God bless the ignore feature. When you see the same ignorant, bigoted and racist posters pop up in similar threads, you know you did the right thing.
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Three Muslim Siblings booted off plane because text on phone was in Arabic
- Thread starter excelsiorlef
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God bless the ignore feature. When you see the same ignorant, bigoted and racist posters pop up in similar threads, you know you did the right thing.
Guido Menzio (UPenn Professor) was kicked off the plane for writing math equations just a few weeks ago. He's pretty white.
Not saying it doesn't happen more often to brown skinned individuals as I'm sure it does. But it's not always a one way street.
The bit about getting shot in the streets is even stranger given that most violence by whites seems to be directed at whites, with 3.6% attacking black victims (quite a bit lower than the proportion of black individuals in the US).
http://www.amren.com/news/2015/07/new-doj-statistics-on-race-and-violent-crime/
In other words, statistically, white criminals are less likely to attack black individuals even accounting for the fact that there are fewer black individuals around -- in other words, in a "colorblind" society, even more blacks would be attacked by whites than what we see occurring today. If I had to guess, I would say this is because generally crime tends to occur locally, and we have quite a bit of de facto racial segregation in real estate markets.
This is based off the National Crime Victimization Survey so shouldn't be influenced by things like differential arrest rates by police. However, there are always caveats to any data source -- maybe black victims harmed by white individuals are less likely to answer the survey or something.
I know, and I regret that I ever posted to begin with. That's not the position I hold, and it's exactly the position that I can easily see being put across by how I worded things. It was a stupid point I was trying to make anyway. I try to view everyone equally the same, and sometimes it's more difficult for me, but never more difficult than it is to tie my shoes or put a coat on, if that makes sense. I have a stereotype towards all different races, including that of my own, sometimes overcoming those stereotypes I have requires a little more conscious effort, maybe more awareness on my part. Some people have much harsher stereotypes than I do and some even act upon them, which is absolutely wrong. I'm not perfect, sorry to anyone I upset
To your first question, I'm not sure the race of the individual reporting is ever reported, so I'm not sure where you are making this assumption. But I would also guess that whites fly quite a bit more than blacks or latinos, per capita. (Probably not Asians given higher average income).
To your last statement, I think your statistics might be out of date. Whites are less likely to attack blacks than they are other whites, even accounting for the different population shares. (edit: See my post just a few posts above.)
Not that we don't have structural racism (especially in income, education, and real estate), but statistically, your fear specifically of white on black violence is not as "logical" as you claim.
Only if you conveniently ignore the police.
Oh, we got someone here to whitesplain this to us, huh?
Guido Menzio (UPenn Professor) was kicked off the plane for writing math equations just a few weeks ago. He's pretty white.
Not saying it doesn't happen more often to brown skinned individuals as I'm sure it does. But it's not always a one way street. .
Weird example, as I'm pretty sure he was singled out because he didn't look traditional white. As the WashingtonPost article linked in the neogaf thread about it states, he was olive skinned with curly bushy hair and a thick foreign accent. He was false flagged as Arab because he didn't look white, at least not the type of white that makes people feel safer (Nordic-type white).
Remember that this happened in America. Greeks, Italians, and Spanish get mistaken for Arabic origins all the time.
MistakenMobius
Member
Do you really think it's not the case?
The larger European population doesn't care about the right of a few brown people trampled if it's make them feel safer.
Yesterday the Jew and the Protestant.
Today the Muslim.
Politician are shitscared to drop once more the ball. That why they are upping the theater security without doing anything really efficient ...
I would think the National Crime Victimization Survey would include police-related violence. Since it's asking for both reported and non-reported crimes... but I can't find documentation specifically on this.
Still it seems that by most estimates police-related shootings account for about 2-5% of total homicides. Some of those may actually be in legitimate self-defense (whose to say without body cams).
This is only one type of violence, but police are probably not committing enough crimes to entirely flip the script here. Even if per capita they commit more crimes, there are only 1.1 million police officers, and some of them will commit crimes on individuals of the same color.
All that being said, I do think there's serious, structural racism that's needs addressing -- both within the police and in our society generally.
So I'm unable to contribute to the discussion with relevant data because of your assumptions about my skin color. Okay, sure.
witchedwiz
Member
maybe i can be so detached because I'm on the other side of the fence but I don't agree..
I understand the limits of racial profiling, but recognizing the limits means that if you want to replace that thing, you have to supply an alternative, else it's all wishful thinking..
until we have a more effective way to recognize potential terrorist threats, I don't see other way to approach this issue...
I'm human hence I fear.. I take a flight once per month for work, so I'm very touchy on the subject of flight hijacking..
