Support NeoGAF

[Stripper13]

That statement is irrelevant. As I said in that post, I'm not talking about fanboyism and whatnot, I am simply stating that it feels totally bogus that they did not increase their essentially "guaranteed buyers" by even a little bit, hell by the end of the 8th gen we might have found out that those numbers are down. It just seems bogus, that those that buy Nintendo hardware are dying, as in there's no growth, even with the 7th gen success. It just seems totally bogus. Usually it doesn't happen this way in toys/electronics, but here we are.

The fact of the matter is, the ONLY place to see Mario, Link, Samus, Mike Jones, Little Mac, DK, and Olimar is on Nintendo. Are the people who like and buy these literally dying off? Have they really completely failed in attracting any new fans? I am not saying this is the case, but it feels like Star Trek franchise in the late 90s-early 21st century all over again (where the fandom numbers were actually, literally dying off).

I like, and buy those franchises. Personally the issue is for me is that Nintendo are releasing these titles on an awful piece of hardware from a value perspective.
I don't think these people are dying off, I just think Nintendo need to ensure their next console is priced attractively or gains immediate traction with their differentiator for hardware.

 

[cyberheater]

I'm pretty sure sales have peaked in the US and Europe as well. Even with a revision later on the year, if they continue to be down YoY it will be hard to make up the difference.

I agree.

I don't think paying for it is the right approach because then publishers would start expecting that to be the norm. It really depends on what type of platform Nintendo goes for but assuming they wanted to get into the mainstream gaming market they would need to make some that appeals to gamers, create games in the more popular genres to attract fans of said genre and then Nintendo could possibly to give devs some sort of incentive to develop for their platform in case they aren't willing to test the market.

Apart from a financial incentive. I don't know what would make any third party want to chance their arm on another Nintendo platform.

 

[Unknown One]

Honestly, the fact that Mario Kart on Wii sold over 35 million units and that NSMBW, a core Mario game sold 28.65 million units (more than either Wii Fit version, or Wii Play) kinda made me think that they at least had some core exclusive-title growth that would stick around. Obviously, it appears I was mistaken.

It only sold that high because it had the install base. That's due to people buying the Wii for Wii Sports. What else are parents and Grandma going to buy next? Mario is also a household name.

 

[ThoughtsOfSpeaking]

I got to say thats quite impressive. Playstation managed to create 3 new IP's that sell 5 million+ in one generation.

Nintendo should look into this with the WiiU or future generations, unless something like the Wii happens and they hit a goldmine of new IP's.

Wasn't god of war 3 a 5 million seller too?

I thought that was one of the biggest motivations for DMCs reboot.

Edit:-

http://m.neogaf.com/showpost.php?p=38536155

 

[Mandoric]

The fact of the matter is, the ONLY place to see Mario, Link, Samus, Mike Jones, Little Mac, DK, and Olimar is on Nintendo. Are the people who like and buy these literally dying off? Have they really completely failed in attracting any new fans? I am not saying this is the case, but it feels like Star Trek franchise in the late 90s-early 21st century all over again (where the fandom numbers were actually, literally dying off).

I've put in at least triple-digit hours on every Nintendo console but the Wii U, probably quad-digit on each of them but that and the GameCube, and I have no idea who the fuck a quarter of the names on your list are. There was never a huge Nintendo-Nintendo-aaaaaalllll Nintendo all the time fanbase on Nintendo platforms.

 

[StreetsAhead]

Can't they hire translators?

The future of the company hinged on making games, everyone was doing for 6 years. I can't take the claim serious "we seriously have no idea how to make PS3 graphics in 2014".

The world doesn't stop for Nintendo.

They can, but a translator specializing in software documentation translation doesn't come cheap; I can look up numbers if you'd like. Maybe they have some now, or maybe they've done more training (or hired more fresh graduates who might know/push to use newer techniques), I don't know.

As for the latter half of your post, I agree somewhat, but knowing that my neighbor had trouble learning to ride a bike, doesn't mean I'll get it right first time. That being said, I can learn from his mistakes, which they seemingly didn't do, at least not to a large extent, anyway.

 

[Mihael Mello Keehl]

That is the west exaggerating things. Nintendo never had "trouble" with HD development. All that happened is that they underestimated the extra work required. The internet, especially here, has exaggerated that issue.

Look at Pikmin 3, Super Mario 3D World and Mario Kart 8 for example. Evidence that they don't have trouble with HD development.

We all know monolithsoft is keeping their secrets to themselves and wont tell to Nintendo's EAD teams.

