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[DopeyFish]

Guys, you do understand that Doom 3 was kind of a reimagining of Doom 1 and Doom 2 was set on Earth and had a "Hell on Earth" subtitle in the readme, right? Why is it such a surprise to some of you that a sequel to Doom 4 would be a reimagining of Doom 2 and, as Doom 2, will be set on Earth?

I'm surprised people never knew doom 2 had a title of "Hell on Earth"

Afaik the only place it didn't say hell on earth was the title screen

 

[jim-jam bongs]

Guys, you do understand that Doom 3 was kind of a reimagining of Doom 1 and Doom 2 was set on Earth and had a "Hell on Earth" subtitle in the readme, right? Why is it such a surprise to some of you that a sequel to Doom 4 would be a reimagining of Doom 2 and, as Doom 2, will be set on Earth?

 

[peakish]

I'm surprised people never knew doom 2 had a title of "Hell on Earth"

Afaik the only place it didn't say hell on earth was the title screen

To be fair, like some have pointed out, it doesn't resemble Earth that much though. But nontheless it is something the series has explored before and I'd love for them to try to make a demon invasion justice now that the tech has advanced - it doesn't have to be in space to be Doom to me.

Now what I want is more pentagrams and other hellish elements, but we have no idea of the context of these images.

 

[Dai101]

Guys, you do understand that Doom 3 was kind of a reimagining of Doom 1 and Doom 2 was set on Earth and had a "Hell on Earth" subtitle in the readme, right? Why is it such a surprise to some of you that a sequel to Doom 4 would be a reimagining of Doom 2 and, as Doom 2, will be set on Earth?

Because people didn't play Doom nor Doom II?

 

[Ifrit]

Wow @ this thread

 

[DopeyFish]

To be fair, like some have pointed out, it doesn't resemble Earth that much though. But nontheless it is something the series has explored before and I'd love for them to try to make a demon invasion justice now that the tech has advanced - it doesn't have to be in space to be Doom to me.

Now what I want is more pentagrams and other hellish elements, but we have no idea of the context of these images.

Well I do remember one level where you're on some sortof a city street with multiple buildings/towers

Sure it didn't look so earthy but it was 1994... What did you expect

 

[MYE]

MY EYES!!!

wtf

 

[jim-jam bongs]

It's not even about the look, though it's arguably more like Earth than the first game. It's that every single magazine used the subtitle Hell on Earth to promote their reviews, and it was the reason to get the game. Like the ads you saw were all "The legions of hell have escaped and are coming to your home town! IT'S HELL ON EARTH BAY-BAY!"

 

[NervousXtian]

I don't think old school Doom1 or Doom2 styled games are going to sell in this day and age.

I liked Doom 1 and 2 back in the day, but then again, the competition was weak.

I think people greatly overstate how great the level design truly was back then, it was generic as hell. Yeah, they were mazes, but they were devoid of life.

Also, it's not like Serious Sam 3 lit up the sales charts, and it was old school as you can get these days.

Also, I really did like Doom 3.. but going back to space? Dead Space has that niche locked up.

 

[Neuromancer]

Welcome to Urf

 

[jim-jam bongs]

I think people greatly overstate how great the level design truly was back then, it was generic as hell. Yeah, they were mazes, but they were devoid of life.

BZZZZZZT

OPINION INVALIDATED

PLEASE INSERT COIN TO TRY AGAIN

 

[Demigod Mac]

To me this looks like they're trying to do Doom 2 style.

Remember that Doom 2 took place on Earth (there was even a level called Suburbs)

 

[peakish]

Well I do remember one level where you're on some sortof a city street with multiple buildings/towers

Sure it didn't look so earthy but it was 1994... What did you expect

This time they can have like actual tons of civilians running around and being slaughtered by demons, get it a nice R rating and stuff. Even if people didn't know or care about D2 being set on earth I'm mostly surprised about people hating on it as if it couldn't fit at all but automatically makes it boring and un-Doom.

 

[Stallion Free]

I think people greatly overstate how great the level design truly was back then, it was generic as hell. Yeah, they were mazes, but they were devoid of life.

Doom 1 had fucking brilliant mazes.

 

[jim-jam bongs]

In a lot of ways, Dead Space is kind of a successor to Doom 3. Play them consecutively, and you can see a ton of connections in terms of the design. Dead Space was sort of like Doom 3 done right.

No, Doom 3 and Dead Space are just both huge rip offs of System Shock 2. Good games, but that's the reason for their similarities.

 

[Vilam]

I still don't get why they would cancel the game based on their only worthwhile IP.

Cancel it and restart, sure, but I mean, Rage, Quake, and Wolfenstein are all kind of dumps compared to Doom (and basic profitability).

