SoraanTribal
Member
As someone who has lived in Georgia all his life, the South has nothing to be proud of really.
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Poll: Majority sees Confederate flag as Southern pride symbol, not racist
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Wolfgunblood Garopa
Member
That's for sure, lol. The willful ignorance is staggering.
Vincent Grayson
Member
Sharecropping wasn't tons of fun either
If you're referring to the War of Northern Aggression, it was about an incredibly complicated collection of State's rights issues and I don't believe slavery or racism were even a part of it. It's not like the confederate leaders actually stated racist and pro-slavery reasoning in their own words and handwriting or anything.
gutter_trash
Banned
Majority of Americans need history lessons confirmed
Veritigo_X
Member
Here's that southern pride they're talking about. Totally not racist.
Melkezadek
Member
If people are so adamant on the non association of the Confederate flag with racism, why don't they protest the use of the flag when the KKK marches with it with pride. I always hear the argument of people not knowing the history of the flag but never scold white supremacists groups for making it synonymous with their plight.
Are these groups ignorant of the "true" history of the flag as well? Why not rally against them for mixing their racism up with your Southern heritage? Especially since they claim it has no association.
I would have more respect for their argument (or at least the individual trying to make the argument) if they participated in that fashion.
Are these groups ignorant of the "true" history of the flag as well? Why not rally against them for mixing their racism up with your Southern heritage? Especially since they claim it has no association.
I would have more respect for their argument (or at least the individual trying to make the argument) if they participated in that fashion.
Just for laughs and to illustrate how stupid this is, poll the exact same folks on what the 卐 represents. I would guarantee the same type of ignorance that informs this perspective on "supporting" the "pride of the south" would flip out over this ancient symbol in the context of its most recent historical appropriation. People are ignorant.
Wolfgunblood Garopa
Member
Zen_Arcade
Banned
Losing. Losing and treason.
Majority of black people: "It's racist."
Majority of white people: "We don't think it's racist. Sure, it's a flag of white people who wanted to OWN black people, but we don't think it's racist."
The same arguments, over and over. It's about heritage!... a heritage of owning slaves. It's about state's rights!... the right to own slaves. It's about southern pride!... of fighting to own slaves. It's about rebellion!... against a country trying to stop slavery.
NervousXtian
Thought Emoji Movie was good. Take that as you will.
Hahahaha... gotta love ya Stinkles.
WHere is this sudden hero worship of General Lee coming from? Seen here on Gaf and quite shocked.
djplaeskool
Member
God damnit, America.
Probably inspired by that badass replica that Kenny Wayne Shepherd had commisioned.
Oh wait, that's the General Lee.
GrizzleBoy
Banned
Bro, none of that is related to race. Stop racialising everything.
"Anti-racist is code for anti-white!"
- Every youtube comments section in videos regarding racism
The only reason any change was made to anything in the south at all was because it was initially enforced, and once they stopped enforcing policies racist shenanigans began.
Leatherface
Member
Whatever it means to them is irrelevant. What it ACTUALLY stands for is reason enough to get a new symbol for Southern Pride. Here is a good litmus test to use when having this conversation. Go ask one of your black friends how that flag makes them feel...
LizardKing
Member
If that 57% is hugely skewed demographically to southern whites then as you said that is what the symbol truly means and the problem isn't the southern whites but the views of the others of the flag. If that's how the people who are using the flag actually see it then others should get off their backs and change how they view it themselves. I'm not sure that's really true though.
metalslimer
Member
Before a new flag is made for southern pride the south still has to explain what they are proud of as a collective unit
entremet
Member
Doubt many actually have black friends, as much as a joke that has become lol.
For those asking what exactly has the South to be proud of; what exactly does the North have to be proud of? What exactly has America to be proud of? What exactly has Canada to be proud of? What exactly has the UK to be proud of? What exactly has Europe to be proud of? Pretty much every country has done some vile shit in its history, that doesn't mean that that's the only thing that defines you and that you are forever not able to be proud about anything or anything to celebrate.
Just 25% of whites agree? That... That can't be right can it? My wife and I are both on the conservative end and both see it as a symbol of racism.
Chezzymann
Member
Well barbeque and jazz originated in the south I think
ShemhazaiX
Member
Well, they designed a pretty bitching flag to be fair. That's one thing they can be proud of at least.
It's a damned shame that the Confederate flag has so much racial history attached to it, because whoever designed it pretty much made one of the best looking flags out there. :/
I say this as a non-American and I am not condoning the continued existence / use of the Confederate flag. I just wanted to say it looks cool.
brotherbean
Member
Sure, it is southern pride. It's the celebration of a thankfully long-gone right to buy, sell and own human beings as property using the justification that God's will was white supremacy. It's an awful thing to be prideful of.
