Project Morpheus - Sony VR headset prototype - unveiled

Draft

Member
Mar 30, 2005
18,403
2
0
38
Given Sony's size and R&D budget I'd expect their prototype to be quite a bit more advanced than the Oculus. I wonder what's holding them back?
 

KOHIPEET

Member
May 10, 2013
3,029
0
375
Hungary
It's little past 4AM there. Showfloor "gates" will probably open in 9AM, first reports will come after that.



Yes, but it will feel weird. VR is all about mimicking real life, meaning that your "head" needs to control only your head. Nobody has a gun glued to their heads. :D Head movement and arm movement need to be decoupled.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MH3v2VrCZ9Q

PS Move in a plastic gun [or one-two barebones PS Moves] and aim with that.
Yea, now I see it probably wouldn't be so cool. However I would give it a try, just because of the possible accuracy.
 

geordiemp

Member
Sep 5, 2013
7,070
27
395
UK
You're shouting at clouds here, arguing about something that no one is even talking about. What's wrong with you mate? You are trying desperately hard to start some VR fanboy war. It's quite sad :(
It all started when I said I was pumped for Ps4 VR, and someone asked me why I had not been pumped for Occulus.

I stated that I did not consider Occulus at all for various reasons, and have spent 10 posts defending my 'missing' the Occulus offering and if its mainstream or not.

Whatever, I don't care, I consider and buy consumer electronics form large companies...that's it..
 

Nicktals

Banned
Jun 25, 2006
3,571
0
0
You post numbers like $ 75 million and we are supposed to consider that mainstream electronics...?

You serious ?

I am laughing my head off
Doesn't the fact that they've achieved exactly the same results as Sony make you consider them a little more seriously? I mean, if they did the same thing with much less, doesn't that make their feat pretty impressive, and bode well for the future of the company?

My opinion on the 'VR war' is that Sony needs to allow their device on PCs. If they do, I think they've got an edge. If they don't, I'd go with Oculus. Assuming of course that both delivery high quality experiences, which I think they will.

EDIT:
It all started when I said I was pumped for Ps4 VR, and someone asked me why I had not been pumped for Occulus.

I stated that I did not consider Occulus at all for various reasons, and have spent 10 posts defending my 'missing' the Occulus offering and if its mainstream or not.

Whatever, I don't care, I consider and buy consumer electronics form large companies...that's it..
Oh, so don't worry guys, he'll have on Oculus in 2 years.
 

modiste

Neo Member
Aug 16, 2013
6
0
0
guys, lets be honest.

add-on products to a console are rarely supported due to low percentage of consoles owners having the accessorie.

to be a success this needs to get in homes asap. i have a question for you.

- how does this product needs to be sold? (bundled with camera? game?)

- how much should it cost?

remember, for it to succeed, this needs to get in home FAST!
 

riflen

Member
Feb 12, 2013
2,402
0
0
I find it interesting that Sony are calling this a platform, not a peripheral. This language could indicate they are considering PC support for their platform. Or it could not.

I'll be surprised if they do. It's feasible technically and from a developer relationship standpoint, but I think that would be quite a dubious gamble financially. The unit margins alone are probably too small to support their entry into the PC market. It wouldn't be just a matter of releasing a Windows driver and the PC platform moves faster than they allow Playstation to.

It's an area we've not seen Sony operate in before, and I can't help thinking that every dollar spent on PC support is taking away potential profit from their playstation platform, where they are the absolute rulers, have a captive audience and take a nice slice of everything sold.
The only reason I can see for them to 'gift' this platform to PC, would be to exploit its developer base in order to generate momentum for their HMD platform. If this is their strategy, they would have to eventually make PS4 Sony VR games more attractive somehow than PC Sony VR games.
 

KOHIPEET

Member
May 10, 2013
3,029
0
375
Hungary
Given Sony's size and R&D budget I'd expect their prototype to be quite a bit more advanced than the Oculus. I wonder what's holding them back?
One reason I think is the lack of support ATM, no one can launch a device without software for it. Another one I think is that they're walking on unexplored ground here and they don't want to fuck it up. They're probably trying to create a device that has legroom in it so they can retain the ability adapt to new trends that are very difficult foresee.
 

