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[Famassu]

Really possible. Nomura works on lots of games at once, but for this specific instance you think it's not possible?

It's not possible because the KH Team, which Versus XIII's development team is mostly made of, was working on KHII until early 2006 (and even after that on KHII Final Mix). Nomura, as a director/scenario writer/character designer/whatever can be a part of multiple projects, but the rest of the dozens & dozens & dozens of workers on the game cannot.

If it took two to three years to do those character designs/music/logo/art direction/CG trailer, then that's what it took. It's still a vital part of the game's development.

It didn't. They made all of that in the few months after they had shipped Kingdom Hearts II in March 2006 and before E3 2006.

 

[StuBurns]

It's not possible because the KH Team, which Versus XIII's development team is mostly made of, was working on KHII until early 2006 (and even after that on KHII Final Mix). Nomura, as a director/scenario writer/character designer/whatever can be a part of multiple projects, but the rest of the dozens & dozens & dozens of workers on the game cannot.

I don't care how you semantically argue it. The project began in 2003. If that was all but a single dude working on it, that's what it was.

 

[Jarmel]

I don't care how you semantically argue it. The project began in 2003. If that was all but a single dude working on it, that's what it was.

I'm kinda with this line of thought. If any work whatsoever is done on a project, then that starts the development clock.

 

[Famassu]

I don't care how you semantically argue it. The project began in 2003. If that was all but a single dude working on it, that's what it was.

You probably didn't catch my edit... Anyways, no, this isn't true either. Nomura started working on the concept after the March 2006 release of Kingdom Hearts II. The E3 2006 trailer was made in the few months between March 2006 & E3 in June 2006.

 

[StuBurns]

You probably didn't catch my edit... Anyways, no, this isn't true either. Nomura started working on the concept after the March 2006 release of Kingdom Hearts II. The E3 2006 trailer was made in the few months between March 2006 & E3 in June 2006.

No, he didn't. He started in 2003, as he's said in interviews, google it.

 

[SolidSnakex]

This is from November 2006

Nomura, director and character designer for Versus, discussed the difficulties of working with the new hardware. "The hurdles are greater than they were in the move from the PS1 to the PS2," said Nomura. To deal with the transition, Square Enix has all its programmers gather together to work under FFXIII producer Yoshinori Kitase on the White Engine that will power Square Enix's next generation titles. "We're probably at the point where we could make a PS3 title. However, we're currently researching how to fully tap the specs."

It seems as though we'll have to wait a bit to see anything real time from Versus. "Things like real time footage and specifics on areas like the battle system will come once the White Engine is complete," explained Nomura. "We're currently working hard on the development of [the White Engine], and once it's done, we'll have to research what can be done with it. Of course, we do have an idea of what we'd like to do."

http://ps3.ign.com/articles/754/754310p1.html

 

[StuBurns]

If the interview section of FFXIII.net wasn't dead I could find the specific interview where they talk about it, this one suggests it, but it's not as clear as the other one:

EGM: Could you tell us a little about the history of the Fabula Nova Crystallis project?
Shinji Hashimoto: Right when we were about to finish Final Fantasy X-2 and Kingdom Hearts, the Fantasy XII project was already well underway, so we began to think about the next Final Fantasy project. We had learned many lessons from the Compilation of Final Fantasy VII project, and we really wanted to build upon this idea...this was the genesis of the Fabula Nova Crystalis concept.

Yoshinori Kitase: Initially, we were thinking about making FFXIII on PS2 and FFVersusXIII on a next-gen platform. But we altered that plan and decided to make both titles on PlayStation 3. For the Compilation of Final Fantasy VII, the binding concept was the original game, FFVII. Everything had to relate back to that. Fabula Nova Crystallis is slightly different because there is no central title upon which everything is based, but there is a central theme: the tale of new crystals. This mythology is an element that exists in all facets of the project. Now we have FFXIII, Versus XIII, and Agito XIII ... there may be other projects further down the line. The common element will be the tale of the new mythology. This binding element is simply a source of inspiration, it's more about freedom, and we want the directors to be freely inspired by the mythology and make the games the way they choose.

EDIT: I've got FFXIII.net to work, I'll post if I find it.

 

[duckroll]

I don't know how else you can really measure a game's development. I see that argument a lot, and it's fair, but since conception is the only really logical way to gauge it to me.

