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[zomgbbqftw]

Right, end of Q2, with the full effects seen in Q3.

Sony forecast 15m PS3s last year, but only sold just over 14m. It wasn't a big deal then, and it won't be if they miss their forecast by 1m this year.

14.5m x $50 = $725m (well over $1B taking into account next FY), just to crow that they beat their forecast by 1m. Last FY is forgotten, they don't have to "make up" for it.

It really isn't a tough choice, Sony don't want to be selling PS3 for a loss at this stage in it's life. The past has shown that they've repeatedly missed PS3 forecasts, and they'll choose to do so again rather than massively increasing losses.

The last year was the first time since launch that Sony missed their stated target and by 700k.

It's not as simple as you make out. 14m at $249 is around $3.45bn in revenues, 16m at $199 is $3.18bn in revenue so the decrease isn't so much, but the added increase in software sales (up to a 20% increase with so many additional new owners) will give a profit boost that will balance out the extra revenue losses.

The extra $50 cut will also give Sony a lot of forwards momentum for Vita and PS4, almost like a halo effect that Apple had with the iPod. Look at Nintendo's fortunes, they had a huge success with the Wii, but because they waited a year too long to announce and release a successor they are losing the plot completely. 3DS sales have been well under expectations, so much so that they cut the price by a massive amount just months after launching and lowered profit projections by 82%.

Anyway, I suppose we'll see what happens in a few weeks or at TGS...

 

[Infinite Justice]

The last year was the first time since launch that Sony missed their stated target and by 700k.

It's not as simple as you make out. 14m at $249 is around $3.45bn in profits, 16m at $199 is $3.18bn in revenue so the decrease isn't so much, but the added increase in software sales (up to a 20% increase with so many additional new owners) will give a profit boost that will balance out the extra revenue losses.

The extra $50 cut will also give Sony a lot of forwards momentum for Vita and PS4, almost like a halo effect that Apple had with the iPod. Look at Nintendo's fortunes, they had a huge success with the Wii, but because they waited a year too long to announce and release a successor they are losing the plot completely. 3DS sales have been well under expectations, so much so that they cut the price by a massive amount just months after launching and lowered profit projections by 82%.

Anyway, I suppose we'll see what happens in a few weeks or at TGS...

I think Gamescom will be the best bet since we have seen that stuff before at the event.

 

[Lesiroth]

I'm having a hard time believing the PSP outsold all other consoles.

 

[zomgbbqftw]

I'm having a hard time believing the PSP outsold all other consoles.

Yeah, who would have thought it?

I think Vita has boosted PSP sales because they know any game they buy on PSN will be playable on Vita and it's not very expensive either.

 

[BKK]

The last year was the first time since launch that Sony missed their stated target and by 700k.

It's not as simple as you make out. 14m at $249 is around $3.45bn in revenues, 16m at $199 is $3.18bn in revenue so the decrease isn't so much, but the added increase in software sales (up to a 20% increase with so many additional new owners) will give a profit boost that will balance out the extra revenue losses.

It's not about revenue though, it's about profit/loss. Those extra 2m PS3s don't grow on trees, with the revenue comparison you give Sony would be giving away $270m plus 2m PS3s .

Yes, some of it would be recovered by increased software sales, but they would also be giving up the first $50 of any software profits not just from the 2m extra PS3 owners, but also the 14m who would have bought a PS3 for $50 more anyway.

For simplicities sake lets say the average PS3 owner buys 10 games, and Sony makes $10 from the license fee for each game sold, Sony would break even at $250, but incur a loss of $50 at $200. These aren't actual figures, just used for illustration.

14m PS3 @ 0$ loss + 10 x $10 = $1.4B profit
16m PS3 @ $50 loss + 10 x $10 = $0.8B profit.

 

[zomgbbqftw]

It's not about revenue though, it's about profit/loss. Those extra 2m PS3s don't grow on trees, with the revenue comparison you give Sony would be giving away $270m plus 2m PS3s .

Yes, some of it would be recovered by increased software sales, but they would also be giving up the first $50 of any software profits not just from the 2m extra PS3 owners, but also the 14m who would have bought a PS3 for $50 more anyway.

For simplicities sake lets say the average PS3 owner buys 10 games, and Sony makes $10 from the license fee for each game sold, Sony would break even at $250, but incur a loss of $50 at $200. These aren't actual figures, just used for illustration.

14m PS3 @ 0$ loss + 10 x $10 = $1.4B profit
16m PS3 @ $50 loss + 10 x $10 = $0.8B profit.

