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Why are modern JRPGs such a mess?

Are you addressing me here?

No. Just a general observation. The OP based all of this off of ROGUE GALAXY. I can't get over it.

Fucking ROGUE GALAXY. An over ten year old medicore game that was poorly receieved and just as quickly forgotten.

gg5JhPa.gif


AHAHAHAHAHA.

Also "every jrpg stars an amnesiac with a magic wielding girlfriend" is a good way to tell me plainly "I have never played a jrpg beyond Final Fantasy and Tales."
 

Shahed

Member
No. Just a general observation. The OP based all of this off of ROGUE GALAXY. I can't get over it.

Fucking ROGUE GALAXY. An over ten year old medicore game that was poorly receieved and just as quickly forgotten.

gg5JhPa.gif


AHAHAHAHAHA.

Oh yeah I played it recently and the game wasn't all that. It har some good ideas and the scope of it seemed pretty good at first. But it fell apart quite quickly and the interesting aspects and ideas were either underutilised or just plain executed badly.
 
How come every time there's someone lamenting the fall of jrpgs it's someone who has barely played any jrpgs? EVERY TIME.

Because back in the day you didn't have to scratch the barrel to find a modern console JRPG? People are quoting games which came out more than 5 years ago! From Square Enix alone Final fantasy Tactics, 7,8,9 and 10 all released within a shorter span than that. Just this year we have A Call of Duty, Battefield and Titanfall as top tier FPS, what do we have for JRPG's? P5 if you live in Japan, but whilst I could pick those FPS's off the top of my head I can't think of a single western console release of a JRPG coming out this year. The idea that JRPG's haven't fallen is ridiculous.
 
Oh yeah I played it recently and the game wasn't all that. It har some good ideas and the scope of it seemed pretty good at first. But it fell apart quite quickly and the interesting aspects and ideas were either underutilised or just plain executed badly.

"Why are modern platformers a mess? I just picked up KAMEO..."

gg5JhPa.gif
 
Because back in the day you didn't have to scratch the barrel to find a modern console JRPG? People are quoting games which came out more than 5 years ago! From Square Enix alone Final fantasy Tactics, 7,8,9 and 10 all released within a shorter span than that. Just this year we have A Call of Duty, Battefield and Titanfall as top tier FPS, what do we have for JRPG's? P5 if you live in Japan, but whilst I could pick those FPS's off the top of my head I can't think of a single western console JRPG coming out this year. The idea that JRPG's haven't fallen is ridiculous.

Back in the day? What is back in the day? The SNES era? Or the PS1 era?

Do you think the average rpg player heard of or played Persona 2 when it came out in English? I wonder how much Jade Cocoon sold?! What about that Suikoden II? Thousand Arms? The genre has always had games that you'd have to scratch the surface to find. It's been a part of the genre experience for over 20 years.

Back in the day? In the ps2 days? I had to beg my friends to give Suikoden III and V a shot. I was the only person I knew who played those games. If you can't find a modern console jrpg, you need to go to another source: handheld jrpgs. If you're not big on handheld rpgs that is your own fault. The 3ds is killing it this year. Even console jrpgs are bringing that sweet Jrpg action. If you are jrpg starved in the year of our Lord 2016 you have fucked up bad.
 

Fou-Lu

Member
2016 JRPGs that I can think of off the top of my head:

World of Final Fantasy
Fire Emblem Fates
Shin Megami Tensei IV: Apocalypse
Kingdom Hearts 2.8
Tokyo Mirage Sessions
Dragon Quest VII
Digimon Cyber Sleuth
Persona 5 in Japan
Dragon Quest Builders
Phantom Brave PC
Atelier Sophie
Atelier Firis in Japan
Tales of Berseria in Japan
Stranger of Sword City
YS VIII in Japan
Dark Souls 3
Dragon's Dogma for PC
Odin Sphere Leifthrasir
Valkyria Chronicles HD
I am Setsuna
Final Fantasy 15
Star Ocean V
7th Dragon III Code: VFD
Bravely Second
Pokémon Sun and Moon
Trails of Cold Steel II
Yokai Watch 2
 

Tohsaka

Member
Because back in the day you didn't have to scratch the barrel to find a modern console JRPG? People are quoting games which came out more than 5 years ago! From Square Enix alone Final fantasy Tactics, 7,8,9 and 10 all released within a shorter span than that. Just this year we have A Call of Duty, Battefield and Titanfall as top tier FPS, what do we have for JRPG's? P5 if you live in Japan, but whilst I could pick those FPS's off the top of my head I can't think of a single western console JRPG coming out this year. The idea that JRPG's haven't fallen is ridiculous.

