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[viciouskillersquirrel]

I'm very late to this thread, but now that most of the trolling is done, I thought I'd come in and voice my approval at Sony's decision. BC is a very important feature at launch that gets utilised less and less as the system matures. By the end of the generation, it is no longer relevant to most people given that new releases for the old system are no longer happening.

Still, at 399 EUR, it'd likely sell here in Australia for about AU$650, which is still a bit too pricey for my liking. Having said that, it's a step in the right direction. With what Sony pulled in the US (the price cut that wasn't), I was worried that Sony's strategy would be to keep 'upgrading' the PS3 unit in order to maintain high prices throughout the whole generation. It's clear now that if they ever had that strategy, they've abandoned it now in favour of the norm for electronic goods.

Good work, SCEE. Now, just get the price down to less than AU$500 (which would be the Australian retail pricing equivalent of 300 EUR) and we'll be in a position to start negotiating my purchase of your machine.

 

[Lightning]

Wow ... just wow. If you can't follow the discussion don't even try.

No, I'm following the discussion perfectly.

You all are condemning Sony because they removed BC and stated that after the 60GB stock is removed that the 40GB will be the only SKU available in the EU. What I am saying is that SCEE are only telling us what they want us to know AT THIS POINT in time, not what's going to happen in December/January or whenever the 60GB stock runs out.

They done the exact same thing last month when the said the 60GB would be the only sku this fall. They told us what they wanted us to know AT THAT POINT in time, not what they actually had planned.

That's my point.

SCEE's statements cannot be trusted on this matter, they are obviously misleading us to spike sales and sell out the 60GB's faster because they don't want too many SKU's open to the general public. If SCEA were smart, they would have done the exact same thing but they didn't. Now they have 20GB, 60GB and 80GB skus on the market being sold.

 

[Kujo]

Looking at a few other sites, I find it kind of strange that Sony seems to be getting more backlash from this than Microsoft got about the 3RLOD problem.

 

[evlcookie]

Well i went past a local EB and noticed the 40gb ps3 will be AUD$699 when it goes on sale oct 11th. Which is AUD$300 cheaper than the current 60gb model.

Bloody glad they dropped the price.

 

[inner-G]

Now they have 20GB, 60GB and 80GB skus on the market being sold.

Doesn't 360 have a 0GB, 20GB, and 120GB on the market? At least all the PS3s have a HDD!

 

[viciouskillersquirrel]

Well i went past a local EB and noticed the 40gb ps3 will be AUD$699 when it goes on sale oct 11th. Which is AUD$300 cheaper than the current 60gb model.

Bloody glad they dropped the price.

Excellent!

 

[Lightning]

Doesn't 360 have a 0GB, 20GB, and 120GB on the market? At least all the PS3s have a HDD!

Why did you skip my point only to quote that?

I don't care how many sku's the 360 has. The point is that Sony America want rid of both the 60GB and the 20GB and they are failing at it.

 

[Scottlarock]

poeple are still bitching about barbie pony being BC campaitble with the 360 but not PGR2

why does IMO the new PS 40 gig should get the sleave ho, and passed on this? 360 matched up aboout 60% of the titles, why can't the new ps 40 gig do atleast some of this? the 360 can play the halos, NG, kotors of last gen and online too.

BC is still important to many, I f I buy a PS3, I would want to play bully, GOW, FFXXII

 

[Flakster99]

Looking at a few other sites, I find it kind of strange that Sony seems to be getting more backlash from this than Microsoft got about the 3RLOD problem.

The backlash against Microsoft netted the 360 consumer base a 3 year warranty expansion for said issue, to which cost Microsoft a cool billion.

I do not see the correlation between the 2 issues at all. Shoddy hardware VS. the removal of a feature for cost cutting, future measures. Publicity is likely the only similarity.

 

[mepaco]

No, I'm following the discussion perfectly.

You all are condemning Sony because they removed BC and stated that after the 60GB stock is removed that the 40GB will be the only SKU available in the EU. What I am saying is that SCEE are only telling us what they want us to know AT THIS POINT in time, not what's going to happen in December/January or whenever the 60GB stock runs out.

They done the exact same thing last month when the said the 60GB would be the only sku this fall. They told us what they wanted us to know AT THAT POINT in time, not what they actually had planned.

That's my point.

