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Vehicle plows into counter protesters in Charlottesville

Goodstyle

Member
https://twitter.com/copcemetery/status/896947418536792064

Thread from a self-described Marxist about a vigil for Heather he went to. Wondering what you guys think.
He makes some valid points, but I feel like this type of attitude turns people off from the DSA and similar groups. I'm solidly to the left, but this type of intense criticism of neoliberals/center-left people kinda rubs me the wrong way. It's better to educate than condemn IMO.
This guy's a moron and is probably lying at some points. Liberals hate the phrase "All Lives Matter", not buying that someone would show up to this vigil for someone that died fighting white supremacy with a shirt that says that.

1. He proudly doesn't vote.
2. He says Dems are useless as if the recent Healthcare vote didn't happen.
3. Literally says people should join a militia and arm up.

On top of calling his friends "comrades", this kid is deeply misguided and hurts the causes he thinks he's helping. Screw him.
 
https://twitter.com/copcemetery/status/896947418536792064

Thread from a self-described Marxist about a vigil for Heather he went to. Wondering what you guys think.
He makes some valid points, but I feel like this type of attitude turns people off from the DSA and similar groups. I'm solidly to the left, but this type of intense criticism of neoliberals/center-left people kinda rubs me the wrong way. It's better to educate than condemn IMO.

"Line 'em up against a wall" and what...start executing them for standing in the way of the progress that he wants to see take place?

Boy howdy does that sound familiar. Hate is a circle, people. This rant reads like someone damn near finished the trip around.
 

GSG Flash

Nobody ruins my family vacation but me...and maybe the boy!
Saw a picture of toddler Heather Heyer in the arms of her dad, it really hit me hard :(
 

Raven117

Member
"Line 'em up against a wall" and what...start executing them for standing in the way of the progress that he wants to see take place?

Boy howdy does that sound familiar. Hate is a circle, people. This rant reads like someone damn near finished the trip around.

Good post. Hate is indeed a circle. The irony of so many of these groups would be funny if it wasn't so destructive.
 

Zeke

Member
This was the flash-point these cretins wanted. Expect gunfire from these assholes, and a concerted effort to claim that it's simply self-defense against a violent AtiFA.

The dam is broken, we all must prepare for the deluge.
I don't see Nazis opening fire on antifa or vise versa tbh. I see lots of fighting in the streets and the police sitting on the sideline for sure tho. The next few rallies the fascists put on will be telling tho. As my wife and I were watching the coverage this weekend she suggested we buy a few guns for protection. In all the time we've known each other I would never have imagined her saying that and I can't even say she's wrong for suggesting it.
 

The Kree

Banned
Wishing something bad would happen to them is not the same thing as assaulting them. It saddens me how many folks here and elsewhere are willing to lower their standards to satiate some stupid blood lust. The principles we on the left clung to (rightfully) a week ago are suddenly gone for so many ppl. It's a pathetic way to respond to what happened imho.

The appropriate response should be to enforce hate speech laws to the letter and throw the book at ppl who engage in it. Even if that hate speech is anti-Nazi, btw. Threatening ppl due to their beliefs is not ok just because you really, REALLY hate the people you target and believe they are subhuman.

White supremacy is not a nation with soldiers. It is an idea and you can't eradicate ideas with violence. You have to work to marginalize those ideas within society. Push for tougher hate speech laws and push for their strict enforcement.

Watch this real quick: https://youtu.be/UDjKF-ovH90?t=60

In case anyone is too lazy to click the link, the Nazi gentleman in the video says:

Our republican values are:

1) standing up for local white identity

2) the free market

3) killing jews


So we're not talking about lowering standards and we're not talking about blood lust. We're talking about self-defense. We have a White House that wants to take the KKK and Neo-Nazis off the government's terror watch list. We have state governments proposing legislation that would literally cripple future protest efforts. Half of republicans are OK with postponing elections.

Your principles have to change when the law is not on your side and the majority of the people have already expressed apathy towards your existence being threatened.

I'm not asking you to take up arms. I'm asking you to stop guilt tripping people who want to fight for their existence. If you don't think the threat is real enough, good for you, I hope you live long and have a happy life.