Trails of Cold Steel 2
World of Final Fantasy
Final Fantasy XV
Exist Archive
Dragon Quest Builders
Kingdom Hearts 2.8
Akiba's Beat

All are coming out this year, plus a bunch of good handheld ones.
 
I need to know if the people saying there's a lack of console jrpgs have bought the following titles:

I am Setsuna
Trails of Cold Steel
Dark Souls 3
Dragon's Dogma: Dark Arisen
 

irriadin

Member
What about saving the village children (including your own) who were taken to be made slaves of. In the process you could crumble all four pillars of an empire which lasted for millennia.

Is this a game? If so, I want to know. If not, somebody go and make this, please.
 

Lynx_7

Member
I can't say I have noticed any shortage of good JRPGs myself, but maybe I'm not the best person to talk about it since I'm constantly mixing up my jrpg catalogue with both newer and older stuff I still haven't played (which is a lot. Kinda overwhelming tbh). Just this month alone there's Dragon Quest VII, SMT 4 Apocalypse, Cold Steel 2 and Yokai Watch 2. There's Pokemon Sun and Moon and Final Fantasy XV in the coming months. I still haven't bought Odin's Sphere or Digimon: Cyber Sleuth, both of which I'm interested in. Persona 5 is coming next year and Dragon Quest XI will release... someday. Does Disgaea count as a JRPG? I gotta get to that sometime too. Tokyo Mirage Sessions, while a bit too otaku to my tastes, still seems like a very good rpg from a gameplay standpoint. Oh, and there's Xenoblade Chronicles X, and I still haven't even beaten the first.
Add to that list Etrian Odyssey, the Mario RPGs, the Bravely series, Ni No Kuni and some cool little one-shots like Radiant Historia and there's actually more recent-ish JRPGs to play than I have money or time to spare. Quality ones too.

There are definitely less mid-tier budget JRPGs on the home console market, that much is undeniable. I also do miss seeing the more polished stuff on the big screen, but hopefully Ni No Kuni 2, DQ XI and P5 will deliver. Also, now that Atlus has a fully working HD engine and demon assets, hopefully we'll see them back to their PS2-era productivity in consoles. A SMT 5 and DDS-like spin-offs for the PS4/NX would be my dream come true.

This is also why I hope FF XV is the turning point for Square in this generation, because a healthy FF brand usually reflects well on the general perception of the genre.
 
On topic, I can't say I have noticed any shortage of good JRPGs myself, but maybe I'm not the best person to talk about it since I'm constantly mixing up my jrpg catalogue with both newer and older stuff I still haven't played (which is a lot. Kinda overwhelming tbh). Just this month alone there's Dragon Quest VII, SMT 4 Apocalypse, Cold Steel 2 and Yokai Watch 2. There's Pokemon Sun and Moon and Final Fantasy XV in the coming months. I still haven't bought Odin's Sphere or Digimon: Cyber Sleuth, both of which I'm interested in. Persona 5 is coming next year and Dragon Quest XI will release... someday. Does Disgaea count as a JRPG? I gotta get to that sometime too. Tokyo Mirage Sessions, while a bit too otaku to my tastes, still seems like a very good rpg from a gameplay standpoint. Oh, and there's Xenoblade Chronicles X, and I still haven't even beaten the first.
Add to that list Etrian Odyssey, the Mario RPGs, the Bravely series, Ni No Kuni and some cool little one-shots like Radiant Historia and there's actually more recent-ish JRPGs to play than I have money or time to spare. Quality ones too.

There are definitely less mid-tier budget JRPGs on the home console market, that much is undeniable. I also do miss seeing the more polished stuff on the big screen, but hopefully Ni No Kuni 2, DQ XI and P5 will deliver. Also, now that Atlus has a fully working HD engine and demon assets, hopefully we'll see them back to their PS2-era productivity in consoles. A SMT 5 and DDS-like spin-offs for the PS4/NX would be my dream come true.

