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[not psycho]

I just call it logic and common sense when one gauge consistently gives out higher values than the other, both during halftime and the measurements done by Exponent.

That doesn't work because we don't have a shred of recorded evidence from anyone, not the teams, not the officials. No measurements, no identification of the gauge the official used at which time. We have the official's memory, which agrees with the Patriots. To refute the official, all we have is a general statement about 12.5 and 13. The halftime measurements themselves are evidence against the Colts balls being 13 pre-game. And even if the Colts were around 13 or 13.1 average pre-game, they only measured 4 balls at halftime.

Also, even a single gauge has its own variance. We were never talking about exact numbers. The Colts measured 11.45, 11.35, 11.75 on 3 repeated tests of the intercepted ball (despite testing it at all being a violation of NFL rules).

If I was the commissioner I would have given the Colts a small fine for breaking NFL rules and then fixed the testing procedure. The case against the Patriots, regardless of if you think they cheated, should have been thrown out immediately, based on the Colts rule breaking and the faulty procedure.

We know they measured the Pats balls and then inflated them before they measured the Colts balls. It's entirely possible they accidentally switched the gauges during that whole process and given that none of the officials mentions they did on purpose, it's the most likely scenario.

As the report says, the 12.95 psi value reading is an anomaly and likely the result of a human error

So while running out of time they were only able to measure 4 of the Colts balls, and by coincidence they switched gauges at least once, and misread 1 of the 4 results. Yet we are to assume they were perfectly careful about not using one gauge more than the other, and not misreading any other results.

Getting a reading of 12.95 for a ball which supposedly started at 13 was just bad luck, probably misread a 6 for a 9. Maybe they had it upside down. Don't read anything into it. Like... maybe it didn't start at 13.

Still, they didn't decrease the temperature to 67°F randomly to somehow "make the Colts balls fit"

Yes they did, and they are very clear about it. This is the strongest piece of evidence that they had a preconceived notion:

However, the pre-game temperature was set at 67°F because this was the only temperature that allowed the Colts balls to subsequently reach their average pressure during the simulated Locker Room Period. Any pre-game temperature that was higher than 67°F resulted in the Colts balls reaching the Game Day halftime average pressure later than 13.5 minutes into the Locker Room Period.

The pre-game temperature was set at 67 because that was the temperature that allowed the Colts balls to fit. They explicitly set up their test to force the Colts balls to fit.

Put it at 71 and the Patriots balls fit but the Colts balls are too high. And again, there are tons of explanations for why the Colts balls would be too high. A pre-game gauge switch. Pre-game pressures above 13. Using the wrong gauge at halftime. Misreading results at halftime. These possibilities are supported by the known gauge switch at halftime and the 12.95 reading.

For that matter, did they eliminate the 12.95 reading when deciding to lower the temperature? I'm not going to read it all again, but I don't remember them saying that. Only in the later analysis do they mention getting rid of it. So they might have said "temperature must have only been 67 to get that 12.95, let's lower it to force it to fit." And yet you are arguing that the 12.95 was an erroneous measurement.

 

[Tragicomedy]

Is Massachusetts an at will employment state? Besides, they aren't fired. they are indefinitely suspended.

Looks like it is!

Although it seems almost impossible to believe, employers in Massachusetts, or in any other employee-at-will state, can fire any employee at any time for any reason — or even for no reason at all. An employer can terminate any employee, with or without notice.

What is the practical difference between being fired and indefinitely suspended? I know what the terms mean, but there's really no difference from the employee's perspective. You aren't working. You aren't getting paid. The Pats aren't going to bring those dudes back on the payroll.

The suspension is probably worse, since it might be harder to collect unemployment compensation. I'm not legal GAF, so I could very well be wrong.

 

[Quotient]

The NFL didn't do themselves any favors by choosing Paul Weiss and Exponent, the former they have hired to represent them in the concussion battle against the players and the chief lawyer in that case for the NFL is an investigator on the Well's report, and the latter has been known to provide studies that support it's client agenda.

Regardless on which side of the fence you sit (or if you are on the fence), you have to admit the NFL could have done a better job in ensuring true impartiality. Due to the history and relationship of the 2 firms, their is always going to be question marks over the report regardless if you love or hate the patriots.