SCEE's statements cannot be trusted on this matter, they are obviously misleading us to spike sales and sell out the 60GB's faster because they don't want too many SKU's open to the general public. If SCEA were smart, they would have done the exact same thing but they didn't. Now they have 20GB, 60GB and 80GB skus on the market being sold.

So, you really don't see the problem in saying that they lie all the time, that they don't tell the entire truth ... and then attacking us for speculating about things they haven't confirmed! In one breath you say that we can't trust them (I agree, they will say what is best for their bottom line as all companies will) but then we have to wait for official word before we can talk about the future? If they won't tell us what the future holds for them (which they shouldn't always do) why can't we discuss the possibilities? You attack somebody for assuming the $400 price will come to the US and then also attack people when they don't assume that a new BC model will replace the 60GB. Do you not see a problem here?

 

[theBishop]

So, you really don't see the problem in saying that they lie all the time, that they don't tell the entire truth ... and then attacking us for speculating about things they haven't confirmed! In one breath you say that we can't trust them (I agree, they will say what is best for their bottom line as all companies will) but then we have to wait for official word before we can talk about the future? If they won't tell us what the future holds for them (which they shouldn't always do) why can't we discuss the possibilities? You attack somebody for assuming the $400 price will come to the US and then also attack people when they don't assume that a new BC model will replace the 60GB. Do you not see a problem here?

Wow.

 

[FirstInHell]

http://www.gamepro.com/news.cfm?article_id=55108

"Backwards compatibility, as you know from PlayStation One and PlayStation 2, is a core value of what we believe we should offer. And access to the library of content people have created, bought for themselves, and accumulated over the years is necessary to create a format. PlayStation is a format meaning that it transcends many devices -- PSOne, PS2, and now PS3."

...On Microsoft's Difficulties with Xbox 360 Backward Compatibility

"I don't believe that was backwards compatibility."

 

[Kujo]

I do not see the correlation between the 2 issues at all. Shoddy hardware VS. the removal of a feature for cost cutting, future measures. Publicity is likely the only similarity.

That was my point, one isn't nearly as bad as the other, but I've seen more negativity about it from a few sites. Just kinda weird.

I wonder how regular consumers will react. Sales figures will be interesting.

 

[Flakster99]

That was my point, one isn't nearly as bad as the other, but I've seen more negativity about it from a few sites. Just kinda weird.

I wonder how regular consumers will react. Sales figures will be interesting.

Ahh, got ya.

And about said negativity, it's a pretty big news story, from many angles. With an impassionate, gigantic fanbase and the nature of the internet and Sony's BC legacy, I expected as much.

Yes, it will be interesting how Sony plays this out in the long run.

 

[Lightning]

So, you really don't see the problem in saying that they lie all the time, that they don't tell the entire truth ... and then attacking us for speculating about things they haven't confirmed! In one breath you say that we can't trust them (I agree, they will say what is best for their bottom line as all companies will) but then we have to wait for official word before we can talk about the future? If they won't tell us what the future holds for them (which they shouldn't always do) why can't we discuss the possibilities? You attack somebody for assuming the $400 price will come to the US and then also attack people when they don't assume that a new BC model will replace the 60GB. Do you not see a problem here?

Ok.

First - I did not attack the notion of $400 US PS3, I said it wasn't confirmed and it isn't.

Second - I think at this point SCEE have made it very clear that they have something planned for a new SKU, what that is we don't know, but it will be something. What you guys are doing is applying worst case scenario to the situation and condemning Sony when it is blatantly obvious that they have a plan.

I think it better to wait and see what this plan is before condemning them.

 

[mepaco]

Wow.

Yeah, I think all the stupidity in this thread is making me have one of these 'meltdowns' that I keep hearing so much about. Probably long past time I give up on this train wreck.

That was my point, one isn't nearly as bad as the other, but I've seen more negativity about it from a few sites. Just kinda weird.

I wonder how regular consumers will react. Sales figures will be interesting.

MS has gotten a ton of criticism for their reliability issues. It is also affecting their sales as many consumers who want a 360 are still going to wait until the process shrink and (hopefully) increased reliability. Sony will definitely get a boost with the 40GB units. It is a good move for them in the long run.

With that said, I'm outta here. Have fun guys.

