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The Legend of Zelda : Majora's Mask 3D to introduce "Feather Statues" (for saves)

L~A

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Jan 19, 2013
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This comes from the product description on Amazon.de :

Mithilfe von Eulen- und neuen Federstatuen, die in ganz Termina zu finden sind, kannst du dein Abenteuer jetzt jederzeit speichern.

Translation by magicalsoundshower:

With the help of owl statues and the new feather statues, which can be found all over Termina, you can now save your adventure anytime you like

Those Feather Statues are definitely new... I guess they allow for permanent saves? In the original game, only way to save permanently was using the song of time... the owl statues only allowed for temporary saves that would be deleted when you selected it from the main menu.

My guess is you can only save permanently via those Feather Statues (without using the song of time), in order to keep it as close to the original as possible (vs: you can now save at any time like in most modern Zelda games).

Credits to Inspectah_Deck for pointing that out in the other thread.

Source
 

jonno394

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May 28, 2010
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I dont understand why they would keep the owl statues (temporary saves) if they're making them pointless by having full save statues (feather).

Why would they have both systems in place? Maybe you get to choose before starting whether your game has feather statues (full save..."normal mode") or owl statues (temp..."hard mode")
 
May 8, 2012
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(vs: you can now save at any time like in most modern Zelda games).

Actually, you couldn't do this in Skyward Sword and A Link Between Worlds either, the two most recent/modern Zelda games. The system works pretty much the same in those games as what you're describing in the OP. Personally I'm all for it. Iirc gaffers fear that gamers will abuse the permanent-saving system what with time-management but I really don't think the average gamer is the kind of person who reloads saves to do something faster.
 

Illucio

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I take it... Not bad though, I still have to question why we can't just perma save via menu option though.

But whatever, my game will be running with my 3DS closed for the majority of the time, and because of old habit I will probably be saving by going back in time irregardless.
 

L~A

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Well, the Owl Statues allows for teleporation via the Song of Soaring (iirc?), for one.

And the Feather Statues are maybe found only in certain palces you can't teleport to, like dungeons entrance.

Actually, you couldn't do this in Skyward Sword and A Link Between Worlds either, the two most recent/modern Zelda games. The system works pretty much the same in those games as what you're describing in the OP. Personally I'm all for it. Iirc gaffers fear that gamers will abuse the permanent-saving system what with time-management but I really don't think the average gamer is the kind of person who reloads saves to do something faster.

Yeah, that's why I said 'most modern Zelda games' instead of 'all modern Zelda games'. It's certainly a good compromise, at least, based on what little info we have at the moment.
 

L~A

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Brian★;146775521 said:
I don't get this system, someone explain?

That's the thing: we don't know yet, Amazon's description doesn't say more than what is in the OP.
 
May 8, 2012
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Yeah, that's why I said 'most modern Zelda games' instead of 'all modern Zelda games'. It's certainly a good compromise, at least, based on what little info we have at the moment.

Most modern Zelda games = games released in 2006 and earlier?

Right.
 

MrPanic

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Aug 17, 2014
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I dont understand why they would keep the owl statues (temporary saves) if they're making them pointless by having full save statues (feather).

Why would they have both systems in place? Maybe you get to choose before starting whether your game has feather statues (full save..."normal mode") or owl statues (temp..."hard mode")

Could you not warp to the owl statues in the original MM? So the feather statues are probably for saving the game and the owl statues are the same but you can also warp to them. That seems like the most reasonable explanation for both statues being there.

edit: Lol, that's exactly what L~A said.
 

Conkerkid11

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Aug 1, 2013
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Well crap. I was counting on menu saves, because I really don't think this will work for a portable device that has as bad a standby battery life as the 3DS.
 

Rich!

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So this is like a mix between the original and a link between world's system? Sucks that they're changing it, but really thats the best option for a handheld.

Keeps the difficulty and game structure intact without catering to those silly people whining about the save system. Don't like it? Git gud.

So so so glad they arent changing the game's clock system!!
 

NewGame

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May 26, 2013
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Save statues were located:

1 in the town
1 in each location (4 total)
1 outside of every dungeon entrance (4 total)

Each statue had 2 functions, it allowed you to save suspend your game and come back to it later or have you warp to it when you played 'The Song Of Soaring' learned after activating the first statue out of the town.

Once you quit the game and continue your suspended save the save file is deleted so you have to suspend save again to keep playing on that 'cycle' that you were just playing on. If you played the song of time then all of your stuff would reset (rupees, items, dungeons, events) and you'd be taken back to the starting point of Clock Town. You do however get to keep persistent items.



