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[PsychoSoldier]

Overall because alot of it isn't that there is even these things, it's that they are just common terms used that often end up being totally seperated from the negatives.

Like we have steams all the time with black guys saying nigga, not a single one of these men are talking down to one another yet it can easily be seen as a racist term.

Same thing with the hype matches with someone kick that bitches ass when Pheonix/Wesker comes out.

It's not like these guys/women are being sexist or racist, they are being hype.

There are clearly things that people say when getting hype that would be pretty damn offensive to a great deal of people.

The problem is that in a lot of contexts, there is a shared acceptance of those terms as being acceptable, but then you get problems once people from different backgrounds who don't find those terms acceptable. which is one way of fostering an insular identity that discourages outsiders from joining in.

When a dude yells "rape that bitch" in a room full of other dudes it's just getting hype and maybe no one else will care, but once there's a woman in the room that phrase takes on an entirely new meaning, even if they understand that it's not targeted at them in particular. This is compounded when the women are outnumbered.

So, either you keep these potentially offensive words that you consider hype and potentially alienate people who might want to engage with you or you tone your shit down a bit to make things a little less hostile. I don't think you can have it both ways, honestly.

 

[ElFly]

some FGC dude: no... er... yes... er... he's got a point but Aris is getting crucified

Crucified?

Really, guys?

A guy who could very well be sued for sexual harassment is being crucified by some criticism on the internet?

Maybe he could grow some of the fucking tick skin that so many here expect people to have in the FGC.

 

[ViewtifulJC]

Is not the same with what Aris did to Miranda. He does not know the girl on that level, and he over stepped boundaries, and down right assaulted that female.

Is anyone understand what I am trying to say?

Very much like Aris, I see what you're trying to say...but you also say some REALLY stupid shit that kinda covers up whatever point you were trying to make.

Lets just tackle the elephant in the room here. Are you seeing because someone insulted another, verbally, they should be in prison, yes? That is...that is what you believe?

I just want to know where you're coming from so I can see how to talk to someone with that "unique" viewpoint.

 

[PsychoSoldier]

I think that there might be basis for a lawsuit, for sure, but I don't think that sexual harassment is considered a criminal offense that would require jail time.

 

[OpinionatedCyborg]

wow. I wonder how long this guy has been bullying and harassing women without anyone telling him he's in the wrong. He's so comfortable making demeaning and inappropriate comments even when the chick is obviously uncomfortable and at times telling him he's being a creep (even if he was socially retarded, the fact that she literally tells him he's being a creep should've clued him in that he had crossed the line). I couldn't stand being around this guy if he was carrying on like this. Hopefully more people in their community will grow some balls and stand up to people like him.

 

[enzo_gt]

Why are Phoenix and Wesker classified as such?

They were/are very good characters, and it wouldn't be Mahvel if there wasn't some goddamn cheap bullshit to get angry at.

 

[PrinceOfApathy]

Very much like Aris, I see what you're trying to say...but you also say some REALLY stupid shit that kinda covers up whatever point you were trying to make.

Lets just tackle the elephant in the room here. Are you seeing because someone insulted another, verbally, they should be in prison, yes? That is...that is what you believe?

I just want to know where you're coming from so I can see how to talk to someone with that "unique" viewpoint.

Aris didn't only assault her verbally. He went into her personal space, and actually "smelled" her. That is a clear violation and a no-no, and if he was anywhere else besides that show he would be smacked.

People in the real world say dumb, rude and crude crap all the time. Even today I was crossing the road, and a delivery guy on his bike had to adjust himself around me, and dropped the " Watch it F-bomb on me ", and not fornification F-bomb. Do I want him arrested hell no, I yelled back with my own obscenity.

Aris however violated every rule imaginable. He was told to stop verbally harassing her, and he even took it further by violating personal space and making her uncomfortable, the only thing that bastard didn't do was touch her in a really bad spot. He should be jailed.

 

[udivision]

I think that there might be basis for a lawsuit, for sure, but I don't think that sexual harassment is considered a criminal offense that would require jail time.

