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[Pejo]

I almost have everything in the game and couldn't be happier.

Screw the grind! I have the freedom to play how I want and whenever I want!

All hail Bungie!

:hail:

I see these posts from time to time, and it's an interesting angle.

You're making the people that don't want to play the game happy.

Meanwhile the people that want to play the game have nothing to do.

Me personally, I got to ~300 LL, I log in 1-2 times a week to do the weekly stuff for gear improvements, then out til the next week. I mean that's fine, but if the first game would have been like this I'd never have the memories I do with it.

 

[CookTrain]

Wow, the people who were shitting on lootboxes, saying they'd hurt the game's balance as well as the endgame content, were right... What a shock.

Yeah, the game is so ridiculously unbalanced that I can choose to pay to get... a marginally... faster... spa..

What are you on about?

 

[SlimySnake]

I have no fucking idea why people think we want the same RNG rolls system. Why couldn't it be made better? Isn't that what sequels do? Improve?

They got rid of so many systems from Destiny 1 expansions that just worked. They werent perfect and i completely understand not getting the perfect roll on your palindrome but all you had to do was run the nightfall again. It gave you a reason to replay the game's toughest challenge and made it rewarding after you hit max level.

Why couldn't they have added perks instead of mods as the end game glimmer dump. Diablo does it. Warframe does it. Every rpg ever does it. Let us pick the perks on our weapons by buying them from in game currency.

Right now there is no in game economy. It's so simple it was designed not for cod casuals but for people who don't ever play video games. It's a loot game where getting loot isn't exciting. Diablo dropped weapons at higher dps, extra mod slots and perks that helped your playstyle. Then let you modify it using in game currency. There is none of that here.

There is zero reason to run strikes, do adventures or lost sectors after hitting 265. Zero. Why? Because casuals don't like the fact that they can't do hard content in the game so now everyone else to suffer for the two casual Cunts who are inevitably going to move on to the next big shooter that comes out.

I'm sure Bungie will fix all of this when the expansions drop because they know it's only the hardcore who will buy their dlc. But man screw them for releasing the game in this state to people who paid $230 over the course of three years to support their games. Absolutely disgusting.

 

[Razzmatazzer]

I think players who work full time just cant put the time in to deal with RNG loot. D2 is fine.

D1 required you to play Destiny as a job, and to get good stuff you needed to be free to play numerous hours every day and all weekend. That to me is unhealthy.

Required? It's amazing how exaggerated this "god roll" grind has become... Such nonsense

 

[Mikey Jr.]

I sold it last Saturday.

Debated if what I was doing was the right thing. Would I miss it? Would I miss doing the milestones every Tuesday? Missing Xur every Friday?

.....

Yeah, I'm fine actually. Don't miss it at all. My character is in a good place right now. Level 303.

In my mind, I "beat" Destiny 2. So there really isn't any reason for me to hang on to the game.
In contrast, I still have my original Destiny 1 disc. I think that says a lot.

 

[Griss]

These kinds of critiques always make me feel like game designers are caught between two poles when it comes to this kind of game design - make an endless treadmill that players like this want to be on so that the 100s of hours they put in can have constant 'meaning' in the form of new loot and rising numbers but one that would alientate more casual players with less time OR make a game where getting to 'max power' or what have you is actually attainable in a reasonable timeframe, which ruins the game for people like this who want the game to be a lifestyle.

The guy himself puts it best:

Bear in mind, I am one of those guys that play too much and so are my friends. This game does not work for that attitude at all, unfortunately for us.

Bungie have moved in a different direction, one that would work much better for players like me. I don't think you can satisfy both kinds 100%.

Just want to throw in the perspective of a casual Destiny 2 player who plays a few nights a week. I can usually get my friends all together to play once a week, at most.

The game is very fun, and I enjoy that I don't have to do end game content to get to 305. Even so, I'm not going to get to 305 anytime soon--maybe never. Not sure I'll ever have the time or inclination to do the raid.

I like that things are simpler. I like the balance. I like the more open world. I even like Crucible. None of this top player, end-game stuff means anything to me. This stuff always reads like evidence that the writer should move on and play different games, because they've hit an enjoyment wall. That's fine. That's normal.

Every time I play now, I make a little progress. That feels good. If I do hit the cap, it won't really change my play behavior much--I'll just be ready for Nightfalls when my friends are.

