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PoliGAF 2012 Community Thread

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What does it mean to say from an "objective economic perspective"? A company can maximize profits by paying 0 wages. Is that what a company should do from an "economic perspective"?

And, if so, why should we care about the "economic perspective" at all?

A company wouldn't maximize profits by spending 0 wages because no one would work for 0 wages. Profit maximization is constrained.


What I mean by "economic perspective" is looking at a company without biases like altruism, etc. Think about it as a formula and nothing more.

I'm not arguing we should hold companies to that standard, but from a purely mathematically standpoint (maybe that's the better term), a company should profit maximize given its constraints.


Ah, I see.

From an objective perspective, a company's goal should be the owner of the company's goal. Generally, that goal will be to enrich the owner via maximizing profits. But that won't always be the case.

There is nothing inherent in the social construct of the company that requires maximizing profits.

mathematically, it's kind of nonsense to not maximize profits. But there's nothing wrong with an owner saying "I'd rather pay my employees more than they deserve even if it won't increase my profits because I make a lot of money and I don't need to squeeze every ounce out."

Economically/mathematically, Romney trying to maximize profits it fine. But as a society, perhaps we demand more than just pure greed? Maybe we demand that he consider that it's worth keeping more people working than adding $3 million to his total value when he's worth $500 million (random numbers).

For those that argue "well, he's just maximizes profits, what's wrong with that?" I think it's valid to retort "because on some level, as a society, he can be a bit altruistic."

And that's a valid argument in its own right.
 
Crazy far-right mayor attacks reporter trying to write report about mayor abusing his position to purchase public land for his personal use.

http://www.thestar.com/news/article/1172168--daniel-dale-on-what-happened-near-the-mayor-s-home

What is it with tea party types and thuggish behavior?


The same mayor, of course, pulls the "think of the children" excuse. He NEEDS that parkland to protect his children.

And yet when a report shows that changes to speed limits will actually save the lives of children...


Asked if the city will drop speed limits, as suggested earlier this week by the city's chief medical officer of health Ford told reporters on Friday the idea is "nuts, nuts, nuts, nuts. No."

The report — Road to Health: Improving Walking and Cycling in Toronto — released by Dr. David McKeown recommends speed limits be reduced by as much as 20 km/h, saying the slower speed limits will protect pedestrians and cyclists.

...

Ford, who has many times referred to what he calls the 'war on the car' in Toronto, said the proposal is "absolutely ridiculous."

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/story/2012/04/27/toronto-ford-nuts.html


I'm sure it's just a coincidence, but the mayor is also extremely obese.
 

Measley

Junior Member
SOOOOooooo Good.

It was so awesome when she asked him for some examples and he just started rattling them off. It was such an ambush but she fucking deserved it.

I'll say it again; It is damn sad that the only show doing this type of journalism is a COMEDY SHOW that parodies the news.
 

Chumly

Member
A company wouldn't maximize profits by spending 0 wages because no one would work for 0 wages. Profit maximization is constrained.


What I mean by "economic perspective" is looking at a company without biases like altruism, etc. Think about it as a formula and nothing more.

I'm not arguing we should hold companies to that standard, but from a purely mathematically standpoint (maybe that's the better term), a company should profit maximize given its constraints.




mathematically, it's kind of nonsense to not maximize profits. But there's nothing wrong with an owner saying "I'd rather pay my employees more than they deserve even if it won't increase my profits because I make a lot of money and I don't need to squeeze every ounce out."

Economically/mathematically, Romney trying to maximize profits it fine. But as a society, perhaps we demand more than just pure greed? Maybe we demand that he consider that it's worth keeping more people working than adding $3 million to his total value when he's worth $500 million (random numbers).

For those that argue "well, he's just maximizes profits, what's wrong with that?" I think it's valid to retort "because on some level, as a society, he can be a bit altruistic."

And that's a valid argument in its own right.
Short term slashing is not all its made out to be. Romney is a master at this. Going into companies doing short term slashing. Temporarily increasing the bottom line and selling the company. Doesn't matter if it could hurt or destroy a company long term. While slashing wages and benefits looks good on the bottom line it does a lot of damage to company morale and can do significant damage to quality and quantity of work that people put out which can do more damage than the money saved by budget slashing.

I'm sure Romney would be great at going in ripping apart our government to make it more "lean" but what would the long term effects be? Of course I don't think our government should be run like a private business anyways but I sure as hell don't want it run for short term gains.
 
Who is going to watch the official Obama campaign kick off?

Live Stream starts at 12:15 (interfering with my soccer game!), you can see a collection of pictures here:
https://www.barackobama.com/live?source=ColumbusLivestream-20120505-HP

697824cc-63d1-4f40-95ed-af5056e220ac.png
 
New York Times article on slowdown in jobs growth:

The nation’s employers are creating jobs at less than half the pace they were when this year began, according to a government report released Friday.

The addition of just 115,000 jobs in April was disappointing, but economists urged no panic just yet. ...

Many economists had been predicting that strong job growth early this year would persuade many people sitting on the sidelines to re-enter the job market.

Instead, for reasons that are unclear, workers continue to peel off the labor force. An estimated 342,000 Americans dropped out of the job market altogether in April. That is why the unemployment rate fell to 8.1 percent from 8.2 percent — not because more workers found jobs, but because so many people left the work force. ...

