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Danganronpa Mafia |OT| Grin and Bear It

Sawneeks

Banned
-snip-

The third option kinda makes sense as nothing would change regarding CzarTim's kill and potential attacks on me or Pau, but would be a big disadvantage to Despair.

I'm not seeing your correlation between who I saw on Night 1 and how it pertains to the death on Night 2. Could you explain a bit more?

Also you're leaving out some possibilities:

1. Ninja. Could be anyone and would not be seen if they went and made the kill
2. The killer could be anyone not in the path of Pau/AB/you as no one else walked that path except for SalvaPot and, as he is dead, he couldn't say who he saw that night anyway. Meaning the possible killers are Royal_Flush, Swamped, KingKitty, CornBurrito, Zippedpinhead, Christina, CzarTim, Makai, or Goshujinsama.

Also not sure how this leaves Redacted free from being the possible killer.

Sure thing. I forget shit all the time and often am too lazy to search.

Kalor, ViviOggi, and Zipped hammered 3 votes in quick succession for CzarTim. These 3 votes (and Zips specifically) pushed Czar as the majority, I fully believe that Despair would have wanted to keep Czar alive. Regardless of whether or not Sawneeks is Despair or Hope. Thus I don't think Kalor or Vivi are Despair. And whoever replaced Vivi naturally.

As for Zipped, idk why he doesn't ping my hope sensor, but he doesn't ping my Despair one either. And I don't have enough reasons to think him Despair.

Mind if I ask why? I'm pinging Zipped as Despair because of some of his voting/posting habits, especially Day 3's. Well, that and how most of his posts 'go with the crowd' and are generally reposts of ideas that aren't too radical.
 
I'm not seeing your correlation between who I saw on Night 1 and how it pertains to the death on Night 2. Could you explain a bit more?

Also you're leaving out some possibilities:

1. Ninja. Could be anyone and would not be seen if they went and made the kill
2. The killer could be anyone not in the path of Pau/AB/you as no one else walked that path except for SalvaPot and, as he is dead, he couldn't say who he saw that night anyway. Meaning the possible killers are Royal_Flush, Swamped, KingKitty, CornBurrito, Zippedpinhead, Christina, CzarTim, Makai, or Goshujinsama.

Also not sure how this leaves Redacted free from being the possible killer.
Is there something that actually suggests CzarTim not being the killer? With all this "redacted showed up N2" talk I almost dismissed this possibility.

Hey, how many are needed for a majority today? Just curious considering the four votes on TL21xx.

There are 16 people left, so 9 I guess?
 

Ty4on

Member
I'm not seeing your correlation between who I saw on Night 1 and how it pertains to the death on Night 2. Could you explain a bit more?

Also you're leaving out some possibilities:

1. Ninja. Could be anyone and would not be seen if they went and made the kill
2. The killer could be anyone not in the path of Pau/AB/you as no one else walked that path except for SalvaPot and, as he is dead, he couldn't say who he saw that night anyway. Meaning the possible killers are Royal_Flush, Swamped, KingKitty, CornBurrito, Zippedpinhead, Christina, CzarTim, Makai, or Goshujinsama.

Also not sure how this leaves Redacted free from being the possible killer.

Redacted didn't move N1 so that means it isn't a normal power role. Redacted killing SalvaPot N2 would make sense for a Despair without a night role which was then used N3 and N4 to attempt to kill Pau (we (inclusive) believe). The question then is what the hell were they doing N2?

Another possibility I forgot is that they could be Despair, but someone else were the killer N2 and Redacted just used their (presumably one shot) ability N2. They could also be hope with limited actions.
 
I see no evidence against CzarTim as the killer N2.

Wait did I miss something? I thought nobody saw Czar N2.

And if he did venture out to do the N2 killing then he never would have false claimed ONE-shot cop, when he could have claimed just general Cop.
 

Pau

Member
Wait did I miss something? I thought nobody saw Czar N2.

And if he did venture out to do the N2 killing then he never would have false claimed ONE-shot cop, when he could have claimed just general Cop.
He was one room away from SalvaPot so he could have easily not been seen. I don't think anyone went pass his room anyways to confirm that he didn't actually move.

Unless someone's lying and Despair too, of course. :p
 

Sawneeks

Banned
Read one line above the line you bolded in the post you quoted.

