Support NeoGAF

[Creaking]

Gotta disagree on the "more violence" thing, leave that stuff in Mortal Kombat. And hell no to the return of the breaking armor pandering bullshit too. Glad they dropped that along with the overall stepping back from the fanservice ledge a bit in V. It was getting ridiculous.

Uh... but they didn't? Armor breaking is still in V. I'd argue it's implementation is even worse there, since it's one big break, rather than being sectional.

The idea isn't inherently bad, but the degree to which it occurs should be in the hands of the player. Allow players to disable it completely clientside, and also allow them to--when creating/customizing a character--set which sections of armor can or can't be destroyed. That way you can play with the system enabled, but make it so your character never ends up in nothing but lingerie.

 

[AlphaDragoon]

Uh... but they didn't? Armor breaking is still in V. I'd argue it's implementation is even worse there, since it's one big break, rather than being sectional.

The idea isn't inherently bad, but the degree to which it occurs should be in the hands of the player. Allow players to disable it completely clientside, and also allow them to--when creating/customizing a character--set which sections of armor can or can't be destroyed. That way you can play with the system enabled, but make it so your character never ends up in nothing but lingerie.

You're right, I forgot it was still in there. Was thinking of the MK finisher Critical Edge thing which got dropped.

But yeah, they need to sack the breaking armor.

 

[OmegaSmash]

If this is for character suggestions, then all I want is for them to bring back Zasalamel and keep SCV Nightmare and Cervantes.

 

[Hours Left]

Uh... but they didn't? Armor breaking is still in V. I'd argue it's implementation is even worse there, since it's one big break, rather than being sectional.

The idea isn't inherently bad, but the degree to which it occurs should be in the hands of the player. Allow players to disable it completely clientside, and also allow them to--when creating/customizing a character--set which sections of armor can or can't be destroyed. That way you can play with the system enabled, but make it so your character never ends up in nothing but lingerie.

I really love the armor breaking system as a concept, it's fun (and *gasp* sexy!) but they still haven't got it quite right yet. I agree that it was better in SCIV due to it being sectional (which they went back to mostly in Lost Swords), and I see you agree with my idea of the ability to toggle armor piece by piece for what can break.

I think it would add a lot more creativity to making custom/CaS costumes. Sometimes I might want to see my character in just a fundoshi, but other times maybe not, etc. And for the people that don't like the armor breaking, they can just turn it off completely. Everybody wins that way.

 

[AAK]

I'd rather not turn Soul Calibur into Mortal Kombat thank you very much

Gotta disagree on the "more violence" thing, leave that stuff in Mortal Kombat.

My inspiration wasn't Mortal Kombat at all. I'm thinking much more in terms of Samurai Showdown.

But in the end, it's already a very violent game with realistic weapons and realistic animations depicting the uses of the weapons. For a fighting game that specializes in such detail with its graphics I just thought they could take it a step further with damage modeling.

 

[Erigu]

I have to disagree here would rather they keep that out of the games.

Yeah. It worked in the Samurai Spirits series (and even then, only in the 2D installments), but I really don't want the Soul series to go there.

 

[TreIII]

But in the end, it's already a very violent game with realistic weapons and realistic animations depicting the uses of the weapons. For a fighting game that specializes in such detail with its graphics I just thought they could take it a step further with damage modeling.

Eh. It would've been one thing if this series started that off from the jump with a "bloody" tone, like Samurai Shodown did (which even there eventually got toned down as games progressed, barring the console port of Edge of Destiny). But the Soul series, for all the ghastly lore, murderous rampage-laden backstories and Soul-sucking that goes about, never went to that extent in actual gameplay. And it's an aesthetic that works, in my opinion.

I'd rather they'd focus on the spectacle in another respect. SC5 was off to to a good start with making things look more visually impressive, but I want the attacks to have that sense of impact that makes you go "OOO, THAT'S GOTTA HURT".

 

[AAK]

To me there was no violence because of the technical limitations. There was no self-shadowing or Motion Blur either in the previous installments but added later to improve the presentation. I'm just extending that to the damage models that would improve the overall aesthetic. Again, violence doesn't mean gore porn. It can just be limited to your typical shonen style.

Doesn't need the dripping, but signs of physical damage can go a long way. But alas, I respect other people's opinion and understand that I'm in a minority.

