George Oscar Bluth II
Banned
I didn't know there's a Marcus Garvey Park in Harlem. We have a small park named after him here in my local area (in London) because he lived and died here.
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Marvel's Luke Cage *SPOILER THREAD* |OT| Where WAS His Money, Honey?
- Thread starter TheOddOne
- Start date
Clams don't have the ability to fuck Jessica Jones and Misty Knight.
Just finished it. There were definitely some serious missteps (literally everything to do with Diamondback) but I think I'm in for more. Shades & Mariah (and her boy Alex) are excellent, Misty's great, and the show's got plenty of style. Sits right on the precipice of being trash but just narrowly avoided collapsing on the home stretch.
Just finished it. Season started very strong and was good up until Cornell's death. After that everything went downhill.
-Side characters were overall very strong. Luke Cage was for the most part the least interesting character, which can be a good thing, although it's bad for the second half of the show because of the antagonists.
-It doesn't get more boring and generic that Diamondback and Shades. Both awful. You can have exceedingly boring villains or heroes, not both.
-Cornell and Mariah were both solid. Shoutout to Alex. They did not do as good as a job selling Mariah as someone who wants to improve their city DD did with Fisk. A new Harlem renaissance sounds nice, but I'm not sure what that actually entails on a policy level.
-It was good to see Claire get some more characterization and be more than "the nurse".
Even if its overused I can deal with the boss is crazy enough to shoot his own men thing. But twice in one season? smh
Who is this great lawyer you know Claire? Is it Foggy? Since based of what we saw of Matt last season it sure isn't him.
MVPs:
The guy pushing the benign neglect angle
Turk for randomly showing up on the roof
The definitive Marvel Netflix show rankings
1. DD S1
2. DD S2
3. JJ S1
4. LC S1
JJ is only higher that LC because it has higher highs. Although thinking back the neighbors were really annoying. Hmm, JJ and LC are pretty close, both DD seasons are significantly better.
Anyways, pretty disappointing since this show has a stronger start than all the others. Hopefully a potential S2 could improve things.
-Side characters were overall very strong. Luke Cage was for the most part the least interesting character, which can be a good thing, although it's bad for the second half of the show because of the antagonists.
-It doesn't get more boring and generic that Diamondback and Shades. Both awful. You can have exceedingly boring villains or heroes, not both.
-Cornell and Mariah were both solid. Shoutout to Alex. They did not do as good as a job selling Mariah as someone who wants to improve their city DD did with Fisk. A new Harlem renaissance sounds nice, but I'm not sure what that actually entails on a policy level.
-It was good to see Claire get some more characterization and be more than "the nurse".
Even if its overused I can deal with the boss is crazy enough to shoot his own men thing. But twice in one season? smh
Who is this great lawyer you know Claire? Is it Foggy? Since based of what we saw of Matt last season it sure isn't him.
MVPs:
The guy pushing the benign neglect angle
Turk for randomly showing up on the roof
The definitive Marvel Netflix show rankings
1. DD S1
2. DD S2
3. JJ S1
4. LC S1
JJ is only higher that LC because it has higher highs. Although thinking back the neighbors were really annoying. Hmm, JJ and LC are pretty close, both DD seasons are significantly better.
Anyways, pretty disappointing since this show has a stronger start than all the others. Hopefully a potential S2 could improve things.
GuitarAtomik
Member
"I'm Turk Barrett bay-be! Ain't a door yet that hold could hold me back."
That whole situation had me rollin. Dude just casually strolls in to a whole other scene opening with "Where's my money?!" lol.
This show and JJ feels like they are really nerfing their protags powers because that combat was just as bad. The part where they show Luke and Striker fighting on the tv was hilarious in how awful it looked.
This show only just edges out JJ because of the better side characters, music, and the fact that was no annoying bitchy neighbor.
This show only just edges out JJ because of the better side characters, music, and the fact that was no annoying bitchy neighbor.