It's about momentum though, the 16m figure would give Sony more momentum going forwards, and for PS4/Vita. Momentum is something you can't really measure, it turned Apple around with iPod and Nintendo with Wii, but the loss of momentum has lead to years of stagnation at Sony with PS3.

I think Sony will go with the more aggressive strategy because they have stated they expect a large reduction in operating margin at NPS (which is ironically defunct now), and since Vita is going to be sold for a profit/break even WW (that's the latest from SCE) it means a loss for PS3 which means $199.

 

[spwolf]

This is all true ... though I would say they've been moving in the right direction.

Part of the issue is the economy. Many of their product lines are relatively low margin and in the entertainment field (non-essential splurge items). Most companies not named Apple have seen sluggish sales in many of their lines.

i would think a lot of is due to the quake that devastated parts of japan

 

[AgentChris]

Sony Pictures came through for Sony, about time. Too bad about the Tsunami/Earthquake.

 

[Nealand Liquor]

How long can Sony keep taking these loses?
Hasn't this been going on for a fair number of years already?

 

[Elios83]

It's about momentum though, the 16m figure would give Sony more momentum going forwards, and for PS4/Vita. Momentum is something you can't really measure, it turned Apple around with iPod and Nintendo with Wii, but the loss of momentum has lead to years of stagnation at Sony with PS3.

I think Sony will go with the more aggressive strategy because they have stated they expect a large reduction in operating margin at NPS (which is ironically defunct now), and since Vita is going to be sold for a profit/break even WW (that's the latest from SCE) it means a loss for PS3 which means $199.

Gamescom is around the corner (less than a month to go). But as I said earlier in the thread imo you're wrong in expecting 199$ this year.
I've always believed in the importance of the 199$ price point for the PS3 and I thought it would happen this year too.
But clearly it won't. Their forecast is absolutely perfect, spot on for the 249$ entry price, the new price with bundles and more games will definetly provide the boost they need to reach 15m which is not that much, they sold 14.3m in the second year at 299$.
If they targeted a 199$ price they would expect much bigger numbers, like 17m or even 18m.

 

[jett]

The PSP sold more than the 360 in the last quarter? Wat

 

[AgentChris]

The PSP sold more than the 360 in the last quarter? Wat

Japan loves PSP.

 

[Majine]

How long can Sony keep taking these loses?
Hasn't this been going on for a fair number of years already?

Last year they posted a profit of 25 billion yen.

It's still good, but I think a PS3 pricecut is in order.

 

[sixteen-bit]

The PSP sold more than the 360 in the last quarter? Wat

Really puts things into perspective

 

[Takao]

This year PS3 will finally eclipse PSP.

The PSP sold more than the 360 in the last quarter? Wat

PSP:
I was a made to never hit in America.

360:
I was a made to never hit outside of America.

 

[Saiyar]

The PSP sold more than the 360 in the last quarter? Wat

Not only that, it was also the best selling console last quarter.

 

[jett]

Not only that, it was also the best selling console last quarter.

That is quite honestly a surreal notion.

 

[Mr. B Natural]

360:
I was a made to never hit outside of America.

Except the 360 had better Jrpg support and niche japan game support than the ps3 and arguably still does.
It's Sony's fault why the psp is only big in japan.
It's not Microsoft's fault the 360 didn't hit big in japan (and btw, is doing great in europe).
"The game" isn't fair in japan. The game is perfectly fair in europe and the US, which is why all three (actually 4) console makers were #1 or #2 big and still could be big in those sectors with a little bit of effort.
Effort goes a long way in the US and Europe. Japan don't give a shit. All gamers are overly nostalgic about their past and Japan takes that (with a heavy dash of nationalism) to the nth degree. The 360 represents new libraries to Japan. 360 released new libraries. Put tons of effort into it. Yet, it's not gonna sell regardless of effort because Sony and Nintendo hold the nostalgia keys.

But to say the 360 was never made to hit outside of america is, i hope, a joke.

 

[Infamous Chris]

Except the 360 had better Jrpg support and niche japan game support than the ps3 and arguably still does.
It's Sony's fault why the psp is only big in japan.
It's not Microsoft's fault the 360 didn't hit big in japan (and btw, is doing great in europe).
"The game" isn't fair in japan. The game is perfectly fair in europe and the US, which is why all three (actually 4) console makers were #1 or #2 big and still could be big in those sectors with a little bit of effort.
Effort goes a long way in the US and Europe. Japan don't give a shit. All gamers are overly nostalgic about their past and Japan takes that (with a heavy dash of nationalism) to the nth degree.

No wonder JRPGs are dying.

 

[Psychotext]

Not this again. Microsoft dumped the xbox unceremoniously in Japan last gen... people have long memories.

Apple, Coke etc... god, it's been done to death.