Callibretto

Member
Nov 9, 2007
14,285
0
915
Yea, now I see it probably wouldn't be so cool. However I would give it a try, just because of the possible accuracy.
I doubt it will be any accurate at all, it'll probably great to aim at general direction, but you have to move your head steadily to fine aim
 

IvorB

Member
Apr 26, 2013
8,952
0
0
Given Sony's size and R&D budget I'd expect their prototype to be quite a bit more advanced than the Oculus. I wonder what's holding them back?
They probably have their eye on a massmarket-friendly price point. I'm sure they could make a high-end, bleeding edge VR headset if they wanted to.
 

Sanador

Member
Jul 18, 2013
301
0
0
I was talking specifically about games from Sony. Looking more closely I guess they didn't stop completely, just mostly. Going by Wikipedia's list, I see Sony with about 7 3D PS3 games in the last half of 2010, 9 in 2011, 6 in 2012, and 3 in 2013. I don't know of any for PS4, but I don't know where there's a list of 3D games for PS4 either.
I have only seen Trine 2 in 3D on the PS4. It looks gorgeous in 3D btw.
 

Seanspeed

Banned
Sep 10, 2009
29,419
0
0
The initial funding as of Wiki is correct. If they got more, good on them.

Just stop trying to compare consumer products from a small company that's got a few million in funding to a multi billion corporation.

MS is a competitor to Sony and is mainstream

Nintendo is a competitor to Sony and is mainstream

Occulus is not mainstream.

Deal with it.
You're still going with this nonsense?
 
Nov 10, 2013
118
0
260
Oklahoma
Oculus really needs to blow me away with their dk2 announcement, otherwise I am going to hold out on both. I need to make sure the morpheus works with my PC as well as ps4.I would hate to have to buy a second vr headset during the same gen
 

Callibretto

Member
Nov 9, 2007
14,285
0
915
I find it interesting that Sony are calling this a platform, not a peripheral. This language could indicate they are considering PC support for their platform. Or it could not.

I'll be surprised if they do. It's feasible technically and from a developer relationship standpoint, but I think that would be quite a dubious gamble financially. The unit margins alone are probably too small to support their entry into the PC market. It wouldn't be just a matter of releasing a Windows driver and the PC platform moves faster than they allow Playstation to.

It's an area we've not seen Sony operate in before, and I can't help thinking that every dollar spent on PC support is taking away potential profit from their playstation platform, where they are the absolute rulers, have a captive audience and take a nice slice of everything sold.
The only reason I can see for them to 'gift' this platform to PC, would be to exploit its developer base in order to generate momentum for their HMD platform. If this is their strategy, they would have to eventually make PS4 Sony VR games more attractive somehow than PC Sony VR games.
Someone will make unofficial driver and make it work for Ocukus Rift games, just like someone make d4tool so you can use dualshock4 and it simulate 360 controller.

So sony dont even have to support it officialy and it will play OR games while Morpheus games will still be exclusive to Sony
 
Dec 3, 2013
8,419
1
0
What is the point of unveiling a dev kit prototype that has no release date and no concrete specs and no examples of games it will run with???
They did the same with the PS4 last year. Get people talking about it, devs interested and full blowout of information at E3 a few months later.
 

SparkTR

Member
Jul 16, 2008
9,571
0
0
Oculus really needs to blow me away with their dk2 announcement, otherwise I am going to hold out on both. I need to make sure the morpheus works with my PC as well as ps4.I would hate to have to buy a second vr headset during the same gen
If you're interested in VR, you without a doubt will buy several. This is only the beginning of the beginning, 1440p to 4K displays with 120Hz refresh rates, possibly even Gsync-like hardware in the device. That's where VR is going to be in 3-5 years, at least on PC.
 

Dragon

Banned
Jul 7, 2007
24,879
0
0
Given Sony's size and R&D budget I'd expect their prototype to be quite a bit more advanced than the Oculus. I wonder what's holding them back?
Either they wanted to have an affordable price point or they wanted to continue to disappoint you. I vote for the latter.
 

Popup

Member
Oct 20, 2007
145
0
0
If coupled with the camera, does anyone think it will be feasible to allow you to lift your arm in front of your face and see your characters arm moving?
 

Coolwhip

Banned
Mar 28, 2011
9,644
0
0
It will be a looooong time before VR will be really something worthwhile, but it's good to see everyone is starting somewhere.
 

