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PoliGAF 2012 Community Thread

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Romney is the worst major party nominee since... god, Mondale? I don't know. The only reason he's still in this is because the economy still sucks (but not as much!), and if it keeps getting better, his ass is grass, man.

Obama's still on shaky ground so I totally understand someone being down on his chances of re-election, but that has nothing to do with Romney. A sack of potatoes would look better in a debate against Obama than Mr. "I don't care about poor people" "I bet you 10,000 dollars" "I like firing people" "Corporations are people, my friend" "Who let the dogs out?" and is probably more relatable too.

Romney has no appeal to moderates since Gingrich raked him across the coals on Bain. There are a lot of things that can change between now and November, but Romney would have to gain superhuman strength and single-handedly prevent an asteroid collision with Earth to turn his favorables around.

And if nothing else - Kerry states+IA,CO,NM,NV. Obama's path to victory is pretty easy, all things considered.

Diablos said:
Either way you can kiss the Senate goodbye. We're talking about four seats here. And the Senate map this year favors the GOP more than Democrats by default.
Democrats only really have six vulnerable seats - NE, ND, MT, MO, VA, WI. (Anyone who says NM or HI are up for grabs is full of shit)

NE - probably gone, Kerrey or no.

ND - I think Heitkamp's going to do really well here. She's been out of the political game long enough that she doesn't really have ties with Obama, but not too long that she's unknown to ND voters. Berg on the other hand doesn't have much going for him.

MT - This one is probably the next to go after NE, but Tester does have a lot of good will in the state. I could see him winning by the skin of his teeth.

MO - It really depends on if Obama is competitive here again (PPP had him tied with Romney 45-45). He doesn't even need to win the state, since McCaskill will get more outstate/rural support than he will. He could lose with 48% of the vote and it'd still probably get McCaskill over the hump. Jay Nixon is on the ballot too so there's that.

VA - Not sweating over it. Kaine's a solid fundraiser, beloved in the state for his tenure as governor, Obama's doing really well in polling here, etc. The fundamentals here are just great for Democrats.

WI - I get the idea that Wisconsin is sick of Republicans. Call it a hunch, I dunno. Obama's probably a safe bet here, and Baldwin is a strong candidate. I don't think her sexuality is going to have as much of an impact as everyone thinks - I'd imagine most of those people would vote for the GOP anyway, so who cares?

Then there's also MA and NV, where I'd consider the Dems favorites in those races. AZ is also on the table if Obama remains competitive there and Carmona blossoms.

If things go well for Democrats/Obama, a 55-seat majority isn't impossible. Granted, that's probably the best case scenario (save a tea party implosion in Indiana and Maine), but I'm actually more confident about Democrats retaining the Senate than regaining the House. For how much Democrats ran the table in 2006, the set of states being defended isn't too bad. It's not like 2010 where ND, IN, and AR were off the table almost immediately.

For the House, I'm guessing the generic ballot would pretty closely match the margin between Obama and Romney. If the election were held today, Democrats would probably gain about a dozen seats or so, which is obviously short. I just think things will get much better for Ds between now and then.
 

Oblivion

Fetishing muscular manly men in skintight hosery
Jay Leno said:
“This is real; Newt Gingrich is being sued by the guy who wrote the song, ‘Eye of the Tiger.’ He's using it in his campaign. Gingrich says he wants the song because he's a big fan of Rocky. He loves Rocky. Did he see the movie? Didn't Rocky lose to the black guy? Hello. Isn't that what happened? Am I wrong?”

Fun fact: Jay Leno used this exact same joke during the Democratic primary.
 

Puddles

Banned
Eye of the Tiger is from Rocky III. Rocky wins at the end of that one, but he does lose the first match to Clubber Lang.
 

Tim-E

Member
I can't help but laugh every single time someone questions whether or not Obama is going to win Michigan. lol Absolutely no chance in hell of him losing that.
 
Why does Ohio have such a large population, I thought the state sucked? Could it be true that once you enter... you're stuck forever? But seriously, I couldn't name one city from the state and only after looking up did I recognize Columbus. Non-USA here of course, but still, this is supposedly THE state to watch every single election.