If you are able to mantain a pristine mind, not giving in to your fear for your own hide as a "false alarm" would just harm the pride//human rights of the guy sitting next to you, then you're a better person than me (i would say you're more of an optimst, but I'll grant that I'm the one that is overly preoccupied)..
and trust me that if "chance" is an indication of anything I *might* get stopped myself, as I'm not the usual white.. I'm from souther italy, my skin is white during winter/autumn and it gradually goes to olie brown from spring to summer
at times I sports a grumpy beard and curly hairs, so if Guido Menzio is an indication, I might as well be stopped XD
Laughing Banana
Weeping Pickle
So in other words, in order for you to feel fully comfortable, you'd much prefer if muslims/arabs/brown people just don't travel by plane at all, huh.
Considering that you agree to use racial profiling to recognize "potential terrorist threats" after all, so the logic goes that those that don't fall victim to racial profiling--aka white people--are your only preferred traveling companions, yeah?
Yeah, airport security here is pretty much exactly the same, process wise, as in the US, though they are much more likely to let you keep your shoes on here.
Seems like not a week goes by without one of these paranoia-fuelled stories in the press. Way to propagate frustration, alienation and justifiable anger in a whole segment of your population.
Granted he has dark hair, but I feel the "olive-skin" stuff is pure editorializing.
Here he is with another person. They both look white to me.
'
Or another shot of him (edit: it was the same shot I posted before, removed).
Though I agree it's hard to tell given potential lighting conditions or maybe if he had gotten a tan. But I agree that the person initially reporting him probably thought he was Muslim. In other words, even white people can also be misinterpreted as Muslims. Maybe less likely to occur, but it can happen.
How convenient!
You're missing the point. A minority being fearful of a random white person just because they are white is fairly baseless - because most white people are not going to attempt to harm them. However, we have had multiple widely-covered events and developing patterns over the years of the police being called on minorities for simply being minorities and it resulting in everything from humiliation and severe inconvenience to death.
I think if there were an equally frequent occurrence of these types of stories where the cops were called on white people (with similar outcomes) there might be room to suggest that minorities' fears are unfounded. But where are those incidents?
If nothing else, these type of threads is an easy way to fill my ignore list.
witchedwiz
Member
I won't stoop at low as answering in spade this blatant provocation..
I stated a simple fact.. as of now racial screening during airport investigation is a source of discomfort that can possibly save many..
i for one, would rather produce discomforts to a third person, than risk lifes, but if you want to have different priorities feel free to.. and i wouldn't blame this behaviour off some other people..
is it perfect? no..
is it better than nothing? yes
excelsiorlef
Member
They were screened before they boarded.... aka went through security.
Love you trying to take moral high-ground though, cute
It sounds like we both agree but I think there was a miscommunication. If the poster had originally specified that "blacks have more to fear from cops logically speaking" I'd say sure, the statistics do seem to support that. The quote was more about "blacks have more to fear from whites" and no where specifically mentioned fear related to police. Police are a small fraction of the total population (less than half a percent) and do not seem to commit enough violence per capita to adjust the overall racial breakdown of violent crime. They might be scary, but that should not translate into a fear about whites in general (as you seem to agree).
Secondly I agree wholeheartedly that we need better data on police violence. Even the most careful statistical analysis to date (by Roland Fryer) was lacking in the generalizability of it's results -- specifically because we don't have this stuff nationalized.
Laughing Banana
Weeping Pickle
So in other words, you don't mind people being racially prejudiced against if that means your own comfort are not being inconvenienced, or that by doing so your own personal convenience is assured. That also means that your personal convenience, whether you are feeling comfortable or not, is directly related to how many people that are typically racially prejudiced against--brown people, for example--are near you.
"Racial profiling is okay, because it ensures my comfort." Though I kinda like how you frame it with the term "saving lives", as if they're done purely for noble causes.
Okay.
D
Deleted member 20920
Unconfirmed Member
So you're saying we should trust the words and actions of some random passengers so long as they're not Muslims or Muslim looking? Because that's what's happening here. Why should we let a random passenger's complaint be taken seriously without any questioning?
Everyone who supports the actions of this airline and say whatever they want in as many words as they can but this is them being racist, anti-islam and performing profiling.
Newtype-001
Member
Do white people just walk with their eyes shut going outside of Europe and America?
The funniest part is that airport screening does cost lives, ultimately. Through increased driving which leads to accidents (plus probably a bunch of other unreported ones like doctors who miss flights and surgeries or something).
http://www.vox.com/2016/5/17/11687014/tsa-against-airport-security
People think radicalization only happens when you let a crazy preacher tell you how to think and fail to consider perhaps it's a result of being treated in a certain way by all of society
Four_Chamber
Member
Ignorant twats, sad to see this dumb shit spread outside of the US.
Best part is that the dumbasses who report this stuff almost certainly don't know how to read Arabic. I think this is the best system- if you're gonna report someone, know that the plane is gonna be grounded for a little while.