 

[DeaconKnowledge]

If the Pats are smart, the 2 employees' silence is bought. If not, this case is going to get a lot more interesting.

 

[Roberto Duran]

Of course the NFL didn't suspend those team employees. The team did. Everyone knew that already.

And if I'm one of those two employees, I'm suing the living shit out of the Patriots for wrongful termination. Brady ordered them to prepare the balls to illegal specifications, and I'm not about to play the fall guy for that crap.

What will probably happen (or has already happened) is that Kraft will make sure both employees are well compensated for their silence.

Why is Troy Vincent the only one who can approve their reinstatement?

 

[not psycho]

Here is a possible explanation for the Colts halftime measurements:

12.7, 12.35
12.75, 12.30
12.50, 12.95
12.55, 12.15

Although the 2nd official was consistently .35-.45 below the 1st, there was one anomaly ball.

Isn't it likely that the 12.95 was really 12.05 or even 11.95, and they misread it? There doesn't seem to be any explanation for a 12.95 otherwise (except the Colts balls being well above 13 to start the game).

 

[Quotient]

Here is a possible explanation for the Colts halftime measurements:

12.7, 12.35
12.75, 12.30
12.50, 12.95
12.55, 12.15

Although the 2nd official was consistently .35-.45 below the 1st, there was one anomaly ball.

Isn't it likely that the 12.95 was really 12.05 or even 11.95, and they misread it? There doesn't seem to be any explanation for a 12.95 otherwise (except the Colts balls being well above 13 to start the game).

The speculation is that they swapped gauges when inspecting the 3rd ball.

 

[Mudcrab]

NFL.com put an asterisk next to Brady's name in this list of top QBs

 

[Unknown Soldier]

NFL.com put an asterisk next to Brady's name in this list of top QBs

See this? This is the only real justice. Brady will have * next to his name until the end of NFL records. This is as it should be.

 

[Megalosaro]

NFL.com put an asterisk next to Brady's name in this list of top QBs

Fuck that.

 

[entremet]

NFL.com put an asterisk next to Brady's name in this list of top QBs

Well a writer did that. It's not NFL.com per se.

 

[MetalFearSolid]

NFL.com put an asterisk next to Brady's name in this list of top QBs

What a joke, Peyton Manning ranked 10th is laughable.

 

[MechDX]

NFL.com put an asterisk next to Brady's name in this list of top QBs

 

[The Albatross]

Bucky Brooks, lookin' to drive traffic over Damesheck and Elliot Harrison. Some gotta ask Chris Wesseling what he thinks.

 

[cdyhybrid]

:jnc

 

[Quotient]

Bucky Brooks, lookin' to drive traffic over Damesheck and Elliot Harrison. Some gotta ask Chris Wesseling what he thinks.

That has been a big part of deflategate. There is not much intelligent conversation being had, instead each member of the media is doing their best to be more over the top than the next guy, regardless if they are pro-pats or anti-pats. I would be surprised if 10% of the media actually read through the report (the same can be said about fans on either side of the fence).

 

[Spinluck]

That has been a big part of deflategate. There is not much intelligent conversation being had, instead each member of the media is doing their best to be more over the top than the next guy, regardless if they are pro-pats or anti-pats. I would be surprised if 10% of the media actually read through the report (the same can be said about fans on either side of the fence).

I am pretty sure everyone read the report.

If not, then here is the short condensed report that has the same exact verdict based on plenty of evidence for people who do not have the time to read it:

Pats cheated.

For those just now tuning please thank me later for saving you the time and countless internet debate/arguments with the filthy Pats faithful.

 

[Quotient]

I am pretty sure everyone read the report.

If not, then here is the short condensed report that has the same exact verdict based on plenty of evidence for people who do not have the time to read it:

Pats cheated.

For those just now tuning please thank me later for saving you the time and countless internet debate/arguments with the filthy Pats faithful.

Have you read the report including the appendix?

 

[boiled goose]

NFL.com put an asterisk next to Brady's name in this list of top QBs

Wow. The hatred and jealousy are real. Patriots haters never cease to surprise me.

 

[bob_arctor]

See this? This is the only real justice. Brady will have * next to his name until the end of NFL records. This is as it should be.