My only guess is that these new statues allow you to make a checkpoint that you can reload whenever you want, sure that would be easier but honestly Majora's Mask was the perfect curve of difficulty for me even with things like trying to climb Snowhead or locate the Zora Eggs, if you can't do that in the 3 days (Even with the song of slow time!) then you're bad at the game and should be punished for it.
 
Dec 23, 2012
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You mean the perfectly fine saving system that the entire game is designed around?

It's not godawful in any way whatsoever.

No, I mean the pointlessly obtuse save system, vaguely designed around the core mechanic of the game, that could very easily cause the player to lose hours of progress all in the name of being "hard." Which is ironic, as it doesn't actually make the game any harder, just more tedious, much like how recent "hard" platforming levels from Nintendo lack a checkpoint.
 
May 12, 2009
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Looks like something got lost in translation:

Mithilfe von Eulen- und neuen Federstatuen, die in ganz Termina zu finden sind, kannst du dein Abenteuer jetzt jederzeit speichern.

With the help of owl statues and the new feather statues, which can be found all over Termina, you can now save your adventure anytime you like
.

Looks like he left out the "anytime" part which is clearly in the original German.

Here's some more food for thought: The term "Feder" is ambiguous in German, it can also mean "spring" (the mechanical kind).
 

Rich!

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No, I mean the pointlessly obtuse save system, vaguely designed around the core mechanic of the game, that could very easily cause the player to lose hours of progress all in the name of being "hard." Which is ironic, as it doesn't actually make the game any harder, just more tedious, much like how recent "hard" platforming levels from Nintendo lack a checkpoint.

Not in the slightest, imo. It's not to make the game hard, its a key mechanic to link the events of the world and characters with your playing experience.

Play the reverse song of time and you have over three hours in a cycle. You have a chance to reset time before you enter each dungeon. Once you get the main item, you can skip the first half of the dungeon. If you cant finish a dungeon in three hours plus then you simply suck at Zelda games. Sorry, the game isn't for you.

Can't believe so many people whine about it. It's like going to Dark Souls and complaining that the entire human/hollow structure is fucked. No, its by design and should stay that way.
 

L~A

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Looks like something got lost in translation:



.

Looks like he left out the "anytime" part which is clearly in the original German.

Here's some more food for thought: The term "Feder" is ambiguous in German, it can also mean "spring" (the mechanical kind).

Statues on spring? That's... odd.

And yeah, wasn't sure about the "anytime" part, added your translation to the OP.

But it's weird that you need statues to save at any time... it's not really at any time if you need to go to a statue.
 

McNum

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Jul 6, 2009
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Excellent news.

Majora's Mask really had an abomination of a save system. Total usability failure. These Feather Statues sound promising. Hopefully they're hard saves and not just suspend saves, since suspending sort of becomes redundant on a system with Sleep Mode.

Now watch as these statues are placed at about five minute intervals on foot and next to all the midway points in the longer questlines, maybe even outside each Boss Door, so you can just save and retry if you fail. Because making the player redo a whole three day cycle now a days, especially on a handheld where 10 minute burst play is nearly mandatory, just isn't going to happen.

So, good on Nintendo. Now, put the Reverse Song of Time and the Double Song of Time in the submenu music screen with all the other songs, maybe add a part in the second cycle where someone explicitly teaches them to Link.
 

DeaviL

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Sep 11, 2013
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Statues on spring? That's... odd.

And yeah, wasn't sure about the "anytime" part, added your translation to the OP.

But it's weird that you need statues to save at any time... it's not really at any time if you need to go to a statue.

It could be an item that you carry with you that allows you to save when you have it?
 

Rich!

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So, good on Nintendo. Now, put the Reverse Song of Time and the Double Song of Time in the submenu music screen with all the other songs, maybe add a part in the second cycle where someone explicitly teaches them to Link.

Sure, lets get them to explain the route through every dungeon whilst they're at it. I mean hell, whats the point of letting gamers work stuff out themselves?

The scarecrow already fits the purpose of explaining the reverse song of time and a cutscene introduces him to every player in the first half hour!

Sigh. As I explained above, the save system is fine. Can't believe so many people hate it.
 

z0m3le

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Not in the slightest, imo. It's not to make the game hard, its a key mechanic to link the events of the world and characters with your playing experience.

Play the reverse song of time and you have over three hours in a cycle. You have a chance to reset time before you enter each dungeon. Once you get the main item, you can skip the first half of the dungeon. If you cant finish a dungeon in three hours plus then you simply suck at Zelda games. Sorry, the game isn't for you.

Can't believe so many people whine about it. It's like going to Dark Souls and complaining that the entire human/hollow structure is fucked. No, its by design and should stay that way.

They added the owl statues outside of Japan, so they already changed the saving mechanics from the original when you played it. This is just about convenience, it doesn't make the game easier or harder.
 