PJV3

Member
Jan 26, 2009
10,860
6
0
London
Morpheus will see the resurgence of the japanese devs?

I can already see them planning their anime schoolgirl games right now
The Western version would be a Playboy mansion game where you are Hugh Heffner.
The collectors edition would come with a silk dressing gown and a blow up doll, £95.
 

Bit-Bit

Member
Jul 24, 2006
7,383
4
0
This thing is useless unless I can pump my cable TV through it. Sony loses this round again. Too little, too late.
You can pump your cable TV through the HMZ, a device the Sony's already on a 3rd revision.

That's not what the morpheus will be used for. VR is completely different then just watching shit on a screen in your face.
 

ido

Member
Apr 14, 2010
2,229
0
0
35
Mississippi
They're wrong. CC is 90 FoV.
Did you read it? The chart is mislabeled, but they are actually right.

The Morpheus has a horizontal field of view of 90 degrees, which is only slightly less than a human's field of view from their nose, if they don't move their eyes (which is roughly 95 degrees). The Rift's field of view is 110 degrees diagonal, which it is claimed is "more than 90 degrees horizontal". It seems that the difference here is negligible, with both devices almost covering the player's entire field of view. The Oculus may nudge it, though.
 

SolidusDave

Member
Apr 14, 2009
10,173
0
0
Germany
If coupled with the camera, does anyone think it will be feasible to allow you to lift your arm in front of your face and see your characters arm moving?
Not as accurately to be convincing/reliable I would assume. Skeletal tracking works (e.g. Playroom robots recognize if you wave at them) but is limited.
Though if you have a Move controller in your hand, it would be tracked 1:1.
Like in those augmented reality Move games, in which they overlay a tool/device over the lightbulb of the Move. Just much more convincing because of VR.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=50aAfEFZJMg
 

Dolor

Member
Jun 17, 2013
1,996
0
0
Katy, TX
steamcommunity.com
Is the PS4 powerful enough to do VR well? My understanding was that you needed at least 2 1080p screens (one for each eye) running at ~95Hz. If I'm not mistaken, that's a better target for the PS5...
 

geordiemp

Member
Sep 5, 2013
7,070
27
395
UK
My opinion on the 'VR war' is that Sony needs to allow their device on PCs. If they do, I think they've got an edge. If they don't, I'd go with Oculus..
There is no war between console and PC. They 2 are very separate markets in my opinion (although some people play everything)...

I have no idea why people keep throwing Occulus stuff around in this thread, it is not relevant. Go make an occulus thread about whatever they are doing, please.
 

TAJ

Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
Jun 9, 2004
24,925
0
0
They did mention that in the link...
So basically Oculus isn't concentrating on audio. hmm
There are Oculus games that use 3D positional audio over headphones.
And I'm convinced that there's no actual audio hardware in Morpheus outside of a headphone jack... that they're just finally going to be exploiting the existing PS4 audio hardware (TrueAudio, DSPs, and GPGPU)
 

Popup

Member
Oct 20, 2007
145
0
0
fixed and of course
Move would show where your hand was and would work well in dark environments but if the camera can face track and there have been body tracking games (of a simple nature) on PS Eye before, surely it would be possible to roughly track an arm with just the camera?

Edit:- NVM; a post dealing with this has appeared as I was typing my response :)
 

mcrommert

Banned
Oct 24, 2013
4,461
1
0
Totally missed this last night. This turned into really a non announcement since its just a prototype and nothing more. They really should have waited to show this off until they at least had some games on board or a final design
 

darkwing

Member
Sep 11, 2009
25,704
0
705
www.pinoyps.com
Totally missed this last night. This turned into really a non announcement since its just a prototype and nothing more. They really should have waited to show this off until they at least had some games on board or a final design
GDC are for the devs, E3 are for consumers, they have to show them to devs if they want games to be made for it
 

Gurrry

Member
May 15, 2013
4,989
1
0
Austin
This is what Ive been waiting for Sony to announce.

I got an XB1 on launch instead of the PS4, mainly because I felt the xbox had more "next gen" features on it. To where as the PS4 was more like a high powered PC (something I already have).

But this VR.. this is what will make me finally clear out my shelf space for PS4 only. This is something you cant get anywhere else.
 

ido

Member
Apr 14, 2010
2,229
0
0
35
Mississippi
Totally missed this last night. This turned into really a non announcement since its just a prototype and nothing more. They really should have waited to show this off until they at least had some games on board or a final design
At this point, there is no doubt in my mind that the consumer Rift will drop before this does.