If it took two to three years to do those character designs/music/logo/art direction/CG trailer, then that's what it took. It's still a vital part of the game's development.

But it did not take 2-3 years to do those character designers/music/logo/art direction/CG trailer.

Here's a scenario:

15 Aug 2003, 10:42 am, Tokyo: Nomura is having a coffee break, and he starts doodling a face. He gets this idea that Romeo and Juliet would make a good concept for a FF game.

28 Aug 2003, 14:25 pm, Tokyo: Nomura has completed a draft design of Noctis. He is planning a story in his head while overseeing the development of KH2. He sends his friend Nojima an email which says "I have a good idea, let's work together again."

5 May 2005, 9:35 am, Toyko: Nomura hasn't done much on the concept he had ages ago, but he suddenly had inspiration to start on it again with KH2 being on track. He decides to spend the next month or two writing up a full story outline and polishing up the main character's design again before presenting it to his bosses.

10 Sep 2005, 13:12 pm, Tokyo: Nomura is told that the idea is approved, and they should put together something for presentation soon. He arranges for Visualworks to put together a short concept trailer showing off the look of the main character.

1 Mar 2006, 16:05 pm, Tokyo: The concept trailer is done. Nomura is happy with it.

E3 2006: S-E shows off the various FFXIII projects they have greenlighted, including the Versus trailer which has been sitting around for a few months.



So in that scenario, how long has Versus been in development as of E3 2006? 1 month? 3 years? 6 months? 0 seconds? I'll say 0 seconds.

 

[StuBurns]

But it did not take 2-3 years to do those character designers/music/logo/art direction/CG trailer.

Here's a scenario:

15 Aug 2003, 10:42 am, Tokyo: Nomura is having a coffee break, and he starts doodling a face. He gets this idea that Romeo and Juliet would make a good concept for a FF game...

So in that scenario, how long has Versus been in development as of E3 2006? 1 month? 3 years? 6 months? 0 seconds? I'll say 0 seconds.

If he started designing Noctis on 15/08/03, and he's revealed 06/06, it took two years ten months to me.

EDIT: What the fuck is up with this website?
http://webcache.googleusercontent.c...006&cd=2&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=uk&client=firefox-a

I want those interviews.

 

[duckroll]

If he started designing Noctis on 15/08/03, and he's revealed 06/06, it took two years ten months to me.

That doesn't seem like a meaningful way to determine development time at all. If I get an idea for a designing a game today, and I start working on a design document, let's say I finish it in a month, and then I lose interest or I have other commitments. 5 years later I pick that up and refine it, but then working work commitments prevent me from furthering the idea once again. 20 years later, I finally find the time to put together a team and finish the game and release it through a digital distribution platform. Did that game take 25 years to develop? Really?

 

[Momo]

If he started designing Noctis on 15/08/03, and he's revealed 06/06, it took two years ten months to me.

EDIT: What the fuck is up with this website?
http://webcache.googleusercontent.c...006&cd=2&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=uk&client=firefox-a

I want those interviews.

I'd say you can argue it's "two years in the making", not really development time in earnest though

 

[MrDenny]

That doesn't seem like a meaningful way to determine development time at all. If I get an idea for a designing a game today, and I start working on a design document, let's say I finish it in a month, and then I lose interest or I have other commitments. 5 years later I pick that up and refine it, but then working work commitments prevent me from furthering the idea once again. 20 years later, I finally find the time to put together a team and finish the game and release it through a digital distribution platform. Did that game take 25 years to develop? Really?

By his logic, the avatar film had 17 years of development time haha.

 

[StuBurns]

That doesn't seem like a meaningful way to determine development time at all. If I get an idea for a designing a game today, and I start working on a design document, let's say I finish it in a month, and then I lose interest or I have other commitments. 5 years later I pick that up and refine it, but then working work commitments prevent me from furthering the idea once again. 20 years later, I finally find the time to put together a team and finish the game and release it through a digital distribution platform. Did that game take 25 years to develop? Really?

I think that would be different because you aren't an accomplished game designer being asked to make a video game in the FNC series.

If the exact scenario you describe above happened, without the FNC concept, and without Nomura having just made KH, I'd say it should start when serious effort went into a design doc I guess.