I'm curious. If there was a trial, would (the video of) her reaction to it work against her? Or would that even matter?

 

[rCIZZLE]

stopped the call cause they knew it was triforce

Ya that'd wouldn't have been interesting. I like how Joe went from pretty forgotten to a face of the FGC in about 4 days.

 

[PsychoSoldier]

They were/are very good characters, and it wouldn't be Mahvel if there wasn't some goddamn cheap bullshit to get angry at.

It's hard to even hate Phoenix now, she doesn't seem very good

 

[POWERSPHERE]

http://UnsocialisedDeadshitsSayDumbStuff.com

 

[ViewtifulJC]

Aris however violated every rule imaginable. He was told to stop verbally harassing her, and he even took it further by violating personal space and making her uncomfortable, the only thing that bastard didn't do was touch her in a really bad spot. He should be jailed.

Hmm

I think we're done here. But please be aware that "in the real world", people don't get thrown in jail because they say mean words and/or smell people's "really bad spots". Perhaps you're in another part of the Real World that I don't live in.

 

[freenudemacusers]

It's hard to even hate Phoenix now, she doesn't seem very good

Who is taking her annoying place right now? Morrigan maybe?

 

[PrinceOfApathy]

Hmm

I think we're done here. But please be aware that "in the real world", people don't get thrown in jail because they say mean words and/or smell people's "really bad spots". Perhaps you're in another part of the Real World that I don't live in.

I personally believe he should be locked up for his antics. However as everyone mostly knows the most she can do is sue, sadly. To me its despicable he could just get away with a slap on the wrist.

And I never said anyone should get locked up for saying something nasty. Nowhere in any of my posts have I said that.

 

[PsychoSoldier]

I'm curious. If there was a trial, would (the video of) her reaction to it work against her? Or would that even matter?

I don't know, but I'm imagining it might for some people but given the amount of stuff that happens and the fact that she says he's acting like a creep and then he doesn't stop would probably offset that.

But the other infamous video would probably look really bad for him even with context.

 

[OpinionatedCyborg]

Aris didn't only assault her verbally. He went into her personal space, and actually "smelled" her. That is a clear violation and a no-no, and if he was anywhere else besides that show he would be smacked.

People in the real world say dumb, rude and crude crap all the time. Even today I was crossing the road, and a delivery guy on his bike had to adjust himself around me, and dropped the " Watch it F-bomb on me ", and not fornification F-bomb. Do I want him arrested hell no, I yelled back with my own obscenity.

Aris however violated every rule imaginable. He was told to stop verbally harassing her, and he even took it further by violating personal space and making her uncomfortable, the only thing that bastard didn't do was touch her in a really bad spot. He should be jailed.

He should be removed from all future Capcom-affiliated tournaments and any teams he manages or is a part of should terminate him.

I haven't seen all of the videos. If he touched her inappropriately, then it could have crossed the line into sexual assault, which is criminal. Otherwise, it's a civil matter. I highly doubt anyone involved in this is going to press charges of any sort, but the community and sponsors should treat this as they would sexual harassment in the workplace and get rid of this guy, at least for a few years so he can clean up his act and reflect on what he did.

 

[Busaiku]

It's hard to even hate Phoenix now, she doesn't seem very good

Yeah, that's why no one yells all those obscenities when she's out.
Jared was referring to the days of vanilla.

 

[Stabby McSter]

Who is taking her annoying place right now? Morrigan maybe?

yoooooo i hate morrigan. she ruins my strider level 3 stupid shit play.

 

[SpacedCadette]

I'm curious. If there was a trial, would (the video of) her reaction to it work against her? Or would that even matter?

Something that guys don't always get is that a lot of girls laugh when they're uncomfortable because being confrontational could make the situation worse.

 

[faceless007]

Hmm

I think we're done here. But please be aware that "in the real world", people don't get thrown in jail because they say mean words and/or smell people's "really bad spots". Perhaps you're in another part of the Real World that I don't live in.