Exactly. Especially the bolded.

 

[TyrantII]

Already noticing a drop off on my friends list. People are putting the game down, and that's a list that survived the worst D1 threw at us.

That doesn't bode well for the longevity.

Remember, most "casuals" (whatever that means) won't get to or ever worry about the end game. Most of them will lose interest, and most will not be back for the DLCs. They'll be back from their pre-end game fond memories of D2 when a big shiney 3 is plastered on a E3 presentation. Bungie actually did a fantastic job of fixing the issues with the content they'll be likely to experience.

Meanwhile the player base will shrink and shrink trying to please a phantom group that isnt there and won't be back for a good while.

Now, that's not to say Bungie should take actions that might negativity effect "casuals" sticking around, or new players jumping in.

But, they need to drastically rethink their end game progression and use of content. This isn't the FPS Looter MMO/RPG they promised, and is a huge step back from TTK or RoI.

If they want this to be just another generic shooter you play for 3 months, so be it. But the numbers will dwindle untill the next major release and some of us will hang up our gjallarhorns.

 

[Mossybrew]

I sunk hundreds of hours into the original but I'm pretty much done with Destiny 2 and focusing on other games. I've been dropping in for a couple hours the last two weeks just to do the milestones but at this point I'm wondering why even bother.

Unless there are some major endgame shakeups with the next expansion content, I won't be interested.

 

[void666]

Hardcore players kept their game relevant for 3 years.

Now Bungie says

- You can go home now
- But...
- Just leave!

 

[JWiLL]

Right now there is no in game economy. It's so simple it was designed not for cod casuals but for people who don't ever play video games. It's a loot game where getting loot isn't exciting. Diablo dropped weapons at higher dps, extra mod slots and perks that helped your playstyle. Then let you modify it using in game currency. There is none of that here.

Yeah...this right here is my biggest problem. Destiny 1 was already pretty damn simple in terms of it's in game systems - and they stripped that down even further.

The systems for elements, perks, mods, etc. are so god damn basic. I get that the game needs to be accessible, but you can still have some depth there without it being overwhelming. There's literally nothing right now.

I REALLY don't understand why they stripped down the class builds so much instead of building on them. Pick from one of these 2 options - yay?

 

[E92 M3]

I see these posts from time to time, and it's an interesting angle.

You're making the people that don't want to play the game happy.

Meanwhile the people that want to play the game have nothing to do.

Me personally, I got to ~300 LL, I log in 1-2 times a week to do the weekly stuff for gear improvements, then out til the next week. I mean that's fine, but if the first game would have been like this I'd never have the memories I do with it.

I play almost every day, just enjoy not being forced to grind for good weapons. The actual game is fun to play - I don't need to keep getting loot to keep me entertained.

 

[The ๖ۜBronx]

These kinds of critiques always make me feel like game designers are caught between two poles when it comes to this kind of game design - make an endless treadmill that players like this want to be on so that the 100s of hours they put in can have constant 'meaning' in the form of new loot and rising numbers but one that would alientate more casual players with less time OR make a game where getting to 'max power' or what have you is actually attainable in a reasonable timeframe, which ruins the game for people like this who want the game to be a lifestyle.

We're talking about ~50hrs before you step into these issues, unless you're creating more than one character. It's not quite the case of the 1% as I mentioned in the OP, it's more that the end game doesn't really exist and there's little reason to go from 280 to 305 other than bumping the number up. You don't gain more power, access to more weapons or new activities (beyond the nightfall with less time, and the raid with modifiers).

I play almost every day, just enjoy not being forced to grind for good weapons. The actual game is fun to play - I don't need to keep getting loot to keep me entertained.

The problem stems from the fact that you're saying this about a loot game. I don't need it either; I'm still playing. I'd much rather have fun gameplay and quality loot mechanics. It's really not a case of either or.

 

[hydruxo]

First 3 weeks were great. I enjoyed it and having it rain loot all the time was awesome. Now though? Why even log on, there's nothing to chase anymore. The raid rewards are nothing special either.

 

[TyrantII]

This stuff always reads like evidence that the writer should move on and play different games, because they've hit an enjoyment wall. That's fine. That's normal.

Destiny had a enjoyment wall of 1000's of hours for their dedicated base. You're seeing complaints because at 40-80, they're already hitting it.