You should know that Nazis took their time, decades, getting into power in Germany and it wasn't until it was too late that people - mostly stupid, principled liberals - realized what needed to be done to stop them, but by then it was too late. Do you really wanna wait? You really wanna assume it can't happen here? Because this country is REALLY fucking good at not learning lessons from it's own history or history abroad.
 
https://twitter.com/copcemetery/status/896947418536792064

Thread from a self-described Marxist about a vigil for Heather he went to. Wondering what you guys think.
He makes some valid points, but I feel like this type of attitude turns people off from the DSA and similar groups. I'm solidly to the left, but this type of intense criticism of neoliberals/center-left people kinda rubs me the wrong way. It's better to educate than condemn IMO.

This person isn't a very good Marxist.
 

thill1985

Banned
Watch this real quick: https://youtu.be/UDjKF-ovH90?t=60

In case anyone is too lazy to click the link, the Nazi gentleman in the video says:

Our republican values are:

1) standing up for local white identity

2) the free market

3) killing jews


So we're not talking about lowering standards and we're not talking about blood lust. We're talking about self-defense. We have a White House that just took the KKK and Neo-Nazis off the government's terror watch list. We have state governments proposing legislation that would literally cripple future protest efforts. Half of republicans are OK with postponing elections.

Your principles have to change when the law is not on your side and the majority of the people have already expressed apathy towards your existence being threatened.

I'm not asking you to take up arms. I'm asking you to stop guilt tripping people who want to fight for their existence. If you don't think the threat is real enough, good for you, I hope you live long and have a happy life.

You should know that Nazis took their time, decades, getting into power in Germany and it wasn't until it was too late that people - mostly stupid, principled liberals - realized what needed to be done to stop them, but by then it was too late. Do you really wanna wait? You really wanna assume it can't happen here? Because this country is REALLY fucking good at not learning lessons from it's own history or history abroad.

My point somehow flew right over your head. Re-read the post of mine you replied to please. Digest it before responding.

What I was saying is that the principles the left cherishes are far more fickle than I assumed. An example might help. During the campaign when Trump had goons at rallies beat up anti-Trumpers, we (hopefully) all condemend the actions. Why? Because simply disagreeing with political matters is NOT sufficient excuse to beat or assault ppl. Since Saturday, that principle has been almost completely ignored. On what grounds? You don't like what the Nazis are saying.

For those of us who actually hold principles close to our hearts (and heads), that is a pathetic response to the violence we saw on Saturday. We have laws in place specifically for this type of thing and many on the left want to abandon our most primal principles related to how laws should be respected just for the sake of venting some violent aggression. If someone is being beaten, they have a right to self defense and others around them have a right to step in to protect ppl. But assaulting ppl outright is cowardice and naive.

And no, it wasn't 'principled liberals' who allowed Nazism to take hold in Germany. Nor is anyone suggesting we should assume that cannot happen here. You are simply making shit up now to fill the gap in your argument. See my example about Malcolm X vs MLK from earlier. Ya might learn something.
 
Very hard not to go off on the Trump supporter in my office right now. Talking about the events of the weekend being insignificant and downplaying the racism displayed. "I haven't been paying attention, we don't listen to any of the bad parts of the news." Yep, typical Trumper.
 

cameron

Member
Posted? Terrorist denied bail.

The Associated Press‏ @AP 1m1 minute ago
BREAKING: Bail denied for Ohio man accused of ramming car into crowd of Charlottesville protesters and killing 1 woman.

Bit more about his arraignment via BBC: Charlottesville car-ram suspect James Alex Fields denied bail
James Alex Fields was denied bail as he was arraigned for second-degree murder, three counts of malicious wounding and one count of hit and run.
In court - Joel Gunter, BBC News, Charlottesville

James Alex Fields looked nervous and listless on the small monitor in the corner of the courtroom. Mostly he kept his head down, his eyes darting occasionally up towards the camera.

He was wearing a striped jumpsuit and had the neat, buzzcut hairstyle favoured by many white supremacists and neo-nazis who have united under the banner of the so-called "alt-right".

