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[2+2=5]

I'm not a fan of Aloy's head, it looks bigger than it should be imo, but there's no way i would have preferred the child of the (great)concept art, there's a thing called the "vision", basically the idea of the game, and it's really clear that a cartoonish Disney-like child didn't fit the developer's vision of the game.

What you want is a better head model, not making Horizon the western attempt to Japanese schoolgirls slaying huge monsters.

 

[Kinyou]

I don't know why everyone's drawing a line in the sand between 'waif' Aloy and her final design as if there's this huge chasm. Obviously the final 3d model has more detailed musculature than a concept sketch but their body types are pretty similar ( thin muscular arms, narrowish shoulders, slim waist).Aloy's only 18 in the game so it makes sense that she'd have a little baby fat in her cheek since she's still growing.

Yeah, it's a bit funny to see so much disdain thrown around for either iteration. Considering how advanced these concept drawings are I wouldn't be surprised if GG used them as guideline while looking for a real life model of Aloy.

 

[Dereck]

This one is better

 

[Bunga]

I actually really like a couple of the Aloy designs. I like the one they went with too though, it seemed a perfect fit for the character she was to be fair.

 

[SolVanderlyn]

FFXII:
Balthier

That Balthier is for a scrapped flashback scene. That's just teenage

Spoiler

Ffamran

Balthier

 

[Death Penalty]

This is the same kind of nonsense we saw with the Faith design. She is still a skinny fashion model. The concept design just looks a little cartoony.

Couldn't disagree with you more. The contrast between the two is striking, particularly in the facial features. Finalized in-game Aloy is a pretty average looking lady, and I think that's swell.

 

[TheThreadsThatBindUs]

A woman that hunts monsters with a bow all day shouldn't look waifish. It feels like people think a woman that has even the littlest bit of actual muscle is ugly.

I don't think it's that, tbh. I'm pretty sure all would agree someone like Jamie Eason is HOT:

I think some posters just take issue with the way Aloy's facial shape is modeled. As I would bet that most of the Aloy detractors would still agree that her real-life model Hanna Hoekstra is hot:

I just think that some gamers feel like if they are playing a female character, they'd prefer that character to be attractive.

I do kinda understand that sentiment to an extent. As even for me, one of the reasons I hated playing Nico Belic in GTAIV was that the dude unappealing physically (more to do with his dress style than anything else). At the same time though I can happily play a character I don't find attractive, as long as they're interesting as a character.

Aloy, however, is a character I find both interesting and hot.

 

[Finale Fireworker]

FFXII:
Balthier
Ashe (darker skinned?)

Love the design, but it's too bad that awful unbelievably stupid and oddly enraging character pose was so crucial to the character that it appears in even early concept art.

Like they were experimenting with all sorts of looks, but were deadset on that pose that - for some reason - triggers some sort of uncanny sensor in my brain and makes me anxious and uncomfortable.

It's so bizarre. Hate that pose. The cocked head, the strange and abnormal nose-touching, the hunched shoulders, the bow-legs, the eye contact... it's like something out of Silent Hill to me.

 

[WhiteRabbitEXE]

Seriously. Most of the 'analysis' comes down to which version people most want to stick their dick in.

Happens *literally* every single time female character design gets brought up. Ridiculous.

 

[Llyrwenne]

Am I not allowed to have a preference?

Point being that most of the people criticizing the final look of Aloy are doing so because they don't think she's attractive enough to them. Look at all these from just the first few pages;

This is way better. But i guess we have to aplaud them for making her "chubbier" and less good looking. She looks like a real person now.

Would have brought the crap out of horizon if she looked like this. Hits that nice sweetspot of cute and confident. I hate the graphical realism focus in games nowadays. The current Alloy design is boring compared to this.

People don't like ugly designs, what a surprise.

They Mass Effect Andromeda'd her. Oh no, we chose an actress who is too conventionally attractive, we have to bring her down a peg.

I see no reason for Aloy, an obviously strong and fit avatar to have those oddly puffy cheeks, women that are fit dont look like that in the face.

The first thing when we got out of wonder woman u asked my wife how she felt about gal gadots "look" and she immediately said very strong and etc etc. You can have a woman with a thinner frame and still show strength.