My issue is more that I can't see when else you should say it starts, when are you suggesting?

 

[duckroll]

My issue is more that I can't see when else you should say it starts, when are you suggesting?

When the game is actually in production, and there is a complete core team of staff across all disciplines actually working daily on developing the idea into an actual product. Everything before that is pre-production, and is not very meaningful in regards to calculating the scale of effort put into the development of a game.

 

[Chev]

Why? Because ignorant people don't even try to understand how its development has advanced and how it hasn't been in development for 5 years?

Until this summer we didn't even know the whole "lol we had a trailer but we never worked on an actual game until years after that" thing. S-E have been the ones creating that confusion all by themselves, not ignorant people.

 

[SolidSnakex]

Until this summer we didn't even know the whole "lol we had a trailer but we never worked on an actual game until years after that" thing. S-E have been the ones creating that confusion all by themselves, not ignorant people.

We actually knew about how the development was going before this year. But Square is definitely the problem here. They announced it way too early. Same for Agito/Type-0. They should've just announced FFXIII and left it at that.

 

[mocolostrocolos]

Nomura says that he recently did a walkthrough of the full world map. He also did a check on the game's dungeons and the side paths in the game's towns. He was impressed with how expansive everything is.

When Square Enix announced the development of its "Luminous" next generation engine, some very cruel people joked that maybe Versus would be updated to use it. Actually, the game does use the lightning technology from Luminous, Nomura reveals. However, the game also uses a game specific engine that's specialized for action.

With Versus, Nomura promises a Final Fantasy like you've never seen before

Nomura is troller than ever.

 

[Ellis Kim]

Nomura is troller than ever.

Your avatar is so adorable, lol.

Where is it from, or did you make it? Pink hair Links looks like Prince Gumball... or genderswap Lightning.

 

[Kyoufu]

Easily my most anticipated game. I know the wait will be worth it.

 

[mocolostrocolos]

Your avatar is so adorable, lol.

Where is it from, or did you make it? Pink hair Links looks like Prince Gumball... or genderswap Lightning.

Got it from link's pink hair thread.

 

[PumpkinPie]

This is the PSP game? They change the names so often I've lost track.

 

[duckroll]

This is the PSP game? They change the names so often I've lost track.

No, this is the vaporware game.

 

[ULTROS!]

This is the PSP game? They change the names so often I've lost track.

Agito XIII = Type-0 which is getting released next month.

 

[Dunan]

I'd like to see numbering removed in favor of secondary titles or even completely different titles brought together by similar logos, maybe using the same FF font that they've always used.

Barring that, FFvsXIII should become FFXV. Ditch the FNC mythology or keep it to a minimum. I've never liked the fundamentally pessimistic atmosphere -- you get chosen by the fal'Cie, and you either die doing what they order you to do, or you get crystallized and sleep for many years, leaving your world behind in any case.

Also:

Yoshinori Kitase: ... Fabula Nova Crystallis is slightly different because there is no central title upon which everything is based, but there is a central theme: the tale of new crystals.

Unless my Latin knowledge is betraying me, it's the tale that's new, not the crystal. Does Kitase misunderstand what he's supposed to be working on, or is an EGM mistranslation?

 

[duckroll]

Unless my Latin knowledge is betraying me, it's the tale that's new, not the crystal. Does Kitase misunderstand what he's supposed to be working on, or is an EGM mistranslation?

Mistranslation. Part of the theme is that each game is in their own way about the characters breaking free and crafting a new tale (or future) to define their world by.

 

[Dunan]

Mistranslation. Part of the theme is that each game is in their own way about the characters breaking free and crafting a new tale (or future) to define their world by.

Good to hear. I couldn't see Kitase getting something like that wrong. The way you've defined the theme, it looks like something with potential for some really great stories. I just hope the teenage-fan-oriented Kitase and Toriyama can produce them.

 

[duckroll]

Good to hear. I couldn't see Kitase getting something like that wrong. The way you've defined the theme, it looks like something with potential for some really great stories. I just hope the teenage-fan-oriented Kitase and Toriyama can produce them.

Well, Toriyama is only responsible for FFXIII (and FFXIII-2 by extension). The way it has always been presented is that they had this overall mythological theme (similar to how many JRPGs use Christianity as a base, but this time they made up their own legends, pre-history, and deities), and each director is responsible for using that mythology and influencing an original world with it, to create an original game.

