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[Steaks]

I just wanna post here to see the reactions of the people who never played TvC and suddenly downplay that game for the controls.

It kinda reflects how many people never played other fighting games.

I played TvC for a month, it's a fun game to do combos in but the player interaction is quite boring and uninteresting.

 

[Boss Doggie]

Wut?

That's because of the poor Wii online connection... but are you talking about something else? The combos flow well, the hits connect properly. The only complaint I can give to it is the lax direction input (which even SFIV has).

 

[Steaks]

Wut?

That's because of the poor Wii online connection... but are you talking about something else? The combos flow well, the hits connect properly. The only complaint I can give to it is the lax direction input (which even SFIV has).

I never played TvC online, I played it with Marvel players (Liston/Mynus/Josh Wakefield and some other guys) when it first came out in Japan and we all got sick of the game really fast.

 

[Hot Coldman]

So I saw the scans... we have to wait to see what Deadpool and Dante look like in-game then?

 

[Boss Doggie]

Treat it as a different game. That's generally the problem with people treating TvC as a Marvel game. Hell, I think treating it as a Melty Blood with assists/faster GG is even a feasible approach than Marvel.

 

[jetsetfluken]

X and Zero please. So many possibilities and it seems that X series is always overshadowed by hype about the classic series or Legends.
And once they do that, MMZ design Zero as alt. costume please.

Carnage please.

DMC1 costume for Dante please.
And once they do that, Nero/Virgil and Trish please.

Onimusha characters please.

I'll stop for now. Please Capcom Japan, please read.:lol

 

[viewtiful_dru]

I've never played TvC, and I consider myself a relatively casual MvC2 player (having picked it up for the first time when the PSN version was released).

I thought the controller scheme in MvC2 was simple and pretty intuitive. You have a light and hard punch, light and hard kick, and a button for each of your assists. Hit two buttons at the same time to switch characters or perform a 3-person hyper combo. Basic fighting game joystick motions + button press for all other moves. Easy and intuitive combo system (light before strong, punch before kick). Basically 4-buttons per character confined into a relatively easy to grasp system. The timing to pull off air combos and to cancel combos into regular moves or super moves takes a little practice to execute, but I felt it was minimal. 20-minutes of practice mode and I was easily pulling off ground combos to air combos cancelled into special attacks or supers.

It's tough for me to think of a controller scheme that could be simpler than MvC2, yet still retain a decent amount of flexibility. However, I hear that TvC has a 3-button attack system, and that MvC3 is basically confirmed to use this. Could someone familiar with both MvC2 and TvC give me a run-down on TvC's control scheme, its pros and cons, and how it materially differs from MvC2?

MvC2: 6 button control scheme
LP HP A1
LK HK A2
- LP = light punch, LK = light kick, HP = hard punch, HK = hard kick
A1 = assist 1, A2 = assist 2
- to access MP or MK you must hit with LP or LK twice
- for most characters, weak punches/kicks to strong punches/kicks count as a chain on the ground and in the air
- Tag: hit lp+lk or hp+hk to switch to your respective partners. your partner will enter with an attack
- Assist: A1 and A2 calls your respective partner's assist attack
- universal launcher (many chars): down/forward + HP or HK
- Team Super: press A1+A2 at the same time to do the team super. if you only have 1 level of super meter stocked, your character on point does his super, 2 levels gets your on point character and your first assist to come out and do their supers together , 3 levels gets your whole team to come out and do their supers.
- Snapback: hit qcf+ A1 or A2 to perform a snapback, A1 will swap the opponent's on-point char with his first partner, A2 swaps to the 2nd. costs 1 super meter stock
- Counter: while blocking, press back, down/back, down + A1 or A2 to switch to the respective partner, the partner enters with an attack. costs 1 super meter stock
- DHC: delayed hyper cancel, while your on point character is performing a super, perform your next partner's super motion and you will switch with your next character; he will enter performing his super. can be performed twice, costs 1 super meter stock per DHC (though some supers cost more)
- Pushblock: while blocking, press both punch buttons; this will cause the attacker to be pushed back, giving you breathing room.

