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it's happening.. korg dsn-12

Jaagen

Member
So is this software so good that I should grab it, or are there better programs on my iPad or something? Or both?

As far as I understand, this is a synth emulator. It produces the same analog sound as the Korg MS-10.

I guess there are more powerfull apps for the iPad(and cheaper as well), but it's cool to have such options on the 3DS. The DS-10 was a fun tool to use.

EDIT: Korg does have an analog synth emulator for the iPad as well, the iMS-20.
 

blu

Wants the largest console games publisher to avoid Nintendo's platforms.
What makes them more "casual" if you don't mind me asking?
My impressions are from the iMS-20 mainly (also from the earlier electribe entry, but that's on the sideline, and rather outdated). iMS-20 seems like a complete/truthful emu (from what little I've seen of the original iMS-20), but as such it's limited to 1x dual-VCO and 6x drum channels, the FX settings are numerous but are global ('master fx' is toggled per channel, but settings are still global). But those things are not what makes it more casual. It's the capacitive touch screen - due to the less deterministic response of touch screen, you can easily miss a beat when using any of the controls. So that limits what one can and cannot use during live performances (slow-tempo pattern changing is fine, apparently). On the plus side the dual kaoss pads are great.
 
Okay, so I get that there are programs where you use premade sounds (voices?) to make music, and programs that allow you to completely make your own sounds, then make music.

But it seems this is the latter... But can it also function well as the former? Does this have a variety of presets to use?
 

blu

Wants the largest console games publisher to avoid Nintendo's platforms.
Okay, so I get that there are programs where you use premade sounds (voices?) to make music, and programs that allow you to completely make your own sounds, then make music.

But it seems this is the latter... But can it also function well as the former? Does this have a variety of presets to use?
It does. Though you can create sounds 'from scratch', most of the time, particularly when getting familiar with the system, you'll tweak and tune those presets into your own sounds. Where this approach loses to a bank synth, though, is when you want to get some particular 'real-life instrument' sound - you'd have to be extra good with the analogue synth to get what a bank synth gives you 'out of the box'. Actually, that's why bank synths were invented ; )
 
My impressions are from the iMS-20 mainly (also from the earlier electribe entry, but that's on the sideline, and rather outdated). iMS-20 seems like a complete/truthful emu (from what little I've seen of the original iMS-20), but as such it's limited to 1x dual-VCO and 6x drum channels, the FX settings are numerous but are global ('master fx' is toggled per channel, but settings are still global). But those things are not what makes it more casual. It's the capacitive touch screen - due to the less deterministic response of touch screen, you can easily miss a beat when using any of the controls. So that limits what one can and cannot use during live performances (slow-tempo pattern changing is fine, apparently). On the plus side the dual kaoss pads are great.

But then there's Korg Gadget which blows the MS-10 emulation of DSN-12 out of the water with its great variety.
 

blu

Wants the largest console games publisher to avoid Nintendo's platforms.
I'm a little confused as to whether this or the older 3DS release is better for a beginner--thoughts, anyone?
You mean the older DS release (the original ds-10 is DS software). Well, the older version does give you diagrams of what inputs get connected to what outputs, and as such allows you to get a better picture of how the entire pipeline works. The new one throws out all the diagrams and as such assumes you already have an idea how it all works. Does it make it harder for a beginner? It really depends what a beginner would find hard in an analogue synth, per se. Whatever it is, there are tons of tutorial videos for the ds-10 on youtube, and those are all valid for the dsn-10 as well. DSN-12 does have a nice electronic manual at a keystroke, though.
 
Saw this in the eShop and it looks really interesting, the scope is a nice touch.

People who enjoy this should also really check out Caustic for PC/Android/iOS, try it for free: https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.singlecellsoftware.caustic

It has a sequencer, subtractive synth, fm synth, pcm synth, modular synth, vocoder, drumcomputer, effects, automation and lots more. You can even feed synthesizers or drumcomputers into other synthesizers. The GUI has been brilliantly done for working on small touchscreens.
 
I hope Detune put this and eventually M01 on sale at some point for $20. As I just want it to mess around with I can't justify paying $34.
 
You mean the older DS release (the original ds-10 is DS software). Well, the older version does give you diagrams of what inputs get connected to what outputs, and as such allows you to get a better picture of how the entire pipeline works. The new one throws out all the diagrams and as such assumes you already have an idea how it all works. Does it make it harder for a beginner? It really depends what a beginner would find hard in an analogue synth, per se. Whatever it is, there are tons of tutorial videos for the ds-10 on youtube, and those are all valid for the dsn-10 as well. DSN-12 does have a nice electronic manual at a keystroke, though.