This is also why I hope FF XV is the turning point for Square in this generation, because a healthy FF brand usually reflects well on the general perception of the genre in general.

As much as I think FFXV's had a lot of pre-release issues and weird marketing, we NEED that game to be a success. I think the genre in general thrives when FF is healthy because FF is a lot of peoples introduction to the genre. FF is what creates a new generation of jrpg fans and they eventually want to find more and seek it out. We need a healthy FF for that purpose. So for that reason, I'm hoping FFXV is a great game and it sells a lot.
 

Shahed

Member
2016 JRPGs that I can think of off the top of my head:

World of Final Fantasy
Tokyo Mirage Sessions
Dark Souls 3
I am Setsuna
Final Fantasy 15
Star Ocean V
Trails of Cold Steel II

I edited the post a bit. As a predominantly console player I removed handheld only titles. I also got rid of re-releases or remaster and anything not releasing in the West this year.

World of Final Fantasy looks interesting I'll give it that. Actually quite hopeful about that one. I've heard some decent things about TMS, but personally I find the whole idol thing extremely off putting and I've not liked the recent SMT games I've played. Despite playing the other Souls games and Bloodborne, I haven't played DSIII yet. I'm sure it'll be good, but it's not really the same type of game as say a Final Fantasy, Breath of Fire, Dragon Quest and so on. I am Setsuna was decent but extremely limited in scope. I want FFXV to be good, but going by Duscaea and the Platinum demo as well as other showings i have my doubts about that game. Star Ocean is just completely and utterly mediocre in every way. Looking forward to Cold Steel II though!

Despite crossing it off, I will play Dragon Quest VII at some point
 

Gaius

Banned
Is this a game? If so, I want to know. If not, somebody go and make this, please.

Hah no, that's just an on the spot idea of what could be if you didn't need to save the world. I think there's a vast ocean of ideas unexplored in JRPG just because the genre holds itself in chains.
 

Morrigan Stark

Arrogant Smirk
Voice acting killed JRPG stories.

250px-PanzerDragoonSagaBox.jpg


No reason why it should have.

What...? I don't even know how to respond to such an ignoramus.
Preferences are not ignorance.

"Why are modern platformers a mess? I just picked up KAMEO..."

gg5JhPa.gif
Back in the day? What is back in the day? The SNES era? Or the PS1 era?

Do you think the average rpg player heard of or played Persona 2 when it came out in English? I wonder how much Jade Cocoon sold?! What about that Suikoden II? Thousand Arms? The genre has always had games that you'd have to scratch the surface to find. It's been a part of the genre experience for over 20 years.

Back in the day? In the ps2 days? I had to beg my friends to give Suikoden III and V a shot. I was the only person I knew who played those games. If you can't find a modern console jrpg, you need to go to another source: handheld jrpgs. If you're not big on handheld rpgs that is your own fault. The 3ds is killing it this year. Even console jrpgs are bringing that sweet Jrpg action. If you are jrpg starved in the year of our Lord 2016 you have fucked up bad.
Way to ignore the entire thread, Cindi. You're being obnoxious, please stop.
 
No. Just a general observation. The OP based all of this off of ROGUE GALAXY. I can't get over it.

Fucking ROGUE GALAXY. An over ten year old medicore game that was poorly receieved and just as quickly forgotten.

gg5JhPa.gif


AHAHAHAHAHA.

Also "every jrpg stars an amnesiac with a magic wielding girlfriend" is a good way to tell me plainly "I have never played a jrpg beyond Final Fantasy and Tales."

This is the last time I'm going to state this. I'm not basing my observation off of Rogue Galaxy alone. Rogue Galaxy made me notice this trend that is going on. I bought into Rogue Galaxy taking a chance on maybe it being actually interesting. It was just another trope ridden JRPG with cringey dialogue and lame combat. For the most part before I buy into a game I look at gameplay, but this was more of an impulse buy, because I dont know what it was I was craving. It was something.
 
I haven't ignored the thread exactly. It's just another "jrpgs are shit" thread with a lot of people who haven't exactly played too many jrpgs. I just can't get over using Rogue Galaxy as an example for modern jrpgs, much less as an example that jrpgs have lost their way.