 

[jakncoke]

wow this thread is still going how long will the casual no nothing nfl fans of the pats fan base keep it going, hint: shut your mouth your team is a cheating whore was busted and was punished light ffs

 

[The Albatross]

wow this thread is still going how long will the casual no nothing nfl fans of the pats fan base keep it going, hint: shut your mouth your team is a cheating whore was busted and was punished light ffs

Exhibit A, ladies and gentlemen.

 

[Spinluck]

wow this thread is still going how long will the casual no nothing nfl fans of the pats fan base keep it going, hint: shut your mouth your team is a cheating whore was busted and was punished light ffs

:jnc

 

[Cybit]

Exhibit A, ladies and gentlemen.

Do you really want to go there with "terrible posts by other teams fans?" Because there's enough material in this thread to deflate that argument.

 

[LQX]

Bill Belichick suspected Tom Brady of being a lying cheat.

New Patriots Patriots head coach Bill Belichick "never believed" Tom Brady's explanation regarding the "Deflategate" scandal, according to a Boston Herald reporter.

http://www.oregonlive.com/nfl/index.ssf/2015/05/new_england_patriots_coach_bil.html


Also,

Jim Kelly: There is no doubt Tom Brady cheated

“Oh, there’s no doubt,” Kelly said. “There’s no way that an equipment manager in the National Football League is going to do something to the football without the greatest quarterback ever to play knowing … ”

http://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nfl/jim-kelly-there-is-no-doubt-tom-brady-cheated/ar-BBk6GyF


Only Gisele should believe Tom at this point.

 

[MacAttack]

Bill Belichick suspected Tom Brady of being a lying cheat.



http://www.oregonlive.com/nfl/index.ssf/2015/05/new_england_patriots_coach_bil.html


Also,

Jim Kelly: There is no doubt Tom Brady cheated



http://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nfl/jim-kelly-there-is-no-doubt-tom-brady-cheated/ar-BBk6GyF


Only Gisele should believe Tom at this point.

Looks like some reliable sources there:

Ron Borges (a notorious Belichik hater) pulling some wild assumptions from nowhere (who are the sources?) in a report from an Oregonian paper that starts out the article stating Belichik is the "new" coach of the patriots.

Oh yeah and dont forget to ask Jim Kelly or some other unbiased division rival like Revis.

That kind of reporting makes the Wells report seem unbiased.

 

[chuckddd]

Only Gisele should believe Tom at this point.

There sure are a lot of dudes named Gisele in here.

 

[Cipherr]

NFL.com put an asterisk next to Brady's name in this list of top QBs

Rekt. Lol. They need to hand more of them out to all other cheaters, but yeah. I have no problem with that. Fuck cheating and fuck cheaters.

 

[cdyhybrid]

Rekt. Lol. They need to hand more of them out to all other cheaters, but yeah. I have no problem with that. Fuck cheating and fuck cheaters.

So essentially:

 

[Quotient]

Apparently the American Enterprise Institute had a close look at the Wells Report and came away with:

Our study, written with our colleague Joseph Sullivan, examines the evidence and methodology of the Wells report and concludes that it is deeply flawed. (We have no financial stake in the outcome of Deflategate.)

Here is the link to the report: http://www.aei.org/publication/on-wells-report/
NY Times summary: http://www.nytimes.com/2015/06/14/opinion/deflating-deflategate.html

I haven't read the report, only the NYT article.

 

[Dreams-Visions]

Apparently the American Enterprise Institute had a close look at the Wells Report and came away with:



Here is the link to the report: http://www.aei.org/publication/on-wells-report/
NY Times summary: http://www.nytimes.com/2015/06/14/opinion/deflating-deflategate.html

I haven't read the report, only the NYT article.

Very strong analysis. This is why Brady will continue to fight. There were flaws in the methodology big enough to drive a Cadillac through.

 

[CassidyIzABeast]

Free Brady

 

[Dishwalla]

Free Brady

oh he'll be freed.

.... in the pats fifth game of the season.

 

[bone_and_sinew]

Free Brady

Shut up you fool this is the best chance we'll (Fins) have at winning the division since the time he tore his ACL.

 

[chuckddd]

Very strong analysis. This is why Brady will continue to fight. There were flaws in the methodology big enough to drive a Cadillac through.

As long as you ignore damning evidence, sure the report looks weak.

