Sony now your turn. . .
Sony?
Sony will take longer because March is their end of the fiscal year. Takes a lot more work than just a regular end of quarter like Microsoft.
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Microsoft Reveals Q3 Results - 1.4 M 360's Shipped
- Thread starter Parmenides
- Start date
Sony will take longer because March is their end of the fiscal year. Takes a lot more work than just a regular end of quarter like Microsoft.
They usual lump the cost into one quarter so it doesn't look as bad as having 2,3 or more quarters of loses due to it.
CrunchinJelly
formerly cjelly
Not surprising. December was disappointing and sales have pretty much shit the bed worldwide so far this year.
Do you think all X360s they had shipped until December were sold out?
bigtroyjon
Member
Sony reports every quarter weeks later than Microsoft does. They have hundreds and hundreds of subsidiaries all over the world which is the reason for the delay.
Oh duh, thanks guys. $385 million still sounds like a lot, but as I just showed, I obviously don't know much about the financial side of this business =p
Sportbilly
Member
I take it $3 of the R&D spend was lavished on GfWL.
Yup. Was expected after those huge numbers last quarter. Still holding well though. Probably prince drop this year for both ps360
Projectjustice
Banned
Its time for a new generation to start.
bigtroyjon
Member
I don't think the holiday quarter is as over shipped as many seem to think. US sales for the Jan-Mar quarter were right in line with 2010 when they shipped 1.5 million. Last year was an anomaly due to the Kinect launch and the supply issues it created.
OldJadedGamer
Banned
Didn't seem to hurt the PS2 sales to introduce a new console.
Drop the price and announce next already, MS. These YOY drops are very worrying.
kthx
IMO black Friday last year proved that there is still a demand for current gen systems, just not at their current price points.
shinra-bansho
Member
Actually thought the number would be lower (closer to a million), considering how anomalously high the holiday quarter was relative to known sell through.
Well obviously, with something like $129 for 4GB version people would go nuts.
specialguy
Banned
Yes. Us sales nuts expected this, with that blowout 4th Q you could see it coming.
specialguy
Banned
Huh? It's almost always profitable.
Xbox is profitable, so the high loss must be something else. WP7? Durango R&D?
Edit:
Doesn't look like Durango R&D is any huge factor, as 100m increase in R&D isn't that huge, and could also be WP7/8 related etc.
bigtroyjon
Member
Gaming question about new console cycle-
They feel good about market position and strategy and then the call cut out for me.
Anyone catch the rest of that?
They feel good about market position and strategy and then the call cut out for me.
Anyone catch the rest of that?
Hiro_Kunimi_80
Member
i don't think neither durango or other devices costs as R&D would be covered only by this Q3... i believe the R&D founding for the next console started even before kinect launch, and continue for at least 1 other year so... it's just diluted during each fiscal year..
MS Window Phone market share actually decreased, and there wasn't much to begin with. They will have a long, uphill battle with WP8. Android and IOS are so entrenched now I don't think Windows Phone will ever be more than a tiny fragment of the market. I didn't see any W8 tablet forecasts either, but this will be a tough mountain to climb too.
MS is lucky the Xbox took off, because it is the only thing saving the entertainment division from disaster.
MS is lucky the Xbox took off, because it is the only thing saving the entertainment division from disaster.
bigtroyjon
Member
So I guess nobody was listening?
Aside from the question I missed, the only thing of significance to gaming was that they expect EDD to have double digit growth next quarter. They need shipments to increase yoy by .1 million to tie last FY, price cut at E3 and the shipments to stores in response would be one way to beat last FY.
Edit-Listened to the question on the replay, nothing interesting, same old blah blah about people watching entertainment and totally ignored the part of the question asking about a new console cycle.
Aside from the question I missed, the only thing of significance to gaming was that they expect EDD to have double digit growth next quarter. They need shipments to increase yoy by .1 million to tie last FY, price cut at E3 and the shipments to stores in response would be one way to beat last FY.
Edit-Listened to the question on the replay, nothing interesting, same old blah blah about people watching entertainment and totally ignored the part of the question asking about a new console cycle.
windows phone market share has been increasing
you are confusing it with the windows mobile market share
Infamous Chris
Banned
WP7 is pretty amazing, I hope they keep up the Nokia advertisements I've been seeing. That things a beast.
Yep, as its been said, R&D costs for the nextbox play a role in these numbers. I wonder if its anything significant or not...
Yep, as its been said, R&D costs for the nextbox play a role in these numbers. I wonder if its anything significant or not...
Syphon Filter
Member
price cut late summer.
True, but the Nokia Lumina isn't exactly setting the world on fire in terms of sales. Nokia just reported a 1.7 billion dollar loss today too, and said W7 phone sales have been luke warm at best. Windows Phone market share is still miniscule compared to Android and iphones. There hasn't been an altering trajectory either where windows phones are going to suddenly accelerate in sales.
Nokia (and AT&T) have said that 900 sales are ahead of expectations in the U.S., though they're apparently having some issues gaining traction in some other markets. The U.S. is by far the more important market, though, so if they can keep up the pace they can make some inroads. Unlike the general public I think Nokia and Microsoft both know it's going to be a long, Bing-esque slog to marketshare and profitability. They have to do it, though. So long as they keep producing such good hardware and software they'll make some headway eventually.
Good quarter for the company overall. Nice to see Windows up, especially so close to a new release. Should say something good about PC sales. If S&T keeps up like this it'll soon be the new second-most important division and cash cow.
Good quarter for the company overall. Nice to see Windows up, especially so close to a new release. Should say something good about PC sales. If S&T keeps up like this it'll soon be the new second-most important division and cash cow.