Even if I think modern jrpgs have some issues, it's just hilarious. I cannot stand the "jrpgs haven't evolved since the ps1 era" and "jrpgs only have stories with amnesiacs and magic wielding princesses."

While it's true you can have preferences. Console jrpgs have been slagging since about the release of Persona 4/Lost Odyssey/Tales of Vesperia/Blue Dragon. Only recently has it picked up. There have been a lot of hidden gems like Nier and Resonance of Fate. So This year alone has been insane in terms of sheer numbers for the genre. I'm sorry, but the whole thing about console rpgs being lacking just makes no sense to me. There's a lot of choice these days. More so than compared to ten years ago. Granted, there is a hole to be filled in that there's nothing maturely handled like Panzer Dragoon Saga or Suikoden III. Games like that don't exist anymore, to be true. But the Trails series seems to offer a decent replacement. I couldn't say because while I've wanted to get into Trails, FC bores me to tears.

I don't think I was wrong at all. You have always had to scratch the surface to find more diverse games in this genre. Because it's niche and always will be.
 
Trails of Cold Steel 2
World of Final Fantasy
Final Fantasy XV
Exist Archive
Dragon Quest Builders
Kingdom Hearts 2.8
Akiba's Beat

All are coming out this year, plus a bunch of good handheld ones.

Quite embarrassed I forgot about FFV lol, also some other good games here too. I think I've been stuck on my PC too much and forgot that most of the stuff will be on PS4

I need to know if the people saying there's a lack of console jrpgs have bought the following titles:

I am Setsuna
Trails of Cold Steel
Dark Souls 3
Dragon's Dogma: Dark Arisen

I am Setsuna - Not yet. Poor steam user reviews put me off till a price drop
Trails of Cold Steel - Retired my PS3 a while ago
Dark Souls 3 - Completed
Dragon's Dogma: Dark Arisen - Completed
 

kswiston

Member
I have been playing jrpgs since the mid-90s. While I agree that modern games are often bloated with needless sub-systems, I think that some of the recycled character feeling just comes from seeing all the permutations over the years. Those character arctypes were ripped straight out of manga/anime/fantasy books and weren't fresh/unique in the 90s either. You just didnt know any better because you were younger/unfamiliar with those tropes.
 
Back in the day? What is back in the day? The SNES era? Or the PS1 era?

Either? Some of the best games ever made where JRPG's created in those eras. My era was more PS1 but I remember you didn't have to go far to know someone who had a copy of FF7 or 8. Really can't be said about any JRPG today. Most people didn't really needed to play niche JRPG's because they were already being satisfied with the mainstream ones.
 

Gaius

Banned
I have been playing jrpgs since the mid-90s. While I agree that modern games are often bloated with needless sub-systems, I think that some of the recycled character feeling just comes from seeing all the permutations over the years. Those character arctypes were ripped straight out of manga/anime/fantasy books and weren't fresh/unique in the 90s either. You just didnt know any better because you were younger/unfamiliar with those tropes.

So basically... we grew out of JRPG?

I understand what you're saying, but i would argue that most of us loved anime and JRPG in the 90's because there were more diverse characters and worlds than in Looney Toones. Anime was just a different kind of cartoon, that offered something west media didn't - and that's to explore more serious themes. Nowadays there's no chance that anime will explore something more than TV shows, movies, and western games will. We grew up, there's no need for a "more adult cartoon", we can get so much more now.

Obviously i'm exaggerating and taking everything to 11 just to make a point.

Talks about gameplay mechanics is very strange to me. That's not the thing that's holding jRPGs down in no significant way and never will, except if it's broken. I'd play a game written to a highest level and average game mechanics, than vice-versa. These we have plenty.
 

DragoonKain

Neighbours from Hell
This may have already been covered, but:

1. The more that come out and the more you play, the less and less room there is that will impress you since you've seen it all and played it all. Barring major innovations, the genre will feel stale. If you played some JRPGs that feel stale today 15 years ago, they'd probably be amazing.

2. Developers realize this and the changes they do make to the genre is trying too hard to be something else. Trying to make JRPGs "east meets west" usually doesn't work. Gotta go all-in, no half measures. It usually makes for a mess that doesn't know what its own identity is. If they wanna innovate, they need to make a JRPG that truly follows western styles all the way, or rebuild what they feel a JRPG is from the ground up.
 