 

[Dreams-Visions]

As long as you ignore damning evidence, sure the report looks weak.

The reality is their testing methodology will get Tom off if this goes to court. Their ball pressure testing regimen on the night in question is embarrassingly flawed as has been discussed in this report on the report. If they can't prove beyond doubt that the balls really were significantly below what was expected, how can they hope this decision would stand in court? It's the first pillar of the argument and they fucked that up royally.

 

[elrechazado]

The reality is their testing methodology will get Tom off if this goes to court. Their ball pressure testing regimen on the night in question is embarrassingly flawed as has been discussed in this report on the report. If they can't prove beyond doubt that the balls really were significantly below what was expected, how can they hope this decision would stand in court? It's the first pillar of the argument and they fucked that up royally.

this isn't a criminal charge where creating reasonable doubt can result in not guilty verdicts. Any court action would be around the union rules and collective bargaining agreement. And guess what - the players didn't implement a scientific standard of proof for goodell to do anything he wants.

Thus your conclusion is meaningless.

 

[Dreams-Visions]

this isn't a criminal charge where creating reasonable doubt can result in not guilty verdicts. Any court action would be around the union rules and collective bargaining agreement. And guess what - the players didn't implement a scientific standard of proof for goodell to do anything he wants.

Thus your conclusion is meaningless.

Then you mean to say that *their* conclusion (this supplemental report) is meaningless. And that's too bad if so. There is certainly an argument to be made here that calls into serious doubt the integrity of the core testing done, undermining the entire premise of the story itself. We'll see soon enough how it plays out.

 

[sangreal]

The reality is their testing methodology will get Tom off if this goes to court. Their ball pressure testing regimen on the night in question is embarrassingly flawed as has been discussed in this report on the report. If they can't prove beyond doubt that the balls really were significantly below what was expected, how can they hope this decision would stand in court? It's the first pillar of the argument and they fucked that up royally.

They only need to prove that it is more likely than not. That is the standard agreed to in the CBA and the one used in most civil actions anyway

 

[KHarvey16]

They only need to prove that it is more likely than not. That is the standard agreed to in the CBA and the one used in most civil actions anyway

It's pretty impossible to read the flaws in the report and conclude a "more likely than not" standard has been satisfied.

 

[sangreal]

It's pretty impossible to read the flaws in the report and conclude a "more likely than not" standard has been satisfied.

I don't consider myself qualified to make that determination. My only point was that the poster was incorrect about having to prove the case beyond a "reasonable doubt" in court

 

[DragonSworne]

NFL.com put an asterisk next to Brady's name in this list of top QBs

Any list that puts Eli in the top 10 is a joke list to begin with.

 

[Roberto Duran]

Apparently the American Enterprise Institute had a close look at the Wells Report and came away with:



Here is the link to the report: http://www.aei.org/publication/on-wells-report/
NY Times summary: http://www.nytimes.com/2015/06/14/opinion/deflating-deflategate.html

I haven't read the report, only the NYT article.

The only thing I have to say is that their evidence for the Saints was probably not used to get the suspensions for the Saints players thrown out. The NFL probably gives no fucks that their investigations are complete bullshit.

 

[Tawpgun]

lol.

If you're gonna put asterisks next to names now I only ask it be universal.

We gon see a lot of NFL asterisks.

 

[spyder_ur]

Appeal date is today, starting about now I believe.

I would love to be a fly on the wall during this.

 

[chadskin]

NYDNSports: Man holding a "Free Brady" sign told his boss he needed today off for a family issue. "(Brady's) always in my heart." http://t.co/5mjYjuZ1lv

.

 

[LyleLanley]

.

Brady is family.

 

[Stinkles]

.

Pats fans can't even go to work without cheating. Smh

 

[Stet]

.

The boss replied by putting an asterisk next to his employment status.

 

[ElectricBlanketFire]

Appeal date is today, starting about now I believe.

I would love to be a fly on the wall during this.

"Look Tom, I really screwed up the Ray Rice and Peterson situations. I have to look good here. So, as we discussed previously, your 4 game suspension, which, again, was announced to make me look tough, will be reduced to two games. Everything else is detailed in this briefcase I have handcuffed to my wrist."

Pats fans can't even go to work without cheating. Smh

Bingo.