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[PsychoSoldier]

I think it should be noted that there are a ton of really classy streamers doing good work without resorting to this kind of thing. Ultradavid and James Chen on commentary is pretty PG level commentary and really good to boot, Alex Valle is a god damn legend and all around classy dude, and Sp00ky does great work for the community.

But unfortunately some people have gotten caught up in defending Aris and have ended up looking bad in the process---I'm still disappointed in Haunts defending Aris saying what seems like undefendable stuff.

 

[scar tissue]

Bakhtanians: Look, man. What is unacceptable about that? There’s nothing unacceptable about that. These are people, we’re in America, man, this isn’t North Korea. We can say what we want. People get emotional.

Well, can't say he's wrong. Assholes are allowed to be assholes in public too.

 

[def sim]

Huh yikes

The reactions from horrifically insular community members as if this is an "esports" thing rather than an actual, larger problem are depressing.

 

[perfectnight]

This Aris guy is amazing. A disgusting sample of a human being who represents everything which is wrong with being empowered by a closely knitted community of douchebags who are now resisting the fact that their hobby has grown beyond their fratboy clubhouse, and tries to justify his pigheaded behavior as something which is normal and acceptable.

Choice quotes:

"The beauty of the fighting game community, and you should know this - it’s based around not being welcome. That’s the beauty of it. That’s the key essence of it. When you walk into an arcade for the first time, nobody likes you."

"And then there are people who are racist but they have tons of friends of all colors and they have deep love for those friends."

"This is a community that’s, you know, 15 or 20 years old, and the sexual harassment is part of a culture, and if you remove that from the fighting game community, it’s not the fighting game community--it’s StarCraft."

Pretty sure if I generalized thousands of people to the point that you are it would mean a long time out for me or anyone else in this forum. Wish I had a red username!

 

[DidntKnowJack]

Disgusting. Honestly, there's nothing else I can think to say about it.

 

[dralla]

no surprise it's from aris. guy is always a total douche on streams

 

[The Faceless Master]

Isn't Aris that Tekken dude with the beard who acted like a creep towards that transwoman player at EVO?

yes.

 

[Aselith]

Wow that's crazy.

 

[Ogrekiller]

Pretty sure if I generalized thousands of people to the point that you are it would mean a long time out for me or anyone else in this forum. Wish I had a red username!

Yes, thank goodness GAF members are so understanding and appreciative when it comes to sexual harassment in gaming.

 

[ultron87]

"This is a community that’s, you know, 15 or 20 years old, and the sexual harassment is part of a culture, and if you remove that from the fighting game community, it’s not the fighting game community--it’s StarCraft."

Starcraft: "The competitive video game community that won't sexually harass you."

Except for the time posted above. Yeah.

 

[Conceited]

Pretty sure if I generalized thousands of people to the point that you are it would mean a long time out for me or anyone else in this forum. Wish I had a red username!

Seriously, painting with that mile wide brush.

 

[V_Ben]

yes.

Oh jeez... I remember that. Creepy stuff.

 

[rukland]

Pretty sure if I generalized thousands of people to the point that you are it would mean a long time out for me or anyone else in this forum. Wish I had a red username!

I think in this case the generalization is fair, seeing as the FGC seems to be standing behind Aris and his stupid comments. I have read the "explanation" of his actions but still playing to the stream monsters is not an excuse to act like a total pig.

 

[inky]

Wow that Aris guy comments. What a disgusting human being.

 

[MThanded]

so we have a thread about this now

 

[ShallNoiseUpon]

Well, can't say he's wrong. Assholes are allowed to be assholes in public too.

That doesn't mean what they're saying is right or acceptable.

 

[SolarPowered]

This is going to be a very very heated thread.

Reminds me of what Harada said about the Tekken community.
I think it was on the Iwata Asks abotu Tekken Prime Edition, and how he would watch the Tekken players which were mostly around a similar age group a, mostly guys and usually talked the same way.

While the Smash Bros. community was more friendly and cooperative, and would like something like that for his games.

I remember reading that Iwata asks. He mentioned how similar the two communities were because Smash folks could get hyped and crazy just like Tekken folks in a tournament. This was one of the reasons he felt like they could bring VF to the 3DS. He wanted to expose them to another brand of fighting after finding out that Smash groups aren't that different from Tekken folks.

all iirc...

 

[SousedLouse]

Some of them may have been rushed, but there was also a huge lack of cooperation in terms of the people involved, which is why any statements from the other side aren't there aside from Capcom.

Good Guy Markman is going to be speaking with both Kuchera and Klepek on behalf of the folks in the community though.