"Fighting words" are not protected speech and subject to prosecution, and smelling someone's "bad spots" without their permission is unquestionably sexual assault. So yes, they do.

 

[Warpticon]

Something that guys don't always get is that a lot of girls laugh when they're uncomfortable because being confrontational could make the situation worse.

That's not even necessarily a girl thing. Lots of people buckle when teased if it seems like everybody else is unfazed. yes, ideally, somebody who is bothered should speak up as soon as possible. But that's an idealistic position that doesn't account for different personality types and stages in personal development. It's just unfair to expect every person to be that assertive.

 

[SpacedCadette]

That's not even necessarily a girl thing. Lots of people buckle when teased if it seems like everybody else is unfazed. yes, ideally, somebody who is bothered should speak up as soon as possible. But that's an idealistic position that doesn't account for different personality types and stages in personal development. It's just unfair to expect every person to be that assertive.

Certainly. As you said, It's particularly hard when surrounded by a group of people that are all participating in it, which is compounded by the fact that in this case it's being streamed live. Plus the fact that it was of a sexual nature only really adds to the unease that she was probably feeling. It was a very unfair situation to be put into and I really feel for her.

 

[Harlock]

This guy Aris is ugly like hell. Is not surprise he get a problem with women.

 

[alstein]

If anyone thinks this isn't damaging, other non-FG oriented sites have had discussions on this as well, and the general gist is "that's just the way those lowlifes are", and as critical as I was on here, I had to defend the FGC other places because there were plenty of folks like Row.

The FGC's reputation is very bad right now, it needs to be repaired, and that will take time and effort.

And before you say this stuff doesn't impact the community. An oldschool friend of mine who has quit fighters, but wants to come back for VF5FS, says he's reconsidering, just because he doesn't want this community dragging him down as he's trying to build up his life. The dude was a seriously awesome player, one of the best Sarah players in the US.

He actually said he didn't want VF to become too popular with the mainstream community, because he was afraid of the garbage they'd bring to the VF community. I was like, wow, but I understood what he maent.

 

[MThanded]

I'm curious. If there was a trial, would (the video of) her reaction to it work against her? Or would that even matter?

Have no impact. Many people in such situations try to laugh or brush it off. Doesn't change anything about the act that occured.

 

[y2dvd]

He should be removed from all future Capcom-affiliated tournaments and any teams he manages or is a part of should terminate him.

Agrees with this. In the real world, he'd easily get fired from his job doing this. You have to show that this is unacceptable and make an example outta him, in which he brought upon himself.

 

[jimmypop]

GiantBomb brought me here, and I knew the neckbeards would be out in force rationalizing this momo's comments. CTRL-F'd for "community" and "scene" on each page of the thread, then had a bit of a chuckle.

This Aris guy is an idiot, and what he said was both ridiculous and indefensible. To say otherwise is to not have any context for appropriate interactions with other humans.

 

[alstein]

There's stupid reactions on both sides.

Other gaming sites are portraying the entire community as being like Aris, whereas the FGC has folks trying to whitewash this away.

 

[Doomshine]

Is it that hard for people to see the difference between defending him and defending his actions? NO ONE that matters is defending what he did.

 

[Lost Fragment]

Is it that hard for people to see the difference between defending him and defending his actions? NO ONE that matters is defending what he did.

When humans expect to see something, we're very good at seeing it even if it's not there.

 

[suzu]

Hopefully this dude will learn from this and grow the fuck up (along with all those who are agreeing with him, or trying to make light of this). It's sad this type of behavior was/is being tolerated at all.

 

[AdamBot]

"My statements do not reflect those of Capcom or myself."

Oh well no harm done then.

 

[erragal]

The one point that sticks out most in my mind throughout this thread and across the internet spectrum are individuals attempting to rationalize his actions based on the victims 'shifting stories' and unwillingness to 'leave'.

That's a complete joke and shows how poorly educated the public is as to how victims actually respond to harassment. Often the initial response is to simply allow it to happen so the status quo can be maintained; fear of future consequences/reprisal is often far greater than the potential relief of temporary abatement. Her primary thought was probably "Now I'm just going to get harassed even more for being a 'rat' or 'not one of the guys' and even ostracized". And considering their actions why wouldn't she be worried?