But this VR.. this is what will make me finally clear out my shelf space for PS4 only. This is something you cant get anywhere else.
You can on your high-powered PC that you have.
 

Dragon

Banned
Jul 7, 2007
24,879
0
0
Totally missed this last night. This turned into really a non announcement since its just a prototype and nothing more. They really should have waited to show this off until they at least had some games on board or a final design
Unveiling it because they want to get developer support at GDC is exactly what they should have done. It isn't ready to unveil to the public.
 

EVIL

Member
Dec 16, 2008
3,731
0
775
www.evilart.biz
They're wrong. CC is 90 FoV.
Actually, the Crystal cove has a diagonal FoV of 110, the same as their first devkit, their horizontal FoV is 90

edit: I see they are kinda twisting their own specsheet comparison in their own article

The Morpheus has a horizontal field of view of 90 degrees, which is only slightly less than a human's field of view from their nose, if they don't move their eyes (which is roughly 95 degrees). The Rift's field of view is 110 degrees diagonal, which it is claimed is "more than 90 degrees horizontal". It seems that the difference here is negligible, with both devices almost covering the player's entire field of view. The Oculus may nudge it, though.
 

Raist

Banned
Jan 27, 2007
24,544
0
0
Is the PS4 powerful enough to do VR well? My understanding was that you needed at least 2 1080p screens (one for each eye) running at ~95Hz. If I'm not mistaken, that's a better target for the PS5...
No VR solution out there has 2 full 1080 screens.
 

Durante

Member
Oct 1, 2006
48,836
1
0
peter.metaclassofnil.com
Given Sony's size and R&D budget I'd expect their prototype to be quite a bit more advanced than the Oculus. I wonder what's holding them back?
I am a bit disappointed, I did expect them to have at least one significant hardware difference to the Rift (either because it's really better or just because of pride). I guess the "Luckey/Carmack design" for VR headsets is just the most feasible option for consumer VR at this point by a huge margin.

Surely they are presenting this first at GDC to encourage development.
They explicitly said that's the point. It's also the reason for the Rift DK1 and their presentations, as well as why Valve showed their prototype.

Thanks to the openness of PC and people who design custom mods and drivers, there's already a fair amount of Rift-compatible software for early adopters to mess with. Steam already has a VR Support category for games that support it officially.
Steam even has a legacy mode you can use to play most games on a virtual screen in VR, and navigate the interface in VR. Valve is pretty good at providing a consumer software platform for VR considering that there isn't even any product yet.

Is there any kind of guesstimate cost breakdown available for the headset? I'm presuming the main cost here is the price of the panels, plus the sensors and casing. I can't see much else that would be very expensive although obviously the quality of the screens will heavily influence the cost.
The one huge cost factor on these things is the panel, everything else is comparably minor IMHO.

The second thing I wonder is considering the inputs for the current kit are HDMI and USB, as long as Sony don't go all proprietary cable on us, surely this would be potentially hackable for PC use?
Yes. It's questionable though if you'd want to do that rather than a Rift, considering software support (on PC) and HW quality. We'll have to wait until we know a lot more about the latter.

I have no idea why people keep throwing Occulus stuff around in this thread, it is not relevant. Go make an occulus thread about whatever they are doing, please.
Oculus put VR on the map, and the design we are dealing with here seems to be basically a Rift. It's also the only other company in the VR hardware business. Of course it is highly relevant. Also, one "c".

Totally missed this last night. This turned into really a non announcement since its just a prototype and nothing more. They really should have waited to show this off until they at least had some games on board or a final design
They need to show it to developers to get games. It's really quite simple.
 

ido

Member
Apr 14, 2010
2,229
0
0
35
Mississippi
The FOV debate is happening because most of the time with HMDs FOV is represented by the diagonal FOV (it's a higher number, so naturally a higher number looks better on a spec sheet).

People assumed the 90 degrees was the diagonal FOV because of this, and gave Oculus the edge here. In the end, they are both essentially the same.

I do wonder if Sony essentially copied the Rift. If you look at the slides they showed of their internal prototypes from 2010 and 2011, they are basically just HMZ's.