 

[Redd]

I want to believe lightning, I really do. I'm hoping for a 20 gig, wifi, BC, below 400 myself. If that's the new sku or even better all these doubts I have will dissappear and I will believe in those core values Sony talks about again.

 

[Kujo]

Ahh, got ya.

And about said negativity, it's a pretty big news story, from many angles. With an impassionate, gigantic fanbase and the nature of the internet, I expected as much.

Yes, it will be interesting how Sony plays this out in the long run.

Sony should just bundle a PS2 with every PS3. Or better yet, hire those guys who made that PS2 emulator on the PC, I hear it's running pretty well now. If they can do it without any support from Sony, then surely it can't be too hard for Sony to do it themselves. Even if they just aim for the better selling games like with the 360 BC.

mepaco - I don't think it's affecting them that much really. Many people are still happy to get one knowing about the possible problems.

 

[inpHilltr8r]

*core values only available in core pack

 

[bill0527]

*core values NOT available in core pack

Fixed.

 

[mepaco]

Well, since your response was already up by the time I finished typing mine, and I hate to leave on a bad note ... looking back at the posts in this thread, I see that in my mind I had attributed one of fortified_concepts statements to you so I apologize for that. In response to your post:

Ok.

First - I did not attack the notion of $400 US PS3, I said it wasn't confirmed and it isn't.

Sorry, maybe attack is the wrong word. You said his point wasn't valid because it hadn't been announced yet. It seemed very at odds with earlier statements because it implies a certain amount of reliance on PR, which as we both agree isn't going to give us the whole truth.

Second - I think at this point SCEE have made it very clear that they have something planned for a new SKU, what that is we don't know, but it will be something. What you guys are doing is applying worst case scenario to the situation and condemning Sony when it is blatantly obvious that they have a plan.

I think it better to wait and see what this plan is before condemning them.

Here, I don't know what you are talking about. The only thing we have heard from SCEE is that they don't plan on supporting anything other than the 40GB and that BC was not important. Maybe you have seen something I haven't, but it seems to me that contemplating the consequences of such a decision is a perfectly valid thing to do.

Now I'm off to bed, never to view this thread again.

 

[chespace]

The usual Sony fans on GAF see this as good news, not bad news.

Then there's this thread.

Can't you Sony fans just get along?

Personally, I think anything they can do to bring down the price is crucial to having a shot at second place. Joe average at Walmart is not going to care about BC as much as Joe average on GAF. That's where Sony will win. Who cares if they lose in this thread?

 

[JCBossman]

The only way Sony Stands a small chance, is if they match the 360 premium, dollar for dollar, thats what the FAR more powerful(with HD) original Xbox did against the PS2. I don't care if this model has got a 40, 20 or 200gb drive. Sony is in exactly the same position MS was last gen, late to the game, too expensive(MS fixed that quick) and with a weaker catalog.

 

[TheRipDizz]

The important thign right now is to get the PS3 in many hands as possible, and with this price drop on the 60 GB, and the new 40 gig, it will happen.

I've been waiting for the PS3 to get in reasonable price ranges before I buy one. I've never owned a Playstation of any kind, but have accumulated various PSX and PS2 classics for cheap over the past year or so in anticipation of when they drop the absurd prices. The system just lost some very serious value in my eyes and will not be finding its way into my hands anytime soon because of it. **waits for PS2 to drop to $99 like it should have done about two and a half years ago so he can buy one** **shakes head at Sony**

 

[LiquidMetal14]

The only way Sony Stands a small chance, is if they match the 360 premium, dollar for dollar, thats what the FAR more powerful(with HD) original Xbox did against the PS2. I don't care if this model has got a 40, 20 or 200gb drive. Sony is in exactly the same position MS was last gen, late to the game, too expensive(MS fixed that quick) and with a weaker catalog.

To each his own. At least they are releases killer games.

 

[Kujo]

**waits for PS2 to drop to $99 like it should have done about two and a half years ago so he can buy one** **shakes head at Sony**

You've been waiting all this time for just a $30 price drop? You might as well just get a PS2 now so you can play all the games you've bought over the past years. I mean it's selling well at $129, they probably don't have a reason to drop the price yet, especially since they're making a bit of money off them.

 

[ymmv]

The only way Sony Stands a small chance, is if they match the 360 premium, dollar for dollar, thats what the FAR more powerful(with HD) original Xbox did against the PS2. I don't care if this model has got a 40, 20 or 200gb drive. Sony is in exactly the same position MS was last gen, late to the game, too expensive(MS fixed that quick) and with a weaker catalog.