TvC: 4 button control scheme
A B C
P
- A = light attack, B = medium attack, C = heavy attack P = partner/assist button
- some command normals can be performed by holding a direction with the appropriate attack button (for example, some characters' forward + B is an overhead attack)
- for most characters, weak to strong attacks chain. Pressing A,B,C is a 3 hit chain combo; this can be expanded with crouching and command normals. air combos also follow weak to strong rule
- universal launcher: press down/forward + C
- Tag: press back + C to switch with your partner, your partner will enter with an attack
- Assist: press C to call your partner and she will perform her assist attack
- Team Super: after performing your on-point character's super, press P and your partner will join in and perform her super combo. costs 3 levels of super stock
- Snapback: is now a move specific to 3 characters only: PTX 40A, Alex and Gold Lightan, and the command for each character is unique
- Counter: while blocking an attack, press forward + P; your partner will enter with an attack. costs 1 stock.
- DHC: same as Marvel, do your partner's super motion while your on point char is doing a super and they will switch, and the character entering will perform her super. can be performed twice and costs 1 super stock per DHC
- Pushblock: while blocking, press A+B+C this will cause the attacker to be pushed back, giving you breathing room. you can use this several times during a string and it reduces the amount of chip damage that you take.
- Variable Air Raid: while jumping (and often during an air combo) press qcf + P, and your on point character will glow blue and do an attack; if the attack connects (hit or block), you will switch characters mid air. The incoming character can attack (continue the combo)
- Baroque: during any normal or special attack, press any attack button + P; the attack animation will be interrupted immediately and your character will glow a rainbow color. This requires you to have "red life"; the more red life you sacrifice to use this technique, the higher damage the combo will do. (think of a Roman/Rapid cancel from Guilty Gear/Blazeblue repsectively)
- Mega Crash: press A+B+C+P to perform an attack that pushes your opponent backwards. You may use this at any time, except when you are being hit by a super combo. You can even use it while you are being hit by a normal combo. costs 2 super meter stocks and also a percentage of your life bar (functions like the Burst in Guilty/Blazblue)

It looks like to me that they tried to confine most of the functions pertaining to assist/partner/crossover attacks to the Partner button in TvC. It ended up working fairly well except for using the normal Tag, which could be easy to flub during gameplay (but on the other hand, it's not even the safest way to tag in except in some instances, so you wouldn't be doing it that often anyway).

I'm not sure how that is going to work in MvC3 where there are two partners.

 

[viewtiful_dru]

MMZ design Zero please.

DMC2 costume for Dante please.
And once they do that, Nero/Virgil and Trish please.

Onimusha characters please.

I'll stop for now. Please Capcom Japan, please read.:lol

fixed

edit: man you probably should have looked at TvC, that game has X series Zero and Soki from Dawn of Dreams

(and Viewtiful Joe )

 

[Mr. Pointy]

It looks like to me that they tried to confine most of the functions pertaining to assist/partner/crossover attacks to the Partner button in TvC. It ended up working fairly well except for using the normal Tag, which could be easy to flub during gameplay (but on the other hand, it's not even the safest way to tag in except in some instances, so you wouldn't be doing it that often anyway).

Possibly two-button tags (A/B/C+P) like the older Versus games?

 

[Netto-kun]

Now all I want for this game is Date Masamune from Sengoku Basara. And don't forget his Engrish!

 

[Boss Doggie]

Possibly two-button tags (A/B/C+P) like the older Versus games?

You don't even need three tags, just two.

 

[Dali]

I think Kaijima's post is dead-on.

I don't. It seems to make the assumption that Capcom has to completely ignore all the games they made during the fighting game boom and has to start completely anew. The MvC2 rerelease has sold well, SF2HD did well, SFIV did very well, TvC - a game that they weren't even going to release in the states - has done well here according to Capcom.

There is a market for fighting games and it's not just some tiny niche. All Capcom has to do is make the game look compelling and people will buy it. Since it's a 2D fighting game I see no reason why they can't apply the same design "ethics" (?) they've honed for the past two decades to MvC3. The million+ seller, SFIV, uses 6 buttons, SF2 uses six buttons (a game that seems to always sell well every time it is released), MvC2 separated the punches and kicks. Why do they have to dumb it down even further and risk alienating the people that will give this game legs?