Duh, this is what I get for reading fast. My bad! I'm still trying to figure out why you think they wanted to keep him alive as he had been trying to talk others into killing him for most of Day 3. Even if they did want him alive I could see a Despair member voting for him just so they all weren't on one side.

Is there something that actually suggests CzarTim not being the killer? With all this "redacted showed up N2" talk I almost dismissed this possibility.

There isn't evidence either way and this is the main problem. No one we know of except for SalvaPot moved on the left half of the map that Night. Meaning we have no idea who was in that area at all and it's a big old question mark.

Redacted didn't move N1 so that means it isn't a normal power role. Redacted killing SalvaPot N2 would make sense for a Despair without a night role which was then used N3 and N4 to attempt to kill Pau (we (inclusive) believe). The question then is what the hell were they doing N2?

Another possibility I forgot is that they could be Despair, but someone else were the killer N2 and Redacted just used their (presumably one shot) ability N2. They could also be hope with limited actions.

It's honestly not looking good for redacted right now to be perfectly honest. The lack of a Night 1 move is what is bothering me the most because what PR keeps you from moving the first Night but acting on all the others? This is assuming my redacted and Pau's redacted are one and the same though.
 

*Splinter

Member
which was then used N3 and N4 to attempt to kill Pau (we (inclusive) believe).
This is the one part of all your arguments that smells fishy to me. I thought your double role claim was a terrible play. If you are just lovers (as you have been allowing us to believe) then why would Despair target you over the unknown PRs? Pau went from being a mystery PR that apparently has the ability to lead Despair on a wild goose chase, to a harmless commuter with a fairly predictable (and shortish) route. Basically you moved yourselves down Despair's priority list despite neither of you being in any significant daytime danger at the time.

And now you're pushing this idea that Despair are targeting you over the other PRs and I want to know which one of you this idea came from, because I'm sincerely starting to believe the Evil Lover theory

If I'm wrong, you two panicked and fucked up hard.
 
I see no evidence against CzarTim as the killer N2.

And he'd know no one saw him. Paraphrasing Launch:
If X sees Y, Y would also have seen X unless otherwise stated in the role PM.

I agree based on all the discussion today, czar getting a "you were seen by nobody" pm of fight club would be the perfect hiding place. He didn't reveal his "one off" role until after night 2, so it was the perfect cover, we just hammered into him because of all the back and forth foolery and crab. This caused his reveal and inevitable death.

Makes me wonder why he picked crab, did he pick crab based on a despair seeing him night one, or did he pick crab because of what was going on in thread.

As far as I can tell, crab would have been seen by redacted on at least night 2, assuming who I think is pau's redacted is correct. There is always the possibility that there are two people we are discussing as redacted, and one of them just moves left but I'll discount that for now.

I still think it's possible that crab went up to top left on night 2 (walking past czAr on the way to salvapot,) but if that had happened I think crab would have hammered czar on fight club day 3 even more than what happened. My money is he stayed on the bottom left of the map each night. Thus the only people who could have seen him were czartim (if he went that far), redacted and sawneeks. Sawneeks did see crab night one but didn't see a redacted person so This leaves night two.

Night two, if czar killed salvapot, and no one else saw him that means that there are no rule breakers (yet) that walked left on the top aisle to as far as the pool and the workshop. However,if crab stayed on the lower level and didn't pass czartim while going left. He only could have seen redacted and salvapot (who czar was already marking for death).

Couple with that, by my estimate, if redacted is a known despair to czar (someone czar would have no reason to think would tell the truth on his "1-time move") he could only have come from the left side of the map. If redacted is NOT despair, then that limits his location significantly, Either way it means that he didn't start moving until night 2.

Why didn't redacted move until night 2? It's the most damning reasoning I have for him, why didn't you act night 1? Sawneeks would have seen you if you did, but you didn't.

Everything here points that once czartim was busted they didn't use him to kill night 3, and instead redacted tried to do it and failed, he may have failed both nights, he traveled to the same area looking for Pau and Ty4on (assuming). Many people went by him without a word, because they went by him on night 2 and death happened on the other side of the map.
 
Duh, this is what I get for reading fast. My bad! I'm still trying to figure out why you think they wanted to keep him alive as he had been trying to talk others into killing him for most of Day 3. Even if they did want him alive I could see a Despair member voting for him just so they all weren't on one side.

