QisTopTier
XisBannedTier
So was it ok for miranda to get on the mic the next day and start talking about dick sizes?
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Cross The Line - Sexual Assault... ok, maybe just Sexual Harassment!
- Thread starter The Faceless Master
- Start date
So was it ok for miranda to get on the mic the next day and start talking about dick sizes?
Yeah people really need to stop trying to defend Aris. Its not a good look. Let the guy bury himself if he wants.
rukland
Member
Sorry I knew that was worded wrong quickly, and I tried to get my edit in on time but for the sake of digging myself out of my hole here is my edit.
I am not trying to judge one way or the other on this issue yet. I fully see that not all the information has been put into a good place to read it. Just at this point I have very little to go by. I am a big watcher of streams, admittedly with no volume so I miss alot of things. I really like parts of the FGC and wish it no ill will.
J
Jotamide
Unconfirmed Member
I am disgusted by this.
FlutterPuffs
Member
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minimisation_(psychology)
I'd agree that aris =/= fgc. But don't be so quick to judge Miranda. This does happen to anyone who has been harassed.
Hell, most who has been bullied and been forced to explain on what happened has done this.
I'm pretty sure continuing to harass someone after they tell you it's bothering them does not make you a 'good guy'.
QisTopTier
XisBannedTier
That's the thing. Everyone said it stopped and he apologized like crazy.
Why wasn't filthierich the coach for capcom? I'm assuming its because he works for namco.
That was after she put him on blast during the Haunts x Jared discussion. She asked before and nothing was done.
The problem here is not the fighting game community, but the harm that people like Aris cause to the fighting game community. The community is simply made up of the people in it. Lots of good guys and girls in it, but Aris isn't one of them and people like him should not be put in any sort of position to represent anything.
Since this incident was sparked by what happened in this reality show tournament Capcom set up, and since Aris is a team leader for one of the two teams, it does look bad. It's not representative of the community at large at all, but it is representative of the fact that someone like that can be put in a leadership position for an event which puts the community in the media spotlight.
That's what needs to be weeded out.
NinajHeartless
Member
perfectnight
Banned
(Today, 08:27 PM)
Aaaaaaand there is the first ban of the thread.
Banned
(Today, 08:27 PM)
Aaaaaaand there is the first ban of the thread.
https://twitter.com/#!/skisonic/status/173982524782034945
https://twitter.com/#!/GeoffTheHero/status/174338409354113024
https://twitter.com/#!/CEOJebailey/status/174334199040442368
https://twitter.com/#!/Floejisan/status/174335835620122624
https://twitter.com/#!/ThatMikeRossGuy/status/174327355840540673
Because he's likely a very busy man.
After watching Twitch.TV a lot this month I do see a ton of offensive comments from the known players tho.
HelloKittyRicky from FGTV, who doesn't get bothered by F-bombs, said you have to realize everyone is different in the community tho and it doesn't fly with everyone, which is true.
So I guess Aris feels like it's seen all throughout the community, not just from the "stream monsters", which appears to be true to an extent, but the obvious difference is he feels like he can do it with any and everyone and doesn't care how it makes them feel if they are uncomfortable with it.
PsychoSoldier
Banned
So, who was she sexually harassing when she talked about dick sizes exactly?
Did she single out someone and try to get them to talk about their dick size to the camera?
Did he really? Is there a link or is this on the stream?
Well I'd agree if she at least seemed like she wanted him to stop. I'm not saying Aris isn't to blame, but he is a good guy, but he was out of line. I guess she didn't make it clear enough to him, because she seemed to like the attention or was cool with it at first. Starslay3r another female gamer actually said that Aris needed to cut it out and Superyan actually called starslay3r an idiot for trying to defend her. This was closer to the beginning, but I suppose at some point superyan became bothered by it, even though it didn't at first. Also he became apologetic and stopped all of it at some point, so he's not quite the monster everyone is portraying him to be. But again the comments isn't called for, unless they'd built that kind of rapport.
He answered it on LI Joe's stream (indirectly).
He's way too busy, that's also why he didn't get the time to stick it out with the game as much as the other top guys.
Augemitbutter
Member
did he even realize that he was on live broadcast? was he drunk? this man lacks common sense.
what he did was stupid and shameful.
what he did was stupid and shameful.
Depends on the context. There's a good chance she did it to demonstrate she is cool with the sexual harassment she suffered.
The important part is that Miranda may tell you now that she didn't feel harassed, but that's her trying to cope with abuse and rationalizing. And maybe she is used to people being misogynist in the FGC, but that doesn't mean the misoginy is not there, and that other women would feel comfortable there.
QisTopTier
XisBannedTier
she almost asked 200 yen but she stopped mid sentence. She was talking about her boyfriends penis size :3It was on joe's stream, it is also in the megathread from members of the community there. Unless you want to call Markman, Max, and Blurei all liars
Capcom uses a character's unconfirmed gender as a talking point. Sexual Harassment? Fair game if it gets viewers!
