Dit not see this posted yet:
http://edition.cnn.com/2015/12/04/us/san-bernardino-shooting/index.html
http://edition.cnn.com/2015/12/04/us/san-bernardino-shooting/index.html
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San Bernardino shooting: Attacker pledged allegiance to ISIS, officials say
- Thread starter Omiee
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ElectricBlanketFire
Member
If only we didn't allow those Syrian refugees in...
entremet
Member
It's only been two days.
Has their been any evidence so far to prove that they received direct help from ISIS, or were they just inspired by them? I'm not sure which is worse though.
This is whole situation is terrifying. If only we could figure out what convinced these people that they needed to do this.
This is whole situation is terrifying. If only we could figure out what convinced these people that they needed to do this.
Miles Quaritch
Member
This seems...strange.
And their lack of taking of credit for the attack is equally strange. Guess we'll find out as more details continue to come out.
entremet
Member
No. Who knows what the FBI investigation turns up, though.
Moreover, ISIS hasn't taken credit for this, which they're usually quick to do so.
My guess, and again this is just my speculation, I'm not speaking authoritatively, is that there were radicalized similar to the Boston bombers.
But we will see.
Lan Dong Mik
And why would I want them?
It was only a matter of time. Fuck this is beyond terrifying. We're going to have extremists in the US that have literally no association with ISIS wanting to pledge their allegiance to these sick fucks only to somehow justify in their minds that mass killings/jihadism are their duty in the name of Islam. Terrifying times we live in. I'm afraid this is just the start of it.
Alligatorjandro
Banned
Welp
Cosmonaut X
Member
I don't believe there's any indication that they did receive assistance or instructions. Unless I've missed something significant so far, it appears that the couple acted alone but were clearly radicalised at some point and had some minor contact with others under surveillance.
The trips abroad weren't too any notable hotspots/conflict zones - so no travelling abroad to training camps etc. - but that's no guarantee they didn't come into contact with someone abroad who may have been involved.
It really looks as though this was something they planned themselves, inspired by the actions of groups like ISIS, then executed on their own timetable, rather than them being a cell receiving support and instruction from elsewhere, but there may still be a lot more to come out.
Whatever the case, it's going to be a huge issue, but I'm glad the police and FBI have been very careful about how they've handled the release of information and not rushed to judgement. Here's hoping everyone else can be as calm now this is out there.
If this was posted while the attacks were happening, it may have been to attempt to conceal their identity to allow them to escape or give them time to attack somewhere else, perhaps?
Jag
Member
Well any random person is capable of this shit (thanks gun laws!) Doesn't have to be a Muslim. Welcome to the new world.
Why not. They are insanely active in social media and very effective in getting converts to their cause. Closing your eyes to the new reality isn't going to make it go away.
Orbis Tabula
Member
This is such a strange case.
Veritigo_X
Member
Makes me think it was just a post saying she supports ISIS and not any kind of communication. I still think this was a homegrown kinda deal with no real connection to the actual ISIS organization.
gregor7777
Banned
We are in trouble.
boiled goose
good with gravy
What an idiot. You killed people and now your life is also ruined.
Man the human brain can be so faulty sometimes.
Man the human brain can be so faulty sometimes.
backflip10019
Member
Well, it seems she pledged her allegiance to ISIS, not the other way around. Could be inspired by it without them even being involved. It could really be nothing more than a copycat.
Macho Madness
Member
She's dead.
valkillmore
Member
This development is pretty fucking crazy.
I've been a big Obama supporter, and still am. I'm Canadian, but believe Obama had the right strategy regarding Isis.
Up until now.
Every time I see him come out and address the media, particularly regarding this instance and the last time he came out before this attack and said there was no credible threat. Well he has said just after the shooting that the US is safe from an attack from Isis.
How does he respond to this development? How can he, or ANYONE in defence, claim that the US is safe from an attack from ISIS? It's now happened.
I'm really starting to question whether his strategy is the right one.
I've been a big Obama supporter, and still am. I'm Canadian, but believe Obama had the right strategy regarding Isis.
Up until now.
Every time I see him come out and address the media, particularly regarding this instance and the last time he came out before this attack and said there was no credible threat. Well he has said just after the shooting that the US is safe from an attack from Isis.
How does he respond to this development? How can he, or ANYONE in defence, claim that the US is safe from an attack from ISIS? It's now happened.
I'm really starting to question whether his strategy is the right one.
RPGCrazied
Member
When will this end? Obviously striking their command post in Syria is not working.
shortsFortallPeople
Banned
please explain to me how you defeat an ideology
That's what they are telling us.
Just seems convenient.
Oh hey they were Isis so continue to just hate them and move on with life.
backflip10019
Member
Between his stance on ISIS and how many times he's said "enough is enough" when it comes to gun control and mass shootings, I really think he's beginning to phone it in. I've never had these sorts of doubts about him before.
It's a fair point.
ElectricBlanketFire
Member
Nothing can be done to be totally safe from ISIS. What is your strategy?
What's he supposed to do?
Anton Sugar
Member
Pretty sure much of Obama's stance has been regarding refugees/immigrants--we're safe because the screening measures should prevent or flag any potential terrorists.
There's not much we can do about American citizens that sympathize with ISIS, outside of monitoring measures. They're already in the country. They can purchase legal weapons and equipment.
We can't stop an ideology. We can try and reduce the conditions that are favorable for its growth, though.
Black Friday just set record sales for firearms in the US. It's clear he wants to do something but it's not that easy to get support for it.