 

[Mr. B Natural]

No wonder JRPGs are dying.

It's actually the only reason they're still alive.

 

[Averon]

Except the 360 had better Jrpg support and niche japan game support than the ps3 and arguably still does.
It's Sony's fault why the psp is only big in japan.
It's not Microsoft's fault the 360 didn't hit big in japan (and btw, is doing great in europe).
"The game" isn't fair in japan. The game is perfectly fair in europe and the US, which is why all three (actually 4) console makers were #1 or #2 big and still could be big in those sectors with a little bit of effort.
Effort goes a long way in the US and Europe. Japan don't give a shit. All gamers are overly nostalgic about their past and Japan takes that (with a heavy dash of nationalism) to the nth degree. The 360 represents new libraries to Japan. 360 released new libraries. Put tons of effort into it. Yet, it's not gonna sell regardless of effort because Sony and Nintendo hold the nostalgia keys.

But to say the 360 was never made to hit outside of america is, i hope, a joke.

I don't agree with that at all. It's the platform holders responsibility to make their platform desirable to the public. If they can't do that then they failed.

 

[Mr. B Natural]

I don't agree with that at all. It's the platform holders responsibility to make their platform desirable to the public. If they can't do that then they failed.

Did you read the rest of my post? Cause I explained WHY the 360 CAN'T be big in Japan. They don't hold the cards. The cards are already dealt.

And I'm responded to someone that said that the 360 was "made only to be sold in America" which is false if you recall the initial efforts Microsoft made. The 360 was made to sell everywhere. They tried to sell it everywhere, but that doesn't mean it was successful. Being successful has nothing to do with it.

 

[OldJadedGamer]

The last year was the first time since launch that Sony missed their stated target and by 700k.

Sony missed their yearly estimates for the first three years of the systems life actually. The first year, I believe they missed it by a few million.

 

[ScionOfTheRisingSun]

With PSP doing so well in Japan I still think it is a mistake for SONY to push out its successor in that market right now.

With such a high sale price and higher price of game development it is definitely not suited to the current climate in the Japanese market. Same thing with the PS3, really. To make matters worse I have high doubts about SONY being able to make a luxury portable work in the overseas market this time around when the PSP basically failed to do so, and back then the only competition came from Nintendo, not so today.

In short in order to gain the western market with very dubious prospects for success they are going to prematurely kill their golden goose and most alive and kicking platform in their struggling home market. Japan needs a popular easy to obtain and easy to develop for platform in their domestic market. Japan already lost the lowest bar of entry when Nintendo made the DS defunct.

I have a deadly premonition about how all of this is going to play out.

Except the 360 had better Jrpg support and niche japan game support than the ps3 and arguably still does.
It's Sony's fault why the psp is only big in japan.
It's not Microsoft's fault the 360 didn't hit big in japan (and btw, is doing great in europe).
"The game" isn't fair in japan. The game is perfectly fair in europe and the US, which is why all three (actually 4) console makers were #1 or #2 big and still could be big in those sectors with a little bit of effort.
Effort goes a long way in the US and Europe. Japan don't give a shit. All gamers are overly nostalgic about their past and Japan takes that (with a heavy dash of nationalism) to the nth degree. The 360 represents new libraries to Japan. 360 released new libraries. Put tons of effort into it. Yet, it's not gonna sell regardless of effort because Sony and Nintendo hold the nostalgia keys.

But to say the 360 was never made to hit outside of america is, i hope, a joke.

Oh, the overseas gamers have plenty of that going around as well. Especially now where the sheitgeist has it that the overseas shit does not stink. So if you do not like the smell then your taste in games are invalid because you a weaboo in denial who actively avoids the clearly superior local odours out of spite, and oh, deuce, how dare you do so.

 

[Takao]

Not only that, it was also the best selling console last quarter.

DS don't exist, because surely...

 

[madmaxx350]

With PSP doing so well in Japan I still think it is a mistake for SONY to push out its successor in that market right now.

With such a high sale price and higher price of game development it is definitely not suited to the current climate in the Japanese market. Same thing with the PS3, really. To make matters worse I have high doubts about SONY being able to make a luxury portable work in the overseas market this time around when the PSP basically failed to do so, and back then the only competition came from Nintendo, not so today.

In short in order to gain the western market with very dubious prospects for success they are going to prematurely kill their golden goose and most alive and kicking platform in their struggling home market. Japan needs a popular easy to obtain and easy to develop for platform in their domestic market. Japan already lost the lowest bar of entry when Nintendo made the DS defunct.