Jay Shadow
Member
Almost said as often as "Luke Cage is innocent"
At least they didn't abuse Sweet Christmas!
Poodlestrike
Banned
Finished it just in time for the VP debate! Think it might be my overall favorite of the Marvel Netflix shoes. Definitely stuck the landing best. Gorgeous visuals and atmosphere, and that music! Damn! I also really enjoyed the twists and turns in the plot. Character writing was on-point. And the fight scenes were super fun, by and large. The show really heavily favors a one-sided Curb Stomp Battles, which is a really fun contrast with Daredevil. Much less intricate, but they had me giggling.
Only actual problem was Diamondback's truly godawful suit. Like, what kinda shoestring-ass budget do you have to be on to think that a flight suit over what looks like a poofy yellow sweater is a good idea? Sweet Christmas.
Oh, and I wouldn't have committed so heavily to the flashbacks that late in the game. I get what they were doing, but at the same time, focusing a little more on the single genuine mano-a-mano fight in the present would've been cool.
I was so unbelievably bummed that they never actually followed through with that. Not even any JJ in here, smh. Cross the streams damn youuuuuuuuu
Only actual problem was Diamondback's truly godawful suit. Like, what kinda shoestring-ass budget do you have to be on to think that a flight suit over what looks like a poofy yellow sweater is a good idea? Sweet Christmas.
Oh, and I wouldn't have committed so heavily to the flashbacks that late in the game. I get what they were doing, but at the same time, focusing a little more on the single genuine mano-a-mano fight in the present would've been cool.
I was so unbelievably bummed that they never actually followed through with that. Not even any JJ in here, smh. Cross the streams damn youuuuuuuuu
WrenchNinja
Member
why the fuck are people clapping at a funeral viewing
GekigangerV
Member
I agree with almost all of that except for Shades. Cottonmouth was amazing and cast a huge shadow for all the other villains on the show, but Shades was on the more adequate side. His performance seemed a bit stiff at times as did other members of the cast, but I think that is because the dialogue was a bit stiff in the script so it didn't transfer well to the spoken word.
"Action" scenes were lacking in excitement or creativity. Seeing a hoodie get full of bullet holes ended up coming back around to something at the end with Method Man, but there was nothing visually engaging. I think the most memorable action scene is the elevator fight between Shades and Zip. I know budget really limits what they can do, but busting through a couple of walls or floor or ceiling to surprise someone would have been nice.
The Hermit
Member
this is starting to get too on the nose
Btw, I fast forward the last 3 episodes
Only good show was Daredevil 1 (mostly because of Fisk btw), rest is average to shit
TheGreatDirector
Banned
Just finished the show. Not sure how I'd rank it now. The plot fell of a bit by the second half but the actual ending felt pretty strong and in a weird way, like everything came back full circle.
Luke was a great protagonist for me. Maybe I'm not as good of a critic as I thought I was but I never really felt like his acting was weak. There's a gentlemen like nature to Luke's character where he's almost always contained and polite in conversation. I found it appropriate considering how destructive he could be if he let loose. That doesn't mean he didn't show emotion at all. There are scenes like his monologue before the Crispus Attucks fight that are delivered powerfully by him. While I didn't necessarily care for his family arc in the latter half of the show his dynamic with the public and police really engaged me due to how gray things were.
Cottonmouth was fantastic in the first half of the season. It was a shock when they killed them but a real shame they took him out of the picture so early. Diamondback never reached the highs he did. His campiness felt off-putting at first but lines like "Diet Obama...Yes we can" made him entertaining even if he didn't have the same presence. His conflict with Luke never felt truly genuine though as it was such an out of the blue occurrence.
The supporting cast was REALLY strong in this show however. Way better than Jessica Jones and Daredevil in that regard. Misty Knight had a great arc throughout the show questioning the failings of the system and her need of control. Mariah stole the show in the final episode, playing the police like a fiddle and making her my most anticipated character to see in the future. Shades was cool from beginning to end and how a nice arc himself. Claire and Luke chemistry was actually really nice and I'm surprising they actually made it romantic by the end. I'm fully expecting Claire to die in Defenders at this point though.