I'm from the south, Louisiana born and raised. You know what's a statement of pride for me? Cajun/Creole cooking. Pecan pie. Peach orchards. Cotton fields. Fried catfish. Cornbread. Turnip greens. Mardi Gras. Crawfish boils in the bayou.
That fucking flag is nothing more than a reminder of what the American South used to (and apparently still does in some circles) stand for, and it isn't something to feel good about.
I'm from the south, Louisiana born and raised. You know what's a statement of pride for me? Cajun/Creole cooking. Pecan pie. Peach orchards. Cotton fields. Fried catfish. Cornbread. Turnip greens. Mardi Gras. Crawfish boils in the bayou.
That fucking flag is nothing more than a reminder of what the American South used to (and apparently still does in some circles) stand for, and it isn't something to feel good about.
TheRagnCajun
Member
Just because only a minority of people see a symbol as offensive doesn't mean its ok to keep using it.
Angelus Errare
Banned
article said:
To the shock of no one.
Maybe among white Americans, but I'm pretty sure among african-americans the flag pretty much still means racism and slavery.
Zeus Molecules
illegal immigrants are stealing our air
^this
I know you're joking, but I always find the state's rights handwaving amusingly stupid. Like, finish the thought... the state's right to do what?
Gordon Shumway
Banned
Heh..that's pretty good.
South 2 : North 0.
digita1alchemy
Member
As someone who grew up in Tennessee but never identified as "southern", lots of people there treat the flag almost like a brand, similar to those "Salt Life" stickers I see on the back of everyone's cars. People view it as a symbol of not being a "yankee" and the things that they identify with culturally. Working hard, pickup trucks, drinking beer, raising hell, and all the other cliche southern things. You can (or could) buy just about anything with the flag on it, just about anywhere and it has definitely been commercialized to the point of losing it's original meaning to many people. Of course, you won't find many black people wearing confederate flag t-shirts because not everyone has forgotten. Anyway, I'm not trying to defend anyone, instead I thought I'd offer my first-hand experience that a not insignifigant number of people opposed to removing the flag aren't neccesarily racists, just dumb rednecks who didn't pay attention in History class.
Veritigo_X
Member
They should just put that on a flag.
Zoe
Member
Food, climate, sports, hospitality
Maybe it's easier for me to understand because Texas pride is totally is own thing, but I find it a little weird to not have any pride in your local culture. I'd want to get out of there ASAP.
I think polls like this are a useful reality check. To make change in America, the movement (Black Lives Matter, and others) are going to have to get political. They are going to have to set goals and get strategic. Since Ferguson they have a lot of political "capital" to spend, and I'm worried it's all going to be wasted. What has it achieved so far?
I think the movement was banking on just like "waking people up" to racism and then things would start changing. That's a fantasy, it's clear now that this was magical thinking. Either people will never recognize racism, or people do recognize it and don't care. Cash in on some tangible benefits now or it was all for nothing.
Last thing I'll say: What's also pretty damning, and we've learned recently is that actually the kids (the latest generation) are still pretty racist actually. Turns out we can't just wait for old people to die out.
> Taking the flag down from some government buildings, an important moral victory, well over due, but not something that's really going to improve daily lives.
> Obama no longer giving all the military toys for local PDs, basically a reversion to how it was before the Iraq/Afghanistan war.
> Obama no longer giving all the military toys for local PDs, basically a reversion to how it was before the Iraq/Afghanistan war.
I think the movement was banking on just like "waking people up" to racism and then things would start changing. That's a fantasy, it's clear now that this was magical thinking. Either people will never recognize racism, or people do recognize it and don't care. Cash in on some tangible benefits now or it was all for nothing.
Last thing I'll say: What's also pretty damning, and we've learned recently is that actually the kids (the latest generation) are still pretty racist actually. Turns out we can't just wait for old people to die out.
LizardKing
Member
It's not irrelevant. If the people who are using the flag truly believe it to be a symbol of southern pride and not of racism, it's everyone else who needs to educate themselves on the meaning of the flag. It only became a symbol of racism as the majority believed it was a symbol of racism and the intent of the majority of people who exercised the symbol did so for racist reasons. If that is no longer the case, and the majority believe it's not a symbol of racism, it's the minority who have to change their outdated views.
Saint Gregory
Member
This second point has been screwing the hell out of polling numbers for ages now. I keep wondering when/how these news agencies are going to update their methodology.
metalslimer
Member
Link
The Autumn Wind
BREAKING: Dumb white people don't know history.
Maybe not in the classic sense, but generally, college exposes people to new and different cultures and viewpoints that they previously were closed off from.
Internet polling is catching up, but it's more susceptible to tampering. The phone shit just doesn't cut it anymore though.
You need to educate yourself.
The Confederate Flag as we know it had no significance in the twentieth century until the Klan re-popularized it in the 1950s.
Yeah, it's not racist at all...
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