Yeah, Capcom's infamous habit of maintaining radio silence during controversy isn't doing anyone any favors, not to mention the chain of mental implosions that accompanied the issue last night (Late Nite with LI Joe, Marn acting like an ass, Mike Ross giving his opinion on stream monsters, etc.)

I also feel that there's a bit of resentment coming from people who are involved in the fighting game community due to the fact that they're collectively being shamed by the mainstream press, some of whom are just flat out jumping to conclusions. Doesn't help that they're:

A) counting stream monsters as fighting game fans outright, when being a stream monster has just become its own thing outright, and
B) drawing comparisons to MLG and other "e-sports" organizations as if they're the standard, even though said organizations have gone through some sordid things themselves in the past themselves.

No one's walking out of this thing smelling like roses, though. I don't expect a full changing of the guard, but what happened yesterday will be hanging around people's necks for a good while.

 

[Cels]

Good god. I haven't been watching cross assault but I did watch the videos linked in Kuchera's article. WTF.

 

[shadyspace]

I think in this case the generalization is fair, seeing as the FGC seems to be standing behind Aris and his stupid comments. I have read the "explanation" of his actions but still playing to the stream monsters is not an excuse to act like total pig.

This. Denounce this guy or the world at large assumes you agree with him. Pretty simple.

 

[toddhunter]

"This is a community that’s, you know, 15 or 20 years old, and the sexual harassment is part of a culture, and if you remove that from the fighting game community, it’s not the fighting game community--it’s StarCraft."

This is my main problem. People defending this stuff as part of the fgc. It shouldn't be part of any community.

 

[hey_it's_that_dog]

Pretty sure if I generalized thousands of people to the point that you are it would mean a long time out for me or anyone else in this forum. Wish I had a red username!

If you're not a douchebag he's not talking about you.

 

[GabbyJay]

Aris is the minority. Basing all your viewpoints on the FGC on that one article isn't the brightest thing to do, but to each his own.

I like fighting games.

 

[XANDER CAGE]

First, I'm not condoning their behavior in this situation at all. However, I can see how the argument that, "This is our place to hang out, relax, blow off some steam and not worry about the PC police," holds some weight. It's the same way many people behave and act stupid with their friends, calling them horrible things, maybe even doing horrible things to each other, but nobody actually means any harm by it. I don't think that makes anyone participating in such bad people, or necessarily racist, sexist, or whatever you want to call them.

But, and this is the HUGE BUT, it's not fun and games anymore when you're making someone uncomfortable or intimidating them. There's also a difference between messing around with friends in a private setting, and broadcasting your antics to the world while trying to invite more people in and grow the community.

At some point though, you have to realize what you're doing is juvenile shit, and you need to grow up a bit and act like a responsible person. Or you don't, and then this happens.

This is exactly how I feel. Sure, it's possible to reach a certain understanding with people you know extremely well what is and isn't acceptable to say - I have gay friends who drop the "f" bomb (read: not "fuck") all the time when we hang out, and a transman friend in my class who similarly drops all kinds of badmouthed slurs in good company. There's a certain comfort level and understanding that develops between some people who really let loose and don't take this kind of thing seriously.

It's absolutely different once you're among strangers, newcomers, and especially when you're on stage. It certainly doesn't help that the rowdiness and general acceptance of hee-haw rape jokes and whatnot in the FGC (especially streams) pretty much precludes a lot of newcomers from even beginning to feel comfortable.

 

[Row]

Pretty sure if I generalized thousands of people to the point that you are it would mean a long time out for me or anyone else in this forum. Wish I had a red username!

Ignoring the poor quality of the community won't make things any better

Make any sort of comparison, and the difference is clear as day. Compare a popular starcraft/LoL/WoW/CoD/Halo etc. stream/forum/event to a fighting game equivalent and it's jarring how much more embarrassing it generally is

fgc doesn't need to get super serious and straight laced, but some actual decency will go a long way and doesn't have an adverse effect

 

[TheChits]

Aris is a good guy. He didn't articulate his point well at all, and used really stupid examples as you can see by the quotes, but he isn't this monster that you guys are thinking he is.

 

[enzo_gt]

As long as we keep in mind Aris =/= The FGC, I guess it's okay for discussion to exist here too.

Also, don't bother reading the Penny Arcade or Destructoid articles, especially the first. Horrible written, selective of information they choose to provide, etc. Not everyone knows the full story, but pretty much none of these articles encompass everything. Just today, Miranda changed her mind about the situation AGAIN. It's difficult to even keep up when the supposed victim has flip-flopped on how she feels the situation was handled 3-4 times now.