Sony can offer the PS3 for a higher price since the PS3 simply offers more: bigger HD, WiFi, a next-gen HD-player, 50 GB disk capacity, free online network. A 12 month subscription to Xbox Live + WiFi + HD-DVD costs more than $300, so those extra PS3 features are easily worth the extra $100. The 360 does have a better software library at the moment and there could be a susprising amount of pennywise, poundfoolish consumers who buy a cheap Xbox 360 Core without really understanding the hidden costs of Microsoft's nickle-and-diming tactics.

 

[Yoboman]

The only way Sony Stands a small chance, is if they match the 360 premium, dollar for dollar, thats what the FAR more powerful(with HD) original Xbox did against the PS2. I don't care if this model has got a 40, 20 or 200gb drive. Sony is in exactly the same position MS was last gen, late to the game, too expensive(MS fixed that quick) and with a weaker catalog.

No, they are not in the exact same position because PS2 was a world-wide run away success, only rivalled by the likes of Wii. 360 is far from that

 

[chespace]

Sony can offer the PS3 for a higher price since the PS3 simply offers more: bigger HD, WiFi, a next-gen HD-player, 50 GB disk capacity, free online network. A 12 month subscription to Xbox Live will + WiFi + HD-DVD costs more than $300, so those extra PS3 features are easily worth the extra $100. The 360 does have a better software library at the moment and there could be a susprising amount of pennywise, poundfoolish consumers who buy a cheap Xbox 360 Core without really understanding the hidden costs of Microsoft's nickle-and-diming tactics.

Yes, Sony CAN offer it at a more expensive price point because of more features, but is it really helping their cause at this point? They're in some deep shit and they need to move units any way they can -- I think BC is a good compromise.

 

[TheRipDizz]

You've been waiting all this time for just a $30 price drop?

Not really. I was waiting for a $50 price drop. If you remember though, when they finally dropped the thing a whopping $20, the PS3 was already here and I figured why waste that $130 when I could put it towards a PS3, get the same thing and be driven to my knees by the blinding power of teh Cell at the same time. Sony just can't seem to get on my good side it seems.

 

[duk]

BC for 360 and PS3 is the same now, if you want it, buy the higher end sku.

 

[ymmv]

No, they are not in the exact same position because PS2 was a world-wide run away success, only rivalled by the likes of Wii. 360 is far from that

There's still no reason for Sony to price match the 360 unless the Xbox 360 really takes off and the PS3's sales plummet to the ground. I bet Sony's not happy about their current situation but they're not desperate.

 

[TheRipDizz]

BC for 360 and PS3 is the same now, if you want it, buy the higher end sku.

I thought it was being phased out?

 

[magus]

I thought it was being phased out?

I don't think its being phased out on the 60 and 80gb models.

 

[Agent Icebeezy]

There's still no reason for Sony to price match the 360 unless the Xbox 360 really takes off and the PS3's sales plummet to the ground. I bet Sony's not happy about their current situation but they're not desperate.

This 40GB console says otherwise

I don't think its being phased out on the 60 and 80gb models.

Er, those models are being phased out

 

[Kujo]

Not really. I was waiting for a $50 price drop. If you remember though, when they finally dropped the thing a whopping $20, the PS3 was already here and I figured why waste that $130 when I could put it towards a PS3, get the same thing and be driven to my knees by the blinding power of teh Cell at the same time. Sony just can't seem to get on my good side it seems.

You can always buy the PS2 for $130 then sell it for like $80 on eBay or something once you've done with the games. Honestly, some of the PS2 games I wanted to play aren't even working properly (or listed to work) on the PAL 60GB, so I just went out and bought a PS2. You might be able to find a cheap 20GB or 60GB PS3 with full hardware BC once the price drop comes to NA.

 

[painful fart]

The only way Sony Stands a small chance, is if they match the 360 premium, dollar for dollar, thats what the FAR more powerful(with HD) original Xbox did against the PS2. I don't care if this model has got a 40, 20 or 200gb drive. Sony is in exactly the same position MS was last gen, late to the game, too expensive(MS fixed that quick) and with a weaker catalog.

