Statue of Limitation
Member
While that makes sense, I think ND should have capable of finding a way around it - its the one weak part of the game for me.
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
The Last of Us: Remastered |OT| Game of the Years
- Thread starter VisceralBowl
- Start date
While that makes sense, I think ND should have capable of finding a way around it - its the one weak part of the game for me.
Haha, well that's a good point. I'd say that's where you apply the functional "stay" command that actually has the character listen and keeps them safe.
I wouldn't run and hide from the character I care about and go "Alright..now you just find some random way to follow me, good luck."
lol
Anyway, enough about AI. Screenshots look like nice, would love to play this on the PS4.
The solution is in my posts
.Summer Haze
Banned
Then maybe they could have set it so that when you are in deep shit, the friendly AI could rush in and act like it does in actual game now in order to help you and then resort back to being more cautious and distanced.
I understand the decision they made to make friendly AI invisible to enemies in comparison to having enemies spotting them. I think the choice they made was 100% correct, having enemies spot the friendly AI every few seconds would have been a nightmare....but I just wish they tried some other things, like my suggestion, for instance. I would have liked to see how that wouldn't turned out. I don't like to think they only thought of two possible ways to handle friendly AI.
Or maybe they did try it and it's explained in the video someone just posted? I dunno, I can't watch it at this minute. Either way, it wasn't too big of a deal, it just sometimes broke immersion enough for me to think about other ways they could have handled it.
Here you go:
#thisiswhathappenswhenurebuildAI5mthsb4release
I guess they did not fix the AI at all
The high-five at the end is the best. It's like "congratulations you've just snatched a ball from an 8 year old"
I wanna see a second gif when the father wanders down and throws her onto the field.
I disagree. It was one part of the game I was most thankful about. I was looking to play a 15 hour escort mission.
There are little things you can do to change the speed you move and you'll have no way to control how the so moves beyond issuing a command.
Haha, well that's a good point. I'd say that's where you apply the functional "stay" command that actually has the character listen and keeps them safe.
I wouldn't run and hide from the character I care about and go "Alright..now you just find some random way to follow me, good luck."
lol
Anyway, enough about AI. Screenshots look like nice, would love to play this on the PS4.
The solution is in my posts
I edited a part into my original comment about why the wait/stay also doesn't work for them. Remember the hype moment from E3 2012 when she threw a bottle at a guy and then Joel moved in and slammed his face into a desk? Its the same reason Elizabeth is invisible to enemies but is able to help you in combat. Adding a wait stay makes those moments not happen. It strengthens the relationship to a character through gameplay, rather than cutscenes and exposition walks.
Also in retrospect, I liked Elizabeth a lot more than Ellie. I never got connected to her. Then again, I typically don't connect to young or child characters (ex: Clementine, Nanako, etc)
This also explains why I am the only one in this thread who laughed his ass off at this gif.
Original Famous Ray
Member
Pumped for this! I never played the original game on PS3..shoot..outside of some videos I really haven't seen too much of it at all. Its all new for me and I can't wait!
mmm...this and Trails in the Sky (PC) on the same day. Gonna be a good day!
mmm...this and Trails in the Sky (PC) on the same day. Gonna be a good day!
Summer Haze
Banned
I dunno, it was just a quick thought. I just feel there could have been better ways to handle friendly AI. It's pretty much the only thing about this game that I can criticize.
BruiserBear
Banned
But making the partners invisible isn't the only option. The other option is to program the partners to not run ahead like they so often do. It doesn't really make any sense why they do that so much.
I am not sure if you have played TLOU but that gif is not the norm. It happens but not so frequently or is it that absurd. I would argue Tom Clancy games do not have companion AI that do half the things that Ellie does in TLOU. There could be an argument that ND should not have introduced dynamic moments such as Elllie stabbing enemies in the back during battle or throwing stones etc to distract enemies and instead just made her stay in a corner and not participate at all and make it a standard escort mission like any other game. I am glad ND did not follow that route though.
Summer Haze
Banned
If they had the AI "fixed" these boards would go bananas and people would be complaining that Ellie keeps getting them spotted by the enemy...
The only way to actually "fix" this correctly, is to have some form of commands which the player controls, ie "stay here" , "wait" , "follow" etc.
But this is not an easy fix and certainly not something you can apply to an already created gameplay design. This would be a new gameplay mechanic and as such needs a ton of work from the design team in numerous ways.
As it is now it is the best solution possible, so as not to be unfair to the player.
The only way to actually "fix" this correctly, is to have some form of commands which the player controls, ie "stay here" , "wait" , "follow" etc.
But this is not an easy fix and certainly not something you can apply to an already created gameplay design. This would be a new gameplay mechanic and as such needs a ton of work from the design team in numerous ways.