That's ridiculous. A new Quake would sell better than a new Doom. Why they've tossed that IP aside is beyond me.

And I'm a far stretch from an id fan, but those graphics are certainly competent.

Though I do have the feeling that Doom 4 will be this decade's Duke Nukem Forever.

This decade's DNF is DNF. Doom 4 has to get delayed another 8 years.

 

[pa22word]

Guys, you do understand that Doom 3 was kind of a reimagining of Doom 1 and Doom 2 was set on Earth and had a "Hell on Earth" subtitle in the readme, right? Why is it such a surprise to some of you that a sequel to Doom 3 would be a reimagining of Doom 2 and, as Doom 2, will be set on Earth?

Pretty much my thoughts on this entire topic. Makes me wonder just how many people actually played DOOM II.

 

[foogles]

That's what I was expecting from Quake 4. Doom never had cyborgs. Well, except that rocketlauncher guy.

Uh, the textures in some levels had flesh and wires and tubes going into it. Even the walls in Doom were made out of cyborg!

 

[Zeliard]

No, Doom 3 and Dead Space are just both huge rip offs of System Shock 2. Good games, but that's the reason for their similarities.

Tons of Half-Life influence in Doom 3 as well, and Rage, I guess. Problem is id just doesn't do story and characters nearly as well as Valve. Their strengths lie elsewhere. Doom 4 could be perfect if they stripped it back a bit and let the hopefully insane atmosphere and enemy designs and such create most of the story.

 

[jim-jam bongs]

I've never played SS2 for more than an hour or so (it's a bitch to get running on modern systems). But I'm sure you're right. Wasn't it rumored that Dead Space was originally going to be SS3?

Rumoured by me probably :lol

It's never been confirmed either way, but the original Dead Space is practically a point for point remake of System Shock 2 so I've always maintained that it began life as a System Shock title.

 

[DR3AM]

Doom 4??? More like Gears of RAGE

 

[indigo-cyclops]

he designed a lot of levels.

Sandy Petersen designed a lot of levels + influenced art-direction with his obsession for Lovecraft

Large, I have to imagine. He was one of the primary level designers. The team wasn't very large back then, and McGee worked on much of the great id stuff till he was unceremoniously fired for whatever reason.

Dunno that Carmack's always been the easiest guy to get along with. Romero gets a lot of shit and he deserves it for Ion Storm, but it's unfortunate that his amazing work at id has been so overshadowed by his later stuff.

Thanks, I imagined that was the case. Considering the size of teams back then, and the fact that he ended up with his own pretty good studio made me think he was important at id. I can imagine Carmack being a real tough guy, even controlling, to work for.

Sandy Petersen + Lovecraft obsession, I had no idea. That's pretty cool info.

 

[infinityBCRT]

Tons of Half-Life influence in Doom 3 as well, and Rage, I guess. Problem is id just doesn't do story and characters nearly as well as Valve. Their strengths lie elsewhere. Doom 4 could be perfect if they stripped it back a bit and let the hopefully insane atmosphere and enemy designs and such create most of the story.

The only thing worse than id's story and characters is their enemy designs. Generic demon/goth stuff in Doom 3.

 

[Nizz]

I think it's good news that Doom 4 is still being worked on. I played the demo for Rage (PS3) and while I thought the game looked and ran great, I didn't really dig the controls. To me they felt a bit sluggish, even with sensitivity maxed out. I hope they work that out for Doom 4.

 

[Stallion Free]

I think it's good news that Doom 4 is still being worked on. I played the demo for Rage (PS3) and while I thought the game looked and ran great, I didn't really dig the controls. To me they felt a bit sluggish, even with sensitivity maxed out. I hope they work that out for Doom 4.

I think that's a dualshock 3 issue. Controls were snappy on a 360 pad.

 

[NervousXtian]

Doom 1 had fucking brilliant mazes.

That's because that's all you could basically do with an engine back then.

They didn't look like realistic places at all.. people expect things to be somewhat realistic in nature, even if it's hell.

 

[jim-jam bongs]

That's because that's all you could basically do with an engine back then.

They didn't look like realistic places at all.. people expect things to be somewhat realistic in nature, even if it's hell.

Your posts are bad and you should feel bad. Level design has little or nothing to do with how something looks, it's all about how it plays, and Doom plays fucking magnificently.

Edit: BAHAHAHAHA

 

[Stallion Free]

That's because that's all you could basically do with an engine back then.

They didn't look like realistic places at all.. people expect things to be somewhat realistic in nature, even if it's hell.

How a place looks has absolutely nothing to do with it's level DESIGN. The level design would deal with how the levels play and they play brilliantly in Doom.

