MarshMellow96
Member
You missed out the part about sexual harassment.
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Cross The Line - Sexual Assault... ok, maybe just Sexual Harassment!
- Thread starter The Faceless Master
- Start date
You missed out the part about sexual harassment.
Lazy vs Crazy
Member
Wait what?
SpacedCadette
Member
As a girl who use to actively participate in the FGC (at arcades and tournaments), the thing that I think Aris is really forgetting is the difference between being competitive and actually harassing someone. Feel free to say my Dudley is dog shit or that I played a weak game, but my gender should never be the reason behind it. Not only that, but he was barely even trash talking. Almost none of his commentary was directed towards how she played and was instead about her breasts, thighs, and how she smelled. All of which are widely inappropriate in any context.
Edited for bad typo.
Edited for bad typo.
Gentleman Jack
Member
Can we just finally ban Kotaku again? I feel like every hundred posts I make, I plea for this.
Why? Because it's negative attention?
Too busy and overloaded to talk but not so busy he can tweet once every two minutes in a display of exactly the kind of walled off defensive posture the Kotaku article brings up as an immature response to the debacle? Not a good look for Arturo.
QisTopTier
XisBannedTier
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=461782
Floe's Boshy stream thread. Where everyone that finds this stuff funny are horrible racist people and also sexist.
http://youtu.be/AuDFM5z3AOY
Floe's "greatest" rant
Dark Humor is the best way to describe it. Do the people saying this type of stuff actually feel like that? Well I can't say, I myself get a laugh out of it but I sure as fuck don't find it funny if real shit goes down. Joking about it in analogy form I have no issues with, using it as a threat or going through with actions related to stuff like that.... yeah fuck that.
Is south park banned yet? No it sure as fuck isn't. If someone directly did something at events and such and they got reported, you can bet your ass they will be out of there.
I skipped it cause it was irrelevant, smart ass talk that everyone and their mothers do when a situation like that exist in the world for laughs. If you want to criticize them, criticize them about the actual meat and bones there, not the sarcasm.
Floe's Boshy stream thread. Where everyone that finds this stuff funny are horrible racist people and also sexist.
http://youtu.be/AuDFM5z3AOY
Floe's "greatest" rant
Dark Humor is the best way to describe it. Do the people saying this type of stuff actually feel like that? Well I can't say, I myself get a laugh out of it but I sure as fuck don't find it funny if real shit goes down. Joking about it in analogy form I have no issues with, using it as a threat or going through with actions related to stuff like that.... yeah fuck that.
Is south park banned yet? No it sure as fuck isn't. If someone directly did something at events and such and they got reported, you can bet your ass they will be out of there.
I skipped it cause it was irrelevant, smart ass talk that everyone and their mothers do when a situation like that exist in the world for laughs. If you want to criticize them, criticize them about the actual meat and bones there, not the sarcasm.
la flama blanca
Banned
lol @ Kotaku. So fucking dumb, as always.
PsychoSoldier
Banned
Yeah, he can stream a bunch for blowup and gettin them three dollas but when people say stupid shit he can't take a minute to tweet his opinion on it.
Almost everyone is on their way to or at Final Round right now, tweeting on your phone is not the same as giving statements to the press.
Neato_Jinkins
Banned
this is a point which many people here seem incapable of absorbing despite repeated attempts to pound it into their skulls.
there's a difference between trash talking someone for superficial shit like skill at a game and going after someone for qualities intrinsic to who and what they are as a human being
Stabby McSter
Member
No, because they seem to have a knack of putting out shit articles.
PsychoSoldier
Banned
Oh Christ I just realized that was Marn on the mic. I'd guess MarkMan wants to punch him right about now.
broz0rs
Member
Yeah, just like Ocean Marketing a month or two ago.
The whole thing probably would have been kept to a minimum if the entirety of the FGC didn't rise up and start to white knight the dude. Some of those "I know what really goes on because i'm a member of the FGC and you're not" tweets are just asking for it. It just kept the fans of flames blowing and invited more and more people to argue the issue.
He also should have never apologized. This ain't a relationship. Apologies never fucking works in the internet, especially considering he doesn't represent an organization. The only apology he should have made is that he got caught and he shouldn't say shit in public like that again.
In the context of actual sexual harassment caught on video that happened not even a week ago, it is the meat and bones.
Sixfortyfive
He who pursues two rabbits gets two rabbits.
His apology wasn't even an apology. Textbook "I'm sorry you got offended" rather than "I'm sorry for saying shitty things."