I'm not hardcore by any means when it comes to the MvC series. I loved it because of the fan service. I never thought the controls were too difficult to just jump in and have fun with. In contrast, when I played the original TvC soon after its Japanese release I had the same issue someone said earlier. It's just not intuitive to someone who has played so many Capcom fighters to have punches and kicks mapped to the same button. I loved the fanservice but I just didn't enjoy the controls.

 

[Boss Doggie]

However, when you know that the controls are different, you should start with a blank slate.

 

[DR2K]

However, when you know that the controls are different, you should start with a blank slate.

You shouldn't call it MVC3 if you wanted players to do that.

 

[Dali]

However, when you know that the controls are different, you should start with a blank slate.

I dunno dude, separate punches and kicks is Capcom's thing. All of their more popular fighters use that scheme. It just seems kind of stupid to turn your back on years of what's worked and what people have come to expect from you.

 

[viewtiful_dru]

I'm not hardcore by any means when it comes to the MvC series. I loved it because of the fan service. I never thought the controls were too difficult to just jump in and have fun with. In contrast, when I played the original TvC soon after its Japanese release I had the same issue someone said earlier. It's just not intuitive to someone who has played so many Capcom fighters to have punches and kicks mapped to the same button. I loved the fanservice but I just didn't enjoy the controls.

Is this true? I've been playing Capcom fighting games since SF2 in the arcade, and I never had that problem with TvC.

Real, real talk, you should only need to play the game once to know what each of the attack buttons do. I don't think it is very confusing.

 

[Jet Grind Radio!]

I had a pretty low set of expectations for MvC3, and the only thing I'm worried about now is the controls. Well, not so much worried as lowered hype. I absolutely would have preferred the six button layout of MvC2 to MvC3.

Also, even though I like the costume design of DMC2 Dante, I much rather we get the DMC3 one. Cocky, young Dante is awesome.

 

[Dali]

Is this true? I've been playing Capcom fighting games since SF2 in the arcade, and I never had that problem with TvC.

Real, real talk, you should only need to play the game once to know what each of the attack buttons do. I don't think it is very confusing.

It's not confusing, it's just unintuitive and a needless departure from a design convention they've used for a long time. Threi already stated one of the problems with it: If you have two moves that use a similar motion (QCF/QCB or HCF/HCB) and you are getting crossed up, then the move that comes out is entirely dependent on what direction the game decides you are facing.

 

[mmxzero]

Also, even though I like the costume design of DMC2 Dante, I much rather we get the DMC3 one. Cocky, young Dante is awesome.

Yes
Rebellion and Agni & Rudra please Capcom!

 

[Kusagari]

I'm glad it's already been confirmed we get DMC3 Dante. Cocky Dante FTW

 

[Draft]

Yes
Rebellion and Agni & Rudra please Capcom!

If he pulls his guitar out for a slide, I'm willing to bet Dante's normals are going to be a mishmash or every DMC weapon.

 

[sixteen-bit]

so apparently they're going to "westernize" the capcom characters to mesh better with the marvel cast.

*thinks about darkstalkers cartoon*

not sure if want

 

[akilshohen]

anyone still got that leaked character list? I don't care if it's fake, I just want to see it.

 

["God's Beard!"]

LOL there's no such thing as "high level" in Jojo. You need more than 3 people playing a game to even have "levels."

6 players, motherfucker. Your move.