 

[Hours Left]

The most I'd be okay with in regards to SC is the addition of sweat/dirt and maybe some light scratches/bruising.

I think that's another thing that the armor destruction brings to the game, it creates more impact. But it just hasn't been handled properly yet. In addition to the individual pieces breaking for custom outfits/CaS, I think they also should do a better job have having unique battle damaged versions for the different default costumes as the battles progress. Something they've only dabbled with so far.

 

[SiegfriedFM]

Hell no to "realistic" damage. Samurai Shodown Sen was sickening.

 

[Jay Shadow]

ZWEI's gameplay definitely needs some tweaking, but I really hope he returns in the next game, because his design is amazing.

They generally don't drop someone after one game, they usually just revamp them if they weren't working quite right in their debut. Hell, they brought Algol back wielding a chair. Who the hell saw that coming?

 

[Hours Left]

They generally don't drop someone after one game, they usually just revamp them if they weren't working quite right in their debut. Hell, they brought Algol back wielding a chair. Who the hell saw that coming?

I hope so. I'm glad Algol was brought back, he's my favorite boss character. (Well, Cervantes maybe has him beat, just by a bit.)

I'm just worried that ZWEI and Viola will be lost in the shuffle, and that would really be a shame because they were definitely the best part of SCV IMO.

 

[TheBryanJZX90]

I just wish everyone didn't have raccoon eyes

 

[Creaking]

To me there was no violence because of the technical limitations. There was no self-shadowing or Motion Blur either in the previous installments but added later to improve the presentation. I'm just extending that to the damage models that would improve the overall aesthetic. Again, violence doesn't mean gore porn. It can just be limited to your typical shonen style.

Doesn't need the dripping, but signs of physical damage can go a long way. But alas, I respect other people's opinion and understand that I'm in a minority.

I certainly wouldn't mind it, although I doubt it'd ever happen. SoulCalibur has been pushing that porcelain doll look since IV at least. Scratches, blood and other assorted boo-boos would tarnish that look.


Plus, if people are getting bruised and bloodied, it's harder to justify the "pure" characters or characters who are just trying to have some fun.

I certainly wouldn't mind that aspect being reduced.

 

[Pachimari]

If they announce Soul Calibur VI, then it'll be the first one I play since Soul Calibur 1 on Dreamcast. And I can't wait to get back!

Give me Talim please.

 

[Kimosabae]

Why the fuck do you want Talim back if you've never even played the character???

 

[Pachimari]

Why the fuck do you want Talim back if you've never even played the character???

She's Filipina. And I love my Filipino characters. Just like I am going to main Josie in Tekken 7.
I also like her fighting style in the YouTube videos.

 

[Master Thespian]

I'd love it if they would change the aesthetic completely. Leave the doll look to the other 3d fighters and have CC2 make a graphics engine that brings Takaji Kawano's character artwork to life similar to what they did with Jojo's ASB.

As for characters:
SC4 non guest roster
-Amy/Lizardman/Rock
+Viola/Aeon/Bangoo/ZWEI/Patroklos/Dampierre with some Ezio moves

PS - If you hate Pattycakes you're a terrible human being.

 

[Freshmaker]

Need a Belmont for a guest character.

 

[AAK]

Hell no to "realistic" damage. Samurai Shodown Sen was sickening.

Samurai Shodown Sen is also in a completely different stratosphere to Soul Calibur's quality. There were countless other presentation things they needed to improve before implementing violence in any meaningful way.

 

[DrDogg]

Yeah, but she doesn't routinely win tournaments. Spacing her out is one of the best ways to deal with her. Her 3B range is poor, and she doesn't really have a punishment game. So you can pressure her if you stay out of her ideal range.

Meh. She still gets dealt with.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R38GWjcsqNQ


Yeah. He has gimmicks and not much else.

Not sure what you're getting at by showing me that video. Does LP even main Viola? Last I checked he was playing aPat as his main. Even if Viola is his main now, it's a match against Lolo (who seems to have dropped Yoshi for Asta) at Final Round... some 2 years after the game died.

Certainly not a good indication that Viola isn't difficult to deal with. Again, she can be beaten, but that doesn't mean she should simply stay the way she is.