FFXIII is an exploration of the mythological theme in a very advanced scifi world.

VersusXIII is an exploration of the mythological theme in a modern world setting, with locations inspired by real world cities and architecture/fashion/technology/etc.

Type-0 is an exploration of the mythological theme in a more historical sort of setting, in an era inspired by Romance of the 3 Kingdoms.

Three completely different worlds, with vastly different levels of technology, and different types of society. All tied together by one common mythology. I think it's a really interesting idea, but it's a pity that development problems have caused the games to be delayed so much that they won't have the same impact as they would have had if they came out in a timely manner after being announced originally.

 

[StuBurns]

Speaking of the modern world in Versus, duckroll, didn't you once link GAF to a comparison site with screens from trailers versus real world locations? Do you have it? I was looking a couple of weeks ago and couldn't find it.

 

[CoffeeExpress]

To those who are saying it should be called XV, I get why.. but does it really make sense as Versus is set and is part of XIII's world?

Now I'm a little confused, I played a little of 13 and am wondering if cocoon and pulse are in this ? or is it a different planet or something?

 

[StuBurns]

To those who are saying it should be called XV, I get why.. but does it really make sense as Versus is set and is part of XIII's world?

Now I'm a little confused, I played a little of 13 and am wondering if cocoon and pulse are in this ? or is it a different planet or something?

They aren't in the same world.

And there was a game called Final Fantasy Agito XIII for PSP (and cellphones before that) that was renamed Final Fantasy Type-0.

 

[CoffeeExpress]

They aren't in the same world.

And there was a game called Final Fantasy Agito XIII for PSP (and cellphones before that) that was renamed Final Fantasy Type-0.

"Final Fantasy Versus XIII is, according to its developers, a wholly independent story unfolding with different characters and a different visual design. Although it is set within the same Final Fantasy XIII universe, it is unrelated to any other entry within the series and is thus neither a sequel nor a prequel to any other entries in the Fabula Nova Crystallis: Final Fantasy series." on its wiki page.

 

[StuBurns]

It's wrong. Well, depending on your understanding of 'universe'. The point is, it's no more related to FFXIII than FFAgitoXIII was, and it got a name change.

The Versus XIII name is a marketing nightmare, XV is a marketing dream.

 

[pottuvoi]

Luminous lighting!

I really hope for something like a recent research from Tri-Ace.
http://research.tri-ace.com/

 

[Ellis Kim]

It's wrong. Well, depending on your understanding of 'universe'. The point is, it's no more related to FFXIII than FFAgitoXIII was, and it got a name change.

The Versus XIII name is a marketing nightmare, XV is a marketing dream.

Final Fantasy XVersus? :x :S

People are gonna go "But what about 14?" and find out about the MMO and say "Well, that's stupid."

It'll be FFXI's stigma all over again, hooray.

 

[Urban Scholar]

Ok so an early 2013 or a late 2012 release? Interesting

 

[Chev]

It's wrong. Well, depending on your understanding of 'universe'. The point is, it's no more related to FFXIII than FFAgitoXIII was, and it got a name change.

The Versus XIII name is a marketing nightmare, XV is a marketing dream.

There's a difference because unlike type-0 the suggestion is to switch to a mainline number, not cutting the spinoff from the XIII family. And it's far from a marketing dream because Versus is an action-RPG, not a RPG. For all the real-time elements introduced the mainline FF games, even XIII, have always appealed to an audience that won't necessarily accept to play an action game.

 

[StuBurns]

There's a difference because unlike type-0 the suggestion is to switch to a mainline number, not cutting the spinoff from the XIII family. And it's far from a marketing dream because Versus is an action-RPG, not a RPG. For all the real-time elements introduced the mainline FF games, even XIII, have always appealed to an audience that won't necessarily accept to play an action game.

The Final Fantasy brand is in shreds, SE have no idea why people even liked the series, as displayed by the pretty corridor simulator they shipped last time and 14 being a joke, I don't think it's time to play it safe.

Any concern SE had about the integrity of the mainline series being compromised by Versus is redundant.

The only thing the Versus name is going to do is hurt sales on what could easily be the most expensive game they've ever shipped.