And you will too eventually. I don't think unreasonable people expected the sequel to hit the same numbers, but do so with better design.

After all, that's what Bungie has promised since... Forever. If Bungie wants the change, they should have been crystal clear that they're.making just another FPS, not the MMO/RPG take on a looter.

 

[killroy87]

Hasn't Luke Smith gone on record saying Destiny was never meant to be a game to be played endlessly like an MMO? I could have sworn that was in a tweet or interview or something.

It's cool that people love the game enough to want endless content, but what if the game is designed to just pop in a couple times a week?

 

[Kamina]

I absolutely agree with the weak endgame, and the lack of rolls as well as constant “balance”.
Reached 305 today, will stick to Iron Banner until the the end of the week. Then i will be on holoday andyway and once i return Mario Odyssey and Assassins Creed Origins will entertain me. So i am not too sad. I hope that when i return to Destiny in December things will be better.

 

[ethomaz]

I have no idea what you're talking about. I played Destiny since it came out and only started to really enjoy it with House of Wolves. Most of my favorite armor sets and moments came AFTER vanilla.

How is Oryx not a "memorable" raid boss? The hidden Taken King quests. The game finally having a good campaign?

If you think only vanilla Destiny had good armor "places" I dunno what to tell you. That's crazy.

I don’t know what to tell you but yeap... even Bungie saw that and being all vanilla gears after second year.

The exotics you use in Destiny even today are from vanilla.

What expansions added? The best guns are still the vanilla guns... that they nerfed to hell to try to “balance” lol PVP in vanilla was tons of fun over what we have today.

Vanilla Destiny is still the best Destiny experience.

 

[Pejo]

I play almost every day, just enjoy not being forced to grind for good weapons. The actual game is fun to play - I don't need to keep getting loot to keep me entertained.

Serious question then, what exactly is keeping you playing? Just the gunplay?

 

[Dynasty8]

Posted this a few days back...it's similar to how I feel:

I agree with the criticism many fans are having... once they reach max level, there is really no more meaningful progression left in the game. They hit a roadblock.

There are two sides to this argument as I see:

1. It's a benefit to new players because removing the grind allows the new people to join up and be raid ready MUCH quicker to play with their high level friends. Example: We are all 300 and raid ready. Our friend just started the game and he was able to hit 275 in less than a week and be ready to join us on all our events including nightfalls and the raid. Cool, Bungie made it more accessible for those who don't have much time. I can't argue against this since our friend now doesn't feel left behind. I actually applaud Bungie for this.

2. It does kinda sucks for those hardcore time sinkers like myself. Reaching the soft cap isn't very hard to do IMHO...and once you do, almost everything from a progression standpoint is meaningless. So if I'm PL305, all legendary engrams are pretty much useless, all faction gear and tokens are useless (I don't care much about fashion destiny), all public events are useless, all lost sectors are useless, etc. The ONLY thing we have to maybe push us one PL higher are the once a week milestones.

I totally understand both sides of the argument here. I think Bungie has done a phenomenal job with the game overall with the campaign, story, gameplay, music, level design...the list just goes on. But the sad truth is, some of us don't want to let go of this game so quickly...we REALLY enjoy playing it, socializing, and discovering new shit with our friends while trying to actively progress and make our characters stronger. But again... the problem is that we are no longer progressing. Once our power levels are high enough, we are basically playing a slot machine by turning in faction tokens and weak engrams.

It's exactly like Luke Smith said: "one of the biggest problems are that people will always play through the content much faster than we can create new content".


I totally understand that and applaud all the hard working developers. I do think there is a solution that can improve the progression and can cater to both groups I listed above...

Allow additional areas where the hardcore fans can continue leveling up without making our constant playtime feel totally useless...and that solution is bringing back the overall Grimoire Score and overall Faction Level/Rank system, but add some real life and meaning into it this time. Not only will we have In-game grimoire cards, but they will slowly be unlocked after a few faction level/rank ups...but most importantly, we will earn exclusive rewards by turning in those tokens to each faction and hitting a certain level (in conjunction to what we're already getting). A bit confused?