All the minor roles like Bobby Fish and Turk were great too. Characters like that really added to the atmosphere of Harlem, making you really feel how alive the community was both day and night.
However, the thing that stood out most in the show was the topic of race. The whole scene in episode 12 with people wearing bullet ridden hoodies to throw off the cops really got to me. You know, the media shows black guys and girls shot to hell every other week by a cop and you sometimes end up telling yourself just to bare with it and accept how things are. Yet when you see a cultural icon who's black and bulletproof and does acts of heroism without a mask it really becomes inspiring. The bullet ridden hoodie means that yes, we've been shot up to hell and back but guess what? We have hope.
Luke was a great protagonist for me. Maybe I'm not as good of a critic as I thought I was but I never really felt like his acting was weak. There's a gentlemen like nature to Luke's character where he's almost always contained and polite in conversation. I found it appropriate considering how destructive he could be if he let loose. That doesn't mean he didn't show emotion at all. There are scenes like his monologue before the Crispus Attucks fight that are delivered powerfully by him. While I didn't necessarily care for his family arc in the latter half of the show his dynamic with the public and police really engaged me due to how gray things were.
Cottonmouth was fantastic in the first half of the season. It was a shock when they killed them but a real shame they took him out of the picture so early. Diamondback never reached the highs he did. His campiness felt off-putting at first but lines like "Diet Obama...Yes we can" made him entertaining even if he didn't have the same presence. His conflict with Luke never felt truly genuine though as it was such an out of the blue occurrence.
The supporting cast was REALLY strong in this show however. Way better than Jessica Jones and Daredevil in that regard. Misty Knight had a great arc throughout the show questioning the failings of the system and her need of control. Mariah stole the show in the final episode, playing the police like a fiddle and making her my most anticipated character to see in the future. Shades was cool from beginning to end and how a nice arc himself. Claire and Luke chemistry was actually really nice and I'm surprising they actually made it romantic by the end. I'm fully expecting Claire to die in Defenders at this point though.
All the minor roles like Bobby Fish and Turk were great too. Characters like that really added to the atmosphere of Harlem, making you really feel how alive the community was both day and night.
However, the thing that stood out most in the show was the topic of race. The whole scene in episode 12 with people wearing bullet ridden hoodies to throw off the cops really got to me. You know, the media shows black guys and girls shot to hell every other week by a cop and you sometimes end up telling yourself just to bare with it and accept how things are. Yet when you see a cultural icon who's black and bulletproof and does acts of heroism without a mask it really becomes inspiring. The bullet ridden hoodie means that yes, we've been shot up to hell and back but guess what? We have hope.
hodayathink
Member
You've never heard a good sermon, have you?
Just because there's an explanation doesn't mean it's realistic or stands up to real world scrutiny. I'm just saying if you can buy that dumping a guy into magic juice and setting off an explosion gives him super powers, it's less of a leap to buy that in that universe, there exists a method that can bypass a lock screen on a phone. Mostly because in the real world lock screens aren't impenetrable.
And The Wire is full of goofy shit too, which isn't a criticism because it largely doesn't matter.
Just finished it and I agree with the overall opinion of most people. I loved everything about the show except for the Diamondback stuff. None of that worked at all and with everything else working so well, it seems so odd that they even had him in there, let alone make it as bad as was. Did some Marvel or Netflix hire up force them to put in a character that would be strong like Luke despite the show not needing him at all? I wanted to punch the screen when I saw that scientist guy in his hospital room at the end. Please don't bring him back!
Despite that, the show deserves a lot of praise for how well done everything else is. So many really good characters that I enjoyed watching. It's nice when a show can go away from it's main character and be just as good, if not even better. The show was also shot and produced extremely well, with the music really sticking out.