 

[Dunan]

The Final Fantasy brand is in shreds, SE have no idea why people even liked the series, as displayed by the pretty corridor simulator they shipped last time and 14 being a joke, I don't think it's time to play it safe.

Any concern SE had about the integrity of the mainline series being compromised by Versus is redundant.

The only thing the Versus name is going to do is hurt sales on what could easily be the most expensive game they've ever shipped.

I agree; had FFXII and its unconventional battle system not existed, I'd be wary about assigning the number XV to Versus, but they've already showed that they can mix things up on the battle-mechanics front and not ruin the series. Just make sure there are enough RPG elements, downplay the FNC stuff, and make this into the next mainline entry.

 

[Chev]

The Final Fantasy brand is in shreds, SE have no idea why people even liked the series, as displayed by the pretty corridor simulator they shipped last time and 14 being a joke, I don't think it's time to play it safe.

The pretty corridor simulator's the best selling PS3 RPG, and S-E's best selling japan-developed HD console game, so of course they're gonna play it safe.

Dunan> FFXII removed the player even further from direct action, so it's illustrative of the inverse trend, not getting closer to action games. Plus it's internally considered as an project management disaster so it's doubtful they're gonna keep any lesson from it. Certainly so far they don't seem to have.

 

[StuBurns]

The pretty corridor simulator's the best selling PS3 RPG, and S-E's best selling japan-developed HD console game, so of course they're gonna play it safe.

How's the PS3 version of FF14 going?

Considering the biggest thing going in Japan right now is an Action RPG loot game on PSP, and the biggest thing in the West is an action shooter with RPG MP progression, I seriously doubt SE are concerned about a one off FF with KH combat.

 

[Chev]

How's the PS3 version of FF14 going?

They'll ignore everything about FF14 because it's a MMO (so a different target audience than their single player games), much like how FF11 pretty much existed in its own island independant of everything going on around it, and a good chunk of the work was outsourced, so they're gonna blame it on whichever chinese company used to be working on it (and with good reason, people disliked FF14 because it was bland and boring, not because it was a RPG).

 

[StuBurns]

If you accept 11/14 are for a different target audience, then you must also accept SE are perfectly happy to make a mainline Final Fantasy for different audience, so I don't see your point at all.

 

[duckroll]

Speaking of the modern world in Versus, duckroll, didn't you once link GAF to a comparison site with screens from trailers versus real world locations? Do you have it? I was looking a couple of weeks ago and couldn't find it.

I don't remember what I specifically posted the last time, but what they've showed so far is that the first city is heavily modeled after Tokyo (Shinjuku in particular), while another location they showed some time back is modeled after Venice.

 

[Urban Scholar]

HD towns? Pfft they're giving us well known vistas!

 

[Kyoufu]

Nomura said you can ride airships right? My mind is blown when I imagine riding an airship over Shinjuku.

 

[StuBurns]

Thanks ducky.

I can't wait to see what else they tackle. I think the 'real' looking places is a big reason why FFVII was as warmly received as it was.

 

[BlueWord]

There was also a USA-styled filling station in one of the older screens. Hopefully they tackle NYC.

 

[StuBurns]

Forgot about that. Just googled those mag scans, the 'vista' shot is still amazing.

'West Insomnia', is a great name for a district. Is there anywhere in Tokyo known as insomnia?

 

[Dunan]

Forgot about that. Just googled those mag scans, the 'vista' shot is still amazing.

'West Insomnia', is a great name for a district. Is there anywhere in Tokyo known as insomnia?

Speaking as a longtime Tokyo resident, there isn't; place names generally aren't like that. (A close one, maybe, would be the lake in Ueno called 'Shinobazu', which means 'unendurable'; no idea how it got that name.)

@Chev - I felt that FFXII got us closer to action games because not only were the battles seamless, but you actually controlled your movements on the field.

SE has painted themselves into a corner a bit with their latest numbered entry (XIV) being a total flop and their offshoot sub-numbered entry (XIII-2) looking like a superior game to both its predecessor and the numbered entry after it.

Maybe they could give Versus its own name, make that the main title, and put "Final Fantasy XV" after it, Dissidia-style.

 

[BLagiver]

Seriously. Might as well cut to the chase. It's a full fledged FF production of massive scale.

Yep and it's an actual interesting ff unlike the ff 13 and 13-2. This will be bigger then ff 12!!