Meanwhile in actor -> digital conversions. More hair, more muscles, sharper features, "manlier" in game presence. They actively enhance their avatars.

This is a new trend in this generation imo and it doesn't apply to every game, but it does happen. Traditionally women were dialed up too high, but now some games are going opposite.

Who cares? They still made her look blander than her real counterpart.
The real actress? Sure. Game Alloy? Eeh.

+ multiple 'OMG she looks sooooo much better here' drive-by posts that people didn't bother to clarify. For a lot of people, this is about Aloy not being an attractive enough woman. 'I am not sexually attracted to this woman' therefore 'this a bad character design'. People judging the design of a female character based on how hot she is to them. You see how that is a problem, right? You see the objectifying / sexist implications of that?

I can understand that. I was just surprised that you'd put then on the level of " disgusting "

That is specifically referring to these two elements of it;

...obsessing over the inability to force her to love / fuck someone.
...
people projecting their own wishes / prejudices onto Aloy. For example: "Aloy is a strong woman, so she must like girls!".

 

[Parsnip]

I too prefer those Aloy concepts to the final look, but that's more to do with preferring a more stylized look than anything else.

 

[Bold One]

Very happy with GG's decision regarding the final Aloy we got. She oozes strength, confidence and capability - but she's also not the prototypical super-serious action badass.

Not at all surprised with a lot of the responses here though, Certain people on Gaf's predilection for teenage-looking anime waifus is well documented.

 

[Philippo]

Some early designs for Persona 5



Sorry for the quality, but you'll get to see them better when they release the official artbook

I like the concept of the party's Phantom Thieves outfits just being a layer on top of their uniforms, i wish they sticked with that.

 

[OmegaX0]

+ multiple 'OMG she looks sooooo much better here' drive-by posts that people didn't bother to clarify. For a lot of people, this is about Aloy not being an attractive enough woman. 'I am not sexually attracted to this woman' therefore 'this a bad character design'. People judging the design of a female character based on how hot she is to them. You see how that is a problem, right? You see the objectifying / sexist implications of that?

No? People judge a lot of things by how attractive they think it looks. It's the same as saying a character design doesn't look cool enough for them. Preference doesn't stop being a thing when the character is female.

 

[Ratrat]

Couldn't disagree with you more. The contrast between the two is striking, particularly in the facial features. Finalized in-game Aloy is a pretty average looking lady, and I think that's swell.

The contrast is that she looks like Disney dog in the concept art and she looks like a real model in the final game.
Just look.

I don't know why everyone's drawing a line in the sand between 'waif' Aloy and her final design as if there's this huge chasm. Obviously the final 3d model has more detailed musculature than a concept sketch but their body types are pretty similar ( thin muscular arms, narrowish shoulders, slim waist).Aloy's only 18 in the game so it makes sense that she'd have a little baby fat in her cheek since she's still growing.

Average? She's a twig.

 

[Moon Presence]

Guerrilla made the right choice, Aloy is awesome. I don't need a Disney princess in a world full of robot dinosaurs. And btw, I think she's hot :3

 

[SolVanderlyn]

Out of all those Aloy concepts, the only one that looks passable is this one:

The others are much too cartoony, even if they're fine designs on their own, and even this one would have likely had to have been made to look a bit more realistic.

I like the hair here better than the final version though.

 

[OmegaX0]

Out of all those Aloy concepts, the only one that looks passable is this one:
The others are much too cartoony, even if they're fine designs on their own, and even this one would have likely had to have been made to look a bit more realistic.

I like the hair here better than the final version though.

I feel people are focusing too much on the art style, the design itself could have been done with the realistic look and be much better than what we got. Especially that mess of a haircut, some bangs would have gone a long way in making it look less terrible.

 

[Prax]

Just wanted to dive into this ongoing debate! lol

Loish's concepts are much more appealing.
They also have better colour harmony. This makes sense because Loish is good at putting together appealing palettes. She also makes good silhouettes. That's a part of why she is told how Disney her stuff looks. A lot of focus on actual visual stylization. Her "puffier" hair balances well with her more pronounced hips. It creates nice S-shapes.