It really is such a strange show because in some ways it's my favorite Marvel/Netflix shows, but unfortunately in others ways I think it's the worst. I'm definitely up for more though, and I'm excited to see that damn lawyer they keep talking about finally show up. We got Iron Fist up next though which I'm also very excited about.
Despite that, the show deserves a lot of praise for how well done everything else is. So many really good characters that I enjoyed watching. It's nice when a show can go away from it's main character and be just as good, if not even better. The show was also shot and produced extremely well, with the music really sticking out.
It really is such a strange show because in some ways it's my favorite Marvel/Netflix shows, but unfortunately in others ways I think it's the worst. I'm definitely up for more though, and I'm excited to see that damn lawyer they keep talking about finally show up. We got Iron Fist up next though which I'm also very excited about.
Funerals are a good reminder to celebrate life.
TheContact
Member
So I really liked the show but there were a lot of poorly scripted moments that doesn't make sense: to name a few, in no particular order:
Stryker letting cage get away in the garbage truck only to send a search party for him after
The brawl between Stryker and cage in the street with people getting super close to the action and the cops not getting people away to safety, even at one point letting the nurse stand IN FRONT of a cop
Stryker henchman letting the nurse get the medicine instead of sending one of his men to do it alone
The rocket not killing the Chinese lady as she escapes with only a broken leg
The reused "corny" lines as if it was almost self aware of how bad it was
Mariah lost political power yet was still in a political status
The club getting shot up every week yet the next day it's filled with people dancing
When Stryker is chasing cage, he tries to kill him but then when cage hides behind the car, he backs off as if he has no idea where he was. Plus he had numerous opportunities to kill him. At first I thought it was because he was his half bro and he was holding back, but it's clear he just wanted him dead
Misty getting shot in the arm and losing a TON of blood yet was walking around normally the same night
There's more too I can't remember all of them
Cottonmouth was the best character on the show and they killed him off wtf
Stryker letting cage get away in the garbage truck only to send a search party for him after
The brawl between Stryker and cage in the street with people getting super close to the action and the cops not getting people away to safety, even at one point letting the nurse stand IN FRONT of a cop
Stryker henchman letting the nurse get the medicine instead of sending one of his men to do it alone
The rocket not killing the Chinese lady as she escapes with only a broken leg
The reused "corny" lines as if it was almost self aware of how bad it was
Mariah lost political power yet was still in a political status
The club getting shot up every week yet the next day it's filled with people dancing
When Stryker is chasing cage, he tries to kill him but then when cage hides behind the car, he backs off as if he has no idea where he was. Plus he had numerous opportunities to kill him. At first I thought it was because he was his half bro and he was holding back, but it's clear he just wanted him dead
Misty getting shot in the arm and losing a TON of blood yet was walking around normally the same night
There's more too I can't remember all of them
Cottonmouth was the best character on the show and they killed him off wtf
BlazinSkatinAxel
Member
I agree about Cottonmouth. He should've stayed two seasons.
The corny lines were self aware.
Zeus Molecules
illegal immigrants are stealing our air
It happens .....
fallengorn
Bitches love smiley faces
They just ate.
Spiral Insanity
Banned
It is a comic book tv show, not The Wire as some people said before. I think these are all reasonable 'plot holes'.
But there are so much more though. They make it a point to note that the computer guy discovered through facial recognition software that the person who killed the cop wasn't Luke Cage. He shows it to Misty and then ... what, Misty goes "I knew it", puts the print-out through a paper shredder, and proceeds to tell no one? Because they're still hunting the "cop killer" Luke Cage hours later.
It is really like the second half was written by someone who didn't care. If we just go "it's a comic book tv show!" and not complain, then they'll never have reason to step up their game.
It is really like the second half was written by someone who didn't care. If we just go "it's a comic book tv show!" and not complain, then they'll never have reason to step up their game.
