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Doom's lead graphics programmer thinks 4K isn't a good use of Xbox Scorpio's power
- Thread starter Nirolak
- Start date
TakeItSlowDude
Member
Absolutely right. 60fps with good AA while using dynamic scaling methods should be the target.
CharminUltra
Member
Sounds reasonable.
RedAssedApe
Banned
everyone i know who has a 4k/hdr capable tv have said that hdr > 4k in terms of being able to see a difference in normal viewing. granted this is a handful of people.
... A lot of people probably.
But it's not really what we want done with bleeding tech, not the primary thing anyway if we're not crazy rich and we're making cutting edge PC setups that could do this 5 years ago to begin with.
http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/176486
Here is a Bloodstained screenshot Durante posted. Showing the difference between 1080p and 4K. It is fairly significant. Notably a lot of the detail is being eaten up by LOD issues and the UE4 AA solution.
Now what many of those tweets propose is reprojecting a 1080p framebuffer to 2160p and doing postproc on that. Hopefully it should produce better results, but they'll never be as good as this. Lots of tiny details is definitely an area that benefits from 4K, even downsampled.
Here is a Bloodstained screenshot Durante posted. Showing the difference between 1080p and 4K. It is fairly significant. Notably a lot of the detail is being eaten up by LOD issues and the UE4 AA solution.
Now what many of those tweets propose is reprojecting a 1080p framebuffer to 2160p and doing postproc on that. Hopefully it should produce better results, but they'll never be as good as this. Lots of tiny details is definitely an area that benefits from 4K, even downsampled.
This is definitely the best way forward. Newer consoles would automatically see the benefits of this sort of stuff. Like Halo 5 will on Scorpio. Not just dynamic scaling of resolutions either, they should all implement Forza Apex's automatic visual configuration stuff based on hardware capabilities.
SEGAvangelist
Member
In viewing video content? Yes. HDR is amazing. In game content? That remains to be seen (besides people who saw it at E3). I think 4k is a huge boost for gaming, but I get the feeling it's the combo with the 4K resolution that will really make the most difference.
Granted, these are third party PC devs, so using that power for current games isn't going to be a problem considering we know consoles aren't using the full graphical presets already available on PC.
CassidyIzABeast
Member
Give me 4k when enough headroom is there. For right now I want 1080p and all the graphics you can give me.
AndyMoogle
Member
I haven't seen HDR, but I would think that you're right. 4K is great for gaming. It gets rid of most aliasing on its own. But the performance hit is not worth it at this point, imo.
ThatOneGrunt
Member
We have something in common. Give me steady 1080p 60fps but bananas graphical things. Give me Viva Pinata in unreal engine 4 and all the effects turned on. I want to see those Fudgehogs sweat. I want my toes to curl at the sight of a glistening, gorgeous Chewnicorn.
A.D. Skinner
Member
I'm fine either way to be honest. I'm sure exclusives will push 4K, I would love some Halo 6 in 4K hut I'm happy for other games to be 1080p with everything maxed. Exclusives always look the best.
My point made earlier is that these two factors are somewhat at odds with each other. You add all these details to assets which then get completely destroyed by the lower resolution and AA. They aren't completely on the opposite sides of the spectrum, but it is something to bear in mind. One just has to look at games today running in 4K and even on assets designed for 1080p displays the amount of extra detail visible at 4k is often fairly significant.
One then has to wonder if it is at all worth it.
PeskyToaster
Member
Spend the resources on other things to refine the 1080p image. 4k market is too small to cater to it I think.
Scorpio should easily be able to handle games at 4K with current gen fidelity if not a bit higher.
Remember when microsoft said when you sit at a distance you can't tell the difference between 720p and 1080p? Sounds like this guy is saying the same thing.
I sit about twelve feet away from my 60 inch 4k TV and I can definitely tell the difference between 4k and 1080p. 4k is much much much better and definitely an eye catcher, even at that distance.
I sit about twelve feet away from my 60 inch 4k TV and I can definitely tell the difference between 4k and 1080p. 4k is much much much better and definitely an eye catcher, even at that distance.
Trickster
Member
4k for games wont make sense for the forseeable future. I get why Sony would want to push 4k gaming given that they produce tv's. But I have no idea why Microsoft is trying to do it. It's a huge resource drain for minimal visual improvement compared to doing 1440/1080 with actual visual effects like particles, lighting and textures.
SEGAvangelist
Member
But with game development tied to previous consoles like PS4 and XB1, I don't a gigantic performance hit in the first few years. I don't see why resolutions above 1080p are a waste in those cases. The headroom should be there especially with dynamic resolutions becoming more popular. The games could definitely be 4k with the base resolution reaching 1080p in performance demanding portions of the games.
Viewing distance (to screen size) of the general console gaming public is certainly a factor, but people are going to yell about this and say only blind people can't tell the difference.
ive looked at 1080 p, 4k and 4k HDR (I own a 65 inch 4k HD tv) and honestly I dont seem much of a difference at all. I would love for them to use all that extra power to create some awesome experiences at 1080p.
Diprosalic
Banned
that sub 30fps in 4k.
Perfect Cha0s
Member
Putting the option out there but letting devs decide will hopefully bear out to be the best course of action - it means devs can be adaptable to whichever way consumer preferences and adoption rates go.
Interfectum
Member
Yup, I agree with this. I don't want to go back to janky framerates for the sake of 4k resolution. Give me your best graphics at 1080p.
chrishackwood
Member
Shifty
Member
Control, this is Car 43. Calling in a driveby, over.
QuantumBro
Banned
Downsampling or 1440p would be more useful (which Scorpio should be able to easily do). Save 4k for next gen.
The Last Wizard
Member
This what I'm hoping these consoles will do since there's no way in hell im getting a 4K television anytime soon. They're too expensive and they'd till have very little content for it. I mean cable still doesn't do 1080p right?
Agreed, and I'll add 60 fps > 30 fps and steady 60 fps > 60 fps with noticeable dips.
AndyMoogle
Member
Scorpio isn't powerful enough to do much more than Xbox One fidelity at 4K. That's not really worth it, imo. I'd much rather have them go for 1080p 60 fps and higher fidelity for all games. Take a look at The Witcher 3 for example. It looks way better maxed out on PC at 1080p than what it looks like on PS4 and Xbox One. Having the Xbox One version in 4K would be kind of stupid.
id Tech don't need no better framerate
ThatOneGrunt
Member
I think it's purely because resolution has been become a method to clearly explain the power of a console this generation. How many headlines have you seen highlighting the fact that a game was 1080p on one console, while on another console it was less than. It's the perfect way to show which box has more muscle and MS is capitalizing on that with 4K.
LukasTaves
Member
Hopefully all devs follow suit. Leave 4k to when console have 20+tflops available.