Judge Robert Downer read his charges - one count of murder, one count of hit and run, three counts of malicious wounding.

Alex Fields spoke briefly to say he was employed by Securitas and Omni Ohio, could not afford a lawyer, and had no ties to Charlottesville. Judge Downer denied him bail, and revealed he could not be appointed a public defender because someone in the public defender's office was directly affected by the crime.

His appointed lawyer, Charles Webster, named in court by the judge, had yet to be contacted to inform him of his latest client.
 

Kinyou

Member
Very hard not to go off on the Trump supporter in my office right now. Talking about the events of the weekend being insignificant and downplaying the racism displayed. "I haven't been paying attention, we don't listen to any of the bad parts of the news." Yep, typical Trumper.
I guess it speaks for itself if they can't even defend it anymore and just close their eyes.
 

The Kree

Banned
My point somehow flew right over your head. Re-read the post of mine you replied to please. Digest it before responding.

What I was saying is that the principles the left cherishes are far more fickle than I assumed. An example might help. During the campaign when Trump had goons at rallies beat up anti-Trumpers, we (hopefully) all condemend the actions. Why? Because simply disagreeing with political matters is NOT sufficient excuse to beat or assault ppl. Since Saturday, that principle has been almost completely ignored. On what grounds? You don't like what the Nazis are saying.

For those of us who actually hold principles close to our hearts (and heads), that is a pathetic response to the violence we saw on Saturday. We have laws in place specifically for this type of thing and many on the left want to abandon our most primal principles related to how laws should be respected just for the sake of venting some violent aggression. If someone is being beaten, they have a right to self defense and others around them have a right to step in to protect ppl. But assaulting ppl outright is cowardice and naive.

And no, it wasn't 'principled liberals' who allowed Nazism to take hold in Germany. Nor is anyone suggesting we should assume that cannot happen here. You are simply making shit up now to fill the gap in your argument. See my example about Malcolm X vs MLK from earlier. Ya might learn something.

I have to assume anyone who doubles down on this argument wants us to be weak and defenseless. This is not merely a political disagreement. Genocide is a cornerstone of their ideology. You don't want to see the wheels in motion, I can't get through to you with facts, and I don't want to waste time talking past you, so bye, Junior.
 

androvsky

Member
Tip to anyone clicking this: Delete this from your youtube history before you get hit by all this redpill bs on your front page. You can't watch anything related to this without getting a bunch of trash.

That's odd, I've used that channel to watch John Oliver clips before without any obvious problems. Maybe it's because I've got enough MSNBC in my history to counteract it, or something.
 

I was in Salem, MA on Saturday, an extremely progressive city. We didn't see what happened, but two police cars were leaving a populated area and pulled up next to each other so they could talk to each other through the windows.

One of them was laughing his ass off and we heard him say "how about next time, I bring my fucking gun, and that will show the homeless."

My girlfriend and I were like, holy shit, what just happened and who is this son of a bitch? They left before we could see his plate number or anything and we were pretty upset. This is in a state as blue as Massachusetts in a city and progressive as Salem.

These "bad apples" are everywhere...
 

Yeoman

Member
My point somehow flew right over your head. Re-read the post of mine you replied to please. Digest it before responding.

What I was saying is that the principles the left cherishes are far more fickle than I assumed. An example might help. During the campaign when Trump had goons at rallies beat up anti-Trumpers, we (hopefully) all condemend the actions. Why? Because simply disagreeing with political matters is NOT sufficient excuse to beat or assault ppl. Since Saturday, that principle has been almost completely ignored. On what grounds? You don't like what the Nazis are saying.

For those of us who actually hold principles close to our hearts (and heads), that is a pathetic response to the violence we saw on Saturday. We have laws in place specifically for this type of thing and many on the left want to abandon our most primal principles related to how laws should be respected just for the sake of venting some violent aggression. If someone is being beaten, they have a right to self defense and others around them have a right to step in to protect ppl. But assaulting ppl outright is cowardice and naive.

And no, it wasn't 'principled liberals' who allowed Nazism to take hold in Germany. Nor is anyone suggesting we should assume that cannot happen here. You are simply making shit up now to fill the gap in your argument. See my example about Malcolm X vs MLK from earlier. Ya might learn something.
People like you will lead to the total destruction of civilisation as we know it. Mark my words you lot will end it.

