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[Xplatformer]

Looks like some dude put a giant comprehensive paper together of all things Star Citizen. Take a look:

https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/3ws9mp/schemata_formerly_the_big_scam_v_30_is_up_220/

Hot Damn. Thanks. Downloaded and saved on my surface.

 

[Dictator93]

Can't find any solid answers on this, so maybe you guys can help. If you buy Squadron 42, do you also get Star Citizen and vice versa, or are they separate entities?

I believe they are now, but they weren't to begin with. When I bought my first ship package, I got access to both. This was back when Star Citizen was still in its infancy.

SQ42 pre-order comes with Star Citizen:
https://robertsspaceindustries.com/pledge/Packages/Squadron-42-Preorder

All starter packages comes include both and their newer unified price reflects that.

 

[jaaz]

Yeah...but unoptimized as a mofo. My 970 at 1080p shouldn't drop to 19fps...at all.

Lovely game though.

It's the server as someone said. I get 80-90 FPS in Arena Commander. And as you can see that drops to the 20s in Port Orisar. My rig, which will soon be upgraded:

i7-2600 @ 3.9
GTX 980
8g DDR3 RAM

 

[Dubbedinenglish]

Can't find any solid answers on this, so maybe you guys can help. If you buy Squadron 42, do you also get Star Citizen and vice versa, or are they separate entities?

"Star Citizen" you are referring to is the public universe which will be F2P. So you will have access to it. Also they recently did away with the module passes so should get into the FPS part as well as future beta and alpha modules.

 

[-tetsuo-]

Yeah...but unoptimized as a mofo. My 970 at 1080p shouldn't drop to 19fps...at all.

Lovely game though.

What CPU do you have? I have a 3570k@ 4.6ghz and it gets completely crushed by this game.

 

[Dictator93]

"Star Citizen" you are referring to is the public universe which will be F2P. So you will have access to it. Also they recently did away with the module passes so should get into the FPS part as well as future beta and alpha modules.

wait wait wait a minute. It will not be f2p, as you will still have to buy it like one would buy most mmos. It just does not have a subscription fee.

What CPU do you have? I have a 3570k@ 4.6ghz and it gets completely crushed by this game.

This is important as well to make mention of. Even when they clean up the servers limiting client performance, lot's of rigs will still be CPU bottlenecked in a lot of scenarios. I know min e is.

We will have to wait for DX12 or till when they split up the game"s mean thread to be jobified. Right now a lot of the game tasks were split up into a job system where jobs can steal from other jobs. This does not apply to the game main thread though, hence why one core is limitting performance and is maxed at 100% always.

 

[Akronis]

We will have to wait for DX12 or till when they split up the game"s mean thread to be jobified. Right now a lot of the game tasks were split up into a job system where jobs can steal from other jobs. This does not apply to the game main thread though, hence why one core is limitting performance and is maxed at 100% always.

That doesn't sound thread safe at all

 

[UpDownLeftRight]

So the griefing has begun. Was just stuck at the port due to a group of about 5-7 players all pushing any spawned ships off into space. I mean, I know they're gonna show up sooner or later but it's literally a couple days into the testing phase. What's the point of griefing during an alpha?

 

[randomlee26]

So the griefing has begun. Was just stuck at the port due to a group of about 5-7 players all pushing any spawned ships off into space. I mean, I know they're gonna show up sooner or later but it's literally a couple days into the testing phase. What's the point of griefing during an alpha?

Probably because a large amount of alpha players don't treat it like a test run.

 

[tuxfool]

That doesn't sound thread safe at all

That has nothing to do with thread safety, but everything to do with preemption. Some jobs with higher priority are stealing cpu time from other jobs that would also need to run but are instead being put in a queue. This is a problem because jobs get stuck with CPU affinity and the game cannot schedule jobs to be performed in another thread.

 

[Dictator93]

That doesn't sound thread safe at all

From October's monthly report.

Engineering – Chris Bolte

Hi Everyone, during the past month my main focus was on upping the quality of our two October releases: CitizenCon and SC 1.3.

During this time I worked on several optimizations, mostly around the ZoneSystem and CPU side object culling. Besides those, my second focus was on improving our thread backend to be more optimal for a PC only game.