Alloy's final design has like appealing "parts" but the whole is pretty.. uggo to me. Including whatever it going on with the colour harmony of her + her uniform. Bleh. Like choosing the wrong shades of tan to contrast with the blue and red.. Something's not right. Plus the overall silhouette, the hair SHAPE.. it just.. all the shapes and proportions make it less appealing. In the turn-around, the side profile looks okay, but something seems off with the front and back views because her hair is too pointed stacked on top of her. Her shoulders look drooping. The overall shape is a blobbing downwards teardrop. It's not appealing.

I think when it comes to her face, the eye spacing and forehead shape or how much smaller the eyes look look from the actress they were inspired from also knocks down the appeal a little.

These little things all add up.

Hopefully they are more mindful of these things the next time.

 

[TheThreadsThatBindUs]

Point being that most of the people criticizing the final look of Aloy are doing so because they don't think she's attractive enough to them. Look at all these from just the first few pages;


+ multiple 'OMG she looks sooooo much better here' drive-by posts that people didn't bother to clarify. For a lot of people, this is about Aloy not being an attractive enough woman. 'I am not sexually attracted to this woman' therefore 'this a bad character design'. People judging the design of a female character based on how hot she is to them. You see how that is a problem, right? You see the objectifying / sexist implications of that?
That is specifically referring to these two elements of it;

I'm not sure it's helpful to assume that people's like or dislike of a character's appearance is solely down to sexual attraction.

On the other hand, sexual attraction as a factor in how visually appealing people might find a character is inevitable... be that a male or female character. We're human being's and so sexual attraction is not something we can really turn-off.

There are so many different aspects of visual design that people might be endeared/averse to, especially with respect to an example like Aloy. I love Aloy's design, but I recognize that proportionally speaking, her head is slightly on the big side (which is especially obvious when you compare her to her real-life model). Does this make me dislike the design? No. But I can understand why it might make others do so. At the same time I can also admit that I find Aloy's current design very attractive, so perhaps that is coloring my view and making me overlook her slightly mis-proportioned head size.

There may be other aspects to Aloy's look, in comparison to the concept art that may cause people to favor one over the other. So reducing the conversation down to "objectification and sexism" when a person merely says they prefer one design over another, without any clarification, is pretty much jumping the gun, imho.

 

[Harlequin]

 

[Violet_0]

some of the Aloy artwork strongly resembles Emma Watson and someone said the last pic is supposed to be kid Aloy. Sorry, I just wanted to make this thread a little more awkward

 

[Llyrwenne]

No? People judge a lot of things by how attractive they think it looks.

objectify
/ɒbˈdʒɛktɪfʌɪ/
verb
1. degrade to the status of a mere object.

It's the same as saying a character design doesn't look cool enough for them.

It is not. 'Coolness' is a more abstract concept that is much broader than 'physical attractiveness of a person'. Most of the dislike for Aloy is specifically about her physical attractiveness ('she's chubby' / 'she's too manly'). Her physical attractiveness is also brought up often and consistently when talking about her compared to any other character I know of.

Preference doesn't stop being a thing when the character is female.

It doesn't, and that's ok. It stops being ok when you start using that preference to argue that female character designs that do not conform to your standards of physical beauty are 'ugly' or 'manly' or 'chubby' or 'bad'.

I'm not sure it's helpful to assume that people's like or dislike of a character's appearance is solely down to sexual attraction.

There may be other aspects to Aloy's look, in comparison to the concept art that may cause people to favor one over the other. So reducing the conversation down to "objectification and sexism" when a person merely says they prefer one design over another, without any clarification, is pretty much jumping the gun, imho.

I didn't intend to say everyone's dislike is rooted solely in the absence of sexual attraction, and I don't think I did. However, there is very much an undeniable trend when talking about Aloy concerning people bringing up her physical attractiveness. I don't see how I'm supposed to ignore that because there are also some people with unrelated criticisms.

On the other hand, sexual attraction as a factor in how visually appealing people might find a character is inevitable... be that a male or female character. We're human being's and so sexual attraction is not something we can really turn-off.