Gentleman Jack
Member
About which any reasonable human being can come to their own conclusions. "I don't like that source ban it!" just seems too knee-jerk to be rational.
Maybe, but he still took an hour out of his schedule to gripe about how the truth was not getting out, which is a very ineffective way of getting the truth out and only serves to antagonize regardless. I guess my expectations should be lower?
And what points they're making result in this qualifying as one of them?
QisTopTier
XisBannedTier
It's not when you know the idiot who is on the mic.
Others have already pointed out that the Starcraft community isn't exactly some corporatized safe haven from sexual harassment and misogyny, despite what some in the FGC might think. Here are two articles on the subject:
http://thehathorlegacy.com/sexual-harassment-for-female-players-in-starcraft2-thread/
http://www.themarysue.com/all-about-eve-the-story-of-starcraft-2s-first-female-pro/
http://thehathorlegacy.com/sexual-harassment-for-female-players-in-starcraft2-thread/
http://www.themarysue.com/all-about-eve-the-story-of-starcraft-2s-first-female-pro/
It was Marn.
ETA and UPA responding to a pic of NOS girls.
Then Floe.
It's what we like to call big damage. I want a CVS3.
You mean one of the faces of the FGC, someone that the uninitiated see as being representative of the whole? Just sayin.
QisTopTier
XisBannedTier
If you mean representative as the butt of jokes, then yeah. People that take things at face value and the paint a brush across everything off that are genearly not so great people themselves.
Marn acts like a total idiot. Everyone that spends even 15 mins looking into things would figure that out.
wsoxfan1214
Banned
So you make your argument on something almost entirely unrelated to the video in question (while also insulting everyone in the topic), but then throw the possibility out there that maybe--just MAYBE--they wouldn't find it funny as a "threat" or actual "related actions". Of course the people find it funny in analogy form like you do. Who the hell would legitimately find that shit funny if it actually happened? Pretty sure I'm not racist either, but thanks for insisting I am.
So you not only insult a bunch of people randomly, but then admit you find the same stuff funny before explaining why they're not such bad people after all. Correct me if I'm misunderstanding your post, but it seems entirely pointless in that context. Hoping your post was sarcasm or something, as I get a sense that it could have been.
SousedLouse
Member
Dude, that doesn't really help. You can't deflect criticism from one group by pointing out how badly another group fucks up from time to time as well. This might be a valid point of discussion if people were still saying that everyone needs to take a page from MLG/E-Sports/whatever, but that hasn't been mentioned in a good while. Your post just comes off as reaching, that's all I'm saying.
edit: I'll say this, though: if you were just trying to show that this sort of harassment goes beyond fighting game players, you won't find much opposition on that front. It's a problem that stems from (and I loathe to use the term because it's so loaded, but I can't think of another one at the moment) gamer culture as a whole. But the point of this thread is to discuss this incident, and some posters are hoping that this can be a start for some genuine change, where similar incidents have not.
Or to stroke their own egos by painting people they don't know as bigots, apologists and numbskulls with broad strokes and almost no tact, while invoking absolute moral superiority to boot. That happens too.
*back to lurking*
PsychoSoldier
Banned
For those of you not in the know, Marn (the person making the joke) is a sponsored player.
Probably not for long though.
Probably not for long though.
He's self sponsored.
Hard to fire yourself bro.
Floe, though, is a sponsored player, but he's not gonna get anything while shit like this flies.
QisTopTier
XisBannedTier
Sarcasm sure is hard to get across online
it wasn't insulting everyone in the thread. It's why I brought up south park as well. maybe I should put the links at the bottom of the post and not the top =/ I watch that damn boshy stream every night til it goes off. It's point was in relevance to the WNF event.
notworksafe
Member
He owns EG now? I knew dude was rich but damn...
Yes, EG is a corporate-owned subsidiary of Team Marn.
Obvious sarcasm
Sixfortyfive
He who pursues two rabbits gets two rabbits.
Given the context of what's happening, why even let someone everyone knows is an idiot onto the mic?
wsoxfan1214
Banned
Sarcasm sure is hard to get across online
Yeah, I just edited in a line at the end of mine because I noticed it could have been sarcasm. Was hard to tell.
QisTopTier
XisBannedTier
He's sponsored by mad catz and himself
Because everyone in the community for the most part have become close friends over time. Valle can even get along with and have fun with marn at times. Just in different ways. That video is a short clip of a night long event. It's like how the worst parts are always the parts that get shown over the funny or good memories.
