Was Britain blindsided by this vote?
Feels like I heard about Britexit at least one to two weeks before the vote, and I'm American.
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Vox: Bracksies how Brexit could wind up not actually happening
- Thread starter Eric C
- Start date
- Status
Was Britain blindsided by this vote?
Feels like I heard about Britexit at least one to two weeks before the vote, and I'm American.
Royal_Phalanx
Member
I feel like the EU will demand the UK give up some of their vetos to show that they really are now committed to Europe if we go back on the referendum. And I'm scared England would basically revolt and elect a UKIP government if we ignore the referendum based on the new information we have now.
EatinOlives
Member
What people? I think it's fair to say that a lot of Leavers have in the past few days realized for the first time the magnitude of what Leave actually entails. A lot of he arguments have now been completely debunked or backtracked, even sometimes by the very people that pushed them. That's not to say everyone or even a majority of them have changed their minds or would vote differently, but the question remains uncertain and the split was very close to 50/50.
Taking a shot at undoing the potential catastrophe of leaving the EU is worth disillusioning a few voters, IMO. This is far more important than some misplaced notion of "but the people spoke !!!" Nothing about democracy inherently requires that every single issue must be voted on exactly once and never again.
Even the leave campaigners started conceding because they thought for sure they wouldn't win. Now they have. Nobody has a plan. The best person for the job of negotiating has fucked off (good for him, frankly). The EU is doing what anyone sensible thought it would do, not putting up with our shit. I'd say we're blindsided, yeah.
BrainZEROX
Member
It's not a punishing move from Europe to ask for quick action from UK, I think we just want to cut losses for everyone as quickly as possible. It will hurt both UK and EU to make things drag for too long. We heard you, you want out so and we respect your vote. Let's work at it so the both of us do not suffer too much from the outcome of your decision.
The damage has already been done.
A second referendum with Britain voting Remain will not repair the damage to the financial markets. It will make it worse since the biggest thing they fear is uncertainty.
It would not stop the rise of right wing nationalists in other countries. It will make it worse, because it gives them a sense of injustice to rally around.
It will not help the EU's ability to negotiate treaties or set an economic plan. It will make it worse, because they can no longer trust Britain to hold up its end in any bargain, since they will be afraid of another referendum to flip things back again at any time.
It will not help preserve the European Idea. It will make it worse, because there will be a perception that people are being held in the union against their will and against democratic principles.
It would take an overwhelming gesture to restore confidence in Britain's commitment to Europe, and that is not going to happen overnight. If the UK elects a pro-Europe government, UKIP dwindles, they re-embrace immigration and multiculturalism, and in 5 years time they vote 60%+ to rejoin, then they will be welcomed back. But that is what it is going to take. It is going to have to go it alone for a number of years to see if it can get the Euro-skepticism out of its system, before it will be trusted to not repeat this again.
Thank you. I completely agree. I am supposed to be going back home today for a few days and I'm very sad about it. I don't think I'll see the 'harmless' local population in the cafes mooching (a Northern term for window shopping) around town in the same way. Really sad.
I agree, there used to be a 'Polish Club' many years ago for the Polish war veterans that fought for the allies settled there after the war that my British grandad used to go to but I don't think it's around anymore. My mother makes very good mizeria though + plentiful pickled beetroot too.
Stallion Dan
Member
EatinOlives
Member
It's not about reversing damage, it's about mitigating it. This is like putting your hand on the stove and refusing to move it because "eh, the damage is already done. Moving it won't bring my hand back to how it was before". The first step in restoring the confidence is having a second vote and seeing if people were actually serious.
lol
All of what you just posted is delusional. Brexit is objectively a catastrophic clusterfuck
protomouse
Member
A poll posted in the other thread seems to indicate that those who voted leave are happy with their choice.
But where do you draw the line? Do you hold a third vote when the second one inevitably doesn't satisfy one of the sides?
I think we can both agree that the merits of a 50/50 public vote on something this disruptive is questionable. However, the UK people accepted this way of doing things. By voting for one of the two options given, you acknowledge the legitimacy of the procedure (and thus the outcome, good or bad). Those who are currently protesting the referendum itself should have done so in the voting booth.
Stallion Dan
Member
You are ignoring verifiable facts and daring to call it delusional. You see the irony?
The sentiment has always been there. It's that those who now openly express it do so because they're emboldened by the result of the vote.
It happens all the time.
It's how the United States ended Prohibition. We did it by sidestepping most of the process with the special Convention method to pass an amendment to undo it. There were a wide swath of people that thought it would hold permanent forever, and had to take the back route because it would have been stopped via the normal methods. We were also getting mocked on the world stage for passing it in the first place.
Jimbob Smalls
Banned
After over a decade of debating the EU with multiple elections where the quick growth of independence parties was prevalent and a farcical EU renegotiation that lasted for weeks and achieved nothing, no one has blind sided by anything, no.
You tanked your economy, the UK is being dissolved, and you emboldened your racists. Trump, Putin, Viktor Orban, Marie Le Pen, Gert Wilders, Golden Dawn, fucking Sarah Palin, are applauding what you've done. Congratulations, you played yourself.
DontBeThatGuy
Member
Post like this are maddening. It's not a game, and it's far from over.
BlastProcessing
Member
That quote says that Obama changed his stance on the UK going to the back of the queue when no such thing has occurred. It talks about the Pound going back to February levels when it's February decline was directly caused by Brexit fears.
That statement is a combination of willful ignorance, half truths and outright lies. If that's your idea of verifiable facts, well, that's quite telling.
Palette Swap
Member
You could have just posted thisisfine.
- I wouldn't hang my hat on the pound or the FTSE yet.
- this particularly generous and selective reading of Obama's quote has been debunked 100 times already. Of course the US has no interest in pushing away Britain, but they're not going to go out of their way to assuage it. Obama wasn't going to tank his economy and everyone's by saying "to the back".
- Le Touquet : Hollande and his interior minister had to answer this one because this was explicitly asked by several members of their opposition, including the head of the region where Calais is, and the mayor of Calais. It's going to be a legal head scratcher, but every right wing candidate at next year's election will make it an issue or promise to get rid of it. France will need to keep securing the tunnel in Calais anyway, but don't expect the Calais clusterfuck to not have moved across the Channel in a few years. At this point, I don't expect either country to deal intelligently or humanely with immigration.
Alternatively, the issue might become irrelevant if the UK manages to make itself unattractive enough to immigration.
- Juncker also said yesterday this isn't an amicable divorce. Of course this will happen in a timely and orderly fashion. No one wants to make a bigger mess of things.
- The CBI's job is to make sure businesses prosper. Now that the Rubicon is crossed, do you really expect them to not say "we'll pull through, we're resilient"? Anything else would be the equivalent of throwing their hands in the air and saying "that's it, I'm done".
If anything, this list says a lot about whoever wrote it and their understanding of practical concerns. Right now, every partner and actor out there is looking at how they can minimize damage and move forward as this is the hand we've all been dealt. That they're not all saying how catastrophically stupid they find this farce doesn't mean they don't think it is, it just means nothing good would be accomplished at this point by saying it.
You know what's the most telling on that list ? What's missing from it : positive and concrete signals sent by the Leave camp or the British government that show they're not completely out of their depth and are working on not making this too damaging.
- Status
Similar threads
- Locked