A lot of shit talking happens in casual environments, and this is definitely something that is under greater scrutiny because of public streams. I agree that there is a different threshold for what people are comfortable with, and people who are playing games tend to want to cool off on being politically correct.
But the biggest problem is that I think when you are called out on it, or when you realize that you have actually offended someone or someone is being seriously critical of the environment being created by your comments or actions, you don't defend it. You take a step back and admit that you might have crossed the line, you apologize, and you try to work it out so everyone has a fun time playing games.
rukland
Member
Thanks, really I am seeing now that as normal with the gaming "media" things get lost along the way. They seem to follow the same mantra my broadcast teacher had "Never let the facts get in the way of a good story". Now mind you after he told us that he want on lecture us on making sure we had all our facts straight and to not really listen to that.
But the fact remains that yellow journalism all follow that line so well. After all the truth never sells or gets hits.
Miranda said something about the way black guys hit on her. She went on to the mic to explain her stance ("I love the way black guys talk to me. You know, they treat you like a human being. They make an effort. They don't creep"). Stream chat was calling her racist for hating black guys before, after her comments they started calling her racist for loving black guys.
Miranda laughed, then said 'Haha. Stream's calling me racist for loving black guys.' I have a Korean boyfriend. I'm not racist. Stream chat: "Koreans have small penises" Miranda: "Koreans do not have small dicks. I speak from experience."
I said it before and I say it again. Miranda doesn't know how to deal with stream monsters.
Came to post this. The problem with the 'fighting game' community is that most times (times like these) it portrays itself as a group that is filled with a typical 'fratboy' mentality. This happens all over the world and it's wrong in those cases too (high school, college, the workplace) etc. The sad thing about this is that you can bet that for the most part, people in this community were likely ostracized in high school and were the targets of bullies, and never really fit in in those types of situations. It's a very standard scenario, these guys were probably bullied in high school, never fit in with any groups there, and found this community as a place they can associate with. Then, over time, they began to bully new comers and the power went to their head. People don't behave like this for the sake of it, or just because they're assholes. Ok, they probably do. But from the many streams I've watched, unless you fit in, you're made fun of. And if they ever find somebody who will handle being made fun of and won't crack (Miranda), they won't let up. Suddenly, it becomes acceptable because they don't retaliate or crack the shits, and we end up having to watch embarrassing shit like this.
Over the years, this kind of behaviour has been re inforced because nobody says anything to stop it. I think it's great that finally it's being exposed for the boys club that it is. I play fighting games regularly and have for years now. I am not a racist or a sexist, nor a bully. People in my life know this. But you can guarantee that if they ever saw these videos, they'd think twice about it. That's the stigma that needs to be removed. Aris and his crew don't represent just themselves when they talk shit like this, they represent people all over the world because they are the community.
I should add that I'm in Australia, and that this could be off as I've never physically been around these guys. But I've been to gaming tournaments and card tournaments for years now, and this stuff is evident all over the place. People who were/or are bullied get together and play the role of the bullies to the newbies, because they see that they aren't the weakest ones around. And then they become assholes. The sad part is that you can see this sort of behaviour start to seep into the Australian scene as a result of these guys.
PsychoSoldier
Banned
By everyone, he means bluerei, a forum poster that works on the production team for Cross Assault. I can't think of any other sources.
She thinks a bit differently:
https://twitter.com/#!/Super__Yan/status/174600846212988928
https://twitter.com/#!/Super__Yan/status/174071210064347136
faceless007
Member
What's a "stream monster"?
rukland
Member
After reading more and more I have to say I agree with this statement 100%
QisTopTier
XisBannedTier
People in the stream chat.
PsychoSoldier
Banned
It can mean just people watching the stream or it can mean the people acting like fools in stream chat.
freenudemacusers
Member
this what?
If that's the case, she shouldn't have done that or told starslay3r off for defending her. Its sending mixed signals. Best to avoid this all together by not even engaging in this kinda behavior though.
And again, what happens? Articles and the media generalize anonymous online spectators, stream monsters, who spend their time trolling anyways using hundreds upon hundreds of troll accounts, as the FGC itself (not to single them out, but considering 4chan has a very strong fighting game community, I wouldn't hazard a guess that many of them originate from there either just to light fires). And then, this issue is for some reason deemed exclusive to the FGC and blown up out of proportion completely because the FGC never gets any positive news reported about it. Suffice to say, people on GAF, and a lot of pro players are very upset about how this incident is painting the ENTIRE community.
Yes, what Aris said was terrible. He had a point he was trying to make, took it way too far out of line, and started talking some mad misogynistic nonsense that went far beyond the nasty and has put the entire FGC in this odd situation, much of us ashamed. But I don't know about these articles trying to cram everything into one neat piece of writing when the entire thing has been a massive clusterfuck over the past 3 days. Don't report on something if it's just misinformation, at least GiantBomb is doing something to try and remedy that.