--Cpt. America: "This founding member of the avengers returns with his indestructible shield to deliver combatants to justice. He preserves most of his handy move-set, complete with deadly shield-a-rang tosses and evasive cartwheel maneuvers."
--Felicia: "Capcom's catgirl returns with her claws out to deliver quick and nimble combos to anyone distracted by her jiggle physics for too long. She is also able to summon a helpful little catgirl partner to double her threat."
--Deadpool: "Deadpool has the ability to teleport around the battlefield, but do it too many times and his device will backfire to hilarious results. Even breaking the fourth wall, Deadpool's special consists of beating down opponents with his own life bar."
--Dante: "He may be based on the young Devil May Cry 3 protagonist, but this Dante comes equipped with the best moves from the entire series. He can juggle rival fighters with his dual pistols, close distances by sliding on his knees while playing Nevan (his guitar weapon), and even activate his deadly Devil Trigger mode to increase his speed and power."
--Chris: "This BSAA agent brings over every weapon he can carry from Resident Evil 5 into Marvel vs Capcom 3. Chris devastates opponents with his pistol, shotgun, submachine gun, magnum, satellite laser, and grenade launcher (complete with fire, ice, and electric rounds). He also has a slide attack utilizing his electric baton."
--The Hulk: "Bruce Banner returns in his pissed-off form, and somehow he's even more monstrous than before. This green juggernaut is still sluggish, but his immense power and earth-quaking special make him a good bruiser for your team makeup."
--Wolverine: "Logan's claws ravage everything unfortunate enough to stand before him in brilliant swipes of color. His trademark Berserker Barrage move return as both an assist move and a special, making him a perfect main for your team and also a menacing assist character."
--Morrigan: "Darkstalkers' seductive succubus continues the battle with all her otherworldly moves. She catapults opponents skyward with a gigantic spear summoned from the ground and delivers flying reverse pile drivers."
--Iron Man: "Sleeker and slimmer than MvC 2's Tony Stark, this iteration of Iron Man better reflects his current style in the comics. The gold and maroon superhero's gigantic laser cannon still makes for a great assist, and his jet-boots make him ideal for aerial maneuvers."

I don't care if this is made by Playskool, I need it.

 

[TreIII]

It's not confusing, it's just unintuitive and a needless departure from a design convention they've used for a long time. Threi already stated one of the problems with it: If you have two moves that use a similar motion (QCF/QCB or HCF/HCB) and you are getting crossed up, then the move that comes out is entirely dependent on what direction the game decides you are facing.

Actually, that was me, but yeah.

Again, if the game, by nature, was one that didn't have a lot of motions to worry about, it wouldn't be an issue. It works for the likes of Melty Blood, because most of the characters in that game only have a few moves each (where some are even mapped to less complex motions like "Down X 2 + A/B/C).

It doesn't work for a Marvel style game, however, because each character should have a bevy of moves at its arsenal. With Tatsunoko vs. Capcom, the over-simplication of the control scheme leads to the same shit that made MegaMan X6 a bear. Any body who remembers that game, and how certain moves with X/Zero could easily lead to certain death, depending on the situation, knows EXACTLY what I'm speaking of. :lol

 

[hitsugi]

so apparently they're going to "westernize" the capcom characters to mesh better with the marvel cast.

*thinks about darkstalkers cartoon*

not sure if want

they should do this so that the capcom side (chun li and strider aside) isn't completely worthless this go around.

 

[TreIII]

they should do this so that the capcom side (chun li and strider aside) isn't completely worthless this go around.

That depends on how they do it, really.

The main thing was that Marvel characters ALWAYS had more options than the majority of the Capcom side. That's why you only see CapCom and Strider being played on the higher levels.

I honestly don't care if it means giving veterans new moves exclusive for this series or whatever, but I would like to see them be able to keep up better.

 

[sixteen-bit]

they should do this so that the capcom side (chun li and strider aside) isn't completely worthless this go around.

sorry if I was unclear

aesthetically westernize

hence the DS cartoon reference

 

[akilshohen]

Cammy is up there too...
I hope Tron Bonne is in.

 

[hitsugi]

sorry if I was unclear

aesthetically westernize

hence the DS cartoon reference

oh man.. all I thought of was darkstalkers.... not the cartoon D:

however, who can deny this awesomeness?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iE5rHPJ5vjM

 

[Manmademan]

sorry if I was unclear

aesthetically westernize

hence the DS cartoon reference

didnt they aready do this with SFIV?

 

[hitsugi]

didnt they aready do this with SFIV?

please see the video above for how western it could get..

 

[Hex]

please see the video above for how western it could get..

So what, should we go all "the sky is falling" and post videos of the Street Fighter animated series? (And I do not mean V)
Capcom will not overly westernize anything, it is an artstyle that they are using and we have already seen examples of it.

 

[TreIII]

sorry if I was unclear

aesthetically westernize

hence the DS cartoon reference

Well, depending on how it's done, it could be alright.

Going by the end of the trailer, we can confirm the presence of Ryu's English VA, which more than likely means the entire/most of the Capcom side could end up having English VAs to help them fit better with the overall package.