CPU Performance has changed a lot over the recent years. In the old times, optimization was straight forward, there was only a single execution unit inside the CPU which did all the computations. In addition, there was an active GHz race, causing your code to automatically run faster by each new released CPU. Nowadays, the GHz of CPUs don’t change much anymore (single core performance still increases, but not on the level as it did before) and CPUs have gone “wide”, by providing more execution units.

This puts more burden on the programmer, as concurrent programming can be very complex. Since games have (by their nature) are very sequential execution; each frame first must update the state of the world, and then send this state to the GPU for rendering, It is hard to parallelize those in a way that actually gets you any performance gain. To do this, one of the most prominent models used for Games is a so called Main Thread. This Main Thread can be assumed to be like a regular game loop from the single core CPU times. The other cores are then used during a frame to help the Main Thread. If for example, we must update the state of 100 particle systems, we can distribute those over all CPU cores, to reduce the latency between beginning to update the state and being done with it. See the attached picture for a simplified example how this distribution helps.

To make all of this even more complex, the PC platform has to be more general than consoles. On consoles, the game normally has all the resources exclusively and on a known hardware set. On a PC, the game has to share the resources dynamically with an unknown number of processes running at the same time on an unknown hardware platform.

So to better utilize the PC platform, we switch the thread backend to batch oriented work stealing approach. By using this new model, we can massively reduce the cost to communicate with different threads as we only need to send a signal once per batch, and not once per entry. We also reduced the contention between the worker threads (important to scale to a higher number of CPUs), by utilizing work stealing so that threads communicate with each other instead of over a central queue.

This whole threading change was one of the major improvements for performance for 1.3, which also causes a higher CPU usage (which is good, as we now actually make use of the cores inside your CPU). Currently, nearly all legacy jobs are already ported over to this system, as well as all CPU side culling of the ZoneSystem. In the future this system will be used to parallelize parts of the game code, as well as a few additional things.

cute image they added along side the report

 

[Akronis]

That has nothing to do with thread safety, but everything to do with preemption. Some jobs with higher priority are stealing cpu time from other jobs that would also need to run but are instead being put in a queue. This is a problem because jobs get stuck with CPU affinity and the game cannot schedule jobs to be performed in another thread.

Oh. I completely misinterpreted what he said then lol.

So they're being queued instead of being threaded?

 

[tuxfool]

Oh. I completely misinterpreted what he said then lol.

So they're being queued instead of being threaded?

There are two ways to go about things. One is you assign one or more functions to a thread and just let them sleep when not in use. Unfortunately switching threads involves a context switch, dumping the stack etc.

It has low overhead if you're not switching threads a lot.However, one of the newer paradigms in games development (implementation by necessity, not the idea itself) is just to have a pool of threads or maybe even just one thread per core and then organise your execution resources into self contained jobs. This means having fewer issues about task contention or issues with thread safety. So what happens is that jobs by themselves are completely independent of threads and basically the main thread (or all threads cooperatively) allocate jobs to threads which then get executed.

Of course such granularity will depend on a task by task basis. From what I understand CryEngine currently somewhat well threaded but isn't jobbified to the degree of newer open world engines like RedEngine, JC3 engine even the newer gamebryo engine.

Somebody feel free to correct me if I'm wrong (though obviously I'm omitting a lot of details).

 

[tuxfool]

So the griefing has begun. Was just stuck at the port due to a group of about 5-7 players all pushing any spawned ships off into space. I mean, I know they're gonna show up sooner or later but it's literally a couple days into the testing phase. What's the point of griefing during an alpha?

It sucks, but honestly I think it should remain. This is the time where the designers can look at what people are doing and figure out ways to counteract it.

 

[Seventy_X_Seven]

Probably because a large amount of alpha players don't treat it like a test run.

I'd argue griefing during an alpha is just as important to discover the limits of how bad it can get so that stuff can be fixed right away.

 

[phoenixyz]

Man the game doesn't work, like, at all. But this Alpha still invigorated my hype so hard. It just looks ridiculously amazing.

 

[tuxfool]

Man the game doesn't work, like, at all. But this Alpha still invigorated my hype so hard. It just looks ridiculously amazing.

That kind of sucks too. I guess I've been lucky, to get in I typically only have to try for a few minutes before I get a working session. From what I understand some people need to try for hours.

 

[Seventy_X_Seven]

That kind of sucks too. I guess I've been lucky, to get in I typically only have to try for a few minutes before I get a working session.