Well... you guys remember Destiny 1's faction rank system? Say I would try to rank up with Dead Orbit by turning in Motes of Light. I would always get Dead Orbit related gear... However, in Destiny 1, after reaching rank 25, Dead Orbit rewards you with an exclusive class item that can ONLY be obtained by reaching level/rank 25 with that specific faction. After that, it was all basically meaningless. For Destiny 2, let's fix that and improve the longevity and meaningful progression... Here are my ideas:


Gunsmith: Banshee
Every 100 level/rank ups with the Gunsmith, a new exotic gun quest becomes available. After 100 more level/rank ups, another new exotic quest. All these quests can be similar to the Gjallarhorn quest from Rise of Iron...where you find out a little bit more about the lore of a certain weapon through a small mission before obtaining it along with an emblem that tracks kills dedicated to that weapon. Eventually we can even see things like Exotic mods that have some unique features. This will also increase your Grimoire score and unlock related grimoire cards to things like Suros, Omolon, Hakke, etc.

Factions: New Monarchy, FWC, and Dead Orbit
Every 25 level/rank ups with a specific faction, you get to do a specific faction quest that dives deep into the lore of that specific faction and adds to the grimoire score. Every 25 level ups after that will allow you to learn even more about that faction, the history, some of the characters, and earn some cool exotic class items (cape for a hunter, etc).


Vanguard: Zavala, Ikora, Cayde
Every 25 level/rank ups with Zavala, you unlock very challenging heroic/prestige versions of a strike with some cool new changes and exclusive rewards.

Every 25 level/rank ups with Ikora can open a very challenging version of a campaign story mission (time based with anomalies, etc). Reward will be unique gear that helps with strikes (ex: boots that don't slow you down in electricity in exodus down, armor that reduces damage from shriekers for the Titan strike, etc)

For Cayde, after finding about 10 of his hidden chests, he will give you a skeleton key that can be used for Zavala's heroic strikes. All of this will work in conjunction together and will also add to the overall Grimoire score while unlocking grimoire cards for certain Titans, Warlocks, Hunters.

Eververse: Bright Engrams
Every 25 level/rank ups with Eververse, opens a new small questline for your character class that will unlock a new path for your subclass. Currently there are two paths for each subclass. Arcstrider hunters for example have "Way of the Warrior" and "Way of the Wind". Once we reach this 25 rank goal with Eververse, unlock at least one extra path or something... For example, "Way of the Assassin" for the Arcstrider. 25 levels after that, a new path for Gunslinger...then 25 more after that, new Path for Nightstalker. This will truly make us feel like we're progressing and it's all paying off. (This doesn't have to a significant advantage in PvP).

Raid
Once you level/rank up 10 times using the Raid tokens, the Leviathan opens up as a mini patrol area with some awesome new challenges (a prison of elders defend mode in the Castellum) with exclusive loot with unique perks to the raids.

Planetary Factions
Every 50 EDZ level/rank ups will unlock a new cool Adventure on that specific planet, add to Grimoire, unlock grimoire cards about the EDZ, Devrim, and other related stuff.

Every 50 Titan level/rank ups will unlock a new cool Adventure on that specific planet, add to Grimoire, unlock grimoire cards about Titan, Sloane, and other related stuff.

Every 50 Nessus level/rank ups will unlock a new cool Adventure on that specific planet, add to Grimoire, unlock grimoire cards about Nessus, Failsafe/Exodus Black, and other related stuff.

Every 50 IO level/rank ups will unlock a new cool Adventure on that specific planet, add to Grimoire, unlock grimoire cards about the IO, Asher, and other related stuff.



Crucible Faction
Every 25 level/rank ups with Shaxx, he will give the player exclusive new exotic weapon skin/exotic shader, emote, emblem, and ghost. True, this isn't that rewarding as the rest, but seeing how frustrating PvP can be for some people, I personally think sticking to only cosmetics wouldn't be so bad. Plus, just like everything else, it'll add to the overall Grimoire score and unlock grimoire cards related to the Crucible, the PvP maps, the Redjacks, Shaxx, etc...


For the record, the level system still exists using third party apps: http://destinytracker.com/ (enter your PSN ID or GamerTag and you'll see what level you are with each faction.