As it is now it is the best solution possible, so as not to be unfair to the player.
Or we can use my favorite theory that Ellie is a figment of Joels imagination due to the inability of him coping after
Sarah dies
I get that people want it and I would be fine if they offered it as an option. I just feel like harder difficulties would become telling xyz to wait at the start of the area. Clear enough of the area where they could get through fine and then telling them to come. And that seems immersion breaking too.
It also doesn't address when you have 2 or 3 companions. Things would be even harder then.
Assume the worst.
Eh.
I didn't really even care much when she "died". I even made a joke to myself that we should bury her at the Junes parking lot.
I am terrible, I know.
Oh, i know it's not the norm. It just totally breaks immersion and makes me laugh when it happens in games.
I only really payed it attention in this thread as I just got The Bureau for $3 from GMG and it reminded me of how dumb the companion AI can act. It's pretty hilarious...and much more frequent.
I had the whole, other games can get this right...what were they doing??..thing in my head from playing that "X-Com" game.
Jimmyfenix
Member
It is almost too good.
This is one of the few games, that even with the highest of expectations it's impossible to be let down. It's that good.
fluffydelusions
Member
Assume the worst. I ain't taking responsibility if the game doesn't meet your expectations thus causing you to vent on every TLOU forum about how the game is overrated.
Also please understand this isn't meant to attack you in anyway, just my hatred for the word overrated, since all it means is you didn't like something as much as a bunch of other people.
Me on the other hand... I already purchased my ticket for the hype plane/train solely for the MP. That I can promise is fantastic.
HueyFreeman
Banned
lol well this is one way to almost guarantee someone's let down.
off duty ninja
Member
Having just recently played Watch Dogs the "wait" and "follow" concept can still be pretty aggravating. There are multiple instances in that game where you have to watch an AI partner on camera and guide them to safety. These were my least favorite missions in the game. I like it the way it is so I am glad they don't want to change it.
Yay for me!!
You've been providing me with new .gifs for my folder all morning. Thanks dude.
I vote that x-Lundz-x is banished from The Last of Us threads.
He has violated the one rule of the threads. You assume the worst or you don't assume at all!
Wishmaster92
Member
off duty ninja
Member
That's more like it!
Oh yeah I agree it is immersion breaking. I hope this gen they make companion AI more dynamic but at the same time avoid those kind of situations. There is no fun or challenge in having companion AI in a stealth game just hanging around in a corner and not participating in the battle. Hopefully ND and other dev's solve such problems with more memory and easier programming this gen.
I agree somewhat although I think it works better from a story perspective if Ellie is close to you during fights. It's Joel's job to protect her so If she just runs off and hides then there's no real feeling that she is also in danger.
It is irritating when she does the old clicker shuffle straight past them with no response though. Breaks the immersion a fair bit.
Yeah just keep a dumpster in every area and do the ol re4 "Hide" & "Follow me!" thing.
No
i've got 4 friends who never played it who have PS4s and are planning on getting it, and they've been hearing me say it's basically the greatest thing ever created for a year now. i'm prepared for at least two of them to call me a dick next week. whatever
psychotron
Member
Oddworld is definitely helping with the wait, but I'm dying to experience dat 60fps on TLOU.
I guess they did not fix the AI at all
You missed the best frames from that comic though...
AI is hard and I am happy they went this way instead of the alternative of letting AI characters getting you into shitty situations from sucking at stealth.
But the game controls all the characters. Why can't they just move the enemies and friends that they don't see each-other ?
Word. Im bouncing between Earthbound and Ninja Gaiden Sigma. Got Lunar: Silver Star on the way too. No way I'll finish any of them before Tuesday, but it's plenty to keep me occupied.
aygomyownroad
Member
Completed TLOU on the PS3 this week. I envy those who are about to pick this up for the first time.
An amazing game, and one I will pick up when I get a PS4.
An amazing game, and one I will pick up when I get a PS4.
TheLostBigBoss
Banned
That kinda gets hard when one AI is reading five different dudes at once.
It would probably go insane and do even more retarded shit.
Because that would make the gameplay pretty much 100% scripted. Developers want to build tension. If the player knows that wherever Ellie goes it is safe as no enemies will look at her, then it would be even more ridiculous, as the player will simply go to Ellie whenever shit hits the fan. And that would break the game completely.
WeAreStarStuff
Member
Enraging.
But they can't at this point in technology, there is no good AI-companion that can do stealth dynamically and intelligently with the player without ever being found or mess up.
Gray Matter
Member
Hype seems deflated in this thread now.
We need some energy back in this thread.
How dare you question our hype?