FUUUUU JIM JAM DICK

 

[robin2]

Makes me wonder just how many people actually played DOOM II.

Doom 2 is set immediately after Doom. The space marine protagonist, go back to earth from Mars, to find it invaded.

Humans built giant space ships to flee in space, but the spaceport is blocked by demons.

It is not contemporary earth.

 

[Sciz]

That's because that's all you could basically do with an engine back then.

They didn't look like realistic places at all.. people expect things to be somewhat realistic in nature, even if it's hell.

id was capable of building reasonably realistic places by the time Quake rolled around. They stuck with insane nonsense labyrinths because those are vastly more interesting spaces to play a high-twitch, shoot-everything-that-moves kind of game in compared to hyper-realistic city streets.

Also, how the hell is hell supposed to be realistic?


edit: For that matter, most of Tom Hall's original maps for DOOM were rejected because they were too realistic, and consequently weren't much fun to play.

 

[luka]

For what is obviously WIP pre-alpha stuff that looks pretty damn great if they end up being fairly open and labyrinthe while packed with interesting enemies.

You can only judge what you can see, not whatever hypothetical amazingness that lies hidden in Id's offices. Though one should keep in mind that (again, if true) it is a version that they don't think is ready to show yet for whatever reason (and doesn't include stuff like actual characters). I think most commenters know this.

Do you really think so? It doesn't look that way from where I'm standing.

I think most commenters are puerile, belligerent and utterly oblivious. Fankly it's goddamned shameful. OH NO THAT BUILDING LOOKS LIKE RAGE! I DIDN'T LIKE RAGE FUCK THIS GAME. Give me a break.

 

[jim-jam bongs]

FUUUUU JIM JAM DICK

:lol

Great minds, what can I say?

Do you really think so? It doesn't look that way from where I'm standing.

I think most commenters are puerile, belligerent and utterly oblivious. Fankly it's goddamned shameful.

Do you really love Robotech S1 or is your tag ironic?

 

[The Lamonster]

Last time I checked, DOOM was a colorful arcade game with amazing level design...

 

[luka]

I'm looking through all the shots again after reading everyone's reactions and I'm throttled by the immensity of the bullshit that people are spewing right now. People seriously think this looks bad? Not even average, but outright BAD? I don't even know what to say.

Do you really love Robotech S1 or is your tag ironic?

I hate my tag. Not only is it wrong but it's also super lame.

edit: oops lol

 

[jim-jam bongs]

I hate my tag. Not only is it wrong but it's also super lame.

Aw. I was dumping my DVDs of S1 to my XBMC box the other day is all, it's definitely not as good as I remember it being when it first aired.

Edit: stop editing :lol

 

[NervousXtian]

id was capable of building reasonably realistic places by the time Quake rolled around. They stuck with insane nonsense labyrinths because those are vastly more interesting spaces to play a high-twitch, shoot-everything-that-moves kind of game in compared to hyper-realistic city streets.

Also, how the hell is hell supposed to be realistic?


edit: For that matter, most of Tom Hall's original maps for DOOM were rejected because they were too realistic, and consequently weren't much fun to play.

You still couldn't do true realism, at least interesting realism back then. You can now, you can make a fully living world in 3D.

I'm not saying the levels in Doom1 or 2 sucked, they were great back then. I'm saying it wouldn't fly today. It'd get killed by gamers and the media, and would probably sell like crap.

 

[Trojita]

Doom is just a Warhammer 40K prequel where you play as the Marine God Emperor to destroy the legions of Hell Chaos.

 

[Sciz]

You still couldn't do true realism, at least interesting realism back then. You can now, you can make a fully living world in 3D.

I'm not saying the levels in Doom1 or 2 sucked, they were great back then. I'm saying it wouldn't fly today. It'd get killed by gamers and the media, and would probably sell like crap.

Well, fine, but that's a different argument from "DOOM's level design was generic as hell."

Since you mentioned it earlier, Croteam's doing well enough with Serious Sam 3. DOOM could keep being a relevant and profitable brand more or less indefinitely if id could produce tightly focused sequels with a similar budget and market them to the niche audience that still likes that sort of thing. It'd certainly be a safer bet than trying to make it into a massive $20M+ affair that tries to straddle the fence the way RAGE did.

 

[brain_stew]

My understanding (and it could be wrong) is that to do Mega Textures with actual high res textures would require a prohibitive amount of VRAM.

Its not storage space, its disk space.

 

[videogames]

You still couldn't do true realism, at least interesting realism back then. You can now, you can make a fully living world in 3D.

I'm not saying the levels in Doom1 or 2 sucked, they were great back then. I'm saying it wouldn't fly today. It'd get killed by gamers and the media, and would probably sell like crap.