I'll repeat two relevant bits from above;
It stops being ok when you start using that preference to argue that female character designs that do not conform to your standards of physical beauty are 'ugly' or 'manly' or 'chubby' or 'bad'.
Most of the dislike for Aloy is specifically about her physical attractiveness ('she's chubby' / 'she's too manly'). Her physical attractiveness is also brought up often and consistently when talking about her compared to any other character I know of.

 

[jay]

What a cool thread idea mostly derailed by a bunch of horny dudes.

 

[Joohanh]

For comparison, here are his final appearances in each game:

Wow Geralt looks like an idiot in the first.

 

[silva1991]

Sora from Kingdom Hearts

 

[eso76]

To you maybe, I think they look boring af.

To anyone who doesn't think character design is defined by hairstyle, hair colour and amount of chains and shoulder pads glued to a guy.

Putting Frank from DR next to Snake ? Alan Wake ? Michael from GTAV with his dad bod and scoliosis ? Yes they are all white with black/brown hair. Similarities end there.

 

[Vanguard771]

Chief looked comical in early sketches compared to the (glorious) walking tank he is now.

Off topic, but I really enjoyed that moment being used as a juxtaposition for the "I thought you'd be taller" comment she gave in him earlier in the campaign.

 

[Zexen]

Space Invaders.

Oh wow, now we're talking.

 

[zoukka]

It stops being ok when you start using that preference to argue that female character designs that do not conform to your standards of physical beauty are 'ugly'

Isn't this unavoidable? I mean ugly is a strong word, but stuff that conforms to ones taste tends to be beautiful to that person and wise versa.

 

[Ordinaryundone]

To anyone who doesn't think character design is defined by hairstyle, hair colour and amount of chains and shoulder pads glued to a guy.

Putting Frank from DR next to Snake ? Alan Wake ? Michael from GTAV with his dad bod and scoliosis ? Yes they are all white with black/brown hair. Similarities end there.

Yeah, that's what gets me about that picture. They are all white guys with brown hair but if you look at more than just their faces they all look dramatically different. Snake doesn't look anything like York, who doesn't look anything like Max Payne, etc. There are fit guys and fat guys and young guys and old guys and everything in between. There is plenty of diversity in appearance, provided within somewhat realistic limitations, just not much in terms of skin color. Which is easy to do when you just cherry pick a list of white characters and throw them together Willy-nilly to try and make a point.

 

[Maledict]

Happens *literally* every single time female character design gets brought up. Ridiculous.

I'm a gay guy who has absolutely no interest in Aloy sexually. I just think it a shame we have this amazing character in game, and that a ton of people call her ugly and prefer a standard Disney princess look that wouldn't fit the game or the character at all. I think she looks and acts brilliantly in the game and is one of the strongest characters to enter gaming for years, and instead people want a cartoon, unbelievably unrealistic heroine would looks identical to many other female characters out there.

 

[Violet_0]

Sora from Kingdom Hearts

not sure if it's worth bringing up, but that assets/kh/artwork/216.jpg triggered my Avast antivir twice now

 

[OmegaX0]

objectify
/ɒbˈdʒɛktɪfʌɪ/
verb
1. degrade to the status of a mere object.

Objectification is a thing with real people, not video game characters. They're literal objects already.

It is not. 'Coolness' is a more abstract concept that is much broader than 'physical attractiveness of a person'.

It's not, it wholly depends on the person. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder and what not. That's why there is always so much disagreement in worst character design threads.

It doesn't, and that's ok. It stops being ok when you start using that preference to argue that female character designs that do not conform to your standards of physical beauty are 'ugly' or 'manly' or 'chubby' or 'bad'.

It stops being ok? How is there anything wrong with judging character designs by your own standards of beauty? People like different things, some may express that with strong words but that doesn't make what they like or dislike bad.

Also can we stop with this silliness?

I think she looks and acts brilliantly in the game and is one of the strongest characters to enter gaming for years, and instead people want a cartoon, unbelievably unrealistic heroine would looks identical to many other female characters out there.

A female character that is more attractive is not somehow unrealistic or incapable of being strong. Or is it precisely because Aloy is not as conventionally attractive as the concept art that she can walk away from getting hit by a giant robot dinosaur without crippling injuries?

