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[DryEyeRelief]

Well, just as long as we apply this logic across the board to SSF4 as well. Great players can make chaacters look viable when you believe they are not. So...how do you really tell?

I've heard a lot about how there are too many matchups to learn sf4 and that it's troublesome. That says something about its balance, assuming that idea comes from a comparison to its predecessor.

You're better off arguing that balance doesn't necessarily make it a better game.

 

[Raging Spaniard]

calm down.

people are getting their panties in a bunch fast today.

That ... was pretty calm, I thought.

 

[Cromulent_Word]

I knew it was a Kuroda video before I clicked the link. That really doesn't prove anything aside from the fact that he is one of the absolute best 3S players out there.

TM played one of the top 5 Qs (afaik) and he constantly got beaten. Constantly. Kuroda is the only Q i've ever seen win consistently.

Same with Yamazaki's Twelve - I've never seen a better Twelve player yet most of the time he loses in competition.

There's examples of this for every character that isn't top or near top tier.

Btw I love 3rd Strike. No hating. Just pointing out that in most cases only the BEST (aka Kuroda) can win consistently with mid/low tiers.

 

[The Take Out Bandit]

But you're trippin' when it comes to SF3. "Darwinian bliss?" GTFO of here with that Nick Rox hyperbole crap.

YOUCAN'THANDLETHETRUTH.gif

I STILL think the game is imbalanced. I'm sorry, but there shouldn't be characters that are "for die-hard professionals only." You don't see Q, 12, and Sean in competitive play, because they're not good characters. Ibuki got nerfed to the point that she's almost unusable. There's a reason why most of the high-level play consists of only 7 or 8 characters.

Someone already pointed it, but it's pretty much the same for most fighting games. Give me a call back when I can watch a good Hokan player kicking ass in a SSF4 tournament.

There's always going to be characters that are tough to win with and whom players eschew in favor of easier to win with characters. I really don't respect those players.

I'll always root for the under dog.

Let me break your bubble further - Future SF games will ALWAYS be "concession" games. Always. Why? Because Street Fighter is, by nature, a franchise with core characters. You will ALWAYS have Chun Li, and Ryu, with a smattering of other OG characters in Street Fighter games. The second that Ryu isn't in Street Fighter, it is no longer Street Fighter. If you would have taken out Ryu and Ken from SF3, the game wouldn't have ever even taken off with garbage like 12 and Gil. Gil, a dude with flowing eighties rock band hair, a odd divide of color across his body, wearing a speedo. The game would have been another Jo Jo's Adventure.

Gill was awesome and unlike Seth had a wholly unique move set. Seth is the most massively disappointing Capcom boss - ever. I've never been a fan of the SEGA / Namco brand of "Let's make the last guy a swiss army knife with everybody else's moves" style of boss design.

<3 The mark of my dignity will scar thy DNA! <3

Don't be mad Gill makes you feel tingly down South.

If there's one thing SF3 and SF4 fail at, it's sub bosses. I really liked that, even if there is the Internet and spoilers and once the cat's out of the bag it's not a big deal. PLaying SF2 one of the most fun moments was beating the standard eight characters and BAM! Suddenly there are four more spots on the map, OH HOLY SH*T!

That needs to come back.

So by all means, have your love fest for 3rd Strike. Its sweet that it still gets play after all these years, but don't hate on SFIV just because you haven't given it the 5-10 years for folks to learn all the subtleties of it like they did 3S or MOTW.

In 5-10 years nobody will give a damn about SF4. Just the way it's going to be.

lolz glad to see Take Out got called out on his shit.

There are valid criticisms to be made about SF4 but he is not making them.

I love 3S also. I love most fighters.

I will gladly settle your hash when this game releases.

Deeds not words! </Megaforce>

The problem with the death of fighting game genre is when it was a healthy and thriving genre, there were games that were inferior sh*t that you could completely disregard (Mortal Kombat, Killer Instinct, Primal Rage, Time Killers) and good games that you could elevate to their deserved heights.

Now the genre is mostly dead and the fan base is desperate to herald any damned thing as good. BARF!

 

[Lothars]

In 5-10 years nobody will give a damn about SF4. Just the way it's going to be.

I disagree, I think it's going to keep having a following, to me SSF4 is a superior game compared to SF3 even though both are great.

I know I don't speak for anyone but myself though I don't think Street Fighter 3 has been relevant since maybe a year after 3rd strike was released. and SF4 is what made the difference and help make fighting games more relevant again, it will be great to see in a couple years how much the scene has changed and evolved for SF4 as they did for SF3.