About 5-10 GAFers have been banned regarding stuff related to this in the megathread already.

I think in this case the generalization is fair, seeing as the FGC seems to be standing behind Aris and his stupid comments. I have read the "explanation" of his actions but still playing to the stream monsters is not an excuse to act like a total pig.

By saying this, you know you have outed yourself as not knowing the reality of the situation. The majority of the FGC and FGC-GAF has condemned it. No, it is NOT okay to generalize.

 

[Ra1den]

I can't believe the shit Aris is saying. Talk about being a disgrace to the community.

 

[Boney]

Pretty sure if I generalized thousands of people to the point that you are it would mean a long time out for me or anyone else in this forum. Wish I had a red username!

this is kind of ironic seeing it's coming from you

 

[BaroqueSampson]

I think in this case the generalization is fair, seeing as the FGC seems to be standing behind Aris and his stupid comments. I have read the "explanation" of his actions but still playing to the stream monsters is not an excuse to act like a total pig.

A ton of members of the community are denouncing what Aris has done to Miranda and said about the community.

 

[V_Ben]

Aris is the minority. Basing all your viewpoints on the FGC on that one article isn't the brightest thing to do, but to each his own.

I like fighting games.

I've watched plenty of evo, and people seem generally supportive of each other, it's a great thing to see. But this guy? He's sub human scum, and shouldn't be let near another tournament for the rest of his life.

 

[Effect]

This kinda shit wouldn't happen in the Smash Bros. fighting community.

I don't pay much attention to fighting game communities as I'm not big on fighting games outside of Smash and even then that's limited. Is this true?

I'm certainly hoping it is. I do know from limited experience that some fans of other games do like to troll or belittle Smash as series and it's fans. Always hoped this was just a minority. Due to the nature of the game, like all Nintendo products I always figured fans, and hardcore ones, would be more decent (lack of a better word) in their behavior. You have kids young enough not to be insulting and adults that act like adults and not kids/teens wanting to be adult (the foul mouths you run into on CoD). I have a hard time seeing a complete ahole being a big fan or Smash Bros enough to choose it over other fighting games. Just the personality doesn't seem like that would be possible in general.

 

[carbonbased]

This quote really bothers me. Cool to see sites picking up and writing about this issue. We need more games journalists to write stuff like this surrounding the industry and it's cultures if we ever want it to improve.

that justification gets pulled out every. single. time. someone gets called out for their offensive behavior.

being asked to consider how others might feel and to think about what you are saying obviously equate to an oppressive government regime trampling on your rights! the pc police are coming to detain you!!

 

[Alucrid]

Wow, no one said ESPORTS yet.

But yeah, very stupid, especially being a sponsored thing, not that if it were a community only thing it would be any less reprehensible, you just think that they would know to hold their tongue.

 

[zlatko]

so we have a thread about this now

Welcome to the new #esports battlefield.

How many will we lose in this thread?

Really though I haven't voiced an opinion on any of this, because the megathread's 50 some pages has made it hard to just voice one if you took into account everything available for information, and of course the fact that the people involved and closer to the events don't even want shit to do with it.

Probably best to just watch this play out.

 

[dallow_bg]

Wow, what a piece of crap.

 

[JoeBoy101]

So, in case everyone in here isn't following the megathread, it should probably should be noted that Aris is still involved in the competition despite all of this.

Make of that what you wish.

I will take it what it is: tacit approval of his comments. If they want to make the point that those comments are against their rules, he should be kicked out.

 

[Nyoro SF]

I would say the mass majority of the FGC do not support Aris's statements. Rather, we denounce people who write articles who say we all support Aris's attitude.

The generalizations have kept rolling in and it's quite shocking that you can take one person's horrible thoughts and assign them to thousands of people you've never met or talked to, such as me.

 

[Rice-Eater]

We've probably had 1000+ responses to this debate in the mega thread and now it gets its own topic. Well I guess that was the only way for the rest of the gaming thread to find out how the hell our thread reached 10k in just a week with probably only 30-40 dedicated posters.

As for Aris's statement. He may have made it sound like his views are those of the old school FGC but they're not. Valle the other coach on this show and he is about as old school as it gets and one of the classiest guys out there in the FGC. Stuff like this happens like it happens everywhere else, but this is certainly not the majority of the FGC.

 

[duckroll]

Aris is the minority. Basing all your viewpoints on the FGC on that one article isn't the brightest thing to do, but to each his own.

I like fighting games.

The fighting game community can be great. Aris is a shit-talker who should have no place in the community as it is today.