 

[rtcn63]

Wait, that's how she looks in-game? And her listed height is 5' 6". Okay, I get it. At first glance, she doesn't look entirely proportionate, if just (the game design-added babyfat and extended head shape all around). Her body seems to have a smaller build and lower bodyfat percentage than her face would point to. Kind of like a FFIX character.

Highly anecdotal, but I've seen real women with similar babyfat, and they were always more uh... curvy, muscular, and/or a bit taller. The actress she's based on has more facial definition.

Here's lifter Samantha Wright at 5' 2", notice her proportions:

 

[Maledict]

Objectinfication is a thing with real people, not video game characters. They're literal objects already.

This is a nonsense statement. Of course fictional characters can be objectified. There's tons written about it. The visuals and narrative of fictional characters has a massive influence on people, society and gender, and objectifying women in fiction is one of the ways that's happened.

A female character that is more attractive is not somehow unrealistic or incapable of being strong. Or is it precisely because Aloy is not as conventionally attractive as the concept art that she can walk away from getting hit by a giant robot dinosaur without crippling injuries?

It's not to do with how attractive she is. It's the fact that the concept art could not exist as a person. It's an incredibly bland, unrealisticly proportioned Disney princess - people don't look like that, people don't have waists that thing in real life, and it's totally out of tone for the world (and yes, I'm a stick thin guy myself and the cartoon Aloy is *way* too thin). It's a sanitized, standardardly pretty character design that could be any girl from almost any cartoon or graphic novel from the last 20 years. Unrealistic expectations everywhere.

Instead, we got an Aloy who is both beautiful and looks like she could actually exist as a person in real life. She has character, motive, and a graphical design that grabs the eye without the cookie cutter standards of what a female hero should look like that have been drawn a thousand times before.

Edit: this isn't about different standards of beauty. It's about all the guys dropping into the thread just to comment how ugly Aloy is ingame and how much they prefer the original cartoons. Which, to be frank, is obviously just about which character they'd prefer to fuck over anything else. Look at the massive number of comments about Aloys physical appearance and mocking her in game representation.

 

[UnemployedVillain]

I always understood that hyperbolic language meant an exaggeration, not an outright falsehood. But sure, you showed me

And we're allowed to laugh at you for saying "what a shame they didn't go for <cute Disney princess>".

So basically, you're right because you interpreted a statement in a way that makes you right and I'm wrong for doing the same thing just because? Gotcha!

You can laugh all you want just like I can laugh at your poor attempt at defending yourself. It's a shame they didn't go for the most stylized art style. It's a shame they didn't go for the design with the cooler looking hairstyle. But nope, it's just me being sexist and wanting a Disney princess because I had the audacity not to absolutely love a design that you did. Look through my messages in this thread and not once did I say anything about the current Alloy design not being feminine, or being too masculine, or not being pretty enough. The ONLY comment I've even made on it is that it seemed to widen the face from the actual model Alloy was based on.

Grow up

 

[TheJollyCorner]

I have a feeling by choosing this design and seeing him on the front cover of the game, they probably would have sold a lot more copies and got a lot better critical reception than goofy expressioned, suspenders and yellow shirted tidus.

You're right. It's too bad Square went with the final Tidus design and FFX didn't turn out to be one of the best selling games on the PS2 with a metacritic score of 92... wait...

No... look, I love Naora's art and have been very vocal about wanting him to be the main character designer of a mainline FF for a long, long time. That said, rainbow sorbet shirt Tidus, should it have been used as the final design, would have been equally as loathed as yellow suspenders by a portion of the fan base. I believe I can say that with a strong element of certainty.

Different game (Seventeen), different vision- both work for their respective environments, IMO (and I just wanted to rib you a bit for implying Tidus' final design somehow stunted further sales and critical reception &#128521

 

[dawgparty]

FFX

i think there was a dark haired tidus at some point too

Man, that Tidus and Yuna(?) look fucking awesome.

 

[Llyrwenne]

Isn't this unavoidable? I mean ugly is a strong word, but stuff that conforms to ones taste tends to be beautiful to that person and wise versa.