I think the whole "vote for me I'm fine with dying" was actually a gambit to get us to not vote for him. Crab pulled the same thing on D2 and it worked. I remember it because at the time I said "omfg that's an obvious ploy so we won't vote for Crab and its going to fucking work" or something like that.

As for why they'd want Czar alive. Well Czar's ability is extremely powerful. If I were Despair I'd keep that ability in play as long as humanly possible. It also allowed Czar to play such a bold and risky game in the first place. Even when his gambit failed, he still got Crab. But how much better would it have been had he gotten us to all vote out a Hope player, and then use the ability a day after. Assuming he was up vote the next day.

The only reason I could see Despair not wanting to keep Czartim is if Sawneeks is also Despair and has a more valuable role.
 
This is the one part of all your arguments that smells fishy to me. I thought your double role claim was a terrible play. If you are just lovers (as you have been allowing us to believe) then why would Despair target you over the unknown PRs? Pau went from being a mystery PR that apparently has the ability to lead Despair on a wild goose chase, to a harmless commuter with a fairly predictable (and shortish) route. Basically you moved yourselves down Despair's priority list despite neither of you being in any significant daytime danger at the time.

And now you're pushing this idea that Despair are targeting you over the other PRs and I want to know which one of you this idea came from, because I'm sincerely starting to believe the Evil Lover theory

If I'm wrong, you two panicked and fucked up hard.

Actually I too kind of thought Lovers would be an obvious N3 pick for Despair, since in most games when one dies the other dies too. 2 for one is hard to pass up. Then they missed and sunken cost/gambler fallacy made Despair try again on N4. That was my independent thinking.

I actually thought that Pau/Typhon swapped rooms each night. So N3 they might both have fallen asleep in Ty's room. N4 in Pau's. I was so certain we'd lose 2 people on N4 because of that.
 
I think the whole "vote for me I'm fine with dying" was actually a gambit to get us to not vote for him. Crab pulled the same thing on D2 and it worked. I remember it because at the time I said "omfg that's an obvious ploy so we won't vote for Crab and its going to fucking work" or something like that.

As for why they'd want Czar alive. Well Czar's ability is extremely powerful. If I were Despair I'd keep that ability in play as long as humanly possible. It also allowed Czar to play such a bold and risky game in the first place. Even when his gambit failed, he still got Crab. But how much better would it have been had he gotten us to all vote out a Hope player, and then use the ability a day after. Assuming he was up vote the next day.

The only reason I could see Despair not wanting to keep Czartim is if Sawneeks is also Despair and has a more valuable role.

Cornburrito,

Sawneeks is the only other possible current rule breaker That could have killed salvapot, I don't think she would have revealed That if she was despair. My money is on redacted, He is playinG a dangerous game by remaining hidden.
 

*Splinter

Member
Actually I too kind of thought Lovers would be an obvious N3 pick for Despair, since in most games when one dies the other dies too. 2 for one is hard to pass up. Then they missed and sunken cost/gambler fallacy made Despair try again on N4. That was my independent thinking.

I actually thought that Pau/Typhon swapped rooms each night. So N3 they might both have fallen asleep in Ty's room. N4 in Pau's. I was so certain we'd lose 2 people on N4 because of that.
If it's a 2 for 1 today, it's still a 2 for 1 later in the game when more threatening PRs have been removed
 

*Splinter

Member
Cornburrito,

Sawneeks is the only other possible current rule breaker That could have killed salvapot, I don't think she would have revealed That if she was despair. My money is on redacted, He is playinG a dangerous game by remaining hidden.
Don't respond to this, but I'm going to look over the available info one last time, and if I still can't narrow down who Redacted is I'm 4774258% sure you're Despair and I'm voting for you.
 
Cornburrito,

Sawneeks is the only other possible current rule breaker That could have killed salvapot, I don't think she would have revealed That if she was despair. My money is on redacted, He is playinG a dangerous game by remaining hidden.

Actually redacted has no reason to reveal themselves since we can't vote them without without knowing their name.

Pau/Sawneeks/AB seem committed to not giving out the name, and I think they want us to target a non-rule breaker for the punishment D5. Even if some of them are Despair, I doubt all 3 (4 if including Ty) are Despair. So they reached that conclusion independently.
 