For some, like Dante, it's a no-brainer; they'll just give Reuben Langdon that much more work. For Morrigan and Felicia, who haven't had anything since that "legendary" cartoon, it remains to be seen (but definitely could be the start of what could hopefully be what we may see if a Darkstalkers 4 does indeed happen).

Any way, I'm not too worried. At worst, it just means that much more in the way of comical acting throughout the "storymode", where everybody may stand to have some cheesy one liners of some sort. :lol

 

[Manmademan]

please see the video above for how western it could get..

eh, I remember that show from its original run. Low budget syndicated cartoon has bad art? who'da thunk it?

If we're going the whole eastern vs/western art debate, I personally feel western comic art styles are vastly preferable to anime/manga designs, but that's just me.

seriously though- they already reworked the cast to have a more "western" appeal in SFIV. this is why ryu and ken look like RE5 era chris redfield...

 

[Boss Doggie]

Actually, that was me, but yeah.

Again, if the game, by nature, was one that didn't have a lot of motions to worry about, it wouldn't be an issue. It works for the likes of Melty Blood, because most of the characters in that game only have a few moves each (where some are even mapped to less complex motions like "Down X 2 + A/B/C).

It doesn't work for a Marvel style game, however, because each character should have a bevy of moves at its arsenal. With Tatsunoko vs. Capcom, the over-simplication of the control scheme leads to the same shit that made MegaMan X6 a bear. Any body who remembers that game, and how certain moves with X/Zero could easily lead to certain death, depending on the situation, knows EXACTLY what I'm speaking of. :lol

That's more on the lax input, which is the only thing I have a problem with TvC and most modern fighters.

Number of buttons won't be a problem, at least in TvC's case, since only a few characters in Cap side have that being from other fighting games. I don't think it's a good argument to use when 75% of the cast are new.

Heck, they remodeled Roll in TvC. Whose to say they might remodel other characters in Marvel?

 

[hitsugi]

So what, should we go all "the sky is falling" and post videos of the Street Fighter animated series? (And I do not mean V)
Capcom will not overly westernize anything, it is an artstyle that they are using and we have already seen examples of it.

hey if they bring Lord Raptor back and give him a guitar exploding dinosaur super.. I'm in.

 

[Boss Doggie]

A lot of people seem to forget though - it's the principles that are kept. Not the buttons nor the controls, but the principle of Capcom fighting games.

Hell, Capcom made fighting games with less than 6 buttons outside of TvC (Pocket Fighter, Jojo, Rival Schools, Plasma Sword, etc.). It shouldn't be much of an issue, especially to fighting game fans.

 

[Jet Grind Radio!]

The principles? That's what you're going with? Ok then.

 

[Boss Doggie]

Really though, I think it's petty that people are complaining about the amount of buttons, especially when they themselves admit only to play 6 button games.

 

[hitsugi]

Really though, I think it's petty that people are complaining about the amount of buttons, especially when they themselves admit only to play 6 button games.

I play GG series, BB, VF, Tekken, and even Smash. Competitively? No, but well enough. However, none of those games are in the MVC series, so none of those games really relate to this discussion. Understand?

 

[Boss Doggie]

So? MvC2 also altered the series by having three people and having four commands too.

Really, it's just a matter of being able to adapt. After all, unlike the transition of the previous versus games where it was just "add some sprite!", this one seems to be an overhaul, so why not also change things that they couldn't do due to sprite limitations?

PS: I really don't like to defend Marvel versus games (I'm still bitter about Capcom opening the gates of fresh, creative crossovers only to return back for another boring Marvel roster), but I do feel that it's quite unfair for something to be treated so badly because it's different, especially when it's not yet released.

 

[Jet Grind Radio!]

Really though, I think it's petty that people are complaining about the amount of buttons, especially when they themselves admit only to play 6 button games.

It's not the number of buttons that's the issue, it's how those buttons work. I know people have said that that TvC controls fine, but I want something a bit more "traditional" when it comes to MvC. The six button, LP/HP/LK/HK/Assist A/Assist B, configuration is easier to jump into, and is not as complex as some people are making it out to be. Hell, it could be an 8 button layout, and I wouldn't mind at all.