Fencedude

Member
So I've never gotten past Chapter 1 of TitS FC, but it seemed like a used a lot of these tropes? Like Joshua is an amnesia/fatherless kid, Estelle is his feisty step-sister/love interest, they assemble a rag tag group and go questing together.


Uhh Estelle isn't a "love interest", she's the Main Fucking Character.

Trails in the Sky (and its sequel) are explicitly Her Story.
 

Gibbles17

Member
Good/decent VA+dialogue in JRPG are very rare indeed. You're looking at FF12, FFT: WoTL, Xenoblade, DQ8, Lost Odyssey, Valkryra Chronicles, Persona 4 to some extent, maybe a couple more.

Definitely all of the above, I'll add in the KH series as well. Stellar VA at the very least and the dialogue is fitting and delivered very naturally.

Even though I'm still super stoked for the game itself, I've given up hope for XV following the demos and Kingsglaive. Still haven't made it all the way through the latter, will probably end up watching it in bursts. Originally thought the big-name VAs would improve the dialogue and do the script justice, but if anything, hearing the three leads deliver their lines makes the dialogue even more jarring than if they were actors I'd never heard of before. If that makes any sense.
 
But, I mean, you wouldn't really use the lack of visual novels like Ace Attorney or Zero Escape series on consoles to judge the genre, right?

Or strategy games, or puzzle games. Those are other genres that are bigger on portables these days.

Tbh, there's quite a bit of overlap between PCs and portables in the sorts of games they do well.

I see where the gap is being felt, because alot of these other genres were never so big on home consoles, so the lack of truly great heavy hitters on consoles is really obvious. Every E3, very few games for portables are going to get too much focus, so people aren't thinking of them as much.

Tbh though, the whole HD jump killing AA development and all those increased costs makes me happy that the DS and PSP were options. I've seen people say that it allowed companies to run away from HD development, but I don't really see those same games getting developed without portables.

To give you an idea of what I'm talking about:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Breath_of_Fire#Reception

Not sure how accurate those sales numbers are, but Capcom in 2010 saying the Breath of Fire series was their most successful RPG series at 3.1 million units sold by the fifth game seems pretty dire. And tbh, it's more of these rpgs that are more obviously missing from consoles: they don't sell like Final Fantasy or Kingdom Hearts or Dragon Quest in Japan, but they're damn good, have the support of a major publisher, etc.

So it's a mix of those sorts of games becoming the TWEWY, Radiant Historia, and hell, even Kingdom Hearts BBS (it's bascially as mainline as the numbered releases) on portable consoles, along with the fact that the biggest hitters, like Final Fantasy, Kingdom Hearts, going away.

Alot of the console jrpgs that DO become bigger, like Persona, or Xenoblade, would probably have qualified and really successful examples of those sorts of games, but because the biggest hitters never really came, they sorta became said biggest hitters.

The really shitty crap has always been there, relies on small budgets and fans that are willing to pay a ton for a bunch of stuff to make a profit. They're just more visible now because of lack of region lock, importing, and the dearth of those bigger titles to hide that crap.

tl;dr: Your Wild Arms, Xenosagas, Breath of Fires, NEVER sold well enough to ever continue onto HD consoles, especially the 1st gen of HD consoles. The games that did sell well enough were either better suited to go/stay portable for sales/audience (Dragon Quest, Pokemon) or disappointed/delayed forever (FF for all last gen until 14 2.0?, FFV13, KH3, etc.)

You're overrating the previous success of the genre

I like you; you see the world as it is, not as you must to get thru the day.

So basically... we grew out of JRPG?[/B]

I understand what you're saying, but i would argue that most of us loved anime and JRPG in the 90's because there were more diverse characters and worlds than in Looney Toones. Anime was just a different kind of cartoon, that offered something west media didn't - and that's to explore more serious themes. Nowadays there's no chance that anime will explore something more than TV shows, movies, and western games will. We grew up, there's no need for a "more adult cartoon", we can get so much more now.

Obviously i'm exaggerating and taking everything to 11 just to make a point.

