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Apple Media Event - 1080p AppleTV, 4G/LTE 2048x1536 iPad, same price, Mar 16th
- Thread starter RubxQub
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Sure, now Android looks prettier than iOS whilst still being open and awesome.
Whoops. Wrong response to a legitimate complaint.
Did I mention that all bans on junior members are permanent? No? Sorry about that.
NOW, BACK TO THE MUSIC
Oh come on, I don't think its legitimate for various reasons; I'll type them out after I've had breakfast.
Oh come on, I don't think its legitimate for various reasons; I'll type them out after I've had breakfast.
I was about to say, I don't think you'll have time for that.
What an incredibly biased and unsupported opinion.
Slurpy2k20
Member
Wow, garbaga finally banned? His trolling run was quite lengthy and blatant. Not sure why it took so long. Glad he won't be here to fuck up the actual reveal discussion.
How dare you cite math and reason
There's a reason they exactly quadrupled the resolution. That allows them two options, quad each pixel of previous iPad apps - which will look identical to the original ... or if they chose to scale, the math is quite simple to achieve decent upscaling.
Not owning an iOS device, how did Apple go about scaling original iPhone apps to retina? It's likely they'll do the same thing (though quite possible iOS 6 may offer both as options? though that's not really how Apple tends to roll).
The fact iOS UI isn't vector-based to begin with has always boggled my mind. Granted their resolution choices have typically made it easy to get around this, but long-term it's less work ... and would make moving things between different lines (AppleTV, iPad, iPhone, even Mac) trivial.
Regardless, <3 vectors as well.
1px on non-Retina app = 4px on iPhone 4(S).
We still have refrigerator to do that.
Slurpy2k20
Member
How does it 'boggle the mind'? Can you name one OS that IS vector based? Since it hasn't been done by anyone, ie. companies worth billions of dollars, I have to assume there's major technical issues to doing so, and isn't something trivial.
freenudemacusers
Member
eh, fridge may be super headinthesand stubborn about retina but he/she is actually discussing things from time to time, and not just dropping a 'boo hoo' when someone has a valid position on things.
garbaga was just living up to the username.
Slurpy2k20
Member
We still have a few days before the event, so I'm hoping it happens by then. He's worse than garbaga ever was.
D
Deleted member 22576
Unconfirmed Member
It really depends on the launch day for me. I don't really want to wait in line, but if its on a saturday or sunday I could tolerate it just to have it a day earlier than it would ship to me or whatever.
The problem with a wholly vector based UI is that it's resource intensive on mobile devices and you don't get pixel level control. You can't, for example, draw an icon that looks great both at very small and large sizes without sacrificing a level of detail.
Neven Mrgan had a piece on this: http://mrgan.tumblr.com/post/708404794/ios-app-icon-sizes
Redrawn after 64px:
Scaled all the way down:
The opposite, scaling small to large:
I don't think any mobile OS has a fully vector based UI. Bitmap images are fast (no rendering required) and give the designer more control.
Dreams-Visions
Member
that's actually really interesting. this is why having a diverse design team is important.
freenudemacusers
Member
That's a good point, individual elements will need to be adjusted to maintain legibility.
Very good points, I was about to mention the same thing in regards to icon scaling. It'll be interesting to see how iOS and app devs handle the x4 assets.
Buddha Beam
Banned
So I'm thinking about trading my iPad 1 32GB WiFi in at Amazon. Anyone have any experiences with this? I can get $290 for it, and I'd rather not get raped by eBay or deal with scammers on Craig's List. Or should I just sell it on Amazon instead?
I should have done this two weeks ago, I know. But I was lazy.
wut? They shouldn't look appreciably different.
Technically, it could look entirely identical depending on how they decide to do the scaling. At worst, it will look very similar.
For me personally, I suspect the opposite.
Much like how the original iMac's were cool at first, but in hindsight look like Fisher Price toys ... I kind of see that happening to the current aesthetic. The overly glossy/shiny/rounded look of iOS, Mac, and Win 7 may well be seen as too much at some point. It has veered pretty far in a certain direction, which is usually the hallmark of something that will not stand the test of time.