I have a deadly premonition about how all of this is going to play out.

not really isn't the DS still selling well even with the 3DS being out? I mean I don't mind it if they hold off releasing the thing in Japan and give me a '11 launch though

 

[Psychotext]

DS don't exist, because surely...

1.44m...

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=438811

 

[Karma]

Last year they posted a profit of 25 billion yen.

It's still good, but I think a PS3 pricecut is in order.

Last 12 months.

Income -3.33 Billion
Income Growth -536.20%

 

[Takao]

Except the 360 had better Jrpg support and niche japan game support than the ps3 and arguably still does.
It's Sony's fault why the psp is only big in japan.
It's not Microsoft's fault the 360 didn't hit big in japan (and btw, is doing great in europe).
"The game" isn't fair in japan. The game is perfectly fair in europe and the US, which is why all three (actually 4) console makers were #1 or #2 big and still could be big in those sectors with a little bit of effort.
Effort goes a long way in the US and Europe. Japan don't give a shit. All gamers are overly nostalgic about their past and Japan takes that (with a heavy dash of nationalism) to the nth degree. The 360 represents new libraries to Japan. 360 released new libraries. Put tons of effort into it. Yet, it's not gonna sell regardless of effort because Sony and Nintendo hold the nostalgia keys.

But to say the 360 was never made to hit outside of america is, i hope, a joke.

Oh, it's not a joke at all. Microsoft only targets its major software at the US, and to a very slight degree European audience by basing their software strategy on mimicking the PC space (a platform that no one in Japan supports, or likes). They dumped the Xbox in Japan with no software that could hope to be relate-able to them, and it showed as the system had various Media Create sales of 0 units, meaning 0 sold in a week in an entire country. People have memories, and its predecessor made it so that the 360 could never be a hit in Japan, and was always going to be limited in Europe because like Japan, Microsoft only started caring about them this generation.

1.44m...

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=438811

HOLY SHIT

Too bad that's almost all from Japan.

 

[Elios83]

Sony missed their yearly estimates for the first three years of the systems life actually. The first year, I believe they missed it by a few million.

2006: 3.5m versus 6m (although the 6m figure was not achievable for manufacturing issues alone even if there was demand)
2007: 9.1m versus 11m later revised to 10m
2008: 10.1m versus 10m (exceeded the forecast)
2009: 13m versus 13m (spot on)
2010: 14.3m versus 15m (slightly missed)

I'd say that they are quite accurate with their forecasts although initially things didn't go as they expected and that was reflected.

 

[HomerSimpson-Man]

PSP best selling system, whut?

 

[-Pyromaniac-]

Sony needs to step it up with their TVs. They have very few budget models. Gone are the days when Sony could easily sell at a premium because they are Sony. Only apple gets away with that these days. Innovation and better value would serve them well. At least theyredojng gaming right these days.

 

[ScionOfTheRisingSun]

not really isn't the DS still selling well even with the 3DS being out? I mean I don't mind it if they hold off releasing the thing in Japan and give me a '11 launch though

Wither the DS is selling well or not is sort of irrelevant because Nintendo has left that platform behind. This makes it a defunct platform which will follow a natural decline in sales of core games. It will then be put to be milked with various cheap shovelware produced by bottom tier third parties until it has whimper into the aether.

Handhelds and home consoles do not remain relevant to the good developers once a successor hits. At that time everyone will move onto the new platform wither they want to or not.

Nintendo really has a terrible trackrecord with defunct platform longevity. I mean, just look at the Wii, the successor is a year away and the platform is already all but dead.

 

[Elios83]

PSP best selling system, whut?

It's in the OP:
PS3 1.8 m
PSP 1.8 m
360 1.7 m
Wii 1.56 m
DS 1.44 m
PS2 1.4 m
3DS 0.71 m

Sony needs to step it up with their TVs. They have very few budget models. Gone are the days when Sony could easily sell at a premium because they are Sony. Only apple gets away with that these days. Innovation and better value would serve them well. At least theyredojng gaming right these days.

Analysts and financial experts are suggesting Sony to consider leaving the TV business, they have not been profitable with it for 6-7 years and there's no sign they can achieve profitability with it anytime soon. They just can't compete with koreans.

 

[Phoenician_Viking]

How much is the BOM for the PS3? If it is less than 200 than Sony will lower the price. If it´s not, no one should think that they will lower the price. I don´t think they want to lose more money on the hardware especially after they became profitable last year.

BTW does anyone here knows if the PSP was profitable for Sony LTD? I mean total. R&D, manufacturing and initial loss? Is there any info on that?