Even worse were comments that she should have 'left to avoid it, that's just what you do'. Really? One hundred years after sufferage and we still have people that think like this? Even for the anonymous internet this is disappointing.


These factors are also why it takes the entire community to actually care and there shouldn't be the slightest bit of defense for any of the individuals having acted this way. I understand the offense some members take at being 'lumped in' with him because of the way he spoke but the fact that any sizable portion of the community actually agreed with him showed there's some underlying current of acceptability to this behaviour; no one would act like that in public repeatedly over time unless the behaviour was encouraged and even rewarded.

Just a sad state of affairs overall.

 

[Deleted member 47027]

The one point that sticks out most in my mind throughout this thread and across the internet spectrum are individuals attempting to rationalize his actions based on the victims 'shifting stories' and unwillingness to 'leave'.

That's a complete joke and shows how poorly educated people as to how victims actually respond to harassment. Often the initial response is to simply allow it to happen so the status quo can be maintained; fear of future consequences/reprisal is often far greater than the potential relief of temporary abatement. Her primary thought was probably "Now I'm just going to get harassed even more for being a 'rat' or 'not one of the guys' and even ostracized".

Even worse were comments that she should have 'left to avoid it, that's just what you do'. Really? One hundred years after sufferage and we still have people that think like this? Even for the anonymous internet this is disappointing.


These factors are also why it takes the entire community to actually care and there shouldn't be the slightest bit of defense for any of the individuals having acted this way. I understand the offense some members take at being 'lumped in' with him because of the way he spoke but the fact that any sizable portion of the community actually agreed with him showed there's some underlying current of acceptability to this behaviour; no one would act like that in public repeatedly over time unless the behaviour was encouraged and even rewarded.

Just a sad state of affairs overall.

Completely agree. The point is that this situation should NEVER have happened.

 

[Doomshine]

Let's inject some positivity into this thread, saw this tweeted by Kayane, footage from WGC 2012:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_WTrzZi6kOU

https://twitter.com/#!/KayaneChan/status/175245968764190720

 

[erpg]

Looks like they can learn a lot from France.

 

[Lost Fragment]

Looks like they can learn a lot from France.

In what way? It's a nice video, but it's a pretty standard tournament recap video.

 

[Bizazedo]

When a dude yells "rape that bitch" in a room full of other dudes it's just getting hype and maybe no one else will care, but once there's a woman in the room that phrase takes on an entirely new meaning, even if they understand that it's not targeted at them in particular. This is compounded when the women are outnumbered.

Did Max get flamed at all when his epic rap battle of Wesker vs Doom had the line from Wesker
"I'm the staple OTG you're exposed and raped with" or something?

 

[freenudemacusers]

Looks like they can learn a lot from France.

not sure if serious

 

[PsychoSoldier]

It appears as if the community's response as a whole will be to forgive the dude and give him another chance.

Like I said, I don't necessarily agree with that stance, but I don't have any pull in this matter so all I can say is I truly hope their faith in him is not misplaced and it does not embolden people to behave badly.

And with that, I'm done with this discussion for now, barring truly new developments. When I saw what I saw on Sunday it truly, truly disturbed me so I've spent more time and energy thinking about this than I perhaps should have.

Hopefully the scene is better for it, and though I'm sure I'll be watching Final Round this weekend, I think I'll probably skip the Cross Assault portion of the show.

 

[alstein]

Let's inject some positivity into this thread, saw this tweeted by Kayane, footage from WGC 2012:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_WTrzZi6kOU

https://twitter.com/#!/KayaneChan/status/175245968764190720

And Kayane's twitter, if you look down it , she says that what happened as Cross Assault is exactly what the community didn't need, when things are going so well. Also said it wouldn't happen in France. The tweets in French she sounds kinda angry about what went down.

 

[Doomshine]

And Kayane's twitter, if you look down it , she says that what happened as Cross Assault is exactly what the community didn't need, when things are going so well. Also said it wouldn't happen in France. The tweets in French she sounds kinda angry about what went down.