I can appreciate some finding 'Metro' a bit sterile, but if anything that's what will likely prevent it from ever becoming outdated. It may not always be the 'in thing', but its simplicity should always keep it viable. Regardless, there are certain UI elements from it that I think are definitely here to stay even if the squared/flat aesthetic loses favor. For example, its use of pivots are going to be ripped off ... heavily.
Actually speaking of pivots and the like, that's one of the things about Metro. While it may look sterile at times in pictures (though good use of color can certainly help in this regard), what is being done in motion is anything but sterile. Particularly the use of parallax makes the UI look extremely alive and active. It seems to almost breath, giving it a very modern feel while still maintaining elegance. It's almost like how certain 'simplistic' games look way better in motion than in stills.
That's what I assumed. In other words it will look identical.
Obviously they have the option to offer scaling, but since the results aren't always entirely predictable, I'm not sure that's the direction Apple will go in.
Oh I understand ... I should have been clearer, as I didn't necessarily mean for everything to be vector based. The point about arbitrary scaling though is a bit of a strawman in this case. We really aren't talking about scaling from anything to anything, and by ever increasing magnitudes. We can't expect iOS devices will quadruple ad nauseum because there's no real benefit in doing so. We're really only talking about one jump (for example, 64 to 128)The problem with a wholly vector based UI is that it's resource intensive on mobile devices and you don't get pixel level control. You can't, for example, draw an icon that looks great both at very small and large sizes without sacrificing a level of detail.
Neven Mrgan had a piece on this: http://mrgan.tumblr.com/post/708404794/ios-app-icon-sizes
Redrawn after 64px:
Scaled all the way down:
The opposite, scaling small to large:
I don't think any mobile OS has a fully vector based UI. Bitmap images are fast (no rendering required) and give the designer more control.
But the point is well taken. Certainly it's not viable for all parts of a UI and has some overhead.
Just curious but what real advantage do you expect LTE to give you? If I made the assumption you're in the US no network gets saturated 3G and availability sucks. Not only that but full 3G would already be reasonable for 1080p streaming if the caps weren't so bad.
Maybe my assumption of how much better LTE is incorrect so please correct me if it is. I currently have AT&T 3G on my iphone and it sucks really bad. I tried Verizon LTE at Best Buy and it was insanely fast compared to that. I don't really plan on streaming movies over LTE or anything but I think it'd be great to at least surf faster.
I'm honestly not even sure what the caps or file size download limit is on Verizon but I know I'd never pay for 3G. My work pays for my current iPhone but I'd never pay for that shitty service myself.
Slurpy2k20
Member
If your $800 going to go up in flames before Wednesday? Is whatever non-iPad thing you're going to buy going to disappear into oblivion before Wed? Just wait. Nothing will be confirmed before then.
Even though carriers don't max out the theoretical bandwidth of 3G, they usually get higher speeds with LTE.
I don't know whether this is an issue of overhead, QoS, or what, but that's the case. Just google for LTE speed comparisons.
Narpas Sword0
Member
Verizon lte smokes anything else and it's available in the top 200 cities and their suburbs. No comparison
....no Tobor... that's not.... what I meant, heh.
Pristine_Condition
Member
Yeah Verizon's network is generally better than AT&T's but that's a choice you can make with your plan. Verizon 4G vs 3G? Not a huge win.
It wouldn't surprise me if they were simply throttling it.
Really I just want to warn people about pissing money away on tech-spec bullet-points when it's really dependent on slum-lord telephone companies and won't reach it's full potential. I'm sure iPad3 will have LTE support but making a purchasing decision on "4G support" it is foolish because it's really no more than a buzzword.
Damn the trolling in this thread is too crazy, might as well just avoid this BS until the 7th and get the facts straight out and over with.
The thing is some networks have slower 3G than others. I would think that AT&T's problem is their network is overloaded with iPhone users which is why they are probably trying to get more spectrum.
The problem with LTE is that it drains batteries pretty fast but being a tablet I don't think it should be too much of a concern since it's your phone that you would need in emergencies and not your tablet.
The thing is some networks have slower 3G than others. I would think that AT&T's problem is their network is overloaded with iPhone users which is why they are probably trying to get more spectrum.