 

[YoungOne]

Not sure what you're getting at by showing me that video. Does LP even main Viola? Last I checked he was playing aPat as his main. Even if Viola is his main now, it's a match against Lolo (who seems to have dropped Yoshi for Asta) at Final Round... some 2 years after the game died.

Certainly not a good indication that Viola isn't difficult to deal with. Again, she can be beaten, but that doesn't mean she should simply stay the way she is.

He is a viola main.

 

[Freshmaker]

Not sure what you're getting at by showing me that video. Does LP even main Viola? Last I checked he was playing aPat as his main.

Last you paid attention was that First Evo.

He's been playing Viola for years.

Even if Viola is his main now, it's a match against Lolo (who seems to have dropped Yoshi for Asta) at Final Round... some 2 years after the game died.

Lolo plays both. Just because movement got changed and you ran back to DOA doesn't mean the game's been dead since you wandered off.

Certainly not a good indication that Viola isn't difficult to deal with. Again, she can be beaten, but that doesn't mean she should simply stay the way she is.

Still not broken.

 

[TreIII]

I'd love it if they would change the aesthetic completely. Leave the doll look to the other 3d fighters and have CC2 make a graphics engine that brings Takaji Kawano's character artwork to life similar to what they did with Jojo's ASB.

As for characters:
SC4 non guest roster
-Amy/Lizardman/Rock
+Viola/Aeon/Bangoo/ZWEI/Patroklos/Dampierre with some Ezio moves

PS - If you hate Pattycakes you're a terrible human being.

Throw in Hwang and Li Long for old time's sake too, and I'm gravy.

But yeah, it's been time for them to upgrade the overall art style. It's never done Kawano's style justice, and it would just help realize the overall fantastical world that much better. And if nothing else, further put distance between SC and Tekken.

 

[DrDogg]

Last you paid attention was that First Evo.

He's been playing Viola for years.

Lolo plays both. Just because movement got changed and you ran back to DOA doesn't mean the game's been dead since you wandered off.

Still not broken.

Really? A bit early to be swinging insults. Sorry that I don't keep up with LP's main over the years, but there's no need for that kind of attitude here man. If you think SC5 is anything but dead, I don't know what to tell you. It's barely featured at majors and has minimal presence in most local scenes. That's dead in my book. Sorry if you feel otherwise, but that's still no reason to lash out like that.

While I preferred how the game played pre-patch, I didn't really care about the backdash nerf. It didn't impact my game all that much and SC5 is still my favorite fighter of the last generation. I stopped playing because the only person in my area that continued to play was Kinetic Clash (who won Evo 2013 with Viola btw).

I played quite a bit of Kinetic Clash's Viola as well as his Ivy. Bottom line, Viola is much harder to deal with. I never said she was broken. Even the statement you quoted doesn't indicate I think she's broken. I simply don't feel she needs the block string pressure she currently has. Instead of defending your position you decided to sling some dirt in my direction. Typical FGC response...

And for the record, I don't play DOA hardly at all and never "ran back to it". I covered it for work, played it at SCR 2013 and basically haven't touched it since. In fact, the only DOA I've played in the past 2.5 years was Winter Brawl 9, which I was covering for work (I also played SC5 and KI there) and a recent local tournament that I was attending for MKX.

 

[Freshmaker]

Really? A bit early to be swinging insults.

Insults? You followed the game a few months at best if you don't know LP played Viola.

If you think SC5 is anything but dead, I don't know what to tell you. It's barely featured at majors and has minimal presence in most local scenes.

Honestly it does about as well as any 3d fighter these days. Much stronger on the EC than anywhere else though.

Also, NEC has a rather large pot bonus for SCV this year. http://8wayrun.com/threads/necxvi-and-its-pot-bonus.18864/

So dead games apparently unaccountably get money thrown at them.

That's dead in my book. Sorry if you feel otherwise, but that's still no reason to lash out like that.

Lashing out isn't what I'd call a basic observation. LP was maining Viola in MLG. (Also when by your assertion, SC was already dead.)

It's not like you havne't been rather dismissive of SC for years though. I still remember your "DOA4 looks great, SCIV is impossible to watch" article.

While I preferred how the game played pre-patch, I didn't really care about the backdash nerf. It didn't impact my game all that much and SC5 is still my favorite fighter of the last generation. I stopped playing because the only person in my area that continued to play was Kinetic Clash (who won Evo 2013 with Viola btw).