 

[The Take Out Bandit]

I disagree, I think it's going to keep having a following, I would go as far to say that I don't think anyone really gives a damn of street fighter 3 compared to 4 as well.

I know I don't speak for anyone but myself though I don't think Street Fighter 3 has been relevant since maybe a year after 3rd strike was released. and SF4 is what made the difference and help make fighting games more relevant again.

Yeah, but that speaks to an audience that I don't care about as their interest peters out inevitably.

All SF4 did that "made the genre relevant" is what I've been saying needed to be done for a decade now. Yes I've been saying it for that long:

ONLINE PLAY.

And even with that, there are games that do that aspect so much better.

Which just speaks to Japan's massive trail behind Western developers WRT online play.

Anyhow, fighting games were irrelevant to the majority of Western gamers thanks to no online play, thus no real way to play them against other players and test one's skill, which is the whole point of fighting games. Unless you're one of those crazies that plays them for story (lolololololololol).

It also helped that SF4 was multiplatform from day one. Look at the inglorious death TvC suffered on the Wii.

Oh and I forgot to mention - lol @ GAF tournament thread of the week. All that is is folks using a thread instead of an IRC client / Twitter feed for their chirping. If sheer volume determines quality then there's plenty of crap albums floating around that should be regarded as fine pieces of music.

 

[Lothars]

Yeah, but that speaks to an audience that I don't care about as their interest peters out inevitably.

I am curious but with the release of the XBLA/PSN Street Fighter 3 third strike, do you think it's going to take away alot of the players from SF4 or other online fighters?

 

[SonOfABeep]

Yeah, but that speaks to an audience that I don't care about as their interest peters out inevitably.

All SF4 did that "made the genre relevant" is what I've been saying needed to be done for a decade now. Yes I've been saying it for that long:

ONLINE PLAY.

And even with that, there are games that do that aspect so much better.

Which just speaks to Japan's massive trail behind Western developers WRT online play.

Anyhow, fighting games were irrelevant to the majority of Western gamers thanks to no online play, thus no real way to play them against other players and test one's skill, which is the whole point of fighting games. Unless you're one of those crazies that plays them for story (lolololololololol).

It also helped that SF4 was multiplatform from day one. Look at the inglorious death TvC suffered on the Wii.

Oh and I forgot to mention - lol @ GAF tournament thread of the week. All that is is folks using a thread instead of an IRC client / Twitter feed for their chirping. If sheer volume determines quality then there's plenty of crap albums floating around that should be regarded as fine pieces of music.

Well, mission accomplished. You've certainly demonstrated to everyone that you're a fan of the older, more hardcore, less popular thing and that there's no changing your mind to consider something newer.

 

[The Take Out Bandit]

I am curious but with the release of the XBLA/PSN Street Fighter 3 third strike, do you think it's going to take away alot of the players from SF4 or other online fighters?

Not really.

It's tough for fighting games to maintain / find an audience without stupid amounts of "hype" behind them.

I'm glad I'm being thrown a bone since I can't get my finances straight to build a cheap PC nor am I smart enough to get the port forwarding sorted out on GGPO.

Atlhough as much as I enjoy championing the quality work ASW has done with BlazBlue online, the game really isn't to my taste; so I know 3S will, assuming the netcode is solid, knock BB further out of rotation for me.

Speaking on the cast, comic writer Brian Michael Bendis had a great quote in an interview where he said it's silly to treat B-list characters like crap; because that character is somebody's favorite character.

I remember the butthurt over SF3 starting with a mostly new cast, but I didn't mind. The SF2 cast was also a mostly new cast when that game came out. 3 series did a great job of giving you new characters to learn first then re-introducing old favorites over time. 4 really took the opposite approach, introducing a handful of new characters with a bunch of SF2 characters, then adding in more Alpha characters for the home release. I really don't feel any of the 4 characters are that strong an addition to the franchise. Drinky Crow summed it up best, they're mostly Fighter's History rejects. Though I'm sure to some folks they're new favorites, and the only good new characters IMO are Gouken and Hokan.

I don't really give a crap about the story and all that bullcrap, I just like the crusty old dude model and Gouken fits that (even if in SF4 he looks like his skin is wood - that issue isn't unique to him) and Hokan is awash in the hilarious racism that a lot of the old SF2 characters had. SF3 really lacked that racist stereotype character design and maybe that's why it didn't click with folks. Maybe?

Plus I loved, loved, loved all the butthurt and bitter tears when Capcom finally revealed Hokan. Still wish they'd give him a Sasquatch in Darkstalkers win pose where his daughters come out and they do a little jig or something.