I've been getting lucky as well but it's been nearly impossible to get in with a friend. I'll end up making friends on the go but as soon as we hit it off someone will crash and that's the end of that. Best luck I've had was just doing stuff on my own.

 

[AP90]

It's the server as someone said. I get 80-90 FPS in Arena Commander. And as you can see that drops to the 20s in Port Orisar. My rig, which will soon be upgraded:

i7-2600 @ 3.9
GTX 980
8g DDR3 RAM

Yeah!! i7-2600k like a boss just like me!!

In arena commander at very high it is smooth for me and in the universe I get dips due to the server side of things.

i7-2600k oc'ed to 4.5ghz
240gig SSD
16gig 1600mhz DDR3 RAM
Evga 980ti SC oc'ed

Btw, everyone should experience quantum jump with a 5.1 system cranked. I did so with a buddy and my brother the other and it was amazing. Really wish I had a 5.1 system for my computer, but I will prob eventually get some awesome headphones instead.

 

[Rephin]

I've been getting lucky as well but it's been nearly impossible to get in with a friend. I'll end up making friends on the go but as soon as we hit it off someone will crash and that's the end of that. Best luck I've had was just doing stuff on my own.

I'll second the friend thing. I was trying to get together with two other friends, and the best we could do for a long time was two people in the same server. We finally got three in the same server, hopped on a Connie, and took off, but shortly afterwards I fell through the floor and crashed, and someone logging in took my spot on the server. lol.

They need a better matchmaking system.

This also reminds me that I should also start adding some of the GAF Org members to my Follow list.

 

[Geist-]

I'm dead. This killed me.

 

[Steejee]

http://gfycat.com/HandsomeFarDiscus

I'm dead. This killed me.

It's....beautiful.

Oddly enough that gif is the sort of thing that draws me in as much as any space combat vids.

 

[king grimlock]

Why are my ships feeling really weak? I just tapped a station with the belly of my 325a and died and aurora's keep killing me in a few hits.

 

[Dictator93]

I'm dead. This killed me.

I love that animation. I just love it.

 

[Raticus79]

What's the point of griefing during an alpha?

For someone in the frame of mind to indulge in that kind of thing, it doesn't really matter whether it's alpha or live. Pigeons are scattering and feathers are getting amusingly ruffled either way.

Also consider that it's a free flight period, so it's an easy time for people to register free alt accounts to go wreak havoc anonymously without risking their main account's reputation (or a ban), and they can also bring in friends who might have fun raising hell for free and otherwise wouldn't bother with the game.

It sucks, but honestly I think it should remain. This is the time where the designers can look at what people are doing and figure out ways to counteract it.

I'd argue griefing during an alpha is just as important to discover the limits of how bad it can get so that stuff can be fixed right away.

Yup, they'll need to deal with it eventually, so might as well go through the growing pains of developing the game's immune systems now.

In the mean time, best bet is to just spacewalk over to one of the other three platforms and launch your ship from there.

 

[Effect]

So are they still requiring you to redownload 15+ gigs whenever they patch the client?

It also still using pretty much all of your CPU power because reasons?

 

[rabidbot]

It sucks, but honestly I think it should remain. This is the time where the designers can look at what people are doing and figure out ways to counteract it.

Totally, this is the best time to let the griefers go wild.

 

[aerts1js]

Some images from the monthly report:

[/IMG]

Is this in-game!?

 

[Dictator93]

So are they still requiring you to redownload 15+ gigs whenever they patch the client?

It also still using pretty much all of your CPU power because reasons?

Yes and yes. There have been some nice explanations posted up in the thread even.

Is this in-game!?

Yes.

 

[Voidwolf]

I'm dead. This killed me.

There are emotes?! How do you do this? And how on earth do I get up from a chair once I sit down in someone's ship? I didn't see anything on it on the keybinding page.

 

[viveks86]

SQ42 pre-order comes with Star Citizen:
https://robertsspaceindustries.com/pledge/Packages/Squadron-42-Preorder

All starter packages comes include both and their newer unified price reflects that.

For $45 dollars that's a steal!

 

[Trace]

Honestly, 2.0 has showed me that this game actually can do what they've said it will do. I haven't been playing the alphas too much, just because I want a fresh look when it's actually done, but figuring out how to fly/land my Aurora and then jumping to another station, finding someone inside and fighting them was just nuts. I'm hoping it starts running at over 20 fps soon, but it's still pretty crazy already.