Yeah, I was at Evo 2013.

And for the record, I don't play DOA hardly at all and never "ran back to it". I covered it for work, played it at SCR 2013 and basically haven't touched it since. In fact, the only DOA I've played in the past 2.5 years was Winter Brawl 9, which I was covering for work (I also played SC5 and KI there) and a recent local tournament that I was attending for MKX.

Yeah I was at WB9 too. I chiefly remember you popping up in SCV threads to complain about movement etc than vanishing though.

 

[Unknown Soldier]

Not gameplay related but I'll be honest, if there is one thing I'd want more than anything from a Soul Calibur sequel is for them to embrace the M rating to improve the presentation. The graphics are so good now, that the teen violence is so off putting. The characters look so realistic that when they are pierced and bludgened with swords and axes carrying no physical damages makes it quite the detriment to aesthetic. You can see a match in SCV and then when a throw like this happens:

It kinda breaks the immersion for me. They don't have to go all out crazy like Mortal Kombat 9, but at least some sort of stab wound would do wonders to improve the presentation IMO.

I always thought the way you could run someone through or split their heads open with an axe, and then they would just get up and keep fighting was part of the charm of Soulcalibur...

 

[ZeroTheShadow]

I don't want another Soul Calibur. Series is past the point of redemption. There are official more bad Soul games then there are good ones.

 

[alstein]

You could say the same about many other franchises, including SF.

 

[Freshmaker]

I don't want another Soul Calibur. Series is past the point of redemption. There are official more bad Soul games then there are good ones.

SC Legends and SC Lost Swords are the bad ones.

Maybe that card game thing that's already dead.

I'd be interested to head your list of the bad games. Your'e DQ'ed though if you list SCV.

 

[Golnei]

I'd love it if they would change the aesthetic completely. Leave the doll look to the other 3d fighters and have CC2 make a graphics engine that brings Takaji Kawano's character artwork to life similar to what they did with Jojo's ASB.

It'd be fantastic if they could achieve that - while I loved the actual artwork from 2 onwards, the ingame representation of it has always fallen short. I doubt they'd want to deviate from their established aesthetic at this point, though - especially considering the recent Tekken entries haven't been making any significant changes to their overall visual style.

 

[Creaking]

I don't want another Soul Calibur. Series is past the point of redemption. There are official more bad Soul games then there are good ones.

It's never too late for franchise redemption.

 

[BossRush]

Voted Yoshi cause I like Yoshi.

Really glad a lot of people love Talim though, also glad people hate patrokolos

 

[sixteen-bit]

I always thought the way you could run someone through or split their heads open with an axe, and then they would just get up and keep fighting was part of the charm of Soulcalibur...

Maybe their "souls" are fighting, not their bodies

I think MK is a bad comparison b/c lots of grappling moves and X-Ray combos would kill a person too and they get right back up.

 

[Creaking]

Last day to vote is either today or tomorrow. They say it ends on the 31st, but don't specify the exact timing.

 

[tiggerkiddo]

Give me back Amy or Talim. Would really prefer Xianghua but Leixia was a worthy enough successor.

 

[alstein]

SC Legends and SC Lost Swords are the bad ones.

Maybe that card game thing that's already dead.

I'd be interested to head your list of the bad games. Your'e DQ'ed though if you list SCV.

SCV was a mixed bag- a lot of good things for competitive players, a couple of questionable design decisions gameplay-wise, and not very good for casual players. I can understand why some folks would consider it bad, even if I considered it ok. (I still think SC3AE is best SC)

 

[AAK]

I always thought the way you could run someone through or split their heads open with an axe, and then they would just get up and keep fighting was part of the charm of Soulcalibur...

Ummmm, that is exactly what's happening on screen.

 

[Freshmaker]

SCV was a mixed bag- a lot of good things for competitive players, a couple of questionable design decisions gameplay-wise, and not very good for casual players. I can understand why some folks would consider it bad, even if I considered it ok. (I still think SC3AE is best SC)

I'm not especially fond of SC2. Wouldn't call it bad tho.

 

[DrDogg]

Insults? You followed the game a few months at best if you don't know LP played Viola.