AgentP
Thinks mods influence posters politics. Promoted to QAnon Editor.
So basically they lose a little every quarter until a Halo release and then they are black for the year? I wonder if XBL is profitable yet, I just read something where they said MS has never claimed profit on XBL, they just brag about revenue.
bigtroyjon
Member
Nothing in your post is correct.
what is this shit
Infamous Chris
Banned
Auto_aim1
MeisaMcCaffrey
Check the facts before you post next time.
Cygnus X-1
Member
I thought that Zune was discontinued last year.
evil solrac v3.0
Member
100 million increase in R&D? that doesn't sound like a lot to create a new console. could that be a hint that they are going to use off the shelf parts?
Yes, poor little Microsoft, struggling to make it in this world where big companies can crush great ideas with their deep pockets. Why won't someone think of the little guy?
It is in the black, but the Xbox brand is part of the larger EE division which includes Windows Phone, Zune and other media devices that are in the red. Also Project Durango (next Xbox) R&D costs are included. So as whole the division is net negative but the Xbox platform is well in the black and has been for a long time.
They report on divisions.
bigtroyjon
Member
So looking at the info a little bit more and this quarter really highlights how much of a drain the rest of the division is on profits compared to the Xbox platform. Basically Xbox profits have to be massive in order to prop up the division and in a slower Xbox quarter like this the division has no chance of making a profit.
Xbox revenue drops by 584 million and division profit drops by 439 million. That's a striking number, even taking into account the 100 million increase in R&D. I'm thinking Xbox 360 profits are much higher than I previously thought, maybe in the multiple billions of dollar range, an extra 100 million a quarter over the last 3-4 years.
Other interesting piece of info was the Cost of Revenue numbers. CoR declined only 6% while Xbox revenue declined 33%(which was mainly hardware revenue declines). They mentioned some of that difference is Windows Phone but still, even if Windows Phone cut that number in half from 12% that's a pretty hefty profit margin on hardware.
Xbox revenue drops by 584 million and division profit drops by 439 million. That's a striking number, even taking into account the 100 million increase in R&D. I'm thinking Xbox 360 profits are much higher than I previously thought, maybe in the multiple billions of dollar range, an extra 100 million a quarter over the last 3-4 years.
Other interesting piece of info was the Cost of Revenue numbers. CoR declined only 6% while Xbox revenue declined 33%(which was mainly hardware revenue declines). They mentioned some of that difference is Windows Phone but still, even if Windows Phone cut that number in half from 12% that's a pretty hefty profit margin on hardware.
Cygnus X-1
Member
Nice to hear. Sure Kinect extended X360's lifecycle of at least 1.5-2 years. Impressive.
WTF? lol...
Apple has poked the hornets nest and may not like what they find. The new Lumia 900 is a vastly better phone than the iPhone. I expect share to begin heading back up. When Win8 launches across tablets and phones, MS should start taking significant share from both Android and Apple. evereyone always forgets the business market. MS has a great shot at getting blackberry-like adoption with phones and tablets. I definitely wouldn't be surprised if Apple lost about 70-80% of its value in the next 3 years.
pseudocaesar
Member
So did they overship last quarter so they could say they were the highest selling console in 2011?
Simple truth comparing Lumia 900 to iPhone 4S. Lumia is a vastly better device, including industrial design. Read some reviews.
FateBreaker
Member
They have had a profitable quarter every quarter for years now. This breaks the trend.
No they had an enormous November and december didn't experience historical percentage increases.
What is this nonsense? How else do you expect a company with a superior product to overcome irrational brand power? MS now has the best phone OS on the market. I expect that gap to widen even more with WP8. The Lumia proves that windows phones can compete on design. So all that is left to drive awareness.
James Sawyer Ford
Gold Member
These are the lowest shipments Microsoft has had for this quarter since 2007. Obviously as a result from their massive overshipment last quarter.
PS3's lowest shipment for this quarter was 1.6 million, to put this in perspective. And the past few years they've been north of 2 million.
I haven't done the NPD / Media Create comparison for PS3 this quarter compared to last year, but they likely aren't down significantly just going by last month's NPD numbers. So they'll probably be around, or just slightly under 2 million for the quarter year as well.
Things will normalize in the next few quarters, and if Microsoft is expecting hardware growth then that obviously suggests a price cut later on in the year. Will be interesting to see if Sony counters with a price cut of their own. When Sony releases their fiscal report they usually include a forecast which tips their hand regarding price cuts. If they expect next year's sales to be no growth or slight growth, that means a price cut. If they project sales to be down next year, don't expect a price cut at all.
All the console manufacturers are running into the late-gen downward trending sales until new hardware is released. They're at the point where price cuts aren't as effective, and where they've reached a limit on how much they're able to cut at all.
PS3's lowest shipment for this quarter was 1.6 million, to put this in perspective. And the past few years they've been north of 2 million.
I haven't done the NPD / Media Create comparison for PS3 this quarter compared to last year, but they likely aren't down significantly just going by last month's NPD numbers. So they'll probably be around, or just slightly under 2 million for the quarter year as well.
Things will normalize in the next few quarters, and if Microsoft is expecting hardware growth then that obviously suggests a price cut later on in the year. Will be interesting to see if Sony counters with a price cut of their own. When Sony releases their fiscal report they usually include a forecast which tips their hand regarding price cuts. If they expect next year's sales to be no growth or slight growth, that means a price cut. If they project sales to be down next year, don't expect a price cut at all.
All the console manufacturers are running into the late-gen downward trending sales until new hardware is released. They're at the point where price cuts aren't as effective, and where they've reached a limit on how much they're able to cut at all.
OldJadedGamer
Banned
Mac users have been asking this same thing for decades.