 

[Palette Swap]

If ever there was proof that people bought the Wii for Wii Sports and then got other Nintendo games for light entertainment then it is the Wii U. The console has had the same Nintendo games as the Wii and completely failed to follow up the huge sales. It doesn't have Wii Sports though. Wii sports sold the Wii not Mario and other Nintendo titles.

Definitely, Wii Sports materialized the Wii USP in a way super easy to demonstrate and that actually resonated with a large audience. WiiU never managed to do that, either because the relevant use cases weren't very obvious or because people cared less about them.

To an extent, the same thing is true with the DS -> 3DS transition where DS eventually got good showcases of touch + dual screen uses, while Nintendo misread the selling power of 3D and whatever success 3DS eventually found had little to do with it.

 

[AniHawk]

I'm not even on camp "Nintendo go third-party," I was just imagining what Nintendo on PS4 would be like in my dreamiest of dreams

okay right. that's what i meant.

but man why stop at ps4. why not go with pc. we'll all be on the steam train ten years from now anyway.

 

[E-phonk]

Is there any proof the Gamecube was a profitable platform? Nintendo as a whole was profitable during that time because of the help of the GBA.

It had an unusually large attachrate. I don't know for sure if more info is available - nintendo doesn't release profits/costs based per platform.

 

[StreetsAhead]

We all know monolithsoft is keeping their secrets to themselves and wont tell to Nintendo's EAD teams.

Monolith (the newer Kyoto studio) worked on Pikmin 3, and probably will be in the credits on MK8, too.

 

[watershed]

That is the west exaggerating things. Nintendo never had "trouble" with HD development. All that happened is that they underestimated the extra work required. The internet, especially here, has exaggerated that issue.

Look at Pikmin 3, Super Mario 3D World and Mario Kart 8 for example. Evidence that they don't have trouble with HD development.

So long delays to key games resulting in barren months and standstill hardware sales don't indicate that Nintendo had trouble with hd development? By the way, that's something even Iwata has admitted to.

 

[liger05]

Has to be a 3DS revision on the way as no way they hit 12 mil with the current software.

Wii U forecast to me suggests Nintendo have now given up the ghost and are now in a position of riding out the generation the most cost effective way possible. They know nothing is turning this ship around.

 

[Psycho_Mantis]

Wasn't god of war 3 a 5 million seller too?

I thought that was one of the biggest motivations for DMCs reboot.

Oh yeah, another powerhouse IP created recently.

Nintendo look....new IP's can do well, if not better than old ones.

 

[lefantome]

It's not great. And the attach rate is poor. Less then 4 games per unit.
Sales of 3DS are already in decline in JPN and mostly likely will peak in the US and Europe this year. Not exactly stellar.

as far as I recall 3ds sales are down in the US in these first months of the year

 

[E-phonk]

Apart from a financial incentive. I don't know what would make any third party want to chance their arm on another Nintendo platform.

Lending out their IP.

 

[JoeM86]

So long delays to key games resulting in barren months and standstill hardware sales don't indicate that Nintendo had trouble with hd development? By the way, that's something even Iwata has admitted to.

No, you're misunderstanding. I never said that they didn't have issues. What I'm saying is that the issues are being overstated and exaggerated.

What happened, according to Iwata and Miyamoto, is that they underestimated the impact of the change. They adapted to it, but came up a bit short.

What people say, even is this thread, is "Nintendo can't do HD graphics. They have no idea what they're doing"

That is the erroneous part.

 

[AniHawk]

It's not great. And the attach rate is poor. Less then 4 games per unit.

i wouldn't rely on the attach rate as a good example of the 3ds doing crummy. it tends to go up the older systems get. and most handhelds wind up between 4 and 5 for their attach rate anyway.

i would however use raw software sales as a good example of the 3ds doing crummy.

 

[cyberheater]

That is the west exaggerating things. Nintendo never had "trouble" with HD development. All that happened is that they underestimated the extra work required. The internet, especially here, has exaggerated that issue.

Look at Pikmin 3, Super Mario 3D World and Mario Kart 8 for example. Evidence that they don't have trouble with HD development.

Rubbish.

Miyamoto said.

“When it comes to the scale of software development,” he said, “Wii U with HD graphics requires about twice the human resources than before. Please allow me to explain that we may have underestimated the scale of this change and as a result, the overall software development took more time than originally anticipated just as we tried to polish the software at the completion phase of development.

So when you say:-

All that happened is that they underestimated the extra work required

What do you think is the issue? Of course they had issues getting the HD work pipeline in place and getting the tools to integrate properly and developing the 3D game engines. All the stuff that takes time when you've not developed for HD before.

And the fact that they couldn't even plan for that speaks volumes for how mismanaged Nintendo is.

 

[JoeM86]

Rubbish.