Apparently it is avoidable because it rarely if ever comes up in discussions about other character designs. There's plenty of male characters that I do not find physically attractive, yet you don't see me going into threads complaining about them and claiming that their design is bad. Nor is there a trend of others doing that. Why can't objectifying language be avoided when discussing Aloy?

Objectification is a thing with real people, not video game characters. They're literal objects already.

No, that's not how it works and I .... really shouldn't have to explain why. So instead I'll just ask a different question and work with your answer to it.

Can you explain to me why physical beauty is consistently brought into the discussion when talking about this new female lead character, yet is nearly absent from discussion on other characters?

It's not, it wholly depends on the person. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder and what not.

...it literally is though. 'Coolness' is a more abstract concept that is much broader than 'physical attractiveness of a person'.

That's why there is always so much disagreement in worst character design threads.

But why is it so specifically about physical beauty when it concerns Aloy, when such a thing rarely if ever plays a major / consistent role in discussion about other (mostly male) characters?

It stops being ok? How is there anything wrong with judging character designs by your own standards of beauty? People like different things, some may express that with strong words but that doesn't make what they like or dislike bad.

I never said that judging something by your own standards is wrong. I'm saying that;
1. People's standards of physical beauty are directly and / or indirectly informed by media where women have been objectified, sexualized and idealized for years.
2. 'Physical beauty' dominates discussion about Aloy in a way it shouldn't while it is near absent from discussion on other (mostly male) characters.
3. There is a difference between having an opinion on someones physical beauty and sharing that opinion in a way that specifically objectifies the person / character in question.

Also can we stop with this silliness?

No, because there's nothing silly about it. The underlying factors are part of a larger issue within the gaming community and should be pointed out.

 

[Parsnip]

Early Jade, it's not terribly different from what ended up in the game though.
I think I remember some early game play footage with the white shirt design too.

The underlying factors are part of a larger issue within the gaming community and should be pointed out.

It seems like it should be its own thread though.

 

[TheThreadsThatBindUs]

I didn't intend to say everyone's dislike is rooted solely in the absence of sexual attraction, and I don't think I did. However, there is very much an undeniable trend when talking about Aloy concerning people bringing up her physical attractiveness. I don't see how I'm supposed to ignore that because there are also some people with unrelated criticisms.I'll repeat two relevant bits from above;

But that's how you came across, as many of the posts you originally quoted didn't seem to specifically be framing a dislike of Aloy's design on the basis of her appearance alone. Some mentioned a preference for the concept art without specifying a basis for that preference, and some comments stated the posters opinion of the character's attractiveness, making no vocal judgement about her design.

While one or two of those posts certainly did seem to judge Aloy's design on the basis of her attractiveness, not all of them were clearly doing that. And so by quoting all the posts you did and painting them with the same brush you're effectively projecting the perceived sins of some onto a larger group.

It stops being ok when you start using that preference to argue that female character designs that do not conform to your standards of physical beauty are 'ugly' or 'manly' or 'chubby' or 'bad'.
Most of the dislike for Aloy is specifically about her physical attractiveness ('she's chubby' / 'she's too manly'). Her physical attractiveness is also brought up often and consistently when talking about her compared to any other character I know of.

I fail to see how you can claim this conclusively on the basis of the posts you quoted. Unless you're also including posts outside of this thread in your conclusion, in which case i would ask you to consider whether you're projecting what you've seen elsewhere, unfairly onto some posters in here, based on fairly ambiguous posts?

 

[30yearsofhurt]

The 'discussion' around what Aloy should have looked like is amusing.
Disney? Chubby? Puffy cheeks?
Poor girl must have a complex by now with how much her looks are being debated.

BTW I'm getting a malware warning for one of the KH images on this page.

 

[Dice//]

Early Jade, it's not terribly different from what ended up in the game though.
I think I remember some early game play footage with the white shirt design too.



It seems like it should be its own thread though.

Way cooler (well mostly because I found Jade's current cargo pants a terrible reminder of the decade she was designed in haahaha)


And as someone mention Ally is indeed getting "character attractiveness treatment"... something barely done for any of the male characters posted here. And so sad many people have completely let Horizon's game visual design go right over their heads (they would NEVER opt for such a Disney Princess design given the emphasis on realism the game went for....no one does their hair like that now let alone in a post apocalyptic setting. Yes HZD has unreal/fantasy elements, especially in the form of its monsters, but it has a line it doesn't cross with its human characters)

We are so used to talkin about women as having value tied to their attractiveness (men too, but waaaay moreso with women) that we can even be "blinded" and not see it happening.