Err, I was referring to the first Korg software release on 3DS.
 

blu

Wants the largest console games publisher to avoid Nintendo's platforms.
Err, I was referring to the first Korg software release on 3DS.
Ah, the M01D. It's a wavebank synth, so it uses preset waveform samples, and presets alone. You can create decently-sounding tracks with it easier than with an analogue synth, but waveform synthesis is beyond M01's capabilities, so the two things pose more of an apples-and-oranges comparison.
 
Ah, the M01D. It's a wavebank synth, so it uses preset waveform samples, and presets alone. You can create decently-sounding tracks with it easier than with an analogue synth, but waveform synthesis is beyond M01's capabilities, so the two things pose more of an apples-and-oranges comparison.

Any way to combine them and make one song?
 

blu

Wants the largest console games publisher to avoid Nintendo's platforms.
Any way to combine them and make one song?
Sure, once you've recorded the two sources, there are all kinds of mixing solutions, both software and hardware.
 
Ah, the M01D. It's a wavebank synth, so it uses preset waveform samples, and presets alone. You can create decently-sounding tracks with it easier than with an analogue synth, but waveform synthesis is beyond M01's capabilities, so the two things pose more of an apples-and-oranges comparison.

Yeesh, I have no idea what I should want!
 

adroit

Member
You can search for "korg" in the U.S. 3DS eShop and find KORG DSN-12. Last time I tried it wasn't there. So this is progress! Release date 10/23/2014. Yay! There is also an interesting two-minute trailer which shows how a Lissajous trace changes as you tweak parameters.
 
Ah, the M01D. It's a wavebank synth, so it uses preset waveform samples, and presets alone. You can create decently-sounding tracks with it easier than with an analogue synth, but waveform synthesis is beyond M01's capabilities, so the two things pose more of an apples-and-oranges comparison.

The more I look into it, the more I think DSN-12 is the software for me. The M01D, while seemingly more straightforward, appears to be for creating a tracks in a linear way. DSN-12, on the other hand, is more about experimentation. Seeing what I come up with organically after creating/playing with sounds is more likely to hold my attention (as someone who can read/play music, but has never been compelled to create it).
 

blu

Wants the largest console games publisher to avoid Nintendo's platforms.
The more I look into it, the more I think DSN-12 is the software for me. The M01D, while seemingly more straightforward, appears to be for creating a tracks in a linear way. DSN-12, on the other hand, is more about experimentation. Seeing what I come up with organically after creating/playing with sounds is more likely to hold my attention (as someone who can read/play music, but has never been compelled to create it).
Sound genesis is definitely the biggest draw in this sort of software for me as well. The fact that you create your waveforms. Sometimes you come up with some waveforms and those guide you in the creation of the tune, sometimes you come up with a tune and then seek the waveforms for it.

ps: a superb 3x ds-10 performance: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dBMtoljX4RU
 

nullset2

Junior Member
Just remembered this existed. I wanna get it but it's effectively the equivalent of 40 bucks on the eshop around here, give or take. Dammit.
 

SodaBeam

Neo Member
Well, I just finished making a track with DSN-12, and I have to say I found it much easier to use than DS-10, which is my only other experience with a synthesizer like this. When I bought KORG DS-10 a few years ago, I spent a lot of time experimenting with making patterns, but I could never really seem to make them coalesce into one song. For me, it really helps that the waveform is displayed visually on the top screen, which makes it easier to understand what is happening when you're turning knobs on the bottom screen. The digital manual is kind of poorly translated, but I found it a little more helpful than DS-10's as well.

The biggest difference for me is the number of patterns you can make though. In DS-10, you have 16 patterns with a maximum of 16 steps each, in DSN-12 you get 64 patterns of up to 64 steps. That makes DSN-12 much easier to use if you're used to (MIDI) sequencers like KORG M01D, because you can sequence an entire song in advance. In DS-10, if you wanted a few variations on a pattern, the pattern bank got crammed full very quickly, unless you edited them on the fly (which I found too complicated). The fact that you only got two synthesizers was also incredibly limiting, having twelve in DSN-12 makes it a lot easier to create layered sounds and harmonies.

So all in all I'm very happy with DSN-12. It improves over DS-10 in every way, as far as I'm concerned. Now what I'd really like to see is software that combines this kind of virtual oscillator synthesizer with a wavebank synth like M01D.