Cleveland has it's issues but it's still great. I live in Kucinich's district. It's really Liberal, and a fun place to live.

The bad part of the state is the south. Yikes.
 
Democrats tend to suck a messaging. Not that I blame them as much as others, as the American electorate is completely absent-minded most of the time. But yeah, you can count on a lot of Democrats missing their opportunity to underscore why the GOP doesn't deserve the White House.


They don't suck at framing as much as they used to. But there is a reason that the GOP is so much better at it.

You can get a room full of Democrats together to figure out a solution to a problem, and each one thinks they have the best idea. A room full of Republicans start with framing the issue. Defining the terms and language used in the national discourse, - tax 'relief' instead of tax cut, 'entitlements' instead of earned benefits, etc. They know the key is to control the national discourse. If you go after the low information voter with a strong, unified message with loaded terms- and have Democrats play into your messaging using your terms and words- you can get those voters to vote against their self interests, and that is the success story of the Republican party of the last few decades.
 

Oblivion

Fetishing muscular manly men in skintight hosery
Mittens had better get to work firing people to offset some of these gains. And FAST.


The GOP took control of the house just in time. Thank you voters

The economy's still fragile, so we gotta kill medicare while there's still time!
 
I would've never guessed you're an MMT guy.

Well, all MMT itself does is describe the monetary system (for those countries that control their own money). But understanding that system opens up a world of possibilities--across the entire political spectrum--that are foreclosed when it is pretended that the government are revenue constrained.

Looks like austerity is working. Let's see Krugman spin this.

The US is not an example of a fiscal contraction expansion
 
Looks like austerity is working. Let's see Krugman spin this.

How is austerity being shown to work, and what will Krugman have to spin? His argument is that austerity is contractionary and has been slowing the recovery which could be happening more quickly, not that the economy cannot grow at all under the current regime.
 
The Most important chart of this election year

nschart2.jpg


http://fivethirtyeight.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/02/03/obamas-magic-number-150000-jobs-per-month/

Nate Silver: Obama needs 150K jobs per month from January to October to ensure victory
 

Amir0x

Banned
Jobs report coming in at 243,000!

http://www.businessinsider.com/the-january-jobs-report-2012-2

I had a feeling today would bring good news.

Edit: Unemployment rate has fallen to 8.3%

jesus that's way better than expected. Spectacular.


At this point I guess if the Eurozone doesn't collapse completely and the rate keeps dropping at a consistent 0.1% or 0.2% every month, Obama will get re-elected. Because it seems the only counter the Republicans have to this is "well Obama's policies have made the recovery excruciatingly slow", but in reality 3 years for one of the worst economic downturns in modern times is preeeetty fast.
 
jesus that's way better than expected. Spectacular.


At this point I guess if the Eurozone doesn't collapse completely and the rate keeps dropping at a consistent 0.1% or 0.2% every month, Obama will get re-elected. Because it seems the only counter the Republicans have to this is "well Obama's policies have made the recovery excruciatingly slow", but in reality 3 years for one of the worst economic downturns in modern times is preeeetty fast.

Voters will never want to break a downward trajectory trend even if its slow. if unemployment rate is consistently going down by November 2nd, Obama will win
 

Amir0x

Banned
Good for everyone who isn't named Mitt Romney.

The best thing about the Mitt Romney candidacy is that he made this massive flub, and it's basically the best ready for tv ads gaffe ever. He basically confirms the recovery and that Obama's policies have helped the economy improve.

Jason's Ultimatum said:
I wonder what's precipitating the job growth? Is it the payroll tax cut?

Why would that have spurred job growth? One, we just kept it in place. Two, the payroll tax cut just helps people who are actually working. You have to find a job to get that benefit. Employers didn't go "thank god the payroll tax cut won't evaporate, now we can hire!"
 
Why would that have spurred job growth? One, we just kept it in place. Two, the payroll tax cut just helps people who are actually working. You have to find a job to get that benefit. Employers didn't go "thank god the payroll tax cut won't evaporate, now we can hire!"

More money for people to spend creates higher demand and then businesses hiring to meet demands.