 

[soundscream]

Oh, it's not a joke at all. Microsoft only targets its major software at the US, and to a very slight degree European audience by basing their software strategy on mimicking the PC space (a platform that no one in Japan supports, or likes). They dumped the Xbox in Japan with no software that could hope to be relate-able to them, and it showed as the system had various Media Create sales of 0 units, meaning 0 sold in a week in an entire country. People have memories, and its predecessor made it so that the 360 could never be a hit in Japan, and was always going to be limited in Europe because like Japan, Microsoft only started caring about them this generation.
(

Why do people keep saying that?
I bought a Sega CD it didn't stop me from buying a Saturn and a Dreamcast.
The original xbox was never going to be a success in Japan, but the 360 went out of its way to try to cater to the Japanese audience.

 

[Hiro_Kunimi_80]

PSP best selling system, whut?

best "shipped" psp is approaching the end of it's life as "only mobile console" soon the production will be lowered i don't think Sony will keep alive the format as they did for ps2

 

[Takao]

Why do people keep saying that?
I bought a Sega CD it didn't stop me from buying a Saturn and a Dreamcast.
The original xbox was never going to be a success in Japan, but the 360 went out of its way to try to cater to the Japanese audience.

You don't think SEGA killing off support for the Saturn so soon didn't hurt the Dreamcast? I'd say it did. Not only with publishers, but with consumers.

 

[zomgbbqftw]

Analysts and financial experts are suggesting Sony to consider leaving the TV business, they have not been profitable with it for 6-7 years and there's no sign they can achieve profitability with it anytime soon. They just can't compete with koreans.

They will be able to compete once they dissolve S-LCD and funnel their innovations into exclusive manufacturing rather than Samsung benefiting out of their hard work.

Sony have already started on this path with their new top end model, HX92x, and will trickle this down over the coming years until they are able to compete on price and differentiate themselves in terms of quality.

 

[Psychotext]

Sony have already started on this path with their new top end model, HX92x, and will trickle this down over the coming years until they are able to compete on price and differentiate themselves in terms of quality.

Remember the KURO?

 

[Elios83]

best "shipped" psp is approaching the end of it's life as "only mobile console" soon the production will be lowered i don't think Sony will keep alive the format as they did for ps2

No reason to kill it until it's so healthy in Japan and they still have to reach the 99$ price.
PS2 has been selling really poorly for the last couple of years and they still manufacture it.
I think that PSP will be manufactured at least until 2014, thus completing its ten years life cycle XD

 

[zomgbbqftw]

Remember the KURO?

Yeah. D:

Always wish I'd had the money to buy one when they were available...

 

[soundscream]

You don't think SEGA killing off support for the Saturn so soon didn't hurt the Dreamcast? I'd say it did. Not only with publishers, but with consumers.

Saturn was crap as well, not Sega cd or 32x level but compared to the PS1 it was out classed. And the Dreamcast was a fuck up of epic proportions by Sega, as to how they handled that systems launch. So the PS2 was able to ride in on the success of the PS1.

 

[Special J]

they keep moving the division "playstation" is considered to be part of maybe to hide or deceive investors.

used to be cps, then ips now ips is gone and everything is under cps.

Saturn was crap as well, not Sega cd or 32x level but compared to the PS1 it was out classed. And the Dreamcast was a fuck up of epic proportions by Sega, as to how they handled that systems launch. So the PS2 was able to ride in on the success of the PS1.

wow what an ignorant fanboy comment

 

[OldJadedGamer]

2006: 3.5m versus 6m (although the 6m figure was not achievable for manufacturing issues alone even if there was demand)
2007: 9.1m versus 11m later revised to 10m
2008: 10.1m versus 10m (exceeded the forecast)
2009: 13m versus 13m (spot on)
2010: 14.3m versus 15m (slightly missed)

I'd say that they are quite accurate with their forecasts although initially things didn't go as they expected and that was reflected.

I wouldn't call 40% "quite accurate". They have planned 15 million for last year at $299 and planned 15 million this year. So for a price drop to happen, they have to expect a sales dip for this year and a price drop to bring them back to previous numbers.

I think a $100 drop will put them past the 15 million which makes me think it will only be $50.

 

[Xdrive05]

Are PS2 games still being printed and/or developed?

 

[Mad_Ban]

Any interesting news from the Q&A session?

 

[Takao]

Are PS2 games still being printed and/or developed?

There are some PS2 games being developed in India, most are just sports games that only require the most basic roster updates of development.

 

[WrikaWrek]

PSP:
I was a made to never hit in America.

360:
I was a made to never hit outside of America.

Come on man, 360 is good in Europe. Only market that really doesn't give the 360 any credit is Japan.

For whatever cultural reasons, regarding the games it has or not, etc. What is amazing, is how Japan absolutely embraces the PSP...