Sawneeks

Banned
I agree based on all the discussion today, czar getting a "you were seen by nobody" pm of fight club would be the perfect hiding place. He didn't reveal his "one off" role until after night 2, so it was the perfect cover, we just hammered into him because of all the back and forth foolery and crab. This caused his reveal and inevitable death.
.

Interesting theory altogether but this line here is not correct. CzarTim revealed his role because he believed it would help out those who didn't understand Fight Club and so we wouldn't 'waste a day' going after AB who he claimed was Hope. It was voluntary, we didn't force it out of him at all.

I think the whole "vote for me I'm fine with dying" was actually a gambit to get us to not vote for him. Crab pulled the same thing on D2 and it worked. I remember it because at the time I said "omfg that's an obvious ploy so we won't vote for Crab and its going to fucking work" or something like that.

As for why they'd want Czar alive. Well Czar's ability is extremely powerful. If I were Despair I'd keep that ability in play as long as humanly possible. It also allowed Czar to play such a bold and risky game in the first place. Even when his gambit failed, he still got Crab. But how much better would it have been had he gotten us to all vote out a Hope player, and then use the ability a day after. Assuming he was up vote the next day.

The only reason I could see Despair not wanting to keep Czartim is if Sawneeks is also Despair and has a more valuable role.

Possibly?? I don't think Despair is dumb enough ( or ballsy enough? ) to try that trick for the 3rd time and expect it to work. I believe it was on purpose because why else do a false role claim at the start of the Day? If they didn't want Tim to die he could have just kept quiet.

"Even when his gambit failed" what are you referring to? What gambit? I'm under the assumption you don't believe Tim wanted to die which would mean his whole plan of 'vote me off so I can lynch someone' isn't something you follow. So what was he trying to accomplish if not his own lynching?

CzarTim voted for me at the end of Day 3 fyi. If he wanted to save me he wouldn't have tried to get me killed.
 

Sawneeks

Banned
Don't respond to this, but I'm going to look over the available info one last time, and if I still can't narrow down who Redacted is I'm 4774258% sure you're Despair and I'm voting for you.

I'm happy to see I'm not alone on my thoughts for Zipped. Mind if I ask why though? Almost everyone else seems to not think Zipped as Despair.
 

Swamped

Banned
I'm happy to see I'm not alone on my thoughts for Zipped. Mind if I ask why though? Almost everyone else seems to not think Zipped as Despair.

Zipped has been one of my suspicious people for a while now. I'm at an airport so i can't comment much, but i could get behind a Zipped vote. I kinda let him slide after CzarTim's thing though.
 
I'm happy to see I'm not alone on my thoughts for Zipped. Mind if I ask why though? Almost everyone else seems to not think Zipped as Despair.

Y'know.... I'll actually join in on a Zipped vote. The whole reason I trust Vivi/Royal/Kalor is because they hammered in last minute votes against Czar and sealed his fate. And I believe that Despair wanted to keep Czar alive. Zipped was the final nail in the coffin for Czar, as the 10th vote against him that Day. If Zipped flips Despair, I'll no longer have reason to trust Kalor or Vivi/Royal.
 

*Splinter

Member
I'm happy to see I'm not alone on my thoughts for Zipped. Mind if I ask why though? Almost everyone else seems to not think Zipped as Despair.
In general, he's all over the mechanic/fight club discussions, and he's either consistently picking up on things that I'm missing or he has more information than I do.

Conversely, he's fucking nowhere to be seen when it comes to more traditional scum hunting, his only real push on anyone all game was on me D4 and that was following Corn's lead (and right after I was pushing him in D3). His only good point on me was CzarTim's needless D1 defence on me, and that's the kind of thing that Tim could easily have highlighted to his teammates when he did it (ie. I just defended x for no reason, be sure to point that out if I'm ever lynched).

His votes are unexplained, his opinions are repeats, he lies, he cheats, he steals, he's Despair.

VOTE: ZippedPinhead
 
Cornburrito,

Sawneeks is the only other possible current rule breaker That could have killed salvapot, I don't think she would have revealed That if she was despair. My money is on redacted, He is playinG a dangerous game by remaining hidden.