Back on SF3, I'd still rather have a SF3 Collection. I love the art, sprite work, and background throughout the series and would love to have a definitive version of these in my game collection.

Good to see folks taking my posts in stride, I don't mind being GAF Dan. I have a lot of love for fighting games despite my preferences and hyperbole.

Well, mission accomplished. You've certainly demonstrated to everyone that you're a fan of the older, more hardcore, less popular thing and that there's no changing your mind to consider something newer.

Don't worry, my secret is safe with Nikashi and threi.

 

[robor]

The problem with the death of fighting game genre is when it was a healthy and thriving genre, there were games that were inferior sh*t that you could completely disregard (Mortal Kombat, Killer Instinct, Primal Rage, Time Killers) and good games that you could elevate to their deserved heights.

Now the genre is mostly dead and the fan base is desperate to herald any damned thing as good. BARF!

Yea, and the problem with fighting games when they were thriving is that when ever something wasn't "popular" or "overrated" people would clamor for it due to it's consensual undervalue, ya know, because their desperation resides in something "different" (a self-identity issue maybe, who knows).

You see how that works? This street has two ways, buddy. I barf in the face of blatant fascism.

 

[Dali]

Hi, you just described 3S, which almost killed the franchise.

SF3 doing poorly was for a number of reasons. The initial character list is not all that great. Fan favorites like Urien, Chun Li, Hugo and Makoto weren't in the initial offering. Capcom was also flooding the market whilst simultaneously the American arcade scene was waning. Besides this was before the worldwide fighting scene was as sophisticated as it is now. If they are afraid of a repeat they can always tack on a subtitle. Call it SF:Omega as the events are supposed to be post SF2. As a concession they could throw in maybe a few more SF2 characters than what SF3 ended up with in 3S if they feel people will remain fearful of a new cast despite how well SF3 turned out in the eyes of gamers.

Yeah, I like that art also, NOTHING wrong with it, except tha fact that it is not old, it is new. Which is bad somehow. I do not think that they will redo the graphics itself, but maybe the profile pictures and the ending stuffs might get a proper art for 720p/1080p sized displays.

I've got no problem with 3D. I'd prefer 2D, but some of the SFIV models look pretty amazing, such as... pretty much all the SF3 characters that weren't really redesigned in any significant way, but rather just turned into 3D models. If the entire game took that route instead of helmet hair/80's reject Ken, ape-face Ryu, too many fried dumplings Chun Li, etc. then I'd have one less issue with the game.

 

[V_Arnold]

TTOB, my main is Viper, and her gameplay basically destroys half of the cast of any 2d fighter of the last 20 years. Imho, strictly. So we wont argue about that.

 

[The Take Out Bandit]

TTOB, my main is Viper, and her gameplay basically destroys half of the cast of any 2d fighter of the last 20 years. Imho, strictly. So we wont argue about that.

You should main Hokan, like a real man!

Still pissed I missed the art contest Crapcom had for 3S online edition. Not saying I would win, but it would have been fun to take a shot at drawing Remy and 12.

 

[V_Arnold]

You should main Hokan, like a real man!

Still pissed I missed the art contest Crapcom had for 3S online edition. Not saying I would win, but it would have been fun to take a shot at drawing Remy and 12.

I cant say I did not try. The first thing I did was to try him out when I bought SSFIV. But his style does not work with me too well, I am genetically unable to be good with (regular- or half-)grapplers.

 

[Raging Spaniard]

You should main Hokan, like a real man!

Still pissed I missed the art contest Crapcom had for 3S online edition. Not saying I would win, but it would have been fun to take a shot at drawing Remy and 12.

They had one?

Shit, I need a secretary :\

 

[Fersis]

They had one?

Shit, I need a secretary :\

Yup i sent a Terry Bogard that i drew with MS Paint.
* Crosses fingers *

On Topic: SF3rd Strike its awesome.. but Capcom couldnt balance it after 3 attempts.
Parry is the best mechanic ive seen though.

To be honest im not a 'balance or die!' kind of guy, im cool with tiers and such.
But the thing i really dislike about SF3 is the boring character design with the exception of Dudley,Makoto and Urien.

 

[MoxManiac]

Rufus is amazing. Sorry TTOB you are wrong as usual

 

[Kimosabae]

TTOB, my main is Viper, and her gameplay basically destroys half of the cast of any 2d fighter of the last 20 years. Imho, strictly. So we wont argue about that.

I'd agree with you, if it weren't for the fact that a lot of makes Viper fun/even viable are incidental exploits of SSF4's loosey-goose input system.

She looks God-awful in MvC3 to me.

*Still gonna try and play her.