 

[hitsugi]

but I do feel that it's quite unfair for something to be treated so badly because it's different, especially when it's not yet released.

being treated badly because you're different is an unfortunate fact of life.

and apparently a fact of video game life, too. look at the hate that Zelda 2, Mario 2, and Final Fantasy 2 all got... then they went right back to the original recipe.

...okay Mario 2 in Japan was like the original, but over here we got that other game which I personally loved but many people did not.

We'll have to see how things pan out, but for the most part MVC2's control scheme just made sense. Perfect sense. Perhaps they can do it again with MVC3's "simplified" / "more accessible" / whatever you want to call it control scheme... but since the control scheme isn't official and basically doesn't exist to us right now - no one knows what to think.

 

[autobzooty]

I always considered MvC2 a 4 button fighter anyways. I guess I just never counted the assist buttons.

So it's confirmed that they're gonna have 3 attack buttons and one assist button? That's kind of a shame...

 

[-DarKaoZ-]

I always considered MvC2 a 4 button fighter anyways. I guess I just never counted the assist buttons.

So it's confirmed that they're gonna have 3 attack buttons and one assist button? That's kind of a shame...

Nah, I think it will work this way:

LP - MP - HP - EXCHANGE - Assist 1 - Assist 2

The game needs 2 assist buttons to do all that crazy squad recruitment/management shit. :lol

 

[Beth Cyra]

I play GG series, BB, VF, Tekken, and even Smash. Competitively? No, but well enough. However, none of those games are in the MVC series, so none of those games really relate to this discussion. Understand?

Sure you are right that GG and BB are not part of MvC, and I maybe be alone but at least when I bring up BB it is because it handles so well with the four button setup.

And lets be totally honest, the decision is already made and there is no going back at least for MvC III, so when I and other likes me are saying things about BB it is simply to show that it can be done well and we hope that MvC III can pull off the setup close to as well as ASW in their games.

It maybe different and people may not like it but it is what it is and I would prefer hoping for a smooth system like BB then thinking it will be total shit because they choose to do things then how it was done in MvC II.

 

[IntelliHeath]

For people who kept asking for rumored list.

Marvel
Captain America
Thor
Iron Man
Spider-Man
Hulk
She Hulk
Doctor Doom
Mister Fantastic
Super Skrull
Taskmaster
Emma Frost
Magneto
Juggernaut
Wolverine
X-23
Deadpool
Elektra
Shuma-Gorath

Capcom
Ryu
Chun Li
Akuma
Mike Haggar
Spencer (Bionic Commando)
Dante
Trish
Morrigan
Hsien-Ko
Felicia
Arthur (Ghouls and Ghosts)
Frank West
Chris
Wesker
Viewtiful Joe
Amaterasu
Zero
Tron Bonne

 

[Beth Cyra]

For people who kept asking for rumored list.

Marvel
Captain America
Thor
Iron Man
Spider-Man
Hulk
She Hulk
Doctor Doom
Mister Fantastic
Super Skrull
Taskmaster
Emma Frost
Magneto
Juggernaut
Wolverine
X-23
Deadpool
Elektra
Shuma-Gorath

Capcom
Ryu
Chun Li
Akuma
Mike Haggar
Spencer (Bionic Commando)
Dante
Trish
Morrigan
Hsien-Ko
Felicia
Arthur (Ghouls and Ghosts)
Frank West
Chris
Wesker
Viewtiful Joe
Amaterasu
Zero
Tron Bonne

While the list isn't terrible I am glad it was confirmed fake.

I am still holding out hope for X and War Machine to make it into the game.

 

[IntelliHeath]

While the list isn't terrible I am glad it was confirmed fake.

I am still holding out hope for X and War Machine to make it into the game.

War Machine is glorified clone of Iron Man but I love to use him in MvC2. I want more variable characters that have potential to be different. Also I want most of capcom characters from MvC2 to return (expect SFers) Just mostly Jin, Strider, Hayate, SonSon, Commendo Captain to return along with Megaman, Phoenix Wright and Arthur.

Edited: I am curious how did people came to conclusion that it is confirmed to be fake. I know it is fake but did creator of list admit it?