 

[rukland]

A ton of members of the community are denouncing what Aris has done to Miranda and said about the community.

Links? Because so far all I have seen is the occasional supporter telling people not to judge the FGC as we are outsiders.

EDIT: I am not trying to judge one way or the other on this issue yet. I fully see that not all the information has been put into a good place to read it. Just at this point I have very little to go by. I am a big watcher of streams, admittedly with no volume so I miss alot of things. I really like parts of the FGC and wish it no ill will.

 

[sephi22]

We've had about 8 bans in the other thread due to this issue.
Think before you type, people.

 

[Sophia]

Aris is a good guy. He didn't articulate his point well at all, and used really stupid examples as you can see by the quotes, but he isn't this monster that you guys are thinking he is.

As a girl and fan of fighting games, I don't think comments like this...

"This is a community that’s, you know, 15 or 20 years old, and the sexual harassment is part of a culture, and if you remove that from the fighting game community, it’s not the fighting game community--it’s StarCraft."

.. qualify someone as being a "good guy." It certainly does however paint him as someone unwelcoming, and the community standing behind him doesn't exactly make me want to be a part of it at all.

 

[ponpo]

I'm not surprised that this show had misogynistic 'drama', I was just expecting it to be based around Dr. Sub Zero.

Also if there is a plus to all of this it's all of the Triforce rants!

 

[ElFly]

As long as we keep in mind Aris =/= The FGC, I guess it's okay for discussion to exist here too.

I wouldn't say that:

People tend to forget this, but Aris was doing it for the stream monsters. He didn't start harassing Miranda till people started spamming 'Miranda's thighs!!!'. Aris got the idea that this was what the monsters found entertaining so he started teasing Miranda about it. He thought Miranda would play along and feed the trolls.

People also forget that Aris didn't ask Miranda her bra size because he wanted to know it. He asked it because the chat was asking Aris to ask Miranda certain questions. I saw 'Miranda how are you so thick for a white girl?' in the chat and Aris straight up asked her that a minute later. He thought this stuff would entertain the stream monsters and make people watch the show.

I also think Aris couldn't have thought Miranda would react the way she did. Aris has been around stream monsters for years and he knows how to react to them. Miranda doesn't. I don't think Aris thought it was harassment, he just thought it was stupid fun. Dr. Sub-Zero also knows how to react to stream monsters. Stream asked "Do you like dicks?". John said "Yeah. I love dicks. Two at the same time.". This was a new thing for Miranda, and she couldn't handle it.

TLDR: Aris isn't sexist. He was saying stuff the stream monsters asked him to say, and didn't realize that Miranda would take them personally. My 2 cents.

Aris basically represented what the people watching the stream wanted to do, and saw no problem doing super creepy stuff because he was asked to. He is so immersed in this culture that being sexist doesn't seem wrong to him. He probably thinks he is not sexist, and even there are people on gaf who will tell you he is not sexist.

This is the most basic kind of behaviour that the kiddy question "Would you jump off a bridge if your friends did it" tries to prevent.

That's the skewed vision of the world that Aris and the people who watch the show share.

 

[h3ro]

I've already said my piece in the Cross Assault thread. Painting with broad brushes is never a good thing. I dislike that some of these articles are turning this into Aris representing the FGC has a whole. NO WAY.

The GB crew do great work and thank you to Patrick Klepek for doing his usual, thorough investigating. Not a fan of the other articles, they seem more of the click bating type.

 

[lowhighkang_LHK]

At the penny arcade story link they have a picture of KOR. Poor guy didn't do anything LOL.

 

[enzo_gt]

Links? Because so far all I have seen is the occasional supporter telling people not to judge the FGC as we are outsiders.

About 2000 posts across the megathread, and various after-hours discussions on multiple streams (Marns, LI Joe's, TriForce's, etc.).

And you shouldn't judge the FGC based on one individual's actions.

 

[PsychoSoldier]

Aris is the minority. Basing all your viewpoints on the FGC on that one article isn't the brightest thing to do, but to each his own.

I like fighting games.

I love fighting game, but the way everyone involved in Cross Assault handled the situation puts a bad face on the community.

If Aris was booted out the door as soon as he started doing what he was doing on the second day, I can almost guarantee you none of this heat would have come down.

If the community hadn't been so determined to close ranks once people started sniffing around about this maybe there'd be more balanced pieces out there already. As I remember, when Haunts was contacted by Ben Kuchera, the reaction was not to try to write a serious reply, but to ask a stream monster for the response.

 

[Imm0rt4l]

Isn't Aris that Tekken dude with the beard who acted like a creep towards that transwoman player at EVO?

Yep