 

[Degen]

Played 3rd Strike with some SRKers in town the other day and tried to get the hang of Alex and Hugo since I only seem to do well with grapplers in SSF4. I was never serious about this game when I played Anniversary Collection, so the results were... mixed, lol


thoughts:

- went from SSF4 in full HD straight to this, and the visuals actually held up well
- Feels like a totally different experience now that I understand gameplay mechanics and stuff
- Urien needs pants if he's ever gonna be rendered in 3D
- The fact that Hyper Bomb takes one(1) 360 motion is absolutely insane
- Hugo's heavy attacks look like they have some serious recovery time, but if he catches Yun in that 720, the opponent may as well just put the controller down right there
- LET'S GET IT ON YALL 10 9 8 7 6
- I definitely want 3rd Strike Online when it comes out, but I don't see how parrying will be possible (which is fine with me because how often do I not try to grab)

 

[RS4-]

Parrying will be fine online as long as it isn't anything like the HDR netcode.

Hyperbomb isn't that great of a super since they can still jump out after the flash and you don't have access to much ex meter.

 

[El Sloth]

Figured you guys would enjoy this: STREET FIGHTER III: THIRD STRIKE ZERO DAMAGE VIDEO

 

[Zombie James]

Figured you guys would enjoy this: STREET FIGHTER III: THIRD STRIKE ZERO DAMAGE VIDEO

Holy crap.

 

[Kai Dracon]

Two thoughts:

1. I am very interested in a re-release of SF3 if it is properly rebalanced. I have little interest in playing a game dominated by Yun n' Chun. I once saw a SF3 player desperately trying to defend it was fine because the top 4 characters still gave you like TEN WHOLE matchups or something. Screw that; I want the entire cast at least modestly viable. I play everyone.

2. I wonder what new excuse krusty kranks will come up with if, in five years, people are still in fact playing SFIV.

 

[DryEyeRelief]

1. I am very interested in a re-release of SF3 if it is properly rebalanced. I have little interest in playing a game dominated by Yun n' Chun. I once saw a SF3 player desperately trying to defend it was fine because the top 4 characters still gave you like TEN WHOLE matchups or something. Screw that; I want the entire cast at least modestly viable. I play everyone.

I find that a lot of the people who bitch the most about balance in fighting games are often the ones who have little to no experience being on the receiving end of a top player playing a top character.

 

[sixteen-bit]

Figured you guys would enjoy this: STREET FIGHTER III: THIRD STRIKE ZERO DAMAGE VIDEO

That was enjoyable. No Q though

 

[The Take Out Bandit]

Parrying would be fine if ASW provided the netcode. Instant blocking, which is basically a non counter intuitive parry (tap back instead of forward) works pretty well in BB:CS matches.

I'm also not a big stickler on perceived character balance. Some characters are earners and some aren't. I respect players who use hard working characters.

 

[Imm0rt4l]

Figured you guys would enjoy this: STREET FIGHTER III: THIRD STRIKE ZERO DAMAGE VIDEO

the yun/yang and akuma ones are my favorites in this video, dope stuff.

 

[El Sloth]

the yun/yang and akuma ones are my favorites in this video, dope stuff.

Yeah the end of the Akuma one was my favorite. I hope the guy decides to do more.

 

[The Take Out Bandit]

They had one?

Shit, I need a secretary :\

I was thinking of starting a gaming side fanart / contests thread for folks to post in, but I'm not the man for the job. :|

I also missed a Wayforward Christmas art contest. WAYFORWARD!!!! >:O

 

[The Take Out Bandit]

You know who else appreciates SF3?

Eurogamer: Some fighting game fans consider Guilty Gear to be the greatest fighting game ever made. But which one do you consider to be the greatest?

Daisuke Ishiwatari: Street Fighter III: Third Strike. It's the nervousness between you and your opponent that gives me joy. You have to guess what the next move is by your opponent. That was the most fun thing about the game. It was so enjoyable.

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2011-03-16-the-arc-of-fighting-interview?page=2

 

[charsace]

I really like this game, but at the same time it really wasn't street fighter.

Street Fighter 2 Turbo is still the king.

 

[To Far Away Times]

I figured Daisuke Ishiwatari would pick the faster and more combo heavy fighting games as his favorite. I'm surprised he picked SFIII:3S instead.

 

[charsace]

I figured Daisuke Ishiwatari would pick the faster and more combo heavy fighting games as his favorite. I'm surprised he picked SFIII:3S instead.

The 3 games play faster than other street fighters though and is more combo heavy. You have to fight in close to do damage and get a little wild in you decision making to be effective.