Perhaps they need to do that in the NA, it probably is not necessary in Japan, maybe not in Europe as well, we will soon see.
The BD adds some attraction value, but you are right the 360s one year head start means it has more games, by this time next year the playing field will be more leveled and the consoles will probably be even more closer in price, meanwhile Sony still capitalises on its brand recognition.

 

[magus]

Er, those models are being phased out

Since when is the 80gb being phased out? All I'm saying is that Backwards Compatibility will continue regardless if you can buy those models at retail in the future.

 

[Guy Legend]

Er, those models are being phased out

It's just the 60 gb being phased out everywhere. We don't know the future of the 80 gb unit.

 

[msdstc]

Since when is the 80gb being phased out? All I'm saying is that Backwards Compatibility will continue regardless if you can buy those models at retail in the future.

in eu after the 60 is gone there will be no option for BC, there is NO 80 GB IN EUROPE.

 

[NIghtWolf]

Yes. it is illegal. but how come outside average joe can do it and sony can't?

what do you mean? an average joe can't make a "worthy" ps2 emulator on the ps3 unless that average person have the tools to do so which it mean that need to work for sony.

I know what you mean with effort, and I agreed, but that doesn't make easier the already complicated task of a ps2 emu on ps3.

 

[magus]

in eu after the 60 is gone there will be no option for BC, there is NO 80 GB IN EUROPE.

Who knows maybe they'll make a new SKU once the Europe 60gb is depleted.

It would be very strange for Sony to only offer the 40gb in Europe.

Keeping up with the different SKUs available in each region is confusing =].

 

[NIghtWolf]

The only way Sony Stands a small chance, is if they match the 360 premium, dollar for dollar, thats what the FAR more powerful(with HD) original Xbox did against the PS2. I don't care if this model has got a 40, 20 or 200gb drive. Sony is in exactly the same position MS was last gen, late to the game, too expensive(MS fixed that quick) and with a weaker catalog.

YEp, sony lost all the focus this generation, and I don't know if its going to be worth for them, they knew the marketing rulz and they break them lets see whats the outcome is going to be, they still have time to start doing to right things, lets see how the market responds.

 

[Beer Monkey]

There's still no reason for Sony to price match the 360 unless the Xbox 360 really takes off and the PS3's sales plummet to the ground. I bet Sony's not happy about their current situation but they're not desperate.

Dude. Sony fucked up bigtime this gen, that's why we are seeing a failed pricecut followed up directly by the 40GB unit. It's all about both competitors. That doesn't mean that Microsoft was brilliant (ok, MS was smart in launching early and maintaining a reasonable pricepoint, but they weren't geniuses), it just means that Sony was fucking retarded. They sure as fuck won't try to create some creative new pricepoint next generation. :lol

Sony's pricing decisions are dictated by the market at this point. This is a huge turnaround from lastgen where they got to dictate the market and make the other players follow. Any intelligent Sony shareholder at this point wishes that Sony had taken a remarkably different approach to this whole generation. :lol

To recap:

Last gen Sony was in charge and got to push the whole market around.
This gen, Sony is the market's bitch and they don't even get to make their own pricing decisions any more. They are made for them.

 

[TheRipDizz]

You can always buy the PS2 for $130 then sell it for like $80 on eBay or something once you've done with the games. Honestly, some of the PS2 games I wanted to play aren't even working properly (or listed to work) on the PAL 60GB, so I just went out and bought a PS2. You might be able to find a cheap 20GB or 60GB PS3 with full hardware BC once the price drop comes to NA.

Yeah I may go the used cheap, fully functional 60 GBer, but I figure they may become quite desirable so there's an equal chance that they will command a premium in the future, so we'll see. As for a PS2, it's the last resort and it deffinatly needs to drop to $99 at this point in its life before I'd buy it. It's just what the actual hardware is worth to me and has been for a very long while. It's guts have been archaic for years. I'm sure it'll come eventually and it's not like I'm starving for games to play that I must have a PS2, hence the wait. Also, I don't sell hardware once I get it.