Talks about gameplay mechanics is very strange to me. That's not the thing that's holding jRPGs down in no significant way and never will, except if it's broken. I'd play a game written to a highest level and average game mechanics, than vice-versa. These we have plenty.

It's arguable that's one half of it yes. That, and the PC exodus of 10 years ago I mentioned.

Uhh Estelle isn't a "love interest", she's the Main Fucking Character.

Trails in the Sky (and its sequel) are explicitly Her Story.

Nor is Josh "the love interest". It wouldn't be a damn great romance if he was.
 

Fdkn

Member
It's easy to say every jrpg follow the same tropes when every time a popular one goes out of that confort zone people go full mental gymnastics to call that game a different genre.

The popular distinction is required, as nobody had a problem with king's field, shadow tower or even demon's souls being jrpgs until dark souls reached the mainstream. Going openworld is okay for Tales but with FFXV there come the doubts. Terranigma or Ys were full action with only one controlable character but that's now approaching western design too.

I really don't know why people bring up the Souls series so much in these discussions. I get that technically it's an RPG and technically it's from Japan but to me I really don't think the people like me wondering where their beloved JRPGs are going are even remotely talking about something like Souls. To me the Souls series is literally the opposite of everything I love about JRPGs.

that's what I was talking about. What you like doesn't make the genre. That just means you don't like every jrpg, and that's normal.
 

RDreamer

Member
I need to know if the people saying there's a lack of console jrpgs have bought the following titles:

I am Setsuna
Trails of Cold Steel
Dark Souls 3
Dragon's Dogma: Dark Arisen

I really don't know why people bring up the Souls series so much in these discussions. I get that technically it's an RPG and technically it's from Japan but to me I really don't think the people like me wondering where their beloved JRPGs are going are even remotely talking about something like Souls. To me the Souls series is literally the opposite of everything I love about JRPGs.
 

Lynx_7

Member
I really don't know why people bring up the Souls series so much in these discussions. I get that technically it's an RPG and technically it's from Japan but to me I really don't think the people like me wondering where their beloved JRPGs are going are even remotely talking about something like Souls. To me the Souls series is literally the opposite of everything I love about JRPGs.
I mean, FF XIII is also the opposite of everything I love about JRPGs but I won't deny that it's part of the genre.

I get what you're saying though. Maybe we should adopt other monikers instead of physical location to differentiate between FF styled rpgs and TES/Witcher ones because the current ones always end up in these sorts of semantics debates.
 

Fencedude

Member
Honestly, it's the cringe characters/storylines.

Growing up and playing old school FF games and other games like Chrono Trigger were interesting.

Now there's TOO MUCH anime :/

Almost all modern day JRPGs have shitty stories and child characters that make me want to turn off the game. Otherwise, the gameplay still rocks (looking at you Tales of and Star Ocean).

Definitely no anime in Chrono Trigger!

Nope

Not one single bit.

5v4ssMi.jpg
 

Aurongel

Member
The way I see it, Japan sacrificed and entire genre just to bring us Dark Souls.

If that's the cost of all modern JRPGs being smutty garbage then so be it.
 

Gaius

Banned
It's arguable that's one half of it yes. That, and the PC exodus of 10 years ago I mentioned.

I've only yet read the first part of Shift in Japanese Pop Culture, but it makes a lot of sense. I could definitely see that otaku culture started the Japanese media stagnation. And if the genre stops expanding, while you keep going, there's a time when it stops clicking with you.
 
These days, there's very little to be found in the category of high quality traditional turn-based/ATB JRPGs. There's a good bit of:

1) Sub-genres (Strategy/RPGs, Action/RPGs, Dungeon Crawler RPGS)
2) Low budget traditional JRPGs on mobile
3) Dark Souls & Monster Hunter clones
4) Unique genre-bending games (Valkyria Chronicles, TWEWY, Xenoblade)

There's little in the way of great JRPG "comfort food." And it doesn't help that there's no dominant platform for JRPGs like there was in the past (SNES/PS1/PS2).
 

Opa-Pa

Member
It's weird to see people look confused about the use of "anime" to describe games in a negative light. I always wonder if they're legitimately confused or is just a way to show they don't like that use of the term. Stuff like that and the extremely polarized interpretations of whar "JRPG" means make discussions on the topic pretty difficult and sometimes a waste of time... Still some posts here have been pretty insightful and I've added some games to my list.