The share of working-age Americans who are either working or actively looking for a job is now at its lowest level since 1981, when far fewer women chose to do paid work. The share of men taking part in the labor force fell in April to 70 percent, the lowest figure since the Labor Department began collecting these data in 1948.

The decline in labor force participation is partly because baby boomers are hitting retirement age. But economists had expected the wave of retirements to be at least partly offset by the number of workers rejoining the labor force as the economy improved. ...

Instead, the number of young people in the labor force also fell. ...

With the average duration of unemployment now at an interminable 39.1 weeks, many people have simply given up looking for work. ...

Rather than prodding employment growth, the government is actually providing a drag on the economy.

Government spending has fallen for six straight quarters as Recovery Act funds have been exhausted and state and local governments have struggled with tax revenue shortfalls. Accordingly, the public sector has been shedding workers relatively consistently since the recovery officially began in mid-2009, with the exception of a brief spike of temporary hiring during the decennial census. Last month, governments eliminated 15,000 jobs.
...

Averaging the strong months of total job growth in January and February with the weaker ones in March and April, the economy has been adding about 200,000 jobs a month this year.

Job growth of any kind is obviously welcome. That pace, however, is not nearly fast enough to recover the losses from the Great Recession and its aftermath in the foreseeable future. At this rate, it would take more than two more years just to return to the prerecession peak in employment, though the country should actually have even more jobs given population growth and the current size of the economy.

Today the United States economy is producing more goods and services than it did when the recession officially began in December 2007, but with about five million fewer workers.

Because employers have learned how to produce more with fewer workers, there is also debate about what exactly “healthy” employment would look like in the current economy, and whether it makes sense to use the data from before the financial crisis as a benchmark. ...​

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/05/05/b...ed-only-115000-jobs-in-april-rate-is-8-1.html

Interesting warning at the end about what might be a new "full" employment rate. If so, that would make a job guarantee by the federal government all the more attractive and necessary.
 

RDreamer

Member
I have to hand it to Obama's campaign team. Everything they put out is just so well done. Every video and every picture just seems so uplifting in a way. The editing, music selection, and design on the videos is just magnificent. It'll be interesting to see if Romney's people can even compete at all on that sort of level.
 
I have to hand it to Obama's campaign team. Everything they put out is just so well done. Every video and every picture just seems so uplifting in a way. The editing, music selection, and design on the videos is just magnificent. It'll be interesting to see if Romney's people can even compete at all on that sort of level.

i know it was only the gop primary, but to see a bigger well funded team like romneys loosing states to a nickel and dime campaign run by santorum of all people was pretty telling.
 

RDreamer

Member
i know it was only the gop primary, but to see a bigger well funded team like romneys loosing states to a nickel and dime campaign run by santorum of all people was pretty telling.

Even outside of just being so insanely well done there's just a sort of feeling that Obama's campaign gives out. It's hopeful and uplifting in a way that I haven't really seen in any other campaign (besides the last Obama campaign). Can negativity and and fear really beat that?
 
STOP INTERRUPTING YOUR WAIFU

Even outside of just being so insanely well done there's just a sort of feeling that Obama's campaign gives out. It's hopeful and uplifting in a way that I haven't really seen in any other campaign (besides the last Obama campaign). Can negativity and and fear really beat that?

Yes. Negativity and Fear can beat Obama in a bad economy.
 

Brinbe

Member
Even outside of just being so insanely well done there's just a sort of feeling that Obama's campaign gives out. It's hopeful and uplifting in a way that I haven't really seen in any other campaign (besides the last Obama campaign). Can negativity and and fear really beat that?
I think it was shown to work by Romney in the GOP primary when his cheap opponents didn't have the money/capability to counter-act that constant barrage of negativity. I don't think it'll work against Bams, because well, look at this fucking slick-ass operation.

I like it so far. She seems kind of nervous, but maybe I'm just imagining that.
Nah, I agree with ya. She did a good job though.

And lol, it's gametime!?
 

Cloudy

Banned
"Corporations aren't people. PEOPLE are people".

I like it. Using Romney's words against him without personal attacks unlike what Romney and the GOP do
 

Tim-E

Member
Nice use of Springsteen!

Stump speech is really solid. Obama can still pack arenas. Has Romney filled any venues as large yet?

*cue image of empty football stadium*
 
Nice use of Springsteen!

Stump speech is really solid. Obama can still pack arenas. Has Romney filled any venues as large yet?

*cue image of empty football stadium*
After watching this I've decided that I should watch Romney's speeches in full instead of just the clips. I want to try and watch them with an open mind and see if he can stir my nether regions the way Bams does.
 

Tim-E

Member
If my baby daughter is being especially fussy, I think I'm going to try playing a Romney speech to see if it helps her fall asleep.
 

Tim-E

Member
Now that you mention it, she did fall asleep while I was watching the Obama speech.

I'm too late!!! Rombot has won. :(
 

thatbox

Banned
Democrats are sexist enough to think women need their help to achieve equality! Republicans believe that women can achieve equality by pulling themselves up by their own bootstraps!
 
Isn't it rather sexist to assume a woman needs to be "taken care of" by someone else?

Government puts policies in place to help the people. But considering, Romney supports the life at conception constitutional amendment, hasn't given any clear answer on equal pay laws, supports Paul Ryan's budget which will affect women . No it is not sexist to say that under Obama and the Democrats women will have a better footing than Romney and the Republicans.

BTW, I would say the same thing if it was a man. Only the policies and ideas would be different in this case.
 
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