 

[nextgeneration]

Dude. Sony fucked up bigtime this gen, that's why we are seeing a failed pricecut followed up directly by the 40GB unit. It's all about both competitors. That doesn't mean that Microsoft was brilliant (ok, MS was smart in launching early and maintaining a reasonable pricepoint, but they weren't geniuses), it just means that Sony was fucking retarded. They sure as fuck won't try to create some creative new pricepoint next generation. :lol

Sony's pricing decisions are dictated by the market at this point. This is a huge turnaround from lastgen where they got to dictate the market and make the other players follow. Any intelligent Sony shareholder at this point wishes that Sony had taken a remarkably different approach to this whole generation. :lol

To recap:

Last gen Sony was in charge and got to push the whole market around.
This gen, Sony is the market's bitch and they don't even get to make their own pricing decisions any more. They are made for them.

Just to further add to this, Sony is in a precarious position right now, where as each month passes by, they are falling farther and farther behind the competition. For heavens sakes, sales of PS3 are worse than Gamecube at the same point in both console's life cycles. Yes, the market and the competition are forcing Sony to drop the price down to $399. They have no choice in the matter at this point.

 

[LiquidMetal14]

Just to further add to this, Sony is in a precarious position right now, where as each month passes by, they are falling farther and farther behind the competition. For heavens sakes, sales of PS3 are worse than Gamecube at the same point in both console's life cycles. Yes, the market and the competition are forcing Sony to drop the price down to $399. They have no choice in the matter at this point.

They have to lower the price. Most consumer complaints are due to the price.

 

[Rhindle]

Who knows maybe they'll make a new SKU once the Europe 60gb is depleted.

It would be very strange for Sony to only offer the 40gb in Europe.

They will almost certainly roll out the 80GB in Europe.

Sony is going to be taking a bath on this 40GB model. The manufacturing cost difference compared to the current 60GB model is going to be negligible. They're not going to want it out there as their sole SKU, if they can take a much smaller loss by having a 500 EUR model on the market.

 

[Kujo]

Also, I don't sell hardware once I get it.

I always sell hardware once I'm done with it. Same with software, to me there's not many games that are worth playing again. On the contrary, my friend has kept every single console/game he's owned. So I mean personally, I don't really need BC so this new PS3 would be good for me (although I'm still not willing to pay AU$690). Also I'm a bit of a graphics whore, so I find it kinda hard to go back to old games once I've played the next-gen ones.

 

[Agent X]

Experiences vary. In my case, I've had my PS3 since January and I play pretty much only PS2 games on it so far. Probably about 85% of my time with the system is PS2 games.

I'm in a similar situation. Although I play a somewhat lesser percentage of PS2 games than you (maybe about 40% of my PS3 gaming is with PS2 games), it's still a fairly sizable chunk.

I thought of another benefit to BC; it causes the games from the previous generation to stay on shelves longer at places like gamestop.

Up until recently, gamestop had a pretty extensive psone and GBC used section, which probably would had been eliminated much sooner had it not been for BC.

Also, GBA and GC games still have dedicated sections. Do I think BC is partially responsable? Yes I do.

Good point. To expand on this a bit further, it gives developers and publishers working on PS2 games another outlet to sell games.

If it helps, people can think of PS2 games as being a line of "budget PS3 games". I've bought several PS2 games since obtaining a PS3, including games like Raiden III and Namco Museum 50th Anniversary. I'm interested in Fire Pro Wrestling Returns now. There's some very worthwhile stuff released for under $30...Katamari Damacy, Alien Hominid, Street Fighter Alpha Anthology, The Red Star, OutRun 2006: Coast to Coast, some SNK fighting game packs, and lots of classic game compilations from Midway, Atari, Namco, and others. I like having this selection of games available to me, and I think it would be beneficial to potential PS3 owners in the future to have those games available to them, too.

Since when is the 80gb being phased out? All I'm saying is that Backwards Compatibility will continue regardless if you can buy those models at retail in the future.

Well, for the US market, it's not being phased out...at least not yet. Europe, though, is another matter, as their 60 GB model (similar to the US 80 GB but with a smaller hard drive) is ceasing production. As seen on the official UK PlayStation site:

http://uk.playstation.com/ps3/news/.../Entertainment-like-you’ve-never-seen-before/

Remaining on sale while stocks last, the 60GB model represents outstanding value for the keen gamer wishing to upgrade to the High Definition capabilities of PS3. Once stocks are exhausted the new 40GB model will be the only one available in the SCEE territories.

I'm still keeping their fingers crossed that--much like the inclusion of vibration functionality in a controller--they have a change of heart at some point and reintroduce PS2 backward compatibility to another PS3 model in the future.