Didn't Marn already get let go from EG? I thought that happened then he later got sponsored by MadCatz.
notworksafe
Member
ThatCrazyGuy
Member
I thought Marn quit EG, then won some money or something, signed Krone, then now is sponsored my madcatz.
PsychoSoldier
Banned
Yeah his tag is usually MCZ|MRN Marn.
If he throws himself under the bus, fine, but god dammit Wolfkrone's going to catch some of this too.
Sixfortyfive
He who pursues two rabbits gets two rabbits.
Wolfkrone is the most introverted dude in the scene and gives shoutouts to God after winning tournaments.
He'll be fine.
freenudemacusers
Member
Marn exposing his immaturity for the world to see. Well done.
QisTopTier
XisBannedTier
You should of seen the idiot's twitter on the weekend before he deleted half his post.
PsychoSoldier
Banned
notworksafe
Member
I realize they're friends. But this I think is a bigger deal than the jokes themselves. It doesn't seem like the FGC is taking this as a serious issue at all. It's just a joking matter, something that'll blow over in a couple of days. inkblot's statement notwithstanding.
If you're actually trying to let the outside media know that 'hey, we're not really like that', then you keep someone who'll make exactly that sort of joke off mic.
Edit: And for people claiming that this is sensationalistic, you should be aware that if they wanted to dig they could find a lot more dirt. It'd take more work, naturally, but there's all sorts of streams out there from after the Miranda thing. Hell, marn was on stream with mike ross, and I couldn't watch the whole thing in archive. So if they wanted to cherrypick the very worst, they could probably do much worse.
I'm not trying to deflect criticism; I don't even follow the FGC much outside of EVO. I'm trying to shine a light on the fact that these attitudes are endemic throughout most gaming communties, like Starcraft, or Bioware RPG nerds, or even Pokemon (actually, probably even more for Pokemon, considering that age group), and to a more general extent, human society at large. We shouldn't get content in our little ivory towers looking down upon the vices of some other community.
Edit: just saw your edit, and that's basically what I'm getting at.
His backstory does not matter if he's the one whose face and voice are on these streams. This "broad brush" defense is kinda silly. What do people expect when these are the public faces and voices of the scene (like it or not)? Of course people are going to judge the scene based on the people representing it. If someone turns on a PBA bowling event and sees similar behavior from the faces and voices, they're going to attribute it to the whole PBA environment. The whole issue here is to fix the problem so people have no reason to make such broad classifications. It's obviously present. Brushing it off as people not taking the time to research individuals is ignoring the problem.
SousedLouse
Member
Nope, he's sponsored by Mad Catz just like Marn. Already tainted. If someone has an ax to grind against Marn, they'll naturally go after his sponsor and anyone even remotely involved with them. But Markman has been fairly reasonable about the initial fallout, and I'd assume that Mad Catz will do something about Marn's comments.
QisTopTier
XisBannedTier
Oh they are taking it very seriously after all this crap is blowing up in their faces, think of it as venting out stress. Sure it comes off stupid as hell. But most people are tense as fuck right now about everything. Having a smart ass idiot on the mic like marn might make everyone look like they don't care to the world, but overall the whole lightheartedness and energy is what everyone is in need for right now.
Where is the video of Valle shouting in marns face doing an SRK to his chin irl after a ryu vs ryu match for shits and giggles while people around marn hold up signs saying fruad and HOLD DAT. Where is the stuff that happened after that. Where is the talk about Floes boshy references and such.
No where, you can't make news off it.
And yes there is FAR WORSE THINGS the media could dig up if they wanted to waaaaaay worse things. A shame the good things that happen won't be talked about just as much.
PsychoSoldier
Banned
That there exist worse things in the world does not make any news about this event less relevant.
And considering that places like Kotaku are general gaming websites it's not shocking that they would not spend time covering every little neat thing that happens in the fighting game community.
They cover things that they think people outside genre-specific communities might find of interest.
And considering that places like Kotaku are general gaming websites it's not shocking that they would not spend time covering every little neat thing that happens in the fighting game community.
They cover things that they think people outside genre-specific communities might find of interest.
I'm in class right now but watched WNF last night. I don't seem to remember any outright awful dialogue about women. I remember, what sounded like, some guys joking around. I'm not saying there wasn't anything sexually offensive in the video but can someone post direct quotes or something since I can't listen? I'm curious what specifics were said to cause such outrage.
QisTopTier
XisBannedTier
Toss in omg dude THAT'S SEXUAL HARASSMENT CANT TALK ABOUT THAT STUFF!!!! while laughing and ya that's the gist of it
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