Hope you guys get the idea. But very importantly, all this isn't meant to give the players who are far higher rank in every faction a significant advantage in something like PvP. As I mentioned earlier, the whole point Bungie is trying to get across is so that everyone can have fun together. Even if you're a new player who has only played 20 hours and are PL265, you should still be able to play with your friends who have invested 200 hours and are PL300 and have fun. I applaud Bungie for this, but I also think it would be very satisfying and awesome if we hardcore fans who play almost daily can get rewarded for reaching certain heights with things like exclusive lore, exclusive new adventures/quests, and exclusive PvE gear that cannot be obtained through random engrams. Much love, GAF, Bungie, and Destiny fans. Sorry for the long post.

 

[Niceguydan8]

Hasn't Luke Smith gone on record saying Destiny was never meant to be a game to be played endlessly like an MMO? I could have sworn that was in a tweet or interview or something.

It's cool that people love the game enough to want endless content, but what if the game is designed to just pop in a couple times a week?

The weird thing is that it absolutely takes inspiration from genres that are meant to be played that way. So when I pop in Diablo, I can pretty much always do something to progress. When load up FFXIV, there's progression in some form for me there. When I pop in Destiny, at this point ther'es nothing for me to do there.

I think it just feels a little weird because it so obviously borrows from games that don't necessarily require no-lifing, but allows that if the person wants to do that. It still feels somewhat meaningful. Destiny 2 falls off a cliff pretty quick, and then I'm sitting there saying "Wait, isn't this the game that took clear inspiration from Diablo and something like WoW? Why is it missing so much for the players?"

 

[ethomaz]

What a franchise, both the first game and the second game turns out to be extremely disappointing.

It's just depressing to see how Destiny 1 turns out compare to the original concept, it was suppose to be this massive, deep, colorful open world filled with amazing design and interesting lore, but in the end we got none of that.

Destiny 1 was disappointing compare to the original concept of Destiny, and Destiny 2 was disappointing compare to Destiny 1.....

What a fucking franchise man.

The fact neither games disapointed tells a lot...

 

[killroy87]

Serious question then, what exactly is keeping you playing? Just the gunplay?

Isn't that enough? I can play Super Mario World pretty much non stop, but the game isn't giving me new loot every time I beat a level.

It's okay for games to just be fun to play lol.

 

[urge26]

Time wasted on Destiny 1: 1992 hours on Xbox One, 89 on PS4.
Time wasted on Destiny 2: 196 hours.

I've hit the wall where there is nothing to do. Hunter, Warlock, Titan maxed at 305, beaten the raid a couple of times while my raiding team was taking their time blind. Gear sucks, new events are nothing but farming tokens playing the same shit.

Raid: nothing desirable outside of Sins of the Past and It Stared Back, have both.
Trials: nothing but competitive playlist with Tokens, power doesn't matter.
Iron Banner: nothing but quickplay playlist with Tokens, power doesn't matter.
Faction Wars: nothing but freeplay with Tokens, subpar gear outside of FWC's weapons.
Nightfall Prestige: cut the timer, spongier enemies, gives us a crown with a 300 engram as reward.

Community has a right to be salty, Bungie has completely alienated the hardcore and those that want to login everyday. The game is a shell of it's formal self. Raid doesn't hold a candle to VoG or Kings Fall. Bungie made an awesome campaign, and Nightfall is the only thing they did right with end game. I couldn't be more bummed out about the situation.

 

[TyrantII]

These kinds of critiques always make me feel like game designers are caught between two poles when it comes to this kind of game design - make an endless treadmill that players like this want to be on so that the 100s of hours they put in can have constant 'meaning' in the form of new loot and rising numbers but one that would alientate more casual players with less time OR make a game where getting to 'max power' or what have you is actually attainable in a reasonable timeframe, which ruins the game for people like this who want the game to be a lifestyle.

I don't think it's impossible to do both. Bungie really hasn't even tried.

Example: mods. Why can the mod system be used to add perks to guns? Why can't mods be gotten from adventure and lost sectors runs?

The hardcore will farm and play and try out each and every combination, finding the metas. The casuals can hold onto their mats and perkless weapons and wait for meta to sort out, then apply their mods. Those in between can experiment to their play style.

It's no longer random. There's gameplay work to be done by the hardcore. The casuals have the mats and can just bid time, or chase the more easily gettable stuff when the numbers roll in.

 

[Pejo]

Isn't that enough? I can play Super Mario World pretty much non stop, but the game isn't giving me new loot every time I beat a level.

It's okay for games to just be fun to play lol.

Super Mario isn't a loot game/MMO lite though...

 

[E92 M3]

Serious question then, what exactly is keeping you playing? Just the gunplay?