Also lol at turn based combat being inherently bad, what the hell am I reading.

The way I see it, Japan sacrificed and entire genre just to bring us Dark Souls.

If that's the cost of all modern JRPGs being smutty garbage then so be it.

I gotta say this is a pretty good mindset to cope with the overabundance of anime games in the genre nowadays, thanks.
 

Sanctuary

Member
Definitely no anime in Chrono Trigger!

Nope

Not one single bit.

5v4ssMi.jpg

That's not what the person you quoted was saying at all. The sprites on the 16-bit systems also didn't look anywhere near as detailed as the concept art either. Today, characters can look closer to, if not exactly like their concept art.

The way I see it, Japan sacrificed and entire genre just to bring us Dark Souls.

If that's the cost of all modern JRPGs being smutty garbage then so be it.

This doesn't even make any sense. FROM was mostly making darker, western styled RPGs since the mid 90s anwyay. Their output has little, to zero relevance to the decline of the JRPG on home consoles.
 

RPGam3r

Member
They're still RPGs though no matter how you want to slice it. Maybe JRPGs have moved on and I personally feel they are better for it. Some of the very best RPGs at the moment are coming out of Japan.

I didn't say they aren't RPG. I said they don't resemble even traditional action-based RPG after your comment pointing out traditional turn-based.

I don't think Souls games are a good indication that JRPG have moved on in the same scope as mentioning the biggest JRPG coming out now, which have little to nothing in common with Souls games.
 

JCX

Member
Some people don't like handhelds. Even if look over my handheld collect I don't think it competes with JRPG back in the day on consoles.

I think watching JRPG fall from their height on consoles and be down about it is something people can "complain" about.

Oh you can complain about it until the cows come home, still reeks of port begging since the games exist, just not on the platform you want it on.

You think I'm not bummed? The PS360 gen was a wasteland for JRPG fans. I bought a PS3 thinking "surely SE will release this on PS3!" (an L I own up to)

But you know what I did do? I bought the systems that had the games I liked, because the games mattered more to me than the systems.
 
I feel your pain OP. While there are definitely gems out there today, I miss the time where characters weren't just tropes in the majority of JRPG's. Hell, FFXV's entire party looks like a walking trope fest. I won't know for sure until I play the game, but from what I've seen it appears so; which is sad considering how great the casts from the mainline FF games used to be, (well, more often than not at least.)
 

Fencedude

Member
I always wonder what it would be like if the big JRPG studios collaborated with some western writers. The writing in JRPGs has never been good, but the advent of voice acting and the increasing focus on the niche otaku/weeb audience really took it to the next level of cringe-worthiness.

Play a game like Final Fantasy XIII or even GAF darling Trails in the Sky, then go straight to Mass Effect or Dragon Age. My reaction was "holy shit, these people are actual grown ups with functioning brains and complex inner lives and motivations." It's on a completely different level.

This is a joke post right
 

RPGam3r

Member
Oh you can complain about it until the cows come home, still reeks of port begging since the games exist, just not on the platform you want it on.

You think I'm not bummed? The PS360 gen was a wasteland for JRPG fans. I bought a PS3 thinking "surely SE will release this on PS3!" (an L I own up to)

But you know what I did do? I bought the systems that had the games I liked, because the games mattered more to me than the systems.

I don't think people want direct ports of the even the best JRPG from the handhelds. I think people want their larger scale entries that handhelds couldn't do back on consoles. That's not port begging. If anything its "genre begging".

If you don't mind portables that is fine, I do the same. I can sympathize with people who don't like them as it is uncomfortable and may not fit well with their way of life. Maybe the NX will solve this problem for everyone?
 

Paracelsus

Member
I always wonder what it would be like if the big JRPG studios collaborated with some western writers. The writing in JRPGs has never been good, but the advent of voice acting and the increasing focus on the niche otaku/weeb audience really took it to the next level of cringe-worthiness.

Play a game like Final Fantasy XIII or even GAF darling Trails in the Sky, then go straight to Mass Effect or Dragon Age. My reaction was "holy shit, these people are actual grown ups with functioning brains and complex inner lives and motivations." It's on a completely different level.