Ziltoidia 9
Member
If your going to let the refuges in, we have to understand there might by a .01% of them that are looking to cause shit. I agree we should help them but I think there needs to be an acknowledgement that there is a more than likely chance a few of them will do something.
Also seems like someone would find their way into the country regardless.
Take the children and elderly first, etc.
And I know these people weren't refugees, wasn't trying to say that. Was making a broader point because this story will be used against refugees.
Also seems like someone would find their way into the country regardless.
Take the children and elderly first, etc.
And I know these people weren't refugees, wasn't trying to say that. Was making a broader point because this story will be used against refugees.
Orbis Tabula
Member
I suppose the question should be "Is there a strategy that keeps us 100% safe? One that ensures that no attacks can happen?" If there is, I'd love to hear it.
entremet
Member
The issue is that Western ME involvement has only made it worse and emboldened radicals.
We keep bombing them.
They get more enraged to attack the West.
They attack us.
We bomb them again.
Rinse, repeat, etc.
The history of the ME and Western involvement has been a tragic to say the least.
Can we leave them alone for a few decades, maybe provide humanitarian support and defense, but that's it.
Let's stop bombing hospitals and wedding parties, please.
When the meme of Jihadism is no longer around. So, uhh... Not soon.
ISIS wants to kill you whether you bomb them or not.
Disheveled_Zen
Member
This whole thing is just so depressing. If it does come out that they had ties / were inspired by ISIS, this is going to propel islamaphobia into the stratosphere.
This wasn't your typical person who snuck in and committed an atrocity. This was someone who worked for a governmental department, was relatively liked by his coworkers and seemed normal, and had a wife and infant child. This is going to cause mistrust to go insane, and I feel like Trump and all them are going to use this to their advantage. Play on peoples fears and racism, and the sad part is, people will eat it up.
This wasn't your typical person who snuck in and committed an atrocity. This was someone who worked for a governmental department, was relatively liked by his coworkers and seemed normal, and had a wife and infant child. This is going to cause mistrust to go insane, and I feel like Trump and all them are going to use this to their advantage. Play on peoples fears and racism, and the sad part is, people will eat it up.
backflip10019
Member
Honestly dude, it's a really tough situation. But coming out and saying we're safe from ISIS was nonsense from the beginning. I understand how important it is not to cause panic, but dealing in the other "complete safety" extreme was a bald-faced lie and he knew it. And now we know it.
If anything, I think he should be out there encouraging the Muslim community to be more vocal about condemning these attacks and educating one another on the absolute insanity that is extremism. The only way to stop an ideology is to halt it from spreading and the easiest way to do that is through education. That doesn't have to mean in the Middle East -- it can start at home.
We've seen very little of that thus far.
I would say that's the main issue, but we can't deny that there is a problem with radicalization of ceratain extremist elements, and the US is not immune to this.
That said, I don't think Trump's registry/deportation/wall scheme is the way. I wonder if we could actually prevent radicalization if we accepted more refugees and tried to turn down the Islamophobia in the US.
Veritigo_X
Member
nvm
diffusionx
Gold Member
When I heard his wife was from Saudi Arabia and he just came from there, I had a bad feeling.
But we keep supporting SA and giving them money, so...
But we keep supporting SA and giving them money, so...
valkillmore
Member
That's my point. Why would Obama come out and say the US is safe from an attack from ISIS? Because there is no actionable intel that there is an iminent threat? Well as it turns out that doesn't matter. At the press conferences after the shooting they said there was no advanced intel about this attack.
I've never doubted him before either. But him coming out, after 14 people were killed out of nowhere in yet another mass shooting, following similar attacks in Paris that were linked to terrorism and many others here and abroad and say 'ISIS won't attack here' is just plain irresponsible. Not sure why he said what he said, but I feel as if it was a mistake and demonstrable of their lack of intelligence on the planning techniques these terrorists are using to coordinate.
If nothing can be done to be totally safe from ISIS, why is the president quoted in a televised interview addressing the nation and stating that the US is safe from an attack from ISIS?
And please don't go the 'whats your strategy' route. It's not my job to have a strategy. That's THEIR job. And they're failing at it.
ReturnOfTheRAT
Member
Time to get serious about this problem.
And we know where it starts.
And we know where it starts.
Eventually, they'll take it one step too far. Maybe not in this country, but somewhere. Then the nukes.
I don't see any other ending to this story.
There's a difference than between expressing your allegiance for ISIS, and actually being a part of the organization. The smaller and more close knit the attackers, the more difficult it's going to be for intelligence to stop.
BarringGaffner
Member
%100 is the only option? well we might as well do nothing then.
There's plnety we could do to move towards far less.
Magical Sound Shower
Banned
Maybe they were like a kind one of independent, unrelated self-proclaimed ISIS cells. Perhaps she pledged alliance on facebook but they had no links to actual official ISIS operatives and maybe thats why they never claimed it. The real ISIS had no idea about this particular attack. We have to wait for more details.
That's pretty much ISIS' strategy. They want this kind of thing to happen so that weak-willed people can be recruited by their people using the "Look at how they treating our people! They hate us! Why don't you help us, and become an hero?!" angle
SyenceLabb
Member
Looking forward to Trump's inauguration.
ElectricBlanketFire
Member
He literally says "the threat is real" in the video.
But he obviously meant that in general, you don't have to worry about ISIS while going about your average day.
In your opinion, what should we do to keep safe from ISIS?
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