Oh yeah, I can just zone out and do PEs for hours. Fun to shoot shit. I am missing 4 or 5 exotics total and unfortunately, the crown is one of them. So you can say, that keeps some of the chase alive.

 

[The ๖ۜBronx]

Isn't that enough? I can play Super Mario World pretty much non stop, but the game isn't giving me new loot every time I beat a level.
It's okay for games to just be fun to play lol.

It's also okay for people to expect some reason to work toward the level cap (since there is one) and have some new experiences for the final stretch between 280 and 305 – which doesn't take long at all to get to. It's alright for people to expect more end-game content (or, hell, even an end-game at all since there's no reason to actually get near the level cap) than the first game had. We're not talking hundreds of hours. I may have 112 hours in it but that's from having done everything in the game three times over, and got three characters to 300+.

This is a far cry from people expecting limitless gameplay, this is more what happens when you make levelling far more accessible and combine that with a lack of anything new to do at the later levels.

 

[Heroman]

What the point of reaching max?

 

[Soul of the Beast]

The fact neither games disapointed tells a lot...

Which is why Destiny 2 sold a lot less than the first?

 

[The Hamburglar]

he forgot to mention the raid absolutely sucks.

Best part of destiny is the shooting. Yet this raid seems to encourage anything but. The raid boss is stupid and a discount Aethon.

The templar fight in VOG was better than the whole of this new raid.

 

[urge26]

Whhat the point of reaching max?

There is no point that I know of.... done nothing for me, hence Slayerage outlining that.

 

[Fjordson]

Yeah cuz its clearly been designed to be "Finished" and retired from until new content hits

Despite them carrying the facade of an always active Semi-MMO

Its better than D1 since our first expansion is in December but it doesnt have that "thing" to grind for like D1

We are in this weird limbo with Destiny because we are trying to play the game the opposite of how it was designed

Guys

Take the hint. This isn't D1

I get that. And like I said in my post, some people clearly prefer that and that's totally fine, but to me it's disappointing. Just feels like a very slight and pedestrian experienced compared to what it could have been.

Again, just my opinion, not saying it's wrong that they designed it like that. I'm just not a fan.

 

[void666]

What the point of reaching max?

Peace of mind.

 

[Eppy Thatcher]

Me and my fireteam beat the Raid for the first time last night. We grabbed our chest, pocketed some exotics and then flew into the tower to go unlock the vendor. I unlocked every piece of raid gear that I had wanted - the raid auto rifle (only missing the launcher and hand cannon now) and then proceeded to paint all my gear into FWC to look like the coldest fuckin hunter you've ever seen...

it was glorious and amazing! for like.... 20 minutes.

Then I sat back and started reading the messages on my phone about our crew wanting to maybe get into IB today or how the raid would go even quicker next week and so on and so forth and all I could think was... Why?

I have all the gear to look the way I want since i knew it existed. I have all the guns i want/need/my favorites except for literally 2. IB isn't leveled to our PL, the gear looks so stupid, the guns don't look amazing either and nothing looks like a "need to have it!" gun except for maybe the hand cannon.

I feel .... done? with destiny. Until the next expansion it's like... i'm finished? I never had this feeling with D1.... feels bad.

 

[killroy87]

Super Mario isn't a loot game/MMO lite though...

You asked if he enjoyed playing the game for the gameplay alone, and not a steady stream of new loot. I asked you if it would blow your mind if he did lol.

My point is some people like to replay/keep playing games because they just find them fun to play. Why would anyone logically replay Resident Evil 4? There isn't much more to see past that first time through. They must just really enjoy the experience of playing the game.

It's crazy, I know.

 

[Jblanks]

Yea I agree with pretty much everything, good read.

 

[CookTrain]

They should use the mod system to make gun synergies like a crazy FPS Binding of Isaac. Make mods the loot grind.

 

[ZeoVGM]

I don’t know what to tell you but yeap... even Bungie saw that and being all vanilla gears after second year.

The exotics you use in Destiny even today are from vanilla.

What expansions added? The best guns are still the vanilla guns... that they nerfed to hell to try to “balance” lol PVP in vanilla was tons of fun over what we have today.

Well, this seems to be the issue: you're speaking for everyone rather than just yourself.