This is a bug assumption, due to her claim that she only moved nights 1&&2 and only works if he only people that saw Sawneeks were redacted crab and czartim. Incredibly unlikely, but only viable if redacted is despair, but that's an assumption for day 6.

*splinter, it can't be anyone on top aisle fur to how absolutbro has moved and when he saw redacted, That leaves four people on the bottom aisle ( due to his movements on night 2&4 and Sawneeks not seeing them night 1 (assuming not despair) that's it's NOT the person opposite her. Then it comes down to where did Sawneeks go? My guess leaves at most three people ( because I'm discounting replacement players). After that it's a guess see on typical mafia play.

That leaves one of two people on the row with the empty room
 

Pau

Member
This is the one part of all your arguments that smells fishy to me. I thought your double role claim was a terrible play. If you are just lovers (as you have been allowing us to believe) then why would Despair target you over the unknown PRs? Pau went from being a mystery PR that apparently has the ability to lead Despair on a wild goose chase, to a harmless commuter with a fairly predictable (and shortish) route. Basically you moved yourselves down Despair's priority list despite neither of you being in any significant daytime danger at the time.

And now you're pushing this idea that Despair are targeting you over the other PRs and I want to know which one of you this idea came from, because I'm sincerely starting to believe the Evil Lover theory

If I'm wrong, you two panicked and fucked up hard.
But, I was in significant daytime danger or nighttime danger. With CzarTim and AB outing me, either:

1) CzarTim and AB weren't Despair, and now Despair knew I was a PR and would target me because I can see night time activity.
2) CzarTim or AB were lying and I was the most likely killer of the three. Doesn't help that people were already suspicious of me. I don't think there was any way to get Hope to trust me after that. The question would always be up in the air. The way it is for Sawneeks, AB, and *Redacted*.

I don't think we fucked up hard, because if our reveal means Despair hasn't had kills two nights in a row, that's great for Hope.

We're not 100% certain that Despair targeted either of us, but given the information we do have, it makes the most sense. (There could be a roleblocker, I'm not ruling that out, but I don't want to assume there is.) I'm pushing the idea, so if you want to think I'm a Despair Lover/Mason, then okay, waste your daytime lynch on me.

Our biggest strength given the way our night time actvity works is being able to lead Despair on a wild goose chase. If you really believe we can't and just want us to tell Hope exactly what we do (and take everything we say at face value as if we're terrible players) at this point by still hammering us about it, then you just start looking suspicious as if you're Despair trying to figure out why your kills aren't happening.
 

*Splinter

Member
I'm going to bed, Christina if you still haven't answered me when I wake up you can expect my vote on D6 (or whenever I'm finished with Zipped and Ty and any other chucklefucks who want to put forward half-assed theories as confirmed.
 

Pau

Member
I'm going to bed, Christina if you still haven't answered me when I wake up you can expect my vote on D6 (or whenever I'm finished with Zipped and Ty and any other chucklefucks who want to put forward half-assed theories as confirmed.
Pretty sure Ty4on never said anything was confirmed, but okay.

Hope asks us a shit ton of questions, wants almost every bit of information from us (not everyone wanting the same info) and other people get made when we give it.

We don't know everything, but we're trying to help. Calling us chucklefucks is uncalled for.
 

Rest

All these years later I still chuckle at what a fucking moron that guy is.
In general, he's all over the mechanic/fight club discussions, and he's either consistently picking up on things that I'm missing or he has more information than I do.

Conversely, he's fucking nowhere to be seen when it comes to more traditional scum hunting, his only real push on anyone all game was on me D4 and that was following Corn's lead (and right after I was pushing him in D3). His only good point on me was CzarTim's needless D1 defence on me, and that's the kind of thing that Tim could easily have highlighted to his teammates when he did it (ie. I just defended x for no reason, be sure to point that out if I'm ever lynched).

His votes are unexplained, his opinions are repeats, he lies, he cheats, he steals, he's Despair.

VOTE: ZippedPinhead

I don't have a strong read on anybody at this point, but I don't feel like ZippedPinhead has contributed an especially great amount to Hope. I feel like he's expendable at this point. Even though I'm not satisfied with Sawneeks' defense, but the heat on her seems to be dying down. I don't need to waste energy or a vote on someone that no one else will vote for.

VOTE: ZippedPinhead

This is a pure bandwagon vote. I still don't feel like we have much information, so we have to start somewhere.
 
