner.

 

[Gordon Shumway]

Southerners rally for flag at Walmart. Featuring a passerby black woman, who obviously takes offense, and one of the white women trying to string together a justification for Southern pride.

Yup..white pride..not about race..

 

[Winter John]

I always thought it was a symbol of southern pride, but my knowledge of it and it's history begins and ends with Lynyrd Skynyrd videos. Found a nice quote from their guitarist on the issue though -

"Through the years, people like the KKK and skinheads kinda kidnapped the Dixie or Southern flag from its tradition and the heritage of the soldiers. … We didn't want that to go to our fans or show the image like we agreed with any of the race stuff or any of the bad things."

 

[NullPointer]

 

[Mermandala]

Maybe we could replace social security numbers with individual flags assigned to everyone like snowflakes with the caveat that you can only be "proud" of things that occur under your own personal banner, like perhaps your sweet tea is especially favored for it's over-the-top sweetness or you are proficient at rapid acceleration on winding dirt roads, whatever... do you. However, if at any point you are proud of dumb shit like the "right" to own slaves, or say a failed military campaign against the country over something stupid like the aforementioned then you get your flag forever revoked.

It'd be a lot easier to admit the Confederate Flag is racist though.

 

[Sanjay]

Pride in being white, superior of all else.

 

[pigeon]

Its actually possible to have the opinion that the flag is merely a symbol of Southern pride without simultaneously holding explicit racist beliefs.

Its more complicated than that and its absurd to simply dumb down every argument like this.

Possible, but unlikely!

Much of the discussion revolves around the question of whether the flag represents “heritage or hatred” (see, for example, here, here, and here). Drawing on rare survey data on this subject, we can shed light on this question. We find that white Southerners who support the Confederate flag are actually less knowledgeable about Southern history; no stronger in their attachments to fellow Southerners (after racial attitudes are taken into account); less tolerant of interracial dating; and more likely to deny that blacks are discriminated against in the labor market.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs...really-is-about-racism-not-southern-heritage/

 

[T'Zariah]

The fact that white southerners who preach about patriotism and Obama being a traitor, yet celebrate a flag from a group of traitors who went against the ideals of the Fathers never ceases to amuse and amaze me

 

[kess]

When mom and pop can't catch reruns of a mediocre 80s TV show we've gone TOO FAR people

 

[……forgetit]

I always thought it was a symbol of southern pride, but my knowledge of it and it's history begins and ends with Lynyrd Skynyrd videos. Found a nice quote from their guitarist on the issue though -

"Through the years, people like the KKK and skinheads kinda kidnapped the Dixie or Southern flag from its tradition and the heritage of the soldiers. … We didn't want that to go to our fans or show the image like we agreed with any of the race stuff or any of the bad things."

I see this a lot where people seem to think the KKK was always considered bad in the south. Honestly southern heritage and the KKK can't be separated because they were one and the same for the majority of post civil war times. The entire southern system was run by it and groups like it until the late 70s and early 80s.

 

[OrangeGrayBlue]

I'm not sure what blows my mind more: that only 25% of white people consider it racist, or that 25% of black people consider it southern pride.

 

[Gordon Shumway]

When mom and pop can't catch reruns of a mediocre 80s TV show we've gone TOO FAR people

lol..amazing..

 

[J10]

Wondering what mysterious series of events changed the meaning of this flag. There had to be a movement or something in the last 60 years that stripped away the racist foundation.

 

[Applesauce]

In his defense, he did a complete 180 later in life.

He already did a 180 to full blown racist to get elected, the "southern strategy" as it's known today.

In the wake of his defeat, Wallace "made a Faustian bargain," said Emory University professor Dan Carter. "In order to survive and get ahead politically in the 1960s, he sold his soul to the devil on race."[17] He adopted a hard-line segregationist stance and used this stand to court the white vote in the next gubernatorial election in 1962. When a supporter asked why he started using racist messages, Wallace replied, "You know, I tried to talk about good roads and good schools and all these things that have been part of my career, and nobody listened. And then I began talking about niggers, and they stomped the floor."[18]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Wallace#Failed_run_for_governor

 

[BokehKing]

Prideful of what though?
Treason? Slavery?

 

[Wolfgunblood Garopa]

Southerners rally for flag at Walmart. Featuring a passerby black woman, who obviously takes offense, and one of the white women trying to string together a justification for Southern pride.

We need to prioritize education in this country before we can even begin to deal with the actual issues. Good lord.

 

[Angelus Errare]

Possible, but unlikely!



http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs...really-is-about-racism-not-southern-heritage/

One thing I've learned when it comes to the subject of racism in America. You can have 150+ years of statistical data but flatout denial continues to increase. Sprinkle in some revisionist history under the guise of "two sides to it" and you have America's race relations. One group believes by simply ignoring it, it'll go away. The other group (the persecuted group) is like...uh yea no. The former group then cries out about the race card, the flames of the race war, get over slavery and moving on but can't even follow their own advice.

Some days I wish the British defeated America, other days I wish Grant's Reconstruction worked, and everyday I wish I could ship off many of these "Souf shall rise again!" people to their own island where they can be as racist and small government as they want to be.

The fact that white southerners who preach about patriotism and Obama being a traitor, yet celebrate a flag from a group of traitors who went against the ideals of the Fathers never ceases to amuse and amaze me

It kills me that they don't see it. But again that's what happens when you divorce yourself from reality and history but repeat history's mistakes.

 

[onadesertedisland]

Southerners rally for flag at Walmart. Featuring a passerby black woman, who obviously takes offense, and one of the white women trying to string together a justification for Southern pride.

The hooting and chuckling makes them sound so dumb, almost movie stereotypical. When people are in groups the stupid really comes out sometimes.

 

[Patryn]

Wondering what mysterious series of events changed the meaning of this flag. There had to be a movement or something in the last 60 years that stripped away the racist foundation.

It's not mysterious. I'd be willing to bet that it's just that the people who support the flag tend to not see themselves as racists, thus can't see the flag as racist.

 

[Slayven]

The push back against this amazing, not from the racist white dudes, that is a given. But from learned people.

 

[T'Zariah]

The push back against this amazing, not from the racist white dudes, that is a given. But from learned people.

Isn't knowledge supposed to come with wisdom?

 

[Vicetrailia]

It's easy for white people to look the other way since they are not black. That's all it takes, nevertheless racists and avoidance norms.

 

[DrForester]

Wondering what mysterious series of events changed the meaning of this flag. There had to be a movement or something in the last 60 years that stripped away the racist foundation.

Honestly? I think it was The Dukes of Hazard. It was a popular show in the 80s. In it the flag is associated with two rebellious youths who skirt the law. They rebel against authority and are portrayed as the heroes. There no racist overtones in the series to give it a negative Impression.

For some that rebellious attitude is what it stands for, out of context of its historical meaning