Yeah, insults. Saying I ran off to DOA when I don't even consider myself a DOA player and DOA has absolutely nothing to do with this conversation.

As for LP, I don't really keep a close eye on what other players are doing unless they play characters that I main. I remembered LP playing aPat. Now that you mention it, I do recall him playing Viola at MLG (I was at MLG Anaheim and played SC5 there), but I didn't remember it when I watched that video you linked. Sorry I don't have a great memory when it comes to who competitive SC players used 2 years ago.

Honestly it does about as well as any 3d fighter these days. Much stronger on the EC than anywhere else though.

Also, NEC has a rather large pot bonus for SCV this year. http://8wayrun.com/threads/necxvi-and-its-pot-bonus.18864/

So dead games apparently unaccountably get money thrown at them.

Yeah they do. DOA has a $3k pot bonus and Tekken has had several pot bonuses lately. It doesn't take much to throw money at a game, especially if you're trying to revive a scene. Compare the $2250 pot bonus on SC5 (with a 128 entry requirement) to the $50k going to KI at Evo or even the $15k bonus to MKX and SF4, and $10k for KI at CEO.

BigE has always been a great supporter of Namco fighters which is why I try to attend his tournaments even though I'm west coast. Wasn't the SC5 tournament at WB9 free to enter with a pot bonus and still only got 60-some players?

It's not like you havne't been rather dismissive of SC for years though. I still remember your "DOA4 looks great, SCIV is impossible to watch" article.

Really? You seem to have quite the vested interest in me. First saying I ran off to DOA and now bringing up an article that must've been written back in 2009 or something. I don't even remember this article. Would you happen to have a link? I have a hard time believing I would think DOA4 is more entertaining to watch than SC4. I must've had some other angle if I made that kind of statement.

Yeah I was at WB9 too. I chiefly remember you popping up in SCV threads to complain about movement etc than vanishing though.

As I recall, a lot of people complained about movement and dropped the game. I continued to play until my local scene died. I posted a lot on 8WR, in fact I just searched through my posts on 8WR.

The patch hit in March and I was actively posting through late July. I made a few posts in the patch threads, none of which mention any complaints about the backdash nerf. In fact, all I see are complaints about Yoshi not getting buffs and ZWEI getting buffs that didn't matter. Nothing about backdashing...

Maybe you have me confused with someone else here...?

 

[Archpath1]

Incoming Moba

I miss some soul caliber

 

[Freshmaker]

Yeah, insults. Saying I ran off to DOA when I don't even consider myself a DOA player and DOA has absolutely nothing to do with this conversation.

It does when you try to present yourself as an expert on the game when you don't play it or pay attention to the scene.

Sorry I don't have a great memory when it comes to who competitive SC players used 2 years ago.

Kinda silly to respond to a video of LP playing Viola with "LP doesn't use Viola." then.

The patch hit in March and I was actively posting through late July. I made a few posts in the patch threads, none of which mention any complaints about the backdash nerf. In fact, all I see are complaints about Yoshi not getting buffs and ZWEI getting buffs that didn't matter. Nothing about backdashing...

Maybe you have me confused with someone else here...?

I'm talking about on GAF.

 

[Hours Left]

Get in those last votes for Hwang, Rock, Li Long, ZWEI and Algol folks. You know it's what your heart is telling you.

 

[Roto13]

Hwang is a nothing character.

 

[Hours Left]

Hwang is an amazing character.

FTFY

 

[Creaking]

Yo, Lizardman needs love.

He's Xianghua except too bland to be annoying.

Xianghua? Don't you mean Yun Seong?

 

[Roto13]

FTFY

He's Xianghua except too bland to be annoying.

 

[Hours Left]

He's Xianghua except too bland to be annoying.

He predates both of them though, and has an awesome design. He's really fun to play as too.

Silver fox Hwang for SCVI please.

 

[Roto13]

He predates both of them though, and has an awesome design. He's really fun to play as too.

Silver fox Hwang for SCVI please.

"Generic sword guy" is not an awesome design.

 

[Hours Left]

"Generic sword guy" is not an awesome design.

But he's not generic. His fighting style is one of the most unique I've seen in a fighting game, and how often do we see a Korean coast guard gaming? He's the first.

Mitsurugi and Siegfried are much more generic concepts than him. (Though I like them both too.)