Poodlestrike
Banned
Cottonmouth getting killed was a shitty decision, I agree. Not "let's kill Ben Ulrich" levels of wasted potential, but still really dumb. Dude had way more presence than most anybody else in the show. Woulda loved to see him contrasted directly against Diamondback. I'd have had him kill Mariah by accident, then try to step up publically by pinning her death on Cage. Finish off the season with him making an enemy mine pact against Diamondback.
The plot holes don't really bother me that much, tbh. They're there, but the show does a reasonably good job of glossing over or justifying them. The one thing that bothers me is that apparently whoever's in charge of that precinct just cannot for the life of them manage to keep anybody in. I think there's no fewer than 5-6 separate cases of people getting brought in with a ton of evidence, even if it's circumstantial, and then immediately walking out. Cottonmouth, Shades, Mariah, all of 'em just walk away.
The plot holes don't really bother me that much, tbh. They're there, but the show does a reasonably good job of glossing over or justifying them. The one thing that bothers me is that apparently whoever's in charge of that precinct just cannot for the life of them manage to keep anybody in. I think there's no fewer than 5-6 separate cases of people getting brought in with a ton of evidence, even if it's circumstantial, and then immediately walking out. Cottonmouth, Shades, Mariah, all of 'em just walk away.
Poodlestrike
Banned
Really? I thought it was quite good, by Netflix Marvel standards. Yes, the flashbacks took away from the fight (not to mention that hideous costume), but thematically having Luke go back to Georgia was some resonant shit, and the fight itself wasn't half bad.
Jay Shadow
Member
Really took a nosedive at the end.
"He's not my brother" walks into church "oh wait, he is my brother". If the signs were there all along, Luke couldn't have pieced that together after Diamondback told him without walking into a location that had no new information in it?
There really should be no way to explain away assaulting those 2 police officers that lets you walk out of a police station. Oh I was shot and dying isn't a valid excuse to throw a guy across the street and take his car, police or not.
In the end Luke accomplishes absolutely nothing in the entire series. Other than accepting being a hero, which you already assume going into it cause why would there be a tv series about him otherwise? Didn't really feel like a legit journey to me. I guess you could say he inspires the community, but not a single bad guy was taken off the street by him. They were all eliminated by already existing other bad guys in the community, who then filled the power vacuum themselves. So Harlem is in the exact same situation as before. I'm generally more about the journey than the destination on shows, but the destination was just a circle. And really I think all they had to do was remove that Diamondback clip in the montage to at least make you feel like he at least took 1 guy off the street.
Only characters that felt like they truly progressed at all were Mariah embracing the bad and Claire setting out and accomplishing her new role as hero support system. Even Misty, who was a good character, went from believing in the need for police procedures, to getting burned by not using police procedures. So in the end she was right in the first place.
I liked the characters, but it felt like a prequel to an already established series that never happened. Even more so than other Marvel productions that try not to upset the status quo.
"He's not my brother" walks into church "oh wait, he is my brother". If the signs were there all along, Luke couldn't have pieced that together after Diamondback told him without walking into a location that had no new information in it?
There really should be no way to explain away assaulting those 2 police officers that lets you walk out of a police station. Oh I was shot and dying isn't a valid excuse to throw a guy across the street and take his car, police or not.
In the end Luke accomplishes absolutely nothing in the entire series. Other than accepting being a hero, which you already assume going into it cause why would there be a tv series about him otherwise? Didn't really feel like a legit journey to me. I guess you could say he inspires the community, but not a single bad guy was taken off the street by him. They were all eliminated by already existing other bad guys in the community, who then filled the power vacuum themselves. So Harlem is in the exact same situation as before. I'm generally more about the journey than the destination on shows, but the destination was just a circle. And really I think all they had to do was remove that Diamondback clip in the montage to at least make you feel like he at least took 1 guy off the street.
Only characters that felt like they truly progressed at all were Mariah embracing the bad and Claire setting out and accomplishing her new role as hero support system. Even Misty, who was a good character, went from believing in the need for police procedures, to getting burned by not using police procedures. So in the end she was right in the first place.