Miyamoto said.



So when you say:-



What do you think is the issue? Of course they had issues getting the HD work pipeline in place and getting the tools to integrate properly and developing the 3D game engines. All the stuff that takes time when you've not developed for HD before.

And the fact that they couldn't even plan for that speaks volumes for how mismanaged Nintendo is.

You realise that you just made my point, right?

 

[Mihael Mello Keehl]

Nintendo look....new IP's can do well, if not better than old ones.

Well sony have to actually keep making new ip because of circumstances. Nintendo dont really have to worry about that.

 

[cyberheater]

i would however use raw software sales as a good example of the 3ds doing crummy.

Fair enough. It's still not doing great.

 

[Sandfox]

I agree.



Apart from a financial incentive. I don't know what would make any third party want to chance their arm on another Nintendo platform.

I'm not sure what, but there's probably something they could offer besides outright paying the publishers to give them some kind of financial relief when porting to their console. If the device was actually looking like a good product devs that want their games on as many platforms as possible would probably be interesting in putting at least one entry on the device.

This is all one big hypothetical situation though and for all I know things could play out completely different for better or worse so I'm just curious to see what what Nintendo comes up with now that the company is in a position it has never been in before.

 

[watershed]

No, you're misunderstanding. I never said that they didn't have issues. What I'm saying is that the issues are being overstated and exaggerated.

What happened, according to Iwata and Miyamoto, is that they underestimated the impact of the change. They adapted to it, but came up a bit short.

What people say, even is this thread, is "Nintendo can't do HD graphics. They have no idea what they're doing"

That is the erroneous part.

For the purposes of a thread talking about sales and business, the significance of Nintendo's acknowledged difficulties with hd development was/is longer development times which has lead to software droughts, lost consumer interest, and abysmal hardware sales. These are the important points.

 

[Zeyphersan]

Try as hard as I might I can't find the charts Sony releases to show how much each of their consoles sell each quarter... I know I've seen it posted on GAF before

 

[cyberheater]

You realise that you just made my point, right?

No. You are clearly wrong. You are saying they didn't have a problem developing for HD when clearly they did because it lead to huge delays which had a huge financial impact to the company. The fact that the final software is in HD does not negate the severe problems they had in developing it.

 

[E-phonk]

I'm not sure what, but there's probably something they could offer besides outright paying the publishers to give them some kind of financial relief when porting to their console.

My suggestion has always been for nintendo to open their own western port studio, and offset the costs (=risk) for publishers on certain games they (nintendo) deem profitable themselves on their own platform.

 

[MauroNL]

These numbers are really depressing to look at, especially the Wii U ones.

 

[JoeM86]

No. You are clearly wrong. You are saying they didn't have a problem developing for HD when clearly they did because it lead to huge delays which had a huge financial impact to the company. The fact that the final software is in HD does not negate the severe problems they had in developing it.

Good god, that is not what I said at all. I never said they didn't have a problem. I said that the problem was exaggerated by people here.

 

[HUELEN10]

My suggestion has always been for nintendo to open their own western port studio, and offset the costs for publishers on certain games they (nintendo) deem profitable themselves on their own platform.

Which is exactly why NST needs a boost, and Nintendo needs to buy Next level games and re-name it Nintendo Vancouver Studios.

 

[E-phonk]

I wouldn't want next level to become a port studio though.

 

[Psycho_Mantis]

Well sony hace to actually keep making new ip because of circumstances. Nintendo dont really have to worry about that.

The point is new IP's can do really well as Playstation has shown. 4 5+ million franchises in the space of 8 years. This is something Nintendo should look into; instead they reiterate the same franchises that might not sell well. I'm not talking about your sure fire successes like MK, Smash, Mario 3d etc. Stuff like DK which flopped iirc or Wii Fit U.

 

[AniHawk]

Oh yeah, another powerhouse IP created recently.

Nintendo look....new IP's can do well, if not better than old ones.

are you arguing that nintendo hasn't created ips since 2005, or that they haven't created successful ips since 2005.

 

[test_account]

What? Considering the 3DS consistently sells more than the Vita in Japan, and the Vita is literally dead everywhere else, that is not physically possible.

Its fully possible. If they shipped a lot more previously and the sales are lower than they expected, it would take a longer time to sell through that shipment, and the next shipment would be smaller. I dont know if that is the case with the 3DS and Vita in specific though, but it is possible for one item to sell more and have a lower shipment compared to another item that sells less and has a higher shipment.

 

[HUELEN10]

I wouldn't want next level to become a port studio though.

I guess I misunderstood what you meant by port studio.

 

[Psycho_Mantis]

are you arguing that nintendo hasn't created ips since 2005, or that they haven't created successful ips since 2005.