It's called the mutliplier effect.
 

Amir0x

Banned
More money for people to spend creates higher demand and then businesses hiring to meet demands.

It's called the mutliplier effect.

i highly doubt the money people save with the payroll tax cut is large enough to spur any significant economic growth. That's the same type of voodoo that Bush did with the refunds he gave to Americans. That helped very little indeed. Most people saved it or paid down bills. With the debt in this country, it's likely a similar thing is occurring with that limited payroll tax cut.

Especially considering, as I said, this payroll tax cut has been in place for a while; it hasn't shown to help the trajectory at all. At least, correlation does not equal causation even if there was some side-by-side trajectory, and there's no hard evidence to support it.
 
In a volatile economy right now, I'm pretty sure economists across the board are saying we need the payroll tax cut extended or we'll face even worse anemic economic growth.

Not saying I don't agree with you. It's an argument I was also taking into consideration.

Maybe it's the invisible free hand!
 
I wonder what's precipitating the job growth? Is it the payroll tax cut?
Businesses are just hiring left and right, and it's a mix of temp, seasonal and permanent. For the past 3 or 4 months, pretty much every time I drive I see "help wanted" or "hiring now" signs outside businesses. I drive sometimes between states and depending on work, even fly over to other states. Some of them are barbershops, some fast food franchises like Taco Bell and some retail/supplier warehouses looking for temps. The peculiar thing is I haven't seen this many signs like about a year ago. I know it's all anecdotal, but I get a sense that hiring is picking up but mostly due to consumers spending money. As long as people are willing to spend money, unemployment will continue going down.
 
These are excellent numbers.

Obama isn't losing with <8% unemployment rate, and if we get a few more reports like these, it'll be smooth sailing.

re:extensions, I think unemployment benefits being extended would help UE more than the payroll tax cut. Since they're part of the same bill, it works out.
 
I work at Sports Authority, and sales were pretty bad during the holidays to the point where they cut payroll. After-holiday hours were reduced for everyone, which is normal during the holidays, but only the employees who've been working at SA the longest got around 32-34 hours a week.

Although we have been doing alright in sales lately. I've seen my hours increase to 22 from 15.
 

Tim-E

Member
I work at Sports Authority, and sales were pretty bad during the holidays to the point where they cut payroll. After-holiday hours were reduced for everyone, which is normal during the holidays, but only the employees who've been working at SA the longest got around 32-34 hours a week.

Although we have been doing alright in sales lately. I've seen my hours increase to 22 from 15.

That's how any retail/food service job I ever had was. If you managed to get 30 hours a week, you were one of the lucky ones.
 

ToxicAdam

Member
How is austerity being shown to work, and what will Krugman have to spin? His argument is that austerity is contractionary and has been slowing the recovery

I know, imagine if we had more austerity measures. We could have doubled the positive effect on the economy.

That's how economic arguments work on Poligaf. X happens in one year and the Y result a few years later is proof it works.
 

GhaleonEB

Member
Nearly a quarter million jobs last month, eh?

As always, I suggest people read at least these two primary sources: employment summary | Establishment survey summary

Diablos, to the PoliGAF thread please. Diablos, to the PoliGAF thread.
I know, imagine if we had more austerity measures. We could have doubled the positive effect on the economy.

That's how economic arguments work on Poligaf. X happens in one year and the Y result a few years later is proof it works.

The fuck?
 
I know, imagine if we had more austerity measures. We could have doubled the positive effect on the economy.

That's how economic arguments work on Poligaf. X happens in one year and the Y result a few years later is proof it works.

If we are concern about employment at all cost, austerity is not the answer.

Government employment changed little in January. Over the past 12
months, the sector has lost 276,000 jobs, with declines in local
government; state government, excluding education; and the U.S. Postal
Service. http://www.bls.gov/news.release/empsit.nr0.htm

That is more than the January numbers alone. But I'm sure someone will come along and say these aren't real jobs because they are employed by the government.
 

ToxicAdam

Member
Those are the austerity measures I am speaking about. They are freeing up the job creators to create jobs. From here on out, all net positive gains in private sector employment can be attributed to it.
 
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