Conor_Fool

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Nov 27, 2012
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Uhh I feel like permanent save systems like this are a given when remaking a game ~15 years later, and they are definitely a good thing. I'm also sure the game will either slow down time or teach you to
sing the song of time backwards
pretty much immediately.

Sounds pointless. There wasn't anything wrong with the original save system.

There really was, at least for a lot of people
 

daydream

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Oct 31, 2009
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Statues on spring? That's... odd.

And yeah, wasn't sure about the "anytime" part, added your translation to the OP.

But it's weird that you need statues to save at any time... it's not really at any time if you need to go to a statue.

Yeah, magicalsoundshower's translation is the correct one.

I'm personally ok with a more accessible save system. Although I never had any issues with one-time saves, either.
 

Rich!

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They added the owl statues outside of Japan, so they already changed the saving mechanics from the original when you played it. This is just about convenience, it doesn't make the game easier or harder.

No. The owl statues added temporary quick saves which were deleted as soon as you loaded them. That's not even slightly the same as this which gets rid of the song of time saving function entirely and introduces permanent save statues instead. It changes the entire save system.
 
Dec 23, 2012
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Not in the slightest, imo. It's not to make the game hard, its a key mechanic to link the events of the world and characters with your playing experience.

Play the reverse song of time and you have over three hours in a cycle. You have a chance to reset time before you enter each dungeon. Once you get the main item, you can skip the first half of the dungeon. If you cant finish a dungeon in three hours plus then you simply suck at Zelda games.

Can't believe so many people whine about it. It's like going to Dark Souls and complaining that the entire human/hollow structure is fucked. No, its by design and should stay that way.

Look, I shouldn't have to be in fear of repeating a dungeon or a sidequest if by chance the game glitches or I lose power or my cat steps on the reset button. This isn't a problem with games like NSMBU that use suspend saves as there's not only a permanent save after every castle, but it's the type of game that can easily just be picked up and played. There's no reason outside of trying to be different for the game not to just have permanent saves at the statues.

Anyways, I'm glad that they're doing something.

EDIT: Kinda sound like it's a suspend save at anytime. :/ It's better, but it's still bad.
 

McNum

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Sure, lets get them to explain the route through every dungeon whilst they're at it. I mean hell, whats the point of letting gamers work stuff out themselves?

The scarecrow already fits the purpose of explaining the reverse song of time and a cutscene introduces him to every player in the first half hour!

Sigh. As I explained above, the save system is fine. Can't believe so many people hate it.
I didn't say that. But both songs are actual songs that pop a "You played..." dialog when played, and yet unlike the rest of the songs that do that, they're missing from the subscreen. Consistency is a good thing.

And placing this tutorial on the FIRST cycle is wrong since the player has not yet acquired the Ocarina. It has to be on the SECOND cycle, preferably as soon as Link exits the Clock Tower in human form for the first time. That's when that tutorial should hit. Majora's Mask has a ton of these little usability flaws, and the save system is just the really big one. It would also be nice to be able to set a Bomber's Notebook quest to be displayed on the clock. It's a little thing, but it would make it faster to keep track of that information.

As for "Showing the route through the dungeon", well, it's called the Compass. It shows every room and item location in the dungeon. Classic Zelda item that one. I wouldn't be surprised if Tatl gets a bit more talkative, though.
 

HawthorneKitty

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Cool, now when I just want to experience the Final Boss, I don't have to jump through a ton of songs.
 

TheMoon

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This comes from the product description on Amazon.de :



Here's a translation by Nibel:



Alternate translation by magicalsoundshower:



Those Feather Statues are definitely new... I guess they allow for permanent saves? In the original game, only way to save permanently was using the song of time... the owl statues only allowed for temporary saves that would be deleted when you selected it from the main menu.

My guess is you can only save permanently via those Feather Statues (without using the song of time), in order to keep it as close to the original as possible (vs: you can now save at any time like in most modern Zelda games).

Credits to Inspectah_Deck for pointing that out in the other thread.

Source

FYI

Alternate translation by magicalsoundshower:

With the help of owl statues and the new feather statues, which can be found all over Termina, you can now save your adventure anytime you like

This translation is more complete than the other one. Nibel's translation is missing the "anytime" part from the German original.
 
Dec 23, 2012
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What exactly was wrong with the save system as it was?

It's the idea of using suspend saves in a game in which you're likely to be playing for long stretches of time. As a game player, I like to save my game a lot, and I also play games in very long stretches, especially Zelda, so I'm presented with a problem in which I have to choose whether or not I want to keep playing without the ability to save anything, or if I want to quit so that I can save. This is obtuse, especially considering the idea, that at any moment something can happen that's completely out of your control that'll cause the game to shut off, like losing power, or accidentally pressing the reset button. Likewise, having permanent saves doesn't really take much away, I mean who here stops playing the minute you save every single time? No one, you're gonna keep playing regardless of how many times you save, the only "problem" is that permanent saves make it easier to repeat a part of the cycle by resetting the game and reloading it, but you can all ready do that by using the second file to store your suspend saves, and it's not some huge problem or anything like that.