Yeah I saw that, but I didn't want to turn this into some US vs France argument, which still happened somehow. I felt it was worth mentioning that a female member of the community didn't think it was representative of how the community actually is.

 

[notworksafe]

He actually said he didn't want VF to become too popular with the mainstream community, because he was afraid of the garbage they'd bring to the VF community.

Luckily for him, there is zero chance of that.

 

[supahkiwi]

Lol, look what article Kotaku just posted up:

http://kotaku.com/5889637/fighting-...p-hit-on-cross-assault-harassment-controversy

Apparently they're criticizing Level UP's WNF stream now

 

[alstein]

Yeah I saw that, but I didn't want to turn this into some US vs France argument, which still happened somehow. I felt it was worth mentioning that a female member of the community didn't think it was representative of how the community actually is.

It isn't representative of the whole community, but it's more then just a handful of isolated neckbeards. It's in the middle.

This is why I'm been critical on this board, and defending on another board.

 

[Kikujiro]

The one point that sticks out most in my mind throughout this thread and across the internet spectrum are individuals attempting to rationalize his actions based on the victims 'shifting stories' and unwillingness to 'leave'.

That's a complete joke and shows how poorly educated the public is as to how victims actually respond to harassment. Often the initial response is to simply allow it to happen so the status quo can be maintained; fear of future consequences/reprisal is often far greater than the potential relief of temporary abatement. Her primary thought was probably "Now I'm just going to get harassed even more for being a 'rat' or 'not one of the guys' and even ostracized". And considering their actions why wouldn't she be worried?

Even worse were comments that she should have 'left to avoid it, that's just what you do'. Really? One hundred years after sufferage and we still have people that think like this? Even for the anonymous internet this is disappointing.

You may be right, but you can't expect everybody to be informed about how victims react, since there isn't only one answer.
During the first day Aris harassed Miranda, I remember people calling him a creep in the OT, but it didn't seem to affect her that much. In fact later that day another gamer girl (Starslayer) wrote a post saying how the show was hard to watch because of the sexual harassment. When Miranda was informed about that post she called her (Starslayer) an idiot and that the scene was like that. I was pretty surprised since I found Aris behaviour creepy, but listening to Miranda calling someone who was defending her an idiot, I didn't know what to think.
This is not to excuse Aris, but you can't just say everybody should've known better because victims of sexual harassments always act like that. After Miranda broke on twitter I was again surprised because I remembered that incident with Starslayer, I asked myself, why did she called her an idiot when she was defending her?

That video of the WGC isn't really indicative, but I'm sure the French scene, or EU scene in general, is a lot more chill. Thank god you don't see people like Aris who yell how much the fighting scene is all about rawness, hostility, cursing and sexism and that's already a big difference.

 

[Lost Fragment]

Lol, look what article Kotaku just posted up:

http://kotaku.com/5889637/fighting-...p-hit-on-cross-assault-harassment-controversy

Apparently they're criticizing Level UP's WNF stream now

lol. They must pissed that they didn't get their own article up on this whole debacle up in a timely matter, so they create their own news to feign righteous indignation about.

 

[kirblar]

Lol, look what article Kotaku just posted up:

http://kotaku.com/5889637/fighting-...p-hit-on-cross-assault-harassment-controversy

Apparently they're criticizing Level UP's WNF stream now

Can we rename internet games journalism "Trolling for page hits"?

 

[PsychoSoldier]

Lol, look what article Kotaku just posted up:

http://kotaku.com/5889637/fighting-...p-hit-on-cross-assault-harassment-controversy

Apparently they're criticizing Level UP's WNF stream now

Well, people are going to be watching more closely now. If similar things are said this weekend, expect people to notice.

 

[notworksafe]

Well, people are going to be watching more closely now. If similar things are said this weekend, expect people to notice.

Eh, it'll be a story only until the next round of gaming-related layoffs or some major release. Gaming news sites have the attention span of a gnat.