Well if you read my previous posts:

Nintendo should look into this with the WiiU or future generations, unless something like the Wii happens and they hit a goldmine of new IP's.

The chances of the Wii happening again are very slim.

 

[AniHawk]

Try as hard as I might I can't find the charts Sony releases to show how much each of their consoles sell each quarter... I know I've seen it posted on GAF before

look for parmenides threads. unfortunately they have had a history of reporting results differently so what we have to go off of kind of sucks.

 

[mclem]

The fact of the matter is, the ONLY place to see Mario, Link, Samus, Mike Jones, Little Mac, DK, and Olimar is on Nintendo.

Mike Jones? Really?

 

[zomgbbqftw]

Has to be a 3DS revision on the way as no way they hit 12 mil with the current software.

Or, more likely given their recent form, they will miss their forecast. I don't see Nintendo hitting 12m when they barely made it this year with a much stronger software line up.

 

[shinra-bansho]

Has to be a 3DS revision on the way as no way they hit 12 mil with the current software.

Wii U forecast to me suggests Nintendo have now given up the ghost and are now in a position of riding out the generation the most cost effective way possible. They know nothing is turning this ship around.

They already released a 3DS revision last year though - the budget 2DS SKU - to muted impact. jvm posted an article a while back that outlined how each successive iteration was less impactful.

From the same article:

It's relatively clear that what's happening to handhelds is more fundamental rather than cyclical.

 

[KillerMan91]

0.59m shipped for 3DS during last quarter. Yikes. No way in hell they will hit 12 million this fiscal year as they didn't manage that even during last fiscal year. Also going by that 21 million software number for PS4 Sony released it probably already sold more software last quarter than 3DS...

 

[AniHawk]

Well if you read my previous posts:

oh okay. so when nintendo does it, it's luck, but when sony does it, it's elbow grease and gumption!

i guess it's my fault. i never believed in magic.

 

[Mitchture420]

Well, damn.

 

[Canis lupus]

For such huge changes, it takes quite some time to see their effects on the market. Especially considering how we're talking about something they're aiming for their next hardware line, and not the current one.

...But if you think forward-thinking as embracing social media and sharing...err, what about the fact they use their Facebook/Twitter/Instagram/whatever pages costantly? Or how they're heavily improving with Nintendo Directs since the beginning of last month, making them more crazy/funny/entertaining to watch while being informative? What about their E3 plans, too?

And if you think forward-thinking as pricing policies, check out all the news about games getting price cuts on eShop and at retail, bonuses for those who buy games on eShop, Mario Golf and its season pack while being priced much lower than other 3DS titles, etc.etc. It all happened since the beginning of April, and it involved also titles not even one year old (like Animal Crossing, DKCR3D and W101), so it's not just Nintendo "being slow to adapt since they're only now changing prices", but it seems more like an overall policy change.

Nintendo to me is completely invisible on social media, they don't have any high profile people on twitter engaging with their customers like Adam Boyes, Shahid, Shu and Phil Spencer, does Nintendo have a place like the PS Blog? They're not even active on platforms where the fans ask for region free gaming, a heavily controlled and moderated place like Miiverse is no substitute.

Hell, even the way Nintendo announced the Wii U shows a lack of adaptability. They've revealed the console 18 months before launch in E3 2011, it was too early and it was an awful conference with a bunch of make believes.

Nintendo just isn't transparent enough, the power and decision making is still centralized in Kyoto between Iwata, Miyamoto and the others. Iwata shows his mug in every Direct, in every Iwata Asks, you'd almost wonder if he's running the entire company by himself and what people like Reggie and Bill Trinen are doing there. They need to liquefy some of the power to others, and involve the US and EU folk in the decision making, 1st and 3rd parties.

 

[BGBW]

Well hey, now that they've cracked the HD transition they'll be ready for their next system right?

 

[Manmademan]

are you arguing that nintendo hasn't created ips since 2005, or that they haven't created successful ips since 2005.

Nintendo is creating new IPs, but there are very few given the same budget and marketing push as their flagship mascot titles.

Sony on the other hand does this constantly with new IP, even for stuff with questionable mainstream appeal like Heavy Rain.

 

[Blood Diamonds]

Random question: How did DKC Tropical Freeze sell?

 

[E-phonk]

I guess I misunderstood what you meant by port studio.

I literally meant a studio specialised in porting to their own platform - where they share part of the risks (but also part of the profits if the port sells well).

 

[Mitchture420]

Calling it Wii 2 was too hard.

 

[Zeyphersan]

Calling it Wii 2 was too hard.

The Wii U's problems run FAR deeper than its name