Best part is that the dumbasses who report this stuff almost certainly don't know how to read Arabic. I think this is the best system- if you're gonna report someone, know that the plane is gonna be grounded for a little while.
uncleniccius
Member
If "suspicious behaviour" was reported then I can understand the police investigating. They pretty much have to in fact because of how much shit would hit the fan in the unlikely event something did indeed happen. The article doesn't appear to say what they were told, but better safe than sorry. This should apply regardless of what colour/who the person reported is.
With that said..
Fuck whoever reported it. This isn't suspicious behaviour. They very well may have made it out to be so though. It is beyond words how horrible some people are. It is a really sad reflection of the point at which we are at.
With that said..
Fuck whoever reported it. This isn't suspicious behaviour. They very well may have made it out to be so though. It is beyond words how horrible some people are. It is a really sad reflection of the point at which we are at.
Yeah. My father's white (and his entire family tree is pretty much 100% ethnically French), but he has fairly tanned skin and dark curly hair. Because of that, he's getting randomly checked at airports and has experienced random acts of racism. I remember one time walking home with him and my brother, who's also pretty tanned. I was about 10 meters behind them, and I see a guy drive past, open his window and yell something along the lines of "go back to your country you fucking Arabs" before driving off. And that was before 9/11...
To some people "brown(ish) skin" = "Arab" = terrorist = etc... This is why people saying "it's not racism it's just islamophobia" are full of shit. There's a huge amount of racism involved.
freeofgreed
Member
C'mon dude get out of here with that nonsense. That wasn't a blatant provocation, he just put into words exactly what you described. The fact that you are okay with blatant discrimination. Own up to your bullshit and admit that and stop trying to take the moral high ground.
Also you're far more likely to be killed by white extremist than a radical muslim if you live in the US.
http://time.com/3934980/right-wing-extremists-white-terrorism-islamist-jihadi-dangerous/
https://thinkprogress.org/you-are-m...-by-muslim-terrorists-417f3c3461db#.onnjsumoj
Do you support racial profiling of all white people in that case?
Regulus Tera
Romanes Eunt Domus
India is one of the most populated countries on Earth. Nearly 200 million Indians practice Islam.
Englebert3rd
Unconfirmed Member
Nah, they just report everyone to the police.
This won't be an isolated incident though, there will be many more. All thanks to this Brexit crap, giving racist people confidence.
Might be hyperbolic, but the UK has got a lot more racist. Probably more than the US.
freeofgreed
Member
Laughing Banana
Weeping Pickle
LOTS of Muslims don't understand Arabic at all, in fact.
Englebert3rd
Unconfirmed Member
Yeah, I've rushed on writing that one and the US is definitely a wrong country to choose.
He's in Europe, and there's a rightwing panic over the threats presented by the migrant populations. Funny since most migrants cannot afford air travel and opt to move on ground and boat.
MistakenMobius
Member
Lot of left people are also in Panic.
Euro bernie bro are also shifting that they can get killed in their fancy rive gauche cafè
What? Flying is cheaper than car train or boat travel at least in Germany... It's too cheap you could say
Is it better then nothing ? No, because it creates more problems. And funny because it's not your discomfort to feel so your happy to accept it. And this idea of life being threatened is a slippery slope fallacy that can and has justified discriminatory treatment in the past, it's a highly inaccurate way to treat any threat.
The media are the terrorists. I'm not even joking tbh.
Ovek
7Member7
I should say you shouldn't blame the Airline, they are duty bound to report and investigate any passenger report of concern. Considering authorities tell everyone to be ever vigilant you also can't really blame the passengers that reported them.
Of course it's awful and sad but unfortunately it's now the world we live in.
Of course it's awful and sad but unfortunately it's now the world we live in.
Yeah to me the onus here is really on whoever decides to report something like this. Once the allegation has been made then it's hard to really blame everyone else for having to treat it seriously. Maybe airplane staff could have more authority to override the passenger when it's clearly ridiculous like this but who really wants to make that call in the off chance something does happen?
We need much better education because these incidents are becoming more common and it doesnt help anyone. Everyone on board the flight has been screened for weapons etc, British security is, apparently, tight so if there's any failings there then blame the government for cheaping out. Make it clear to people that other people speaking Arabic, or reading something in Arabic, is not a fucking crime! We do have a state of fear though. The terror threat guage is always on the far red of the spectrum and they do tell people to be safe rather than sorry but there must be a line. This was clearly an ignorant fucking passenger, or maybe a mentally imbalanced paranoid individual or something, and we just can't have blatant racism based on nothing more than colour skin or language causing distress for people like this.
If that's how it is from now on then the terrorists have won and we've handed those in power, and the bigots, the keys to the kingdom as we have a nation built entirely on fear at the whim of the powerful and the stupid.
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