I'm going to bed, Christina if you still haven't answered me when I wake up you can expect my vote on D6 (or whenever I'm finished with Zipped and Ty and any other chucklefucks who want to put forward half-assed theories as confirmed.

darryl, stop hacking other people's accounts!

I'm not a big fan of that Zippedpinhead thing. He still is somewhere in the middle of my list.
 

Sawneeks

Banned
He's still not my number one choice though

Whenever you get a chance would you be able to say who? And why? o:

Y'know.... I'll actually join in on a Zipped vote. The whole reason I trust Vivi/Royal/Kalor is because they hammered in last minute votes against Czar and sealed his fate. And I believe that Despair wanted to keep Czar alive. Zipped was the final nail in the coffin for Czar, as the 10th vote against him that Day. If Zipped flips Despair, I'll no longer have reason to trust Kalor or Vivi/Royal.

Still would like an answer as to what you mean by 'Czar's failed gambit'.

SURPRISE I'M BACK

aZTVZb7.gif
 

Sawneeks

Banned
I don't have a strong read on anybody at this point, but I don't feel like ZippedPinhead has contributed an especially great amount to Hope. I feel like he's expendable at this point. Even though I'm not satisfied with Sawneeks' defense, but the heat on her seems to be dying down. I don't need to waste energy or a vote on someone that no one else will vote for.

VOTE: ZippedPinhead

This is a pure bandwagon vote. I still don't feel like we have much information, so we have to start somewhere.

How so? Zipped has posted more than a few other players so far and while his theories are strange, it's more than others can boast.

If you're simply putting this on 'expend-ability' than TL21xx should be up there on your list. Low post count, not much contribution, could be Despair or a quiet Hope. For all intents and purposes, he is 'expendable'. So why Zipped over him?
 

*Splinter

Member
Pau I think you've partially misunderstood me, you're point 1 should have been what you were aiming for, if my understanding is correct. Instead you acted to avoid it, and now you're acting like Despair would have targeted you despite this without giving a good reason why.

For the record, I think Ty is more likely to be the evil one, hard to be sure though without knowing who has been leading on certain ideas.

And you had some minor daytime heat, not "significant danger". Crab survived a duel and more without ever even hinting at his role. If you though you needed to role claim then to avoid being voted out, you were panicking.



Zipped, I specifically said not to respond to that, if you're Hope you might be giving Despair ideas, if you're Despair you're probably misleading Hope. That's lose-lose for us
 
Still would like an answer as to what you mean by 'Czar's failed gambit'.

The whole not getting voted out by playing the "oh vote for me, it will help Hope" card.

Except he ended up getting voted out. It was a close vote though. We have Kalor/Vivi(Royal)/Zipped to thank for you being alive.
 
*splinter, Being called a chucklefuck was uncalled for. This is a friendly game, and while the dramatic license when you are making accusations is appreciated and in the spirit of things, that really wasn't nice.

Personally, I hate how widespread the fight club mechanic is, and it makes me feel like I'm only playing half of this game. With this many people having access to it (and potentially more people having access to it with however despair moves) it's very disheartening.

Can't help that, it's just the game we were dealt. I think redacted is terrabyte, rest, or Goshujinsama. This assumes that Sawneeks only moved slightly to the left night one and didn't see them move to the left. If redacted really didn't move night 1 then it opens up to include TL. Combine this with traditional scum hunting (which you love so much) means that the most sketchy and least posting on these would be more suspect. This leaves rest (who loved jumping on my bandwagon) and terrabyte (who is playing a completely different game than last time which sets off my scum radar). Of these two if'm more likely to vote terrabyte than rest (even though he has bandwagoned me) but they both set off my scum radar. This is mostly based on the fact that czartim voted and kept his vote on rest day1.

vote:terrabyte20xx
 

Sawneeks

Banned
The whole not getting voted out by playing the "oh vote for me, it will help Hope" card.

Except he ended up getting voted out. It was a close vote though. We have Kalor/Vivi(Royal)/Zipped to thank for you being alive.

Then what do you interpret his role claim and Fight Club reveal to be then? If he really wanted to stay alive he really could have just kept quiet.

Also that is odd because I suspect 2 out of the 3 on that list to be Despair. I'm thankful I'm still here so I can keep playing but it's weird.
 
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