I liked the characters, but it felt like a prequel to an already established series that never happened. Even more so than other Marvel productions that try not to upset the status quo.
It's tough because some of the ancillary stuff was so good. That little segment of bumping into Method Man, the bullet hoodie taking off, Method Man on radio. Honestly I wish the show was plotless, twenty minute episodes of shit like that.
Except if they did that they'd probably have a Mike Tyson episode which... yikes.
Except if they did that they'd probably have a Mike Tyson episode which... yikes.
Finished the other day.
Very much enjoyed it. As others have said, Cornell's death left a hole that Diamondback couldn't fill though. Didn't have a problem with the pacing; I enjoyed the slow burn to be honest.
Claire was as good as ever, and Misty was the biggest highlight for me.
Colter did a great job too, as did most of the cast to be honest. Loved Method Man!
JJ is still the best series IMO, and DD 1 and 2 have higher highs, but the whole Marvel/Netflix thing is great.
Being on Iron Fist and The Defenders...though really I just want more Bernthal.
Very much enjoyed it. As others have said, Cornell's death left a hole that Diamondback couldn't fill though. Didn't have a problem with the pacing; I enjoyed the slow burn to be honest.
Claire was as good as ever, and Misty was the biggest highlight for me.
Colter did a great job too, as did most of the cast to be honest. Loved Method Man!
JJ is still the best series IMO, and DD 1 and 2 have higher highs, but the whole Marvel/Netflix thing is great.
Being on Iron Fist and The Defenders...though really I just want more Bernthal.
The Jackdog
Member
I was real into this show in the beginning.
But....the fights are way bad. They just dont look good. I guess I cant be too mean its a tv show but daredevil set a high bar.
Diamondback, good actor portraying him,, but holy shit that suit. that fight. it just felt so cheap.
Honestly i just felt like it completely lost steam after cottonmouth died
But....the fights are way bad. They just dont look good. I guess I cant be too mean its a tv show but daredevil set a high bar.
Diamondback, good actor portraying him,, but holy shit that suit. that fight. it just felt so cheap.
Honestly i just felt like it completely lost steam after cottonmouth died
Zemo being locked up in maximum security and Tony and Steve already on the first step towards reconciling doesn't speak to me of a villainous victory and it never will do, sorry.
Yeah, doesnt matter how it seems to you.
This was a problem with Jessica Jones too. You can't have a MAJORITY of your series be "we shouldn't kill him" and then just decide "nevermind, let's kill him" in the final two episodes. It's not an arc. It's just a circle reaffirming her desires from the first appearance.
I really think the Netflix deal for 12-13 episodes is hurting them, because almost none of the shows thus far earn those episodes and would've been better written and have better arcs at half the length.
The entire Irish mob also went down by the Punisher. It's been a bad year for mob bosses.
WrenchNinja
Member
sure, that's what eulogies are for though
i dunno, i've been to a lot of funerals unfortunately but i've never seen anyone clap in them. seems a little weird. i don't know how many halls were in that parlor, maybe there's just one so it wouldn't be that big of a deal.
Orbis Tabula
Member
Just finally finished it. I don't have many original thoughts, though. I think my views kind of echo the consensus: I really, really liked it. While it didn't have some of the problems that have dragged down the other Netflix shows, the last episode (especially the final battle) was suuuuuper lame. I don't even mind Diamondback's lame ass super suit. I kind of liked it. But I just thought the fight was pretty stupid. Still, looking forward to more. Do we know if Misty Knight is gonna be in Iron Fist? Because I fucking hope so.
Oddly aggressive, but okay.
More_Badass
Member
It's called a power vacuum and the Hand and Kingpin are just waiting for the moment to fill it
Itchy//Tasty
Member
Episode 11 really reminded me of Die Hard (but in a club). Episode 13 was like a Rocky film. Probably intentional.
Similar threads
- Poll