Jrpg were always meant to be shounen anime made into videogames, if anything them looking after west is what damaged them. Tryhard mature writing is the worst.
 
Yeah, current console jrpgs are a disgrace save for very few exceptions. It's a shame but you are better of playing from the psone and snes era.

"Jrpgs are dead!!11" "no I hate handheld gaming won't try11!!" Lol

Honestly, I see nothing wrong with that line of thinking.

And to make I point, imagine if suddenly all quality JRPGs moved to mobile (and I mean smartphone mobile with touch controls). I'm sure many wouldn't like. Sure, it's just an interface and doesn't mean you can't have a great game built upon that interface but it's perfectly ok to not being interested either.
 
These days, there's very little to be found in the category of high quality traditional turn-based/ATB JRPGs. There's a good bit of:

1) Sub-genres (Strategy/RPGs, Action/RPGs, Dungeon Crawler RPGS)
2) Low budget traditional JRPGs on mobile
3) Dark Souls & Monster Hunter clones
4) Unique genre-bending games (Valkyria Chronicles, TWEWY, Xenoblade)

There's little in the way of great JRPG "comfort food." And it doesn't help that there's no dominant platform for JRPGs like there was in the past (SNES/PS1/PS2).

I don't agree with that. There's three coming out in the next two weeks alone (Cold Steel II, Dragon Quest VII, and SMT IV Apocalypse). Granted, two of those are a couple of years old in Japan, but this still seems like a pretty fruitful time for traditional JRPGs. Especially when you take into account World of Final Fantasy and Pokemon Sun/Moon coming out really soon, too.

There might be fewer total traditional turn based/ATB JRPGs than during the PS1 era, but there's still a pretty large number coming out at any given time, and of a pretty high quality, too.

It is true, though, that there's no dominant platform for RPGs like the SNES, PS1, PS2 or DS this time around. The 3DS is strong, but the Vita has gotten a fair amount of them, and the PS4 is building up a library of Vita ports, too. A more fractured playerbase contributes somewhat to the feeling of RPGs not being as prevalent.
 
Jrpg were always meant to be shounen anime made into videogames, if anything them looking after west is what damaged them. Tryhard mature writing is the worst.

What is "try hard mature writing?" That's more like a narrative that did not succeed in conveying its feelings to the audience.

Also Shounen is such a terrible term for something that covers so much stuff. I disagree overall though.
 

Morrigan Stark

Arrogant Smirk
Bioware, pfft. They ain't got shit on FF Tactics and Panzer Dragoon Saga.

This is a joke post right

I don't know about you, but after spamming X amount of gifts to my crush, they suddenly want to have sex with me. It's guaranteed. Then we never talk again and our relationship is perfectly healthy.
 

petran79

Banned
I can never fully understand this. People don't watch every film in the IMAX, hell people often watch blockbusters on a relatively tiny television screen. An argument that I can agree with is comfortability and hand size, which is why I don't play RPGs on mobile even though many have been ported there, but I personally believe that if people give portable gaming a chance they'll be able to appreciate that an epic adventure is entirely possible on a small screen. Though the size can take away from the "epic" feeling, as illustrated earlier there are benefits that cancel out or even outweigh this, such as the intimacy of playing a portable game due to the short distances. I'm wondering if you've ever tried altering your portable habits and seeing if it works (in which case it's just a personal preference I don't share), or if this is just due to the stigma of portables?

It is just that portable consoles started mainly as a surrogate of desktop consoles, not a replacement. I'd never have imagined that with the advent of 3D, whole genres would abandon desktop console space and move to portables. I would not mind portable games, as long as there was a desktop console or computer version too.

I mean I enjoyed games like Ecclesia and Professor Layton on the NDS but I know that Bloodstained is the way the game should be played.
 

Zolo

Member
Bioware's strength has always been in characters, but as has been mentioned, they still have the weakness of basically making Whedon-type characters and dialing it to 11 as well as falling into the trap of every self-insert RPG of having almost every character worship the ground you walk on (Exaggeration). Their weakness has always been story which is what Obsidian's big strength has always been. I actually suspect this is one of the reasons why Mass Effect 3's ending was so hated
since their mediocre story got in the way of the characters the audience actually liked
.
 
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