My most used weapons in Destiny were the Doctrine of Passing and Raze-liter. The Unbent Tree got a lot of use as well.

And the best Raid set they've done was the Wrath of the Machine set.

Vanilla Destiny is still the best Destiny experience.

Sorry, I don't agree. And listen, it's completely fine that you think that. But the fact of the matter is that you're in the minority. And Bungie can't cater to that.

 

[Future PhaZe]

As far as loot--rng perks don't solve anything so long as there's:

1. The ability to infuse old weapons
2. A limited amount of perks that are within "meta"

Year 3 of Destiny was almost completely devoid of anything worthwhile added to the loot pool because "god tier" perk combinations already existed for every class of weapon within the meta--it got to the point where additional content wasn't the decider of the value of guns, rather, it was how Bungie's latest patch balanced the various weapons, reintroducing a new meta in the process.

This isn't really a PVE vs PVP problem. It's moreso a "Bungie has no interest in expanding the rpg elements" problem. So long as everything in this game is about raw TTK, flinch, etc, and so long as the various armor systems and exotics do nothing besides offer a "clever little trick", loot is always going to feel relatively limited.

In regards to the end game, yes--power level is meaningless and there's virtually no reason to do certain end game activities. I think this is less of a problem than the loot issue though. It's almost certain that with future expansions we'll be seeing more emphasis on end game, but as long as I keep saying "raid AR? Meh, would rather use uriels. Where's high caliber rounds?", we're going to have the same issues.

 

[ethomaz]

Which is why Destiny 2 sold a lot less than the first?

How much less? Even so there are a lot of reasons.

- Less platforms (2 vs 4).
- D1 players that dropped the game on first week.
- Some players waiting PC 60fps release.

Now if you are talking specific about UK... well all UK sequel releases this year are down... even FIFA.

 

[hydruxo]

he forgot to mention the raid absolutely sucks.

Best part of destiny is the shooting. Yet this raid seems to encourage anything but. The raid boss is stupid and a discount Aethon.

The templar fight in VOG was better than the whole of this new raid.

Leviathan was cool the first time through but every run I've done since then I've grown more indifferent towards it each time.

 

[The ๖ۜBronx]

My point is some people like to replay/keep playing games because they just find them fun to play. Why would anyone logically replay Resident Evil 4? There isn't much more to see past that first time through. They must just really enjoy the experience of playing the game.

It's crazy, I know.

If the last 15% of Resident Evil 4 was being met with a door for which you needed a key, and getting said key required replaying the missions you'd just finished doing with the weapons (power) you did them with, and then upon getting it and unlocking the door it was just an empty room, and then the credits rolled, perhaps people wouldn't have found it so fun. People might even question what the point in playing that last section was.

You're bypassing the actual issues to make this simple point of "lol people can play games just for fun" which everyone and their mother realises, and has largely nothing to do with the crux of the problem in Destiny 2.

 

[ethomaz]

My most used weapons in Destiny were the Doctrine of Passing and Raze-liter. The Unbent Tree got a lot of use as well.

What? lol

 

[Kalnoky]

Agreed with most of the points in the OP, for sure. As someone who didn't play hardly any Destiny 1, it mirrors how I had started to feel shortly after hitting max level in Destiny 2. I still play basically once a week with my brother, and we spend a couple hours knocking out milestones and attempting the Nightfall, and then set it down for the week again.

Like I've said elsewhere, probably great for people who have very little time to play and don't want to feel like they're missing out or being left behind, but the whole "character progression" gameplay loop at max level just feels completely wrong to me.

 

[ZeoVGM]

Time wasted on Destiny 1: 1992 hours on Xbox One, 89 on PS4.
Time wasted on Destiny 2: 196 hours.

For the life of me, I'm not sure why you thought that statistic helped your argument.

You can't compare the time you played a game over the course of three years to the time you've played a game that has been out for a month.

Okay, you feel like you hit a wall now. But I don't believe you if you tell me that you never felt that way during Destiny 1 at least once.

Seriously, if you drop down from the 196 hours you played in the first month to, let's say 50 hours per month on average over the next three years, you'll have the same playtime as Destiny 1.

Relax. It's okay to feel like you've hit a wall in a video game you played for nearly 200 hours in a single month. That's normal.