Also, I know that they're not, but "feather statues" kinda sound like some kind of currency that would deplete every time you permanent save.
 

Huggers

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It's the idea of using suspend saves in a game in which you're likely to be playing for long stretches of time. As a game player, I like to save my game a lot, and I also play games in very long stretches, especially Zelda, so I'm presented with a problem in which I have to choose whether or not I want to keep playing without the ability to save anything, or if I want to quit so that I can save. This is obtuse, especially considering the idea, that at any moment something can happen that's completely out of your control that'll cause the game to shut off, like losing power, or accidentally pressing the reset button. Likewise, having permanent saves doesn't really take much away, I mean who here stops playing the minute you save every single time? No one, you're gonna keep playing regardless of how many times you save, the only "problem" is that permanent saves make it easier to repeat a part of the cycle by resetting the game and reloading it, but you can all ready do that by using the second file to store your suspend saves, and it's not some huge problem or anything like that.

I finished Majoras Mask for the first time last year and never once was bothered by the system. In fact I found it very neat and tidy. You get into a routine of playing the song of reverse time and you have ages to get done what needs doing. You could gain an advantage by being able to save constantly and really the save system is built around the games time system. And come on, how many times have you accidentally hit reset!?
 

z0m3le

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No. The owl statues added temporary quick saves which were deleted as soon as you loaded them. That's not even slightly the same as this which gets rid of the song of time saving function entirely and introduces permanent save statues instead. It changes the entire save system.

??? I didn't see that anywhere. Permanent saves is really a small change as you always have to go back in time and lose "x" items to have enough time to finish the game, it's not like you could just beat the game without using the song of time.
 
Dec 23, 2012
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I finished Majoras Mask for the first time last year and never once was bothered by the system. In fact I found it very neat and tidy. You get into a routine of playing the song of reverse time and you have ages to get done what needs doing. You could gain an advantage by being able to save constantly and really the save system is built around the games time system. And come on, how many times have you accidentally hit reset!?

I've beaten MM, plenty of times, and once or twice I've lost a hour or two of progress by my power going out, having the ability to actually keep playing without having to quit to save would have prevented that. Also, I really don't see how having to ability to permanently save ruins the game, all it does is allow you to repeat something if you're willing to quit and reload the game, that's not a big deal. I mean hell, having to quit to reload is pretty clunky, I'd probably just redo it in game then go through all that.
 
Feb 28, 2012
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Here's some more food for thought: The term "Feder" is ambiguous in German, it can also mean "spring" (the mechanical kind).
Don´t think they mean a mechanical spring, but the "Schreibfeder", often used for save symbols:


This translation is more complete than the other one. Nibel's translation is missing the "anytime" part from the German original.
Yeah, why not use my translation from the original post, it was complete from the beginning...
 

McNum

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Jul 6, 2009
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I finished Majoras Mask for the first time last year and never once was bothered by the system. In fact I found it very neat and tidy. You get into a routine of playing the song of reverse time and you have ages to get done what needs doing. You could gain an advantage by being able to save constantly and really the save system is built around the games time system. And come on, how many times have you accidentally hit reset!?
Ah, you haven't played the Virtual Console or Anniversary Collection versions, I can see. Two words: "Random crashes". For many games that's a problem. for Majora's Mask, it's catastrophic.

And for a portable, we add two new words: "Battery Life". For a portable Majora's Mask, the save system has to change. It worked well enough for the original N64 version, but this isn't a console. It's a handheld. If you can "check in" and make a permanent save every so often at these new statues, well, you only risk the last 5-10 minutes of gameplay, instead of the last 90 like in the original.

It's either this or checkpoints at entering new areas. And nobody wants those in a Zelda game.
 

Skyfireblaze

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Dec 19, 2011
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Hmm if I should interpret the "anytime" part it sounds like they mean it like this:

With the new statues you can now save your game anytime you like (by visiting them) instead of having to reset the time to permanently "save"

But that's just my interpretation and the "reset time" thing isn't in the original sentence though it would make sense like this :p
 

McNum

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Well, we know from the Direct that the Song of Time does NOT save your game in Majora's Mask 3D. The word "Save" was missing from the confirmation dialog after playing it.
 

LeGourmand

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Apr 22, 2013
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Well this make sens. I mean lot's a people use their 3DS for short gameplay session. With these new kind of save, you can play on the bus for 20 minutes and still make real progress that you can continue the next day.

And you want the original experience, you can just ignore those new save.