Please post games featuring 100% real life.

 

[El_Chino]

Judging by these leaked screen shots, i believe ID is going for a "down to earth" kind of look.

 

[MightyHedgehog]

Just got done playing some Brutal Doom. Wow! I can live with the fact that new Doom will never live up to the classics that made it relevant in the first place.

 

[Neuromancer]

Really? The most memorable levels to me were the sprawling, open two levels which were very clearly set on Earth.

Hmm I do seem to remember some quasi open levels, possible with trees. The graphics were too primitive back then to even make things like cars though, making the entire exercise a bit abstract.

 

[Ifrit]

Just got done playing some Brutal Doom. Wow! I can live with the fact that new Doom will never live up to the classics that made it relevant in the first place.

Brutal Doom is godly

 

[NervousXtian]

Well, fine, but that's a different argument from "DOOM's level design was generic as hell."

Since you mentioned it earlier, Croteam's doing well enough with Serious Sam 3. DOOM could keep being a relevant and profitable brand more or less indefinitely if id could produce tightly focused sequels with a similar budget and market them to the niche audience that still likes that sort of thing. It'd certainly be a safer bet than trying to make it into a massive $20M+ affair that tries to straddle the fence the way RAGE did.

They were generic as hell, but fun... especially up against Duke 3D. Didn't mean I didn't play the shit out of them, I did. Quake was even more generic. I was blown away back then, sure.. we all were.

I'm just saying that same design philosophy unless done on an indie type scale, with an indie budget, just wouldn't work today. To flesh out those kinds of levels in this day and age and make them look "good" and not copy/pasted would cost some mega bucks. Also, take Doom 2.. is the gaming world today going to accept giant walls in lieu of the dreaded "invisible walls" and "garbage and overturned cars" that make up level design today? Doubtful.

I think fully hardcore gamers would accept a budget released indie-type Doom4 reboot. Spruced up graphics, but copy/paste textures and barren levels with limited assets but huge sprawling levels. I'd play it, but the cost to do that say with Metro 2033 aesthetics in a Doom2 leveled design? That'd cost a developer HUGE money to make, and still.. brick walls with a burning cityscape in the backdrop?

 

[Zeliard]

Absolutely. Make it like a shooter-heavy version of Metroid Prime. You should feel isolated, and whatever information you do find should pretty much be optional like Metroid Prime's scanning system.

Yep, let the environment offer up that sort of story detail. The original Doom games had a pretty barebones story but they were so effective atmospherically through a combination of enemy, sound and level designs. Scouring around levels looking for items was always a treat, and you never knew what'd be lurking around the next corner. And the sound, seriously. I can still hear the basic zombie's moaning death cries. Those games felt ominous even with what is now an extremely primitive graphics engine, so you don't need robust visuals to get that done.

But apparently you may need a lesser graphics engine for better level design. The concern with modern games is that visuals and generally flashy shit have trumped true level design. And focus testing, of course. People don't know which way is up and which way is forward - literally - so we generally get games with little verticality and stupid, heavily signposted linear design.

Could we ever get another game like Thief 1/2, with those massive intricate levels? Dunno how Edith Thi4f will turn out, but it doesn't even seem possible.

Beyond focus testing and tame publishers, I wonder if it goes back to the notion that creators are able to do something greater if they are in some sense shackled, trying and succeeding magnificently at evoking something meaningful through otherwise technically limited means, i.e. composers working with 8-bit music back in the day, or artists with 8-bit sprites. Those supposed limitations seem in some cases key to the stellar creativity, not only due to relatively lower development costs but especially in terms of the creative drive of making something more with less.

 

[sp3000]

I actually think Doom 3 had one of the best stories in an FPS game. It wasn't very original, but the way it was told and the detail put into all the messages was great.

 

[NervousXtian]

Please post games featuring 100% real life.

I didn't say 100% real life.. I said a living 3D world.

Deus EX: HR
Grand Theft Auto IV
Crysis 1 & 2
Far Cry 2 (and Far Cry 3 looks this way)
Metro 2033
Dead Island (in spots)
Stalker series

Not all of them nailed it completely, but they made living world that could feel like real places. You felt like you were somewhere that could actually exist, but they all showed their limitations in one way or the other, for various reasons.

 

[ultim8p00]

Thing I really want Doom 4 to NOT have:

ADS (fuck this shit seriously I want to see my goddamn guns)
Sprint button
2 weapon limit
Regenerating health
Slow walk speed


Please ID

 

[Zee-Row]

Doom 4 was basically gonna be a remake of Doom 2? Doom 3 was basically a remake of the first Doom.