 

[killroy87]

If the last 15% of Resident Evil 4 was being met with a door for which you needed a key, and getting said key required replaying the missions you'd just finished doing with the weapons (power) you did them with, and then upon getting it and unlocking the door it was just an empty room, and then the credits rolled, perhaps people wouldn't have found it so fun. People might even question what the point in playing that last section was.

You're bypassing the actual issues to make this simple point of "lol people can play games just for fun" which everyone and their mother realises, and has largely nothing to do with the crux of the problem in Destiny 2.

I guess I just never expected the game to provide me endless content. I don't remember them promising that. So when I hit the point where I feel I'm out of things to do and am not having fun anymore, I'll put the game down until more content arrives. This idea really doesn't cause me to lose any sleep lol.

 

[The ๖ۜBronx]

Sorry, I don't agree. And listen, it's completely fine that you think that. But the fact of the matter is that you're in the minority. And Bungie can't cater to that.

Ask people what the most memorable raid and weapon of Destiny was and I guarantee most will say Vault of Glass and Gjallarhorn. You criticize the poster for speaking for everyone about things he personally liked, before doing the same yourself.

 

[ZeoVGM]

What? lol

... Did you have an actual reply? You're not really adding much to this argument here other than "Well, I personally didn't like other weapons so no one did."

There was nothing "lol" about that. Doctrine with a God roll and Raze-lighter were two of the best weapons in Destiny, hands down, without question.

 

[wuth]

I read this on Reddit, even though it's well reasoned I can't agree with it.

I don't want random rolls back just to give me a superficial chase. I don't want to deal with grinding strikes and raids again holding out hope for good rolls. I understand the re-roll system would include opportunities to customize guns, but the reality is that there will always be top tier equipment and broken equipment. People will always strive for optimization. And in that sense, no, I don't want an additional hamster wheel to run on in order to get optimal loadouts that will only serve to break weapon balance and drive players into another grind loop to stay competitive.

I also don't want a faster TTK. Fine, I get it- it's annoying to lose to team shooting when you're on your own and it's even more annoying to miss a kill by a hair because someone was able to sprint to safety. But I like the slow matches and I like the necessity to coordinate and pick targets. I get that Slayer doesn't. Cool, if they decide to lean into his suggestions then more power to you guys but that's probably when I take a break.

Also, fuck the side-eyes towards balance and the desire for ridiculous weapons. I like ridiculous weapons, I don't like broken ones that force a meta. Does nobody remember LFG without the ballerhorn? LFM MUST HAVE ICEBREAKER/BLACK SPINDLE/GHORN

No, fuck that. Make exotics fun, certainly, but don't start wheeling out completely busted weapons that completely fuck casuals or the unlucky few who can't just grind for exotics or want build variation.

The game needs content and rewards, that I agree on. I also understand that Slayer has a completely different perspective on the game as a man who basically lives in Destiny. Meanwhile, I am still getting new exotics playing 5-6 hours a week and enjoying myself.

I get that people are upset with the changes, and if Bungie chooses to cater to those people who want a loot grind and want broken content then by all means enjoy yourselves. My friends and I will almost certainly find it harder to enjoy, but it seems we are the minority.

 

[The ๖ۜBronx]

I guess I just never expected the game to provide me endless content. I don't remember them promising that. So when I hit the point where I feel I'm out of things to do and am not having fun anymore, I'll put the game down until more content arrives. This idea really doesn't cause me to lose any sleep lol.

You keep coming back to things no one is saying, and in this case something I've already responded to you about:

It's also okay for people to expect some reason to work toward the level cap (since there is one) and have some new experiences for the final stretch between 280 and 305 – which doesn't take long at all to get to. It's alright for people to expect more end-game content (or, hell, even an end-game at all since there's no reason to actually get near the level cap) than the first game had. We're not talking hundreds of hours. I may have 112 hours in it but that's from having done everything in the game three times over, and got three characters to 300+.

This is a far cry from people expecting limitless gameplay, this is more what happens when you make levelling far more accessible and combine that with a lack of anything new to do at the later levels.

Hell, I'm not even sure what my response had to do with limitless content:

If the last 15% of Resident Evil 4 was being met with a door for which you needed a key, and getting said key required replaying the missions you'd just finished doing with the weapons (power) you did them with, and then upon getting it and unlocking the door it was just an empty room, and then the credits rolled, perhaps people wouldn't have found it so fun. People might even question what the point in playing that last section was.