Here's the track I made. It's kind of a hodge-podge, but I wanted to try out a lot of different things.
 
Well, I just finished making a track with DSN-12, and I have to say I found it much easier to use than DS-10, which is my only other experience with a synthesizer like this. When I bought KORG DS-10 a few years ago, I spent a lot of time experimenting with making patterns, but I could never really seem to make them coalesce into one song. For me, it really helps that the waveform is displayed visually on the top screen, which makes it easier to understand what is happening when you're turning knobs on the bottom screen. The digital manual is kind of poorly translated, but I found it a little more helpful than DS-10's as well.

The biggest difference for me is the number of patterns you can make though. In DS-10, you have 16 patterns with a maximum of 16 steps each, in DSN-12 you get 64 patterns of up to 64 steps. That makes DSN-12 much easier to use if you're used to (MIDI) sequencers like KORG M01D, because you can sequence an entire song in advance. In DS-10, if you wanted a few variations on a pattern, the pattern bank got crammed full very quickly, unless you edited them on the fly (which I found too complicated). The fact that you only got two synthesizers was also incredibly limiting, having twelve in DSN-12 makes it a lot easier to create layered sounds and harmonies.

So all in all I'm very happy with DSN-12. It improves over DS-10 in every way, as far as I'm concerned. Now what I'd really to see is software that combines this kind of virtual oscillator synthesizer with a wavebank synth like M01D.

Here's the track I made. It's kind of a hodge-podge, but I wanted to try out a lot of different things.

Great work, dude!

I wish there was a tutorial out there that shows how to make sounds that aren't total ass. I've been playing with DSN-12 for a bit, but nothing I come up with even begins to resemble music. I'd kill for a comprehensive video tutorial, as I find the software to be pretty fascinating.
 

SodaBeam

Neo Member
Great work, dude!

I wish there was a tutorial out there that shows how to make sounds that aren't total ass. I've been playing with DSN-12 for a bit, but nothing I come up with even begins to resemble music. I'd kill for a comprehensive video tutorial, as I find the software to be pretty fascinating.

Thanks! Yeah, I know how you feel. I had the same problem with the old KORG DS-10. I can't point you to a tutorial unfortunately, but what have you tried so far? Have you tried writing a short test melody, or just a long line of notes, and turning all the knobs on the synth screen to hear (and see) what effects they have on the sound wave?
 

kramer

Member
You could look at tutorials on YouTube for MS10, which would help and show you how the controls affect the sound. It should replicate pretty much the exact same sound on dsn-12.

Or tutorials for MS-20. Slightly different, has a larger patch bay - but fine for general controls and understanding.
 
DSN-12 uses standard subtractive synthesis techniques that are common across many types of analog synthesizers, so you can follow any tutorial on basic synthesis and apply it to DSN-12 or DS-10.

Sound on Sound's Synth Secrets series is really excellent (start at the bottom): http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/allsynthsecrets.htm

The ARP 2600 manual is also a fantastic (and well-written) introduction: http://guitarfool.com/ARP2600/Arp 2600 Owners Manual.pdf

The original MS-20 manual should be helpful, too: http://i.korg.com/uploads/Support/USA_ms20_OM_efg_2012.pdf

Also check out the MS-20 patchbook: http://i.korg.com/uploads/Support/USA_ms20_setting_ej_2012.pdf
 

Micken

Banned
Man, I'm kinda tempted to get this... $20 is a little much for something I don't even know I'll use much or even like, though...
 
Man, I'm kinda tempted to get this... $20 is a little much for something I don't even know I'll use much or even like, though...

That's where I'm at with this. I think I like the idea of DSN-12 more than I'd like the actual thing, but I still kind of want it.

I think if you can make shitty tunes just by fiddling around, I'd be happy, but if producing anything at all will take hundreds of tutorials then I'm out.
 

blu

Wants the largest console games publisher to avoid Nintendo's platforms.
That's where I'm at with this. I think I like the idea of DSN-12 more than I'd like the actual thing, but I still kind of want it.

I think if you can make shitty tunes just by fiddling around, I'd be happy, but if producing anything at all will take hundreds of tutorials then I'm out.
Mastering an analogue synth (not that I have, but I've at least spent some time tinkering with it) is a continuous process. You can get your first tune up in no time. It will be technically nowhere near your one-month-mark tune, which in its turn will be technically inferior to your half-year-mark tune. But if you have the slightest of musical creativity, you'll be enjoying yourself immensely along the entire way.
 
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