No real reason to change his properties from Olimar since it's the Pikmin who do all the work. Dark Pit and Lucina are fighters in their own games and have slightly different properties to their counterparts, and Mario played differently in Melee. Makes sense to me why Alph's an alt and they aren't. If they were to retool Alph and change the Pikmin he uses to the new ones in Pikmin 3, that seems like it'd be more work than what went into Dark Pit, Lucina and Doctor Mario.
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Sakurai on Smash clone haters: "A lot of them are children, it cannot be helped."
- Thread starter Fiktion
- Start date
No real reason to change his properties from Olimar since it's the Pikmin who do all the work. Dark Pit and Lucina are fighters in their own games and have slightly different properties to their counterparts, and Mario played differently in Melee. Makes sense to me why Alph's an alt and they aren't. If they were to retool Alph and change the Pikmin he uses to the new ones in Pikmin 3, that seems like it'd be more work than what went into Dark Pit, Lucina and Doctor Mario.
QuixoticNeutral
Member
Seven alternate costumes inspired by the ladies of Awakening were enough to justify a separate slot for Lucina.
ALLseeingEYE
Member
Nice, I was expecting people to pick fights with him over that, glad to see people are taking this with a sense of humor.
I've always found that gamers don't really understand the work that goes into creating new fighting game characters, I imagine a game with this amount of characters is already a monumental task to create. Seeing the support for the Skullgirls characters and price breakdown there was really cool and eye opening.
I've always found that gamers don't really understand the work that goes into creating new fighting game characters, I imagine a game with this amount of characters is already a monumental task to create. Seeing the support for the Skullgirls characters and price breakdown there was really cool and eye opening.
friskykillface
Banned
Why didn't Roy the god get back in the game then?
It would have been cool to see Pichus online.
Release all the characters sakurai
It would have been cool to see Pichus online.
Release all the characters sakurai
Spyder_Monkey
Banned
Pretty much. I mean hell, Ryu and Ken are clones of each other and they're the most popular Street Fighter characters. If people don't know that clones are in almost every fighting game, then it should be assumed that they are kids.
Demon Lizardman
Banned
My issue is that despite me agreeing that clone characters are better than fewer characters, why couldn't he make more interesting clone characters like Diddy/Dixie, Mewtwo/Lucario Impa/Sheik.
First post is always best post, hands down.
DICKS AHOY
Banned
Pretty sure you can play as Roy in this game.
While people complaining about the actual inclusion of these characters are pretty lame, it's also pretty lame when/if Nintendo touts the number of playable characters in their promotion material. If they count Mii Fighters, which are more complete characters than the model swaps (plus a few changes), they hit 51, which is just more than the magical 50.
EmCeeGramr
Member
The inconsistency is probably that Alph really isn't much of a character, and stretching "The Pikmin guy with the Pikmins" concept and weird fighting style across two whole characters probably doesn't work as well as more "standard" fighters like Mario, Marth, Pit, etc.
Also, there are seven Koopalings and there was no way they'd all be separate characters, so it makes more sense to make them alts for Bowser Jr.
Also, there are seven Koopalings and there was no way they'd all be separate characters, so it makes more sense to make them alts for Bowser Jr.
Fixed
Infinite Justice
Member
Doctor Mario was fucking awesome in Melee and it was interesting playing a way slower but stronger Captain Falcon so i'm alright with clones tbh.
dat comment tho...
dat comment tho...
Sir Ilpalazzo
Member
Pretty much. The three characters the topic is about have every one of their attack animations lifted from existing characters (although the properties of the attacks are changed up a lot), so the differences aren't as big as the differences between, say, Ryu and Ken.
Lucas isn't a straight model swap like these three characters or the clones in Melee (although he was supposed to be at one point in Brawl's development); he had a fair amount of unique attack animations. He was definitely a derivative character though.
If you get dissed by Sakurai, you do not fight back.
IntelliHeath
As in "Heathcliff"
There are more quotes in the article.
Lucina has equal damage all around while Marth does more damage if he hits you with just the tip of his sword. Also she's slightly shorter so smaller hitbox, but that's barely noticeable.
Dark Pit has a stronger arrow attack, but you can't direct it as well as Pit's arrows. His side b also knocks the opponent sideways instead of upwards like Pit. Everything else damage wise and animation wise is exactly the same. His final smash is also more like Zelda's instead of Pit's.
Doctor Decimate
Member
I could see how you get that impression if you completely ignored his explanation for why they exist.
That quote sounds like it's gearing up for a DLC announcement.
"Oh yeah the game is a great value right? All those characters for one price... now here's some more for more money"
Not complaining, but presenting the already-released game as a good value softens the DLC blow for some.
DICKS AHOY
Banned
Dr. Mario and Dark Pit similarly (though maybe not to the same extent) have a few normals and significantly remixed specials to themselves their counterparts don't have, so he's not *that* far removed from them in how 'clone-y' he was. Lucina is the only case where taunts aside I think she shares everything with Marth besides the slight difference in stats, which leads me to think she was partially made a separate character due to FE:A's popularity. Plus I remember a ton of people wanting Lucina in last year when Robin seemed like an impossibility, so her staying as an alt for Marth probably would've rubbed people the wrong way farmore than Alph being an alt for Olimar has.
I held off mentioning Wolf since besides his Final Smash I'm not even sure any of his normal or special moves were actually shared with Fox. He was more just really, *really* conceptually similar to him rather than a clone, yet got way more heat than Falco ever did.
C.Olimar788
Member
It is completely silly for anyone to suggest that Dark Pit - or any other blatant clone - should have been cut in favor of a completely original character. His comments about the manpower required for the easy clones (very little) and the like are reasonable - though I still wish Pittoo had had a little more than two specials being slightly different, and wish they had gone Melee-clone on him and made him slower but stronger.
It is not, however, silly for people to dislike Dark Pit when he was prioritized to be a lazy clone when Alph would have made more sense and reeked less of blatant bias.
It is not, however, silly for people to dislike Dark Pit when he was prioritized to be a lazy clone when Alph would have made more sense and reeked less of blatant bias.
Red Arremer
Member
No.
I imagine Alph was not separated because Olimar is a much more complicated character than Mario, Pit and Lucina are. You'd have to give Alph -something- to separate him from Olimar. The 3 clones that are chosen have subtle yet still existing differences (Doc having a different Down B and Down Aerial in comparison to Mario, aside from generally being slower and harder hitting; Lucina takes away the tipper mechanic from Marth; Dark Pit has changes to his specials and his Final Smash is different) - it would be difficult to make an Olimar clone differentiate without changing, essentially, how the Pikmin work, and that would require a lot more workload than just tweaking Pit's arrows to be able to be controlled like in Brawl, or taking out tipper and spreading strength into the entirety of the hitbox.
PensivePen
Member
He's also explaining that this is the only thing they really had time to do. They were going to simply make the characters alt skins, but decided to give them a few new properties and reserve a slot for them. These characters are not preventing a brand new character from being in the game, as they don't take anywhere the amount of time as creating an entirely new set of moves and animations.
I agree, people who whine about clones on message boards usually are assholes
Icelandic_Jazz
Member
The reasoning for clones is totally there, and I don't have a big problem with them. I can still hate on crappy characters though.
MagiusNecros
Gilgamesh Fan Annoyance
Sakurai: They aren't clones to meh!
Synless
Member
Wrong Roy.
Sir Ilpalazzo
Member
Mihael Mello Keehl
Banned
I love it when they come out and shit on people lol
OrbitalBeard
Member
And I thank him for that.
I honestly would have been completely fine with MORE KI characters.