 

[UpDownLeftRight]

For someone in the frame of mind to indulge in that kind of thing, it doesn't really matter whether it's alpha or live. Pigeons are scattering and feathers are getting amusingly ruffled either way.

Also consider that it's a free flight period, so it's an easy time for people to register free alt accounts to go wreak havoc anonymously without risking their main account's reputation (or a ban), and they can also bring in friends who might have fun raising hell for free and otherwise wouldn't bother with the game.

That's a good point actually, I'd forgotten it was still open at the moment. At least this gives them a reason to consider an in lore reason for keeping those ships grounded better when landed. I know they're very determined to keep everything in lore rather than just for designs sake so perhaps these ships should have a magnetized system similar to the boots so they can't be nudged off the pad so easily.

 

[Raticus79]

There are emotes?! How do you do this? And how on earth do I get up from a chair once I sit down in someone's ship? I didn't see anything on it on the keybinding page.

There's an absurd number of emotes: https://youtu.be/rOhp2rdDG_M?t=466 (edit: updated to a newer video with more of them)
This one's /rude3

 

[Rephin]

There are emotes?! How do you do this? And how on earth do I get up from a chair once I sit down in someone's ship? I didn't see anything on it on the keybinding page.

Hit F12 to open up your chat window, then Enter to type something, then slash and the emote you want. Good number of them are listed in Raticus' video above.

I think it's Left CTRL+F to exit your seat.

Edit:

 

[tuxfool]

lol

https://archive.is/GFvNl

 

[Xplatformer]

What CPU do you have? I have a 3570k@ 4.6ghz and it gets completely crushed by this game.

4690k

I'm thinking Jaaz is right about it being a server side issue.

 

[Zabojnik]

What a time to be alive.

 

[Daedardus]

What a time to be alive.

Belieeeeeve. Wish I had no datacap at dorm. Need to test out 2.0 really soon, but it will be somewhere after this week when I can download the game at home.

 

[Dictator93]

There's an absurd number of emotes: https://youtu.be/rOhp2rdDG_M?t=466 (edit: updated to a newer video with more of them)
This one's /rude3

I have typed /help in-game to look at how many, but god damn, that is just a lot of emotes. ALso... all the flex ones are just hilarious.

lol

https://archive.is/GFvNl

lol

 

[aerts1js]

Yes and yes. There have been some nice explanations posted up in the thread even.


Yes.

Holy shit. That is awesome. Is there any ETA when this may be released?

 

[Xplatformer]

Star Citizen Navigator app for iOS/Android

Just loaded on my iphone. Brought a smile to my face.

Too bad the same app isn't available for my Surface 2.

 

[Dictator93]

Holy shit. That is awesome. Is there any ETA when this may be released?

The most recent trailers for Squadron 42 (the single player campaign of Star Citizen from which those screens originate) say the game is releasing in 2016. I imagine at the end of that year personally.
Trailers:
1
2

 

[epmode]

lol

https://archive.is/GFvNl

"Star Citizen may not be a scam"

See? Public perception is improving all the time!

 

[Daedardus]

"Star Citizen may not be a scam"

See? Public perception is improving all the time!

Now we need to get to $200 million to prove it's not a cult.

 

[Shy]

Honestly, 2.0 has showed me that this game actually can do what they've said it will do.

Yep, this game really is going to be the GOAT.

 

[Xplatformer]

Rotating the camera while in 3rd person view?

I would like to see what it looks like when I perform the emotes that are available but not from the behind the back viewpoint.

I want to see what other citizens will see.


I heard /dance5 is pretty cool.

 

[jaaz]

Check these screen shots out. First is from Arena Commander and second/third are from the Universe. Look at GPU/CPU utilization, and specially the Core utilization:

 

[viveks86]

The most recent trailers for Squadron 42 (the single player campaign of Star Citizen from which those screens originate) say the game is releasing in 2016. I imagine at the end of that year personally.
Trailers:
1
2

Squadron 42 by the end of 2016?! You are killing me, man :'(

 

[Dubbedinenglish]

Squadron 42 by the end of 2016?! You are killing me, man :'(

Just think of it as "Soon™"