 

[The Take Out Bandit]

Hey!

What part of Street Fighter : 3rd Strike SUPER appreciation thread did you knuckleheads miss? >:|

 

[Slamtastic]

http://www.eventhubs.com/news/2011/...-wont-be-rebalanced-has-graphic-enhancements/

Can anyone listen to the vid and confirm?

Sucks if true.

I'd easily pay for Remy buffs, but without, I'm not so sure.

If I want to get beat up by Yun all day, I'll just go play AE.

I doubt the netcode will be as good as GGPO.

I doubt the graphical enhancements will extend beyond MvC2's filters.

 

[fubarduck]

http://www.eventhubs.com/news/2011/...-wont-be-rebalanced-has-graphic-enhancements/

Can anyone listen to the vid and confirm?

Sucks if true.

I'd easily pay for Remy buffs, but without, I'm not so sure.

If I want to get beat up by Yun all day, I'll just go play AE.

I doubt the netcode will be as good as GGPO.

I doubt the graphical enhancements will extend beyond MvC2's filters.

Look at what HDR did to Super Turbo. It's a steaming pile of garbage that plays like shit, looks like shit, and that nobody in Japan will touch in their own country. Thank God they are not doing the same thing to 3rd Strike.

If you want to win with Remy, study Pierrot videos. Pierrot doesn't need buffs to win with his character.

 

[DICKS AHOY]

Is it wrong that I keep piling in money in my university's SFIII:2nd Impact cabinet despite being horrible at the game? I absolutely adore how it looks and moves, prefer its cast to any other SF game and love the music but without any other friends into fighting games it's an uphill battle trying to get to grips with how the game plays.

Looking forward to the new online edition just so I have a chance to practice it at home (even if it's 3rd Strike and not 2nd Impact, luckily my favorite character's Dudley) and finally get up to Gill in the arcade version.

 

[CPS2]

I doubt the netcode will be as good as GGPO.

3S isn't that good on GGPO. You get black bars randomly blocking off part of the screen, sometimes the whole screen, and the KO message often pops up before the match is over (probably due to rollbacks) but it doesn't go away. Parrying isn't anywhere near as easy as offline either. I think they only added basic support for 3S.

And yeah no need to rebalance 3S. They already tried that once and everyone went back to the original version.

 

[TheOGB]

Is it wrong that I keep piling in money in my university's SFIII:2nd Impact cabinet despite being horrible at the game?

You're doing the right thing by supporting your university's apparently awesome taste in arcade games.

 

[Crisis]

I know it's Ono and that we have to take anything he says with a dump truck of salt, but why would they go to the effort of including "graphical enhancements" (whatever the fuck that means) and not add a few rebalancing features into the game? As it is, everyone's going to pick Yun/Chun-Li/Ken.

 

[DICKS AHOY]

You're doing the right thing by supporting your university's apparently awesome taste in arcade games.

We also have Marvel vs Capcom 2, Street Fighter Alpha 2 and King of Fighters '95!

Spoiler

Though I think they got rid of the MvsC2 cabinet late last year though.

 

[TheOGB]

We also have Marvel vs Capcom 2, Street Fighter Alpha 2 and King of Fighters '95!

Spoiler

Though I think they got rid of the MvsC2 cabinet late last year though.

i want to go to your school

 

[sixteen-bit]

by "graphical enhancements" I bet they mean "shitty hideous filters"

 

[Busaiku]

My school has CvS2, MvC2, T5, PJ, SFIII3S (2), SFA3, HotD4, TC4, and KoFNW.
Therefore, it wins!

 

[DICKS AHOY]

But does your school have Daytona USA?

Mine does.

... Aaaand one of the wheels is broken and seems to eerily rotate around the axis with a mind of its own.

 

[TheOGB]

goddammit why do your schools get awesome arcade games

 

[sixteen-bit]

Yeah well I go to school to learn

/salty

 

[Sohter.Nura]

I love to watch matches of the game, but for whattever reason I think the game is just not accessible to me. I can't just play and have fun with it, for whattever reason.

 

[Busaiku]

We don't have Daytona, but we have some Nascar game that I've never played.
There's actually also another place on campus with various machines that I never actually checked out before (so there could be even more games!), though I know there's another MvC2 machine.

 

[Alexios]

Yeah I never got into beat em ups until 3D stuff like Virtua Fighter and Tekken. Trying to play stuff like SF I just can't grasp even the basics at all. It's not the complexity of the moves or anything, they don't differ much from say, 10 hit Tekken 3 combos and such, but I just don't "get" the game. The same goes for Smash Bros. sadly..