So many details left out, like how Miranda kept saying on her twitter how Capcom did nothing when they did, and how they intervened early on too IIRC, how Aris actually apologized, how Miranda threw matches and screwed DMG Kor (a teammate for a challenge) out of potentially getting back in for the $25K with her premeditated plan she talked about on Twitter, etc. So much periphery information that isn't presented, but indeed plays into the fuckery that is this event that's unfolded over the past few days.
EDIT: Oh yeah can't forget the Starslay3r thing too. Girl tells her to shut up about there being sexual harassment going on, and then she goes and claims there is afterwards. I just don't understand what's been going through Miranda's mind these past few days either.
Not true. There are definitely people in the community who do not condone this and do say things against it. If you follow the big tournaments streams with Team Spooky organizing and streaming stuff, they have generally great commentators and their events are planned to be all inclusive without pandering to this sort of shit. There's still some ways to go for the community at large, but there are steps being taken to make it better.
The problem I feel with this specific event which Capcom is running is that they probably didn't know what they were getting into by putting together two specific teams with the rules requiring one female player in each, and then making it a "reality show" format. It was probably asking for trouble tbh.
QisTopTier
XisBannedTier
That was the other thing that was stupid as hell. Starslay3r said she had her back about being harassed and that it was wrong for her to be treated the way she was. Miranda's response to it was. She's dumb and doesnt know anything, things are fine.
So freaking dumb =.=
I don't approve of it at all. I'm just saying she stuffed herself into the situation when she had times to back out of it.
SousedLouse
Member
No, getting a few details wrong or omitting facts doesn't totally discredit any given article, at least in my opinion. However, one or two articles (and twitter feeds, and Skype group calls, etc.) took some incorrect details, and some correct ones as well, and jumped to some pretty broad conclusions. Couple that with the way some over-defensive fighting game fans tend to tar all levels of criticism with the same brush, and even the well written articles are treated as yellow journalism by people who don't want to hear anything from others outside of the loop. But then, said people are so indignant that they won't even entertain the idea of letting the critics into the loop, and clam up. So both sides end up thinking that the the other has no idea about what they're talking about.
That's what I've taken away from this whole thing, anyway. It's just a really bad situation all around, and the way that some people have tied themselves to specific aspects of it (defending or criticizing Aris or Miranda, for example) instead of focusing on the whole of it kind of makes it hard to find any common ground for discussion.
edit: Wow, this thread moves fast. Pretty much most of my points were made anyway.
lol You may have a point.
Since Capcom selected everyone who was involved with this project, I believe it is easy to see how people could also think that Aris did represent the fighting game community in some way.
I'm so thankful that most of the posters here are differentiating these comments as Aris' and not the community's global feelings towards people of different sexes/creeds/etc.
I agree duckroll, Aris being a coach on the show and in a sense "leading" the Tekken team (which those who watched the show know he did none of when compared with his counterpart, Alex Valle) can easily make it seem as we all condone his words and feelings.
I wish PA wasn't being so standoffish (as is evidence by Kucher's tweets). Klepek has been posting both on Twitter and in our Cross Assault thread after the article went live about being open to amending and adding to the article. Multiple prominent members/players/personalities of the community immediately messaged him and I feel like there has been a real dialogue which can only help rectify what issues exist.
Anyway, I'm gonna go enjoy the show stream now. I've had my fill of this stuff now. I recommend everyone who enjoys a good fighting game check out the stream. SFxT looks like a really fun game for both casual fans and hardcore enthusiasts.
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I agree duckroll, Aris being a coach on the show and in a sense "leading" the Tekken team (which those who watched the show know he did none of when compared with his counterpart, Alex Valle) can easily make it seem as we all condone his words and feelings.
I wish PA wasn't being so standoffish (as is evidence by Kucher's tweets). Klepek has been posting both on Twitter and in our Cross Assault thread after the article went live about being open to amending and adding to the article. Multiple prominent members/players/personalities of the community immediately messaged him and I feel like there has been a real dialogue which can only help rectify what issues exist.
Anyway, I'm gonna go enjoy the show stream now. I've had my fill of this stuff now. I recommend everyone who enjoys a good fighting game check out the stream. SFxT looks like a really fun game for both casual fans and hardcore enthusiasts.
Show link
SolarPowered
Member
He was supposedly pulled aside by Capcom's folks and he apologized several times a couple of days ago. The mood was so tense for everyone before that even happened that Miranda just kinda broke. She didn't even feel like she belonged at the show after a while because her performance was not up to par in her own words iirc.
Things were apparently smoothed over a bit, but she was probably fed up with the show and wanted out because of several factors.
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