Also I giggled at people like the Tidus "sorbet shirt". It's pretty sure, but it would never fly unless the whole game world is into gradient ice cream colouring.

 

[Temeculan3000]

Apparently it is avoidable because it rarely if ever comes up in discussions about other character designs. There's plenty of male characters that I do not find physically attractive, yet you don't see me going into threads complaining about them and claiming that their design is bad. Nor is there a trend of others doing that. Why can't objectifying language be avoided when discussing Aloy?

I agree with your points, but your earlier post didn't specify that it was wrong to post it, it seemed to say you were wrong to even have the thought in your head. I think that is why some people are disagreeing. They might not be able to control subconscious thought, but they can control what they say or post on the internet.

 

[TheThreadsThatBindUs]

Apparently it is avoidable because it rarely if ever comes up in discussions about other character designs. There's plenty of male characters that I do not find physically attractive, yet you don't see me going into threads complaining about them and claiming that their design is bad. Nor is there a trend of others doing that. Why can't objectifying language be avoided when discussing Aloy?No, that's not how it works and I .... really shouldn't have to explain why. So instead I'll just ask a different question and work with your answer to it.

Can you explain to me why physical beauty is consistently brought into the discussion when talking about this new female lead character, yet is nearly absent from discussion on other characters?...it literally is though. 'Coolness' is a more abstract concept that is much broader than 'physical attractiveness of a person'.But why is it so specifically about physical beauty when it concerns Aloy, when such a thing rarely if ever plays a major / consistent role in discussion about other (mostly male) characters?I never said that judging something by your own standards is wrong. I'm saying that;
1. People's standards of physical beauty are directly and / or indirectly informed by media where women have been objectified, sexualized and idealized for years.
2. 'Physical beauty' dominates discussion about Aloy in a way it shouldn't while it is near absent from discussion on other (mostly male) characters.
3. There is a difference between having an opinion on someones physical beauty and sharing that opinion in a way that specifically objectifies the person / character in question.No, because there's nothing silly about it. The underlying factors are part of a larger issue within the gaming community and should be pointed out.

I honestly don't understand why a person expressing whether they find a character (or person in RL) attractive or not, is objectifying.

If they claim outright that the character's design is poor on that basis alone, then I can completely understand that. However, I think you'll struggle to find more than one or two posters in this entire thread who did that.

The list of posts you quoted earlier, didn't seem to fit that criteria at all. Mostly at least.

In which case, are you objecting to all comments on the attractiveness of a character at all on this discussion board? As I'd argue that's an somewhat unreasonable position.

 

[vio]

GAF prefers deviantart version of Aloy. Final design not gaf standard hot, would not bang.

 

[30yearsofhurt]

GAF prefers deviantart version of Aloy. Final design not gaf standard hot, would not bang.

Whoa. Steady on. I wouldn't crawl over her to get to you.

 

[2+2=5]

I always preferred the earlier Lightning but I feel I was pretty alone in that.

No i prefer the earlier version too(and for some reason i thought it was the one in the inal game and only changed in the sequels)

That image and this image

are a clear example of nitpicking to prove something, the one with males has mostly main characters from western or western-like AAA fps/tps, while the female one is intentionally more varied.

Some examples:
-there's Samus in the female one, where's Mario in the male one?
-Lighting: where are tidus, cloud, gidan and so on?
-Bayonetta: where are dante, kratos, raiden and so on?
-Ciri: where's geralt?

you can continue as much as you want.

 

[zoukka]

Apparently it is avoidable because it rarely if ever comes up in discussions about other character designs. There's plenty of male characters that I do not find physically attractive, yet you don't see me going into threads complaining about them and claiming that their design is bad. Nor is there a trend of others doing that. Why can't objectifying language be avoided when discussing Aloy?

I don't agree at all, this talk has been around forever and happens every time it's convenient (like this thread where we can see different versions of the same character).