The problem with LTE is that it drains batteries pretty fast but being a tablet I don't think it should be too much of a concern since it's your phone that you would need in emergencies and not your tablet.
Gamecocks625
Member
Unfortunately, that wont' stop some in here.
However, that will likely add some spice to the thread that afternoon. I expect at least one meltdown when the screen is mentioned as being a retina display.
What are you talking about?? LTE 4G is absolutely not a buzzword, and if you're using 3G on Verizon, it's a huge upgrade over those slow speeds. ATT 3G is better than Verizon 3G, but LTE kills it. You really should look up different speed tests for various 4G/3G services.
peetfeet
Member
Tchu-Espresso
likes mayo on everthing and can't dance
This will be my first tablet. Im excited, although unsure how upscaled 1080p content will fare.
shira
Member
Evilore's finishing move is the best, but that was pretty badass.Oh, snap.
Somebody, hit the man's music, before he bans again!
I wonder if those Apple rumor sites pay Apple Store employees to open the boxes early. That must be tough being an Apple manager or something knowing you have iPad 3's in stock way ahead of launch.
Refrigerator
Member
Yep. The entire foundation of Metro is rooted in Latin languages - it ideally flows left to right as that relates to how our most Western languages are structured and formed. Grafting this UI onto non-Romance language wouldn't be optimal, but that doesn't posit that the overall design of the UI is a flaw per se. On the tablet the visual cues matter less because the UI can finally breathe in a landscape view. That's where this UI shines, IMO.
I don't think I'm ready to move away from the Apple ecosystem at this point, but I will likely pick up Windows 8 on a touchscreen device at some point to get a better feel for the system.
That's great and all, but that doesn't change the fact that I feel Retina to mean 300PPI. I truly believe that's what Steve Jobs meant at the time of his keynote, and I won't view the iPad 3 as having a true Retina-class display regradless of how it's marketed.
You're talking about Steve Jobs' hidden unknowable intent at the time of his keynote now? Holy shit.
Dreams-Visions
Member
either way, the screen will be fantastic and nobody will be complaining when they begin reading their first book on the iPad 3.
Refrigerator
Member
It's how I interpreted it. Admittedly I haven't watched the keynote since it happened, but I'm hesitant to throw viewing distance into the conversation as that is such an easy way for manufacturers to placate people into going back to even sub 200 PPI displays by simply mentioning 'oh, holding X device X feet away will give you the same Retina effect!'.
Again, that's my opinion for phone and tablet-sized displays.
Everything about PPI resolution should factor in viewing distance. That goes for displays, digital cameras, and digital prints. It's kind of the 'unknown factor' when it comes to consumers, because it's confusing and unclear.
It's like the megapixel wars in digicams - if people never crop, and only ever view online or print at small sizes, it's not necessary to go beyond a certain resolution. But the uniformed consumer doesn't care, just caring for a 'better numerical value', without knowing better.
Obviously, there's a case to be said for maybe wanting to future proof, like getting maximum quality incase you do something with it later.
Still, when it comes to displays, resolution absolutely effects your optimal viewing distance, so
I do appreciate you wanting 300 dpi, for example if you wanted to view around a foot away from your iPad (I know I actually often do when I'm in bed). But for the average use case, it's much further than that, so a slight decrease in DPI actually has the same effect of 'indiscernible pixels'. It's about what is typically used.
And of course, you're right, marketing may one day use the term for a given distance. But whatever, marketing has always been like that.
Circle T
Member
You should go back and watch then....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dIU13A_FE8o&t=8m30s
While unveiling the "Retina" display, Steve specifically said that the ~300ppi threshold is because of the average 10-12 inches that we hold phones away from our eyes when using them. At that distance, a display with over 300ppi makes individual pixels basically indistinguishable. We don't view tablets or laptops at the same distance we do a phone, so it would be very easy for them to claim that a tablet has a "Retina" display, even though it's only ~265ppi. I agree with the chart posted earlier. My 11" MacBook Air only has ~140ppi, but at the normal distance I view it from, I can't distinguish any individual pixels. I don't think they'll ever go so far as to say their laptops have "Retina" displays, but for phones and tablets, sure.
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