Enough of this tolerate the intolerant shit - these people are advocating genocide you bonehead.
 
I haven't been able to bring myself to watch the BBC or any other domestic news since the UK General Election since they're all crap, but they're usually pretty good at documenting things outside our borders. What are they saying?

How've they been doing it? Haven't followed much UK or US news, Gaf has actually done a great job and keeping me up on this.

Just that there was violence by the alt-right, no "both sides" bullshit and that Trump has been criticized for not condemning those responsible.

Mention is made of the victim who died and the overall tone is, "wtf America? Get your shit together; the world is watching."
 
Like the Zelda reference

On topic: Roughly how long can we expect the court case to take? I'm not that familiar with the American system.

A couple of years. James Holmes was the guy who shot up a theater in Colorado at the batman (TDKR) movie premiere in July 2012. He was arrested shortly thereafter, the trial started April 27, 2015 and he was sentenced in August 2015 (to 12 life sentences). So 2-3 years is the average.

Whats REALLY interesting is that so far he has only been charged with SECOND degree murder, which is murder with malice but not planned/premeditated. First degree murder is considered planned. I wonder what the prosecutors have that make them think he didn't go to the Rally intent on killing someone. The charges can change over time as the detectives go through the evidence.
 
A couple of years. James Holmes was the guy who shot up a theater in Colorado at the batman (TDKR) movie premiere in July 2012. He was arrested shortly thereafter, the trial started April 27, 2015 and he was sentenced in August 2015 (to 12 life sentences). So 2-3 years is the average.

Whats REALLY interesting is that so far he has only been charged with SECOND degree murder, which is murder with malice but not planned/premeditated. First degree murder is considered planned. I wonder what the prosecutors have that make them think he didn't go to the Rally intent on killing someone. The charges can change over time as the detectives go through the evidence.

Thanks. From my understanding of the different degrees, I thought as long as you had a "cooling off" period and still committed the murder it could be called premeditated? For example, if the asshole:
-got angry at the protesters
-walked to his car a couple blocks away
-stopped short of the crowd, spun his tires
-then rammed the crowd

that time could be spent "deciding on his actions" and thus could be called premeditated? Am I wrong about this? Also I suppose it would be hard for prosecution to determine the exact sequence of events.
 
Im really starting to enjoy just how pussy some of you posters are about defending your own personal rights.

Wanna tell everyone else to stop fighting for themselves because you all would piss your pants waiting for cops to arrive if something popped off and you had to defend yourselves.


And before you quote me, this is my opinion and my freedom of speech so how about you defend my opinions you motherfuckers.

Some of y'all are trash.
 

Morrigan Stark

Arrogant Smirk
Tip to anyone clicking this: Delete this from your youtube history before you get hit by all this redpill bs on your front page. You can't watch anything related to this without getting a bunch of trash.
No issues here. Must be something else in your feed/video history. :|
 

D i Z

Member
Im really starting to enjoy just how pussy some of you posters are about defending your own personal rights.

Wanna tell everyone else to stop fighting for themselves because you all would piss your pants waiting for cops to arrive if something popped off and you had to defend yourselves.


And before you quote me, this is my opinion and my freedom of speech so how about you defend my opinions you motherfuckers.

Some of y'all are trash.

You just made my morning.
 
Wishing something bad would happen to them is not the same thing as assaulting them. It saddens me how many folks here and elsewhere are willing to lower their standards to satiate some stupid blood lust. The principles we on the left clung to (rightfully) a week ago are suddenly gone for so many ppl. It's a pathetic way to respond to what happened imho.

The appropriate response should be to enforce hate speech laws to the letter and throw the book at ppl who engage in it. Even if that hate speech is anti-Nazi, btw. Threatening ppl due to their beliefs is not ok just because you really, REALLY hate the people you target and believe they are subhuman.

White supremacy is not a nation with soldiers. It is an idea and you can't eradicate ideas with violence. You have to work to marginalize those ideas within society. Push for tougher hate speech laws and push for their strict enforcement.
This is gross and shows you don't understand what hate speech laws are actually for.
 

TalonJH

Member
Not sure if this story has been posted yet.

Remember this picture:
aptopix-confederate-monumen2.jpg

In the center, there is 26-year-old Marcus Martin. When he saw the car speeding towards them, he pushed his fiancee, Marissa Blair out of the way, saving her. As you can see from the picture, his leg is broken and he's in mid air after being struck.

Here is him and his fiancee at the Heather Heyer memorial wearing memorial shirts.

Here is the Heather Heyer memorial.
Here is a CNN interview with Marissa Blair.
http://www.cnn.com/videos/us/2017/0...from-car-by-fiance-charlottesville-newday.cnn
 
Marcus Martin is a hero. And whoever made those shirts they're wearing is a hero as well. I wish I could shake their hands and give them a hug.
 
It's okay don't be ashamed allow yourself a little hate, I really hate hate haters
Hatred is not so bad when directed at injustice and evil doers
You can turn the other cheek, but don't turn the other way indifference is our biggest threat

Enemy of the planet we finally have a common cause a catalyst
A reason to forget about our differences and stand as a united front it's up to us
To expose and humiliate the Errorists, American Errorists, we'll start with one
I know just the one, the war has just begun

From the Bush administration days, but more relevant now.
 
Not sure if this story has been posted yet.

Remember this picture:


In the center, there is 26-year-old Marcus Martin. When he saw the car speeding towards them, he pushed his fiancee, Marissa Blair out of the way, saving her. As you can see from the picture, his leg is broken and he's in mid air after being struck.

Here is him and his fiancee at the Heather Heyer memorial wearing memorial shirts.


Here is the Heather Heyer memorial.

Here is a CNN interview with Marissa Blair.
http://www.cnn.com/videos/us/2017/0...from-car-by-fiance-charlottesville-newday.cnn

Wow..true hero.
 

Joe

Member
Trolling around reddit the past couple of days and alt-right kids were pretty upset at all the "SJW" (anti-Nazi) rhetoric on the site. Some are angry, some are discouraged, and some are genuinely upset.

I really think establishing the narratives and fact-checking bullshit in reddit post comments could have positive effects. There are not as many of them as you would think, they are not knowledgeable, and they are not used to any substantial push-back at all. They folded like chairs the past couple of days.
 
My point somehow flew right over your head. Re-read the post of mine you replied to please. Digest it before responding.

What I was saying is that the principles the left cherishes are far more fickle than I assumed. An example might help. During the campaign when Trump had goons at rallies beat up anti-Trumpers, we (hopefully) all condemend the actions. Why? Because simply disagreeing with political matters is NOT sufficient excuse to beat or assault ppl. Since Saturday, that principle has been almost completely ignored. On what grounds? You don't like what the Nazis are saying.

For those of us who actually hold principles close to our hearts (and heads), that is a pathetic response to the violence we saw on Saturday. We have laws in place specifically for this type of thing and many on the left want to abandon our most primal principles related to how laws should be respected just for the sake of venting some violent aggression. If someone is being beaten, they have a right to self defense and others around them have a right to step in to protect ppl. But assaulting ppl outright is cowardice and naive.

And no, it wasn't 'principled liberals' who allowed Nazism to take hold in Germany. Nor is anyone suggesting we should assume that cannot happen here. You are simply making shit up now to fill the gap in your argument. See my example about Malcolm X vs MLK from earlier. Ya might learn something.

This approach is what got us to this point. So maybe this approach isn't really a good one? Sure it makes indifferent white folks such as yourself feel safe, and also makes you feel like you've "contributed" and your conscience is clear but really...no one cares about your feelings. MLK really didn't like folks like you either, and that dude is dead so he's not really a great pokemon to summon.
 

Condom

Member
"Line 'em up against a wall" and what...start executing them for standing in the way of the progress that he wants to see take place?

Boy howdy does that sound familiar. Hate is a circle, people. This rant reads like someone damn near finished the trip around.

It's a meme, not something